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Crashdance22
04-25-2009, 02:05 PM
I happened to notice the USSR symbol at the top of the prize bubble photo thing at the beginning of the level. Surely this could be offensive to someone. Why would MM put that there? Also notice it's not available as a sticker in your Popit. Has anyone else noticed this before?

RockSauron
04-25-2009, 02:12 PM
DANG COMMIES! Tryin' to put der stickers in videogames to distroy America.

Killian
04-25-2009, 02:20 PM
There are a lot of stickers like this in the story levels. The only way to use them is to use the sticker removal tool and save them onto a costume.

I doubt it would be offensive to anyone. That symbol is used in many computer games.

dawesbr
04-25-2009, 02:23 PM
Well, considering the whole Muslim music fiasco...

Crashdance22
04-25-2009, 02:26 PM
Well, considering the whole Muslim music fiasco...
I was also thinking about that and getting the impression that MM is getting a bit careless.

ARD
04-25-2009, 02:38 PM
Never noticed that before. I'll have a look at it later.

Coxy224
04-25-2009, 03:45 PM
Yeah, I first realised this when Jaeyden gave it away as a stick in Tye Dye! but never really thought about it too much. I don't care really and I guess Mm thought the same.
But still, the muslim music and now this.......

dawesbr
04-25-2009, 03:47 PM
Maybe we should delete this topic, and forget all about it, to prevent a world-wide recall, hm?

Vanemiera
04-25-2009, 03:57 PM
They forgot to put a swastika there -.-

Okay the swastika is a little ... yeah you get the point. But why should anybody be offensed by the hammer and sickle? Some old capitalistic american patriots playing LBP?

But the muslimes tend to be easily offended. Look at "300" the movie. It's just a movie that wants too entertain and was put the way that amerika tries to take over the world(no not the greeks?!?).

Wonko the Sane
04-25-2009, 04:53 PM
I see the point, but there is a world of difference between religious symbols (in general... if you kill a holy cow, expect a swift death) which are touchy by nature - and that's not necessarily a bad thing - and all the rest. And swastika's, well in a way that's a religious symbol to almost any faith, seeing as nazism is considered the embodiment of evil like nothing else ever was (not even communists though they probably killed almost as many innocents).

Zilabus
04-25-2009, 08:08 PM
(As a side note, the swastika is, and was a symbol that meant GOOD THINGS. No, I'm not neo-nazi. But learn your facts people. It's supposed to mean good fortune and health, so don't immediatly associate it with bad. You'll see it in many older medical buildings)

But, on to the hammer and sickle. While it is a repersentation of a gov. passed, and a symbol for soviet/communist giverment worldwide. As thus, I think one could almost interpret it to mean, communism = bad. Or. Russia = Bad. Seeing as how you see the main antagonist here. but, because your getting your equipment there, you could see it as a positive message. You are a GOOD soviet soldier getting the badguys.

If you really wanted to get a deep interpretation, one could say the collecter is like the soviet union as a whole. At first, he fights against the king ang queen, and mags (European nations, the US.) But later he joins up with them.

Vanemiera
04-25-2009, 08:27 PM
(As a side note, the swastika is, and was a symbol that meant GOOD THINGS. No, I'm not neo-nazi. But learn your facts people. It's supposed to mean good fortune and health, so don't immediatly associate it with bad. You'll see it in many older medical buildings)

I never heard that the swastika has anything to do with something good. The only thing we germans got in mind when we hear the expression "Hakenkreuz"(german word for swastika) is "bad and better forgoten past". And i never saw the swastika in a hospital or something but that could be cuz this sign is forbidden here(what leads to ridicolous censoring in Wolfenstein).

Perhaps you are right but i really never heard of something like that.

Wonko the Sane
04-25-2009, 08:27 PM
(As a side note, the swastika is, and was a symbol that meant GOOD THINGS. No, I'm not neo-nazi. But learn your facts people. It's supposed to mean good fortune and health, so don't immediatly associate it with bad. You'll see it in many older medical buildings)


Facts don't figure in this Zilabus. It's true Hitler took the swastika from hindoism or something like that where it meant good things. But the fact that Hitler used it, just tainted it, just like the (imaginary) fact that X killed your mother with a knife would taint the knife and make you resent it's presence, though it's 'in fact' still just a knife. Or to give a happier example: if you ever really love a person, he or she might really, and I mean really really become beautiful in you eyes, through he or she looks in fact dead-ugly in any sensible persons eyes.

Zilabus
04-25-2009, 08:37 PM
I'm just saying that when one see's the characteristic swastika symbol, you may want to take a second to think if it means something other then creating a master race, and exterminating endless numbers of people. For instance, at my local state college, the medical building has large swatikas over the top of it's doors.. I'm not saying it's a good idea to just throw a swatika out there, and think people won't associate it with nazi-ism. I'm also not saying that it should only a good symbol. I'm saying when you see it, you shouldn't immediatly think 'bad'.

(Going with you knife example. Yes, perhaps that specific knife will forever be bad to you.
But not everything with a blade should be, yes?)

