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SeniorGhost
04-28-2009, 08:02 AM
Hey,
a little while ago I made a 3 digit valve lock. :idea:
I didn't want to count wires, magnetic keys and that stuff, anyways it's all here:

YouTube - Valve lock

Enjoy! Feedback needed and appreciated! :)

SeniorGhost

Cpt_Sainsburys
04-28-2009, 09:39 AM
Dude, thats awesome!
I may try something similar in a level i'm working on.
SP

Zwollie
04-28-2009, 10:01 AM
My mind would implode if I would try something like that!! :p
Well done Seniorghost, looks great!!

Rustbukkit
04-28-2009, 10:14 AM
Rainman says "One hundred and thirteen wires. Yeah... definitely one hundred and thirteen wires on the grid. Uh oh, I farted... oh boy."

Two words... in sane! Nice work.

Wonko the Sane
04-28-2009, 12:30 PM
Pretty fancy stuff. I bet it works like a fly-trap on computer-engineers. Only suggestion I have is perhaps you could use "2-D weels" for the dials. They are essentially like checkpoints: they occupy only a part of a thick layer (so they are in thick layers, without occupying them completely). You can find them in the form of ordinary materials in a lot of glitch levels. The advantage of using something like this (and turning them into grabbable material ofcourse) is that you can turn em around 360 deg without having to hop over or under them. That would mean less trouble if you have to turn the dial all the way up to 9. Anyway, you'll see what I mean if you try it.

rtm223
04-28-2009, 01:02 PM
I bet it works like a fly-trap on computer-engineers.

Pretty much, yes :)

Is there a comentary on the vid? I'll have to have a properly look when I get home - I'm kicking myself for not having headphones at work with me today, there's a couple of bits I just dont get from the visual alone.

SeniorGhost
04-28-2009, 03:29 PM
Is there a comentary on the vid?

Yes there is one.:)

tjb0607
04-28-2009, 04:36 PM
Wow, I love complicated mechanical stuff!!
You should add a jetpack, give the password somewhere in the level, and upload it!

SeniorGhost
04-28-2009, 05:18 PM
Wow, I love complicated mechanical stuff!!
You should add a jetpack, give the password somewhere in the level, and upload it!

Level name: Vault Lock
Password: 6-8-1

Enjoy! :)

dobi6
04-28-2009, 07:31 PM
Way beyond me... I would love to have a timer in the level I am working on, but this is insane...

GruntosUK
04-28-2009, 07:53 PM
Wow, that looks fairly complicated and very cool. Well done, I'll check this out later.

AJnKnox
04-28-2009, 10:09 PM
My brain just melted watching the demo!

Don't worry I have health coverage so you wont be charged!


Holy Smoke thats awesome.




Thanks for the demo :)



:grr:

dawesbr
04-28-2009, 10:24 PM
That. Is. Awesome. The digit display is just...beautiful, and it works so well! Well done for finishing it - the last really complicated switch mechanism I made (check for any of around 600 states. Twice over.) overloaded. If you are going to release this as copyable for key-levels, I would make the changing-of-the-code a little easier. Other than that, Good job!

Silverleon
04-28-2009, 11:40 PM
That is iinsane! :D

Pretty awesome, altho i'd reccomend placing a motor bolt where the regular one is instead, and connecting them to 3-way switches set to direction so its easier to select the numbers :)

Dexiro
04-28-2009, 11:55 PM
what you did is awesome ^^
i can't even to begin to understand how that works

i have a similar idea for one that just has magnetic keys attached to a wheel, and the 3 wheels have to be in the right position to open the gate. that way it'd be really easy to change the combination

lk9988
05-10-2009, 02:25 PM
Wow that's awesome! That's one of the most complex things I've seen in LBP. I make pretty complex stuff too, but nowhere near as complicated as that!

rtm223
07-06-2009, 10:42 PM
So I know this is a big bump on a month-old thread, but I didn't want to start another thread.

Basically, I decided to rework the backend of this device. I came out at just under 5 bars of thermo (I originally thought it was 6 but there was a whole bunch of excess stuff knocking around). Which is a nice improvement on seniorghost's 14. Obviously this makes it, in some ways, less impressive, but I was pleased with myself :)

Oh and there is no need for a jetpack because it all fits on one screen.

I just uploaded it. The level is called "valve lock / level lock" and has a little picture of an LED display on it. If you can guess the 3-digit password then you can have the copyable version. The password is very very obvious.

NinjaMicWZ
07-08-2009, 09:55 AM
^I just tried to make a therm light LED counter after watching this (and a really therm heavy emitter-based one, that counts much smoother)... the counter itself only takes up about a 4/5ths of a block of therm though. I didn't try any valve mechanics for it though. Im gonna go see what you came up with.

