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View Full Version : Yes, use F4F MineCart Madness [Extended Edition]! *PICS & TUTORIAL VIDEO INSIDE*



Coxy224
05-16-2009, 06:31 PM
Level Name: MineCart Madness [Extended Edition]
PSN: Coxy224
Location: Egypt(ish)

I've just finished creating my second level - MineCart Madness. It shows off my new technology, the Jumping Cart. See if you can survive the whole level without losing a life; this will result in you winning the Cart and the race mode for the level. R1 is to make the Cart jump.
Inspired by the DonkeyKong Country level, MineCart Madness but is not an exact copy - more a LBP twist on the subject.
Here's a few pictures to wet your fancy:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e56/Snoogyface/APhoto_5.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e56/Snoogyface/APhoto_4.jpg



What the Critics are saying:

The gameplay was super addicting (but only for competitive players, since i refuse to not finish levels unless its rubbish)

By the time I finsihed the level I had tears in my eyes

Hey - you're really kicking my rear on this one.

Thanks for reading - I look forward to your feedback

01philip01
05-16-2009, 06:38 PM
I never got passed the four jump xD because i hold the jump to long. i have to say its okay would be nice if theres was some more details. i was hoping u had to do the jumping xD

i 3'd it and hearted.

Coxy224
05-16-2009, 07:28 PM
It was inspired by the Donkey Kong Country levels where you were in the mine cart. It's R1 to jump, and the whole cart jumps as opposed to just you.
I'll just edit the first post to tell people that :)
Thanks for playing (when you do ;) )

graygoose
05-16-2009, 11:40 PM
im on Secooooooond!!

2nd place that is. took me awhile to figure out the race mode but i did. It required me to tweak a little bit of this and that of course.

But heres my feedback:

Pros:
+ The level looks good and simple
+ The gameplay was super addicting (but only for competitive players, since i refuse to not finish levels unless its rubbish)
+ Race mode put a smile in my face (the feeling of being rewarded made me heart this level)

Cons:
- Although it might be a good thing but the level is short

Suggestions:

Perhaps lighten it up a bit. it was little dark in my opinion.

Overall:

3 stars and timing with a heart

(i rarely heart a level with 3 stars but its a good thing you added that race mode)

smasher
05-16-2009, 11:58 PM
Tried this, and here's what I think. Actually at first I was like this is a total pain. Then I tried again, and again, and again I think you know where I'm going with this. It's very addictive. It has a little bit of a learning curve to it, but when you get going It's pretty fun. Couple of complaints though. I hate having to use a sticker to activate the race mode. If you want to improve your score it gets tedious puling out the sticker every time.
It would be more streamlined to just put it on a button. If you change that part I'll be back for sure to improve my score. The other thing is that the cart breaks alot. I know you might not be able to do anything about it, but it's kind of annoying when you make a perfect jump, but when you land the wheel breaks off the cart. Overall a solid level though. It's too bad most people won't have the patience to learn it, because it's really fun.

could you give feedback on my level (mountain marathon) thanks.

Matt 82
05-17-2009, 12:35 AM
Playing it just now and it`s cool. I`m not stopping til I finish. What I would suggest though is sticking in an infinite life just at the start as constantly pausing to restart is a pain. Given that without the race points it`s essentially just a practice run. Then maybe then get rid of it if the person puts it in race mode?

EDIT** For some reason the sticker to trigger the race does not work. I can find it in my sticker poppit, but when I click on it, it just blinks but does not exit the poppit to allow me to place it.

Coxy224
05-17-2009, 08:05 AM
Cons:
- Although it might be a good thing but the level is short

Suggestions:

Perhaps lighten it up a bit. it was little dark in my opinion.

Overall:

3 stars and timing with a heart

(i rarely heart a level with 3 stars but its a good thing you added that race mode)

Thanks for the heart :)
The level is very short, and I'm sorry for that. I will go back and increase the length if I continue to get a good reception. I wasn't sure what sort of feedback it would get so I didn't want to make it too long.
I will consider lightening it up aswell, my eyes were hurting a bit after playing it for some itme - I just didn't like the look of the background with it.


I hate having to use a sticker to activate the race mode. If you want to improve your score it gets tedious puling out the sticker every time.
It would be more streamlined to just put it on a button.

I can see your point, but I wanted to reward race mode for people who could actually ace the level (hence you get the sticker if you ace it). I'll try to find a way to do both but it could be difficult.


The other thing is that the cart breaks alot. I know you might not be able to do anything about it, but it's kind of annoying when you make a perfect jump, but when you land the wheel breaks off the cart.
Yeah, this one is annoying but I can't do anything about it. I've tried using different materials but all I can suggest is only jumping where you have to.


What I would suggest though is sticking in an infinite life just at the start as constantly pausing to restart is a pain. Given that without the race points it`s essentially just a practice run. Then maybe then get rid of it if the person puts it in race mode?
The thing is, the cart isn't emmited so you only really get one go. To get on the leaderboard you just have to die (as the checkpoint is destroyed by then). I will try to get them emmited, but then you would have to jump over your other minecart.