Vanemiera
04-25-2009, 09:01 PM
Yeah you are right in a way. As i red through wonko's post i remembered that someone once at school painted a swastika. He wanted to draw the buddhistic sign for i think peace but got it wrong so it was a nazi swastica. He got so humiliated for this...

As i said that the swastica is actually forbidden here i think i can tell you a weird story. Anyone knows the Antifa(Antifascists)?
They however have a sticker that looks like this:
http://www.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://punk.de/catalog/images/aufkleber_halte_deine_umwel.jpg&usg=AFQjCNGec2QJfyyA-ZIY1ZnToMvHw0VXYQ
This means translated "keep your environment clear" and is taken from a logo which is on the package of some bubblegums and shall remind you to dispose the package properly.

As you can see it is AGAINSt nazis but one shop owner who sells this got taken to court for this. xD

Wonko the Sane
04-25-2009, 09:06 PM
Going with you knife example. Yes, perhaps that specific knife will forever be bad to you.
But not everything with a blade should be, yes? Spoken like a real rhetor! But the symbolic meaning of something is not always restricted to a particular object. It doesn't matter which particular national flag you choose to burn (it might even be one you have drawn yourself), it will always be a personal insult to the citizens of the country of which you burnt a flag. But regarding the problem with swastika's, the example of thinking your partner beautiful contrary to the naced facts is perhaps more apt because your perception of your partners looks derives from a sensitivity or interest (your love for him or her) that only you have. So, making the world consistent with your sensitivity requires that other people who don't share your sensitivity, still account for it. That's why you're not expected to tell the lover 'the naked facts'. He doesn't see it this way anyhow and only will be offended if you tell him his girlfriend is ugly. The same applies to swastika's. Some people have a justified sensitivity for it because of their roots that not all of us share, so it can be hard for us to see the need to take account of that sensitivity and reject what Hitler made of the swastika with the same force people who do have that sensitivity reject what Hitler made of it. I guess if you dissagree on this, it's because you're too far removed from the history of nazism, and so it's natural you care more for your own sensitivity which sees swastika's in the former good light, or in no particular light at all. What country are you from by the way?

Foofles
04-25-2009, 10:23 PM
Come to think of it I actually first noticed this in my first run through the game and couldn't wait to get it as a sticker, then totally forgot. :) lol

You gotta understand something about the muslim music, folks... MM, and SCEA for that matter, are UK based and the UK has very strict "hate crime" legislation regarding Islam. Although I'm sure a couple people might've found it offensive, the recall incurred far less losses than the fines they'd suffer from the government.

The swastika and everything even remotely referencing nazis is outlawed in Germany, as stated, but the same does not apply to Russia and the hammer and sickle. In fact, there is still a regular gathering for believers in communism and the soviet regime, although they have no political power it is more of to honor their traditions.

In short, this symbol really wouldn't offend anyone except McCarthy-ites, and guess what, they're American. In USA we have the freedom of speech guaranteed by our bill of rights so as long as it's not deemed too obscene for children by the ESRB and MM could make their target E rating, then it's just fine. I'm sure there are other reasons for it not being available for the popit, for example production time limits. Same reason "Require all" sensor switches weren't at release, etc.

CreateNPlay
04-25-2009, 10:24 PM
Hehe thats funny.

Surely mm wouldn't do this.. it's justa bit too over the top.

tjb0607
04-25-2009, 11:03 PM
Wow... It's also in the LittleBigWorkshop sticker room (http://www.littlebigworkshop.com/en-us/StickerRoom)!!!
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1922/ussr.png

ARD
04-26-2009, 01:18 PM
Wow, it's in the sticker room?
Wait, people use the sticker room?

Zilabus
04-26-2009, 01:51 PM
I guess if you dissagree on this, it's because you're too far removed from the history of nazism, and so it's natural you care more for your own sensitivity which sees swastika's in the former good light, or in no particular light at all. What country are you from by the way?

Yes, I suppose I have no direct connection to Nazism, and because of this I cannot say I have much sensitivity to the subject. Oh, and I'm actually from Russia, although now I live in the US.


Surely mm wouldn't do this.. it's justa bit too over the top.

Do what now?

Chin Fish
04-26-2009, 02:13 PM
I just put this on my sackboy and took it to create mode. I'm gonna try to start using it a lot in my levels for fun. (:

Walter-Kovacs
04-26-2009, 03:50 PM
(As a side note, the swastika is, and was a symbol that meant GOOD THINGS. No, I'm not neo-nazi. But learn your facts people. It's supposed to mean good fortune and health, so don't immediatly associate it with bad. You'll see it in many older medical buildings)

True, it has a meaning related to eternity in Hinduism and Buddhism(I think). I have been traveling in south Asia a lot this semester and it is a very common symbol in temples and shrines.

Foofles
04-26-2009, 06:52 PM
True, it has a meaning related to eternity in Hinduism and Buddhism(I think). I have been traveling in south Asia a lot this semester and it is a very common symbol in temples and shrines.

Yes, the Nazis used it as a symbol of nationalism rather than anything particularly evil. In fact it's use was fairly commonplace throughout the westernized world prior to WW2. It's been since stigmatized heavily, it has no inherently fascistic properties.