EDIT: Wow... yours is way sicker than the one I came up with. It's like a cross between the therm heavy one and the therm light one.

rtm223
07-08-2009, 10:41 AM
Ninja, was that aimed at my version or seniorghost's? Any chance I can see the low therm version you made?

The design I made bundles the counting in with the LED display, then minimises the mag keys on the dissolve pieces by treating it as a 7-segment display rather than a LED grid. Makes it very application-specific, but does OK on the therm. I did like how the digits naturally output a signal from the blue mag switches to indicate the number shown (this was an unintentional bonus!)

One thing you might be able to help with: This was originally going to be a timer, and I tried individually timing each digit (seconds, 10 seconds, minutes). The two seconds digits were in time but the minutes rolled over about 4 seconds early. I was just using emitted keys as timers, didn't bother trying anything else. I remember you said emitter timers can be unreliable, but it was nearly 10% out! Any ideas on this?

NinjaMicWZ
07-08-2009, 11:26 AM
Only thing I can think of from your description and what I remember from your lock (I couldn't get the copy to unlock... keys are bugged for me) is a flipper motion piston controlling the change over, with a key to dissolve... and the grid of keys would have to dissolve manually by mag switches, instead of by emitter timing. Flipper pistons seem to retract or extend like they're vanishing.

I'll publish both of the one's I made copyable as COUNTER... neither are really that great, and the emitter one misses a number or two when it goes backwards but there might be something that helps in one of them. Let me know when you've got it, so I can delete it. It spawns on the therm heavy one, and the simple sliding counter is to the left - and it's bigger than it needs to be.

I was going to try a wheel-based one of the low-therm sliding one, so that it would cycle from 9 to 0 automatically, but I couldn't get the spacing right, and it would change to odd lights between numbers... but the 2nd design of the slider with the piston retracting the grid of switches that activates the LED's might actually work for that now... but making a perfectly symmetrical decagon in this game seems impossible. That's the whole reason I can't get the spacing right.

EDIT: Immediately after typing this, I realized how to make one with two 5 pointed stars and a cut-out square. It works. I just don't have any sequencing for it to do anything.

rtm223
07-08-2009, 01:14 PM
Oh, making polygons in this game sucks. Trying to use wobble bolt offsets for the angles just doesn't work for some reason. I'd like to see a regular polygon tool with tweakable vertices tbh. Nice tip with the stars though.

Anyway, while I was waiting for stuff to compile at work, I realised a solution to my problem. I wanted separate counters for each digit because I didn't want to ripple the updates through (10 minutes digit would a half second behind). What I can do is add the following circuit, so that the whole thing runs off a 1Hz clk signal and each digit updates at the same time:



___
TRUE -----------| |
| & |-------inc_s
clk --|___|

___
s==9 --o--------| |
| | & |-------inc_t
| clk --|___|
|
| ___
---------| |
t==5 -----------| & |-------inc_m
clk --|___|

...etc.


s is seconds,
t is tens of seconds
m is minutes
inc_x is the 1 shot to increment x


Problems with this
The 1 Hz might drift, but that's an limitation of the game engine and I don't think it needs to be 100% accurate
the first second will be delayed by 0.2-0.3s, unless I can tune the clk signal.
Still pretty heavy on thermo.


I'll still take a look at your versions tonight, so don't delete them yet - I'll let you know when. I also think I may have worked out a lower thermo method, but I'm not sure ATM, it might turn out to be one of those "simple" ideas that needs so much supporting logic that it's actually more complex

NinjaMicWZ
07-08-2009, 03:27 PM
I got the wheel one working perfectly. Only 1 emitter involved... it emits a key that times it's turn to stop at 1 digit at a time. 1 LED mechanism takes up 3/5ths a block, but when I went to 3 of them, it went up to 5 blocks; nonsense lol. I'm happy with it though

Not sure if it would desynch in a time clock per-minute, but this thing is cool.

rtm223
07-08-2009, 03:54 PM
I got the wheel one working perfectly. Only 1 emitter involved... it emits a key that times it's turn to stop at 1 digit at a time. 1 LED mechanism takes up 3/5ths a block, but when I went to 3 of them, it went up to 5 blocks; nonsense lol. I'm happy with it though

Not sure if it would desynch in a time clock per-minute, but this thing is cool.

The emitter moving the wheel round exactly 1 notch worries me slightly - the posibility of drift over time is there and hard to test (properly). Did you use a motor bolt or a wobble bolt? IMO the latter is more trustworthy. Anyway it definately does sound cool :) Don't you just love how the thermo is clearly just a random number generator sometimes :p

Sounds cool though.