EDIT** For some reason the sticker to trigger the race does not work. I can find it in my sticker poppit, but when I click on it, it just blinks but does not exit the poppit to allow me to place it.
I haven't had this. Perhaps you could try restarting the level or something :(


Thanks for the feedback guys, I'll try to get these F4F's done ASAP :)

Morgana25
05-17-2009, 08:09 AM
Hey - you're really kicking my rear on this one. I can make it about 5 "jumps" in and then the card flips on me. I know it's my bad playing but I've played it about 10 times (sorry for the high replay messing with your heart ratio) and I just can't get it. I'm not saying it's bad - because the concept is great. I just think it might be too hard for me at the moment. I'll try again tomorrow for a bit.

Also - any reason you left the level so dark? Is it to make it harder?

BalaBombz
05-17-2009, 08:36 AM
Hey man...

Great concept and idea, although, I think it might be a bit hard for me... I can never get over like the 5th jump... The cart sometimes just gets stuck in a certain spot cause it didn't jump high enough... I tried several times, but just can't do it... And what sticker is used to activate race? I reakon the level should be classed as a race from the start...

3 stars man... No heart this time round though...

Edit... Forget the race question... Just red your first post again...

Coxy224
05-17-2009, 10:10 AM
Thanks for the feedback! :)
I just realised how hard it can be for new comers when I asked my brother to try it. He's 9 and couldn't complete it until I showed him how. The problem a lot of people are having, is jumping too much. I can complete the level using only 3 jumps. I think the most you should have is 4 jumps. Anything over that and you're bound to flip at some point. I'll see what my camera is like and record me doing the level if it's any good, just so you can see how it's done ;)

@Morgana - It's dark because I don't really like the background. I may well consider putting in some lights hanging from the ceiling. I just wanted it to look more like a mine.

Anyway, thanks for everyone who has played so far

smasher
05-17-2009, 10:54 AM
I know you want to reward players with points, but I don't think it really matters. Because if you don't ace it you don't finish at all, but if you want to be extra sure just make the home stretch a big long gas pit. If you don't have your cart, you don't finish. You could also put optional tips for players who are new. Your saying that you only need three jumps is right. That's what I boiled it down to also, but it took me many tries to figure it out. If I knew that going in it would've been much more friendly.

rtm223
05-17-2009, 11:14 AM
I actually have a donkey kong esque minecart on my moon where I tried to do the exact same thing, but I coulnd't get mine stable. I may revisit it at some point. I was trying to get x to be the jump button and r1 to be a break though...

To be honest, I don't think the rocket booster is the way to go. First time i jumped the cart just flipped because I was at the front. As each landing throws you about a bit it just means the jump is going to behave differently every time. It is a nice idea, but I think it needs a lot more work before it's really a level.

Coxy224
05-17-2009, 11:16 AM
@ Smasher - Thanks, what people are missing is the fact that if you die, you still finish. Just jump onto some gas and you'll be taken straight to the scoreboard. Hence you don't always ace the level :)
I thought people would figure it out, but it's easier to kill yourself I guess.

@ RTM - Bit harsh eh? :p
I feel it's still a level, just a bit difficult for some people. Once you get the idea of how to jump, you're fine. Positioning yourself in the mine cart is all part of the challenge.

For anyone interested, I am working on extending the level :)

smasher
05-17-2009, 01:40 PM
@ Smasher - Thanks, what people are missing is the fact that if you die, you still finish. Just jump onto some gas and you'll be taken straight to the scoreboard. Hence you don't always ace the level :)
I thought people would figure it out, but it's easier to kill yourself I guess.

@ RTM - Bit harsh eh? :p
I feel it's still a level, just a bit difficult for some people. Once you get the idea of how to jump, you're fine. Positioning yourself in the mine cart is all part of the challenge.

For anyone interested, I am working on extending the level :)

on a level like this I ALWAYS just restart when I die. I think other people do the same. I guess It's up to you really. Maybe feedback from more people will help you decide.

smasher
05-17-2009, 01:45 PM
I actually have a donkey kong esque minecart on my moon where I tried to do the exact same thing, but I coulnd't get mine stable. I may revisit it at some point. I was trying to get x to be the jump button and r1 to be a break though...

To be honest, I don't think the rocket booster is the way to go. First time i jumped the cart just flipped because I was at the front. As each landing throws you about a bit it just means the jump is going to behave differently every time. It is a nice idea, but I think it needs a lot more work before it's really a level.

Actually with some practice this level does get easier. I don't think It's fair to say It's not a level yet. He's just trying to do something different. There's too many mindless race levels out there. This one at least forces you to learn some technique.

Matt 82
05-17-2009, 05:27 PM
The thing is, the cart isn't emmited so you only really get one go. To get on the leaderboard you just have to die (as the checkpoint is destroyed by then). I will try to get them emmited, but then you would have to jump over your other minecart.


It`s the spawning at the leader board that gets annoying. I can`t remember exactly how many attempts it took to get across, but it was somewhere between 10 and 15 easily. So you either hit start and retry when you die or wait til you get your score etc before selecting 'play again'. It would be quicker, and better imo if you just got sent back to the start rather than the end. Then you can practice as much as you want, with the spawn disappearing once you select race so you only get one go at that.