Tyler
04-26-2009, 08:36 PM
This just makes me love Media Molecule even more.

If this makes someone angry then I swear I'll have to punch some faces in.

Wonko the Sane
04-26-2009, 08:57 PM
Yes, the Nazis used it as a symbol of nationalism rather than anything particularly evil. In fact it's use was fairly commonplace throughout the westernized world prior to WW2. It's been since stigmatized heavily, it has no inherently fascistic properties.

Lol foofles. The whole thing about symbols or what they symbolize is that they never have anything inherently special about them at all. They 'embody' stuff through associations. On their own, swastika's are just sticks, whether they are used by nazi's or buddhists.

Foofles
04-26-2009, 09:48 PM
Lol foofles. The whole thing about symbols or what they symbolize is that they never have anything inherently special about them at all. They 'embody' stuff through associations. On their own, swastika's are just sticks, whether they are used by nazi's or buddhists.

I'm just saying that even the nazis didn't use it to represent anything fascistic. But yeah, symbols and words are just what we make of them.

Wonko the Sane
04-26-2009, 10:10 PM
I'm just saying that even the nazis didn't use it to represent anything fascistic. But yeah, symbols and words are just what we make of them.

... You could choose to represent your girlfriend with a picture of another woman you stick in you wallet, and not mean anything particularly unfaithful by doing that. But if she finds the picture, she will still think you're cheating on her no matter what you say you meant to do with the picture. It may have a lot to do with human history, but in the end nobody chooses what a symbol means. The fact that the Nazi's didn't choose to represent anything particularly fachistic with it (though I think they did, as it represented their ideology, was on those arm bands that represented their being part of the movement, ect ect...), it still doesn't change what history made of that symbol, and if you use it you will be associated with the ideas associated to it, whether that's what you mean or not.

By the way, I'm only going on and on about this because i'm very interested in the way symbols work. It's a topic closely related to my dissertation. I can't help commenting on this stuff.

Foofles
04-26-2009, 10:32 PM
... You could choose to represent your girlfriend with a picture of another woman you stick in you wallet, and not mean anything particularly unfaithful by doing that. But if she finds the picture, she will still think you're cheating on her no matter what you say you meant to do with the picture. It may have a lot to do with human history, but in the end nobody chooses what a symbol means. The fact that the Nazi's didn't choose to represent anything particularly fachistic with it (though I think they did, as it represented their ideology, was on those arm bands that represented their being part of the movement, ect ect...), it still doesn't change what history made of that symbol, and if you use it you will be associated with the ideas associated to it, whether that's what you mean or not.

By the way, I'm only going on and on about this because i'm very interested in the way symbols work. It's a topic closely related to my dissertation. I can't help commenting on this stuff.

I agree with you, it's just people seemed confused as to how the swastika could relate to anything other than the nazi movement so I elaborated. :)

DRT99
04-27-2009, 01:17 AM
lI'm fairly certain this is availiable as a sticker.... can anyone with 100% Confirm?

Nukemgreen
04-28-2009, 03:15 AM
I've been using this a lot to go with my Comrade Conscript bit.

ValinKrai
07-28-2009, 05:44 AM
The swastika is bad when it's like this:
...._
|_|_
._|..|

When the opposite way it is good:
._
._|_|
|..|_

ARD
07-28-2009, 12:09 PM
Um...off topic necrobump?

Mods?

Outlaw-Jack
07-28-2009, 06:22 PM
I don't care about "symbolism". I mean, you shouldn't let, say, a swastika dictacte your choices. So what if something has a swastika on it; Is it necessarily bad? No. When you see the one-eyed pyramid on an American dollar, is it freemasonry? No. When you see an upside-down star, is it a sign of the devil? No. The point I'm trying to push across is that you shouldn't let a few symbols ruin your experience. So what if people found ways to use them; doesn't mean you have to. It's just a weird drawing/picture that some people get paranoid about cuz someone else branded it as "BAD".

qrtda235566
07-29-2009, 01:47 AM
I don't care about "symbolism". I mean, you shouldn't let, say, a swastika dictacte your choices. So what if something has a swastika on it; Is it necessarily bad? No. When you see the one-eyed pyramid on an American dollar, is it freemasonry? No. When you see an upside-down star, is it a sign of the devil? No. The point I'm trying to push across is that you shouldn't let a few symbols ruin your experience. So what if people found ways to use them; doesn't mean you have to. It's just a weird drawing/picture that some people get paranoid about cuz someone else branded it as "BAD".

This is really off topic, but a swastika means good luck, right? That's the only reason the Nazis used it...


The swastika is bad when it's like this:
...._
|_|_
._|..|

When the opposite way it is good:
._
._|_|
|..|_

No, it's good both ways.

Ninteen45
07-29-2009, 02:37 PM
Anyone notice the Fried Chicken object you get in the Ze Dude levels?

Hybrid
08-03-2009, 08:41 PM
no i wil look at it today

S-A-S--G-U-N-R
08-03-2009, 09:44 PM
You can already get the fried chicken object though :|

resistance1
08-05-2009, 11:51 AM
The swatsika was originally a hindu symbol.

Hitler just turned it round 45 degrees.