As for individual digits desynching, or for any multi-digit counter, you could still use the mechanism that I posted above if you hit any problems with that. It just queues up all changes a second in advance then all digits respond to one clock signal at the same time (or should do, I'm 12 miles from my PS3 so can't test it lol)

comphermc
07-08-2009, 03:55 PM
Hey ninja, if you don't mind my asking - what speed/timing/size did you use for your wheel mechanisms? I tried my darndest to get one to work, but I had to break down and use vortex2002's mechanism. I even copied his settings and couldn't replicate it - it's weird.

Or, did you just use the groove technique, so it can only spin one way?

NinjaMicWZ
07-08-2009, 04:18 PM
I'm not sure about it either, rtm... it's a motor bolt, but it seems to spin and spin and spin with no problems, but I think I'd just need a flipper piston block to regulate the openness of the emitting point for the pink key.

I published this lcounter as a prize in a lock level... code is 303. Big LBPC icon, right next to Free At Last.

There's no groove... I don't know... it's set on like... 12 seconds I think, emitter is on one shot .1 and .1. Like I said, the hard part was really just getting the decagon placement of a 10 sided number wheel. I kept failing at it for about 45 minutes, and accidentally saved without exiting - then when I reloaded, I set up the emitter, changed the speed, and it worked perfectly without me even trying to adjust the placement. Thank god I failed at saving.

Get the bubble and check it out. It's extremely simple. I could make it even simpler by combining all the dissolve blocks into a single block wheel. Keys would remain in place and work the same. (EDIT: added the simpler - single block wheel version as a prize too)

comphermc
07-08-2009, 04:58 PM
Alright, I took the prizes back to my moon and tried them out. There appears to be something funky going on the timing of the piston. The very first pull causes everything to fall out of alignment. The switch still causes it turn, but it doesn't line up, so no numbers are shown. I was really hoping it would work, because your design is very conducive to a timer setup (which is what I'm looking to create). I did test out how to set this up (even though the display wasn't working). A wobble bolt wheel set to direction with a permanent grab switch, timing set to 2 seconds so it makes one revolution every second. Set up mag keys on the wheel to fire a one shot on the emitter system you were using and it should make a relatively decent timing mechanism with led readout.

Edit: the problems were with both the little one and the big one. There was obviously something weird going on because all of the wires were misaligned with what they were supposed to be connected to, and were essentially floating, not connected to anything. They still worked, but everything seemed to be shifted over a couple of units.

NinjaMicWZ
07-08-2009, 05:16 PM
Wow... that is definitely weird. I swear the prizes are exactly the same as the one's I laid down in the lock level itself.

rtm223
07-08-2009, 08:00 PM
Sounds like you have a rendering problem there comp. Try deleting the object, rebooting and getting it again. I got Ninja's device and it works fine

I did notice that mine is doing the same thing as yours with the thermo ninja, first 2nd and thried devices are way more thermo intensive than the first. Talking of thermo, my version is now down to 4 bars of thermo :D

Will re-upload it later.

NinjaMicWZ
07-08-2009, 10:18 PM
I made a 10 digit counter out of the wheels, still kind of off, but workable by tonight. Should go up to 99,999,999, and I've triggered them to make sure they cycle, but obviously haven't watched it afor anymore than a half hour lol I have it going a hair faster than an actual second just to cycle it through, yet still, can't really say for sure how long it stays in synch, or if it desynchs at all.

Pulished next to the other LBPC icon with another LBPC icon. Still working a couple kinks out, but it should be up and running for all digits in sequence here in about half an hour, since I'm looking at mus

comphermc
07-08-2009, 10:33 PM
Thank ninja, I will be sure to check it out.

I'm not sure what the deal with the alignment was. I tried again a couple of times, and sometimes it worked, but other time it didn't. It appeared to be a problem with the first key being emitted for a very short period of time... I don't know, I got it to work in the end.

Edit: you know what - I think it was my fault. I didn't set the emitters to zero before re-wiring them. So, even though it was paused, one of the keys was emitted for the briefest of moments, hence the misalignment.

nartules
07-13-2009, 09:45 PM
My brain has been destroyed...I caught a glimpse of the video and whatever is going on here is amazing. I feel like i need to take a college coarse just to understand it!

The potential for making levels situated around the device are unique though, so I will defintely keep watching this thread to see if the thermo count can get under 2.

TheMarvelousHat
07-15-2009, 05:46 AM
Such a complex awesome vault lock! Nice work, man!


... BTW, you sound like you have a cold. :P

Bushka
07-17-2009, 12:27 PM
That is by far the most complex looking thing i've ever seen made on LBP :O I would never be able to understand all of that...

Dan_Westy
07-25-2009, 06:59 PM
check out the digital lock i posted.....more simple, 4 didgits and less thermmometer!!