As for the cart, as long as you emit the first one (any emitted in create mode are there to stay, however) and have the emitter set to allow only one at a time the previous one will vanish giving you a clear run.

Bear
05-17-2009, 08:58 PM
I can't say I'm too keen on this level. Pieces broke, it flipped so many times and was very dark.

But still, it seems pretty easy to fix with the right advice, so I'm giving it 3 star.

TBrent118
05-17-2009, 09:10 PM
Yeah...first place! At first I, like many other people, thought the level was frustrating but it became pretty addictive. I eventually discovered only three jumps was necessary but a hint at the beginning or at the end after a failed attempt would help players a lot. I also would have preferred not having to retry a level after dying once. An unlimited lives chechpoint and emitted cart would probably keep players interested in trying to complete your level fully. Other than that I thought the level looked good and the lighting fit the level well but could be a little lighter. Good Job.

PSN: Uncharted23

rtm223
05-17-2009, 10:28 PM
Ok so apparently I'm being unreasonable. Basically, when you mentioned the donkey kong minecart levels, I got really excited, as I remember loving these from my childhood. Those levels were fast-paced challenges all about timing your jumps correctly. I don't feel you have captured the essense of the donkey kong minecart. Sorry, that's how I felt and I posted based upon that disappointment. Probably I shouldn't have.

However,the level is built around the technology of strapping rockets to a MM minecart. I don't think this technology is stable or mature enough yet to be the basis for a level. I abandoned my attempt at this when it was around this stable, on the basis that it wasn't stable enough. Therefore I said I didn't think your level was ready yet.

General critisisms:
The jumping doesn't feel right, it feels like floating. You can actually fly a decent distance if you try.
The wheels fall off. No only during bad landings, but also during good landings and it happened at least once when I was just rolling down a piece of track
Parts of track aren't glued down.
There is dark matter showing.


Constructive feedback:

Have you thought about using a flipper piston to achieve the jumping so that you do get a kind of bounce. This would also prevent flying. If not you can at least use angle sensors to prevent the rocket from triggering when it is not on the tracks. It may also help reduce the dependency of sackboy positioning.
Suspension. Will help prevent the wheels from breaking. Will also help with stability and reduce dependency of sackboy positioning.
Respawning the cart when you die is, in my opinion a must. You should also have plans in place to allow for checkpoints spawning carts along the path, if you plan to extend the level.

I genuinely commend you for trying something new, and if you get this to the point where it really does feel like those donkey kong levels, I'll be all over it like a rash. For now, it is a 3* level.

blizzard_cool
05-19-2009, 07:51 PM
I still haven't beaten this:blush:

Coxy224
05-20-2009, 09:37 PM
No worries about that, I'm back from holiday and half term is coming up so I'm planning to do two things:
a)Increase the level length
b)Work out some annoying bugs etc.
c)Use the feedback I've received to make the level better

I'm going to emit the carts from now on, and may well indeed have a race button instead of sticker.
Oh and I will post a video of me doing it if my camera starts to work again :)
Thanks for the feedbacl guys

oldage
05-20-2009, 09:45 PM
I enjoyed this.
my brother gave up tho, he was annoyed at the difficulty (mind him, he's 9)
all I'm hoping for is you making it longer!
it's fun :)

oh and what's up with "Madness" in level titles nowadays :(

Coxy224
05-20-2009, 09:59 PM
Ah, I know what it's like to have a 9 year old brother ;)
He had no clue how to beat it until I finally showed him!

As for the "Madness", well it was named after the Donkey Kong Country level that it was inspired by - so I guess it's their fault, instead of mine :)

CCubbage
05-21-2009, 01:33 PM
Okay, I played this one last night - and even thought I don't think it's a "Grade A" level, I have to stand up for it.... I had sooooo much fun with this level. It had me laughing pretty hard.

So, the first time I play it I didn't have the sticker and I played without the race. I BEAT IT THE FIRST TIME! I thought... well, that wasn't so hard. Must be a bunch of noobs putting feedback on Coxy's thread. But, I noticed I had a score of zero... that wasn't good.

Then I put the sticker on.

I realized very quickly the first run was a fluke. I started, jumped, flipped, died. Then I started, jumped, jumped, landed between the tracks and died. Then I jumped, landed, wheel broke, died.

So I went through this over and over and over, each time laughing a bit more at watching my results. After about 15 times I made it over the finish line with an actual score, laughing so hard I had tears in my eyes.

Driving the minecarts is the cross between a mine cart, an airplane, and a lunar moon landing.

I decided 2 things about this level:

a. If you enter it with the right attitude, and have a sense of humor about it this level is INCREDIBLY fun.

b. You may have created a level with the worst heart/play ratio of all time. Most decent levels get an average of 10% hearts. Since it may (best case scenario) take people playing it 10 tries... at best this means you may get .1% hearts if people like it.

I'm glad you made this one... I had a good time!

The one thing I was thinking when I played it... I have NO idea why you did the sticker idea. Why not just have NO sticker and make it a race all the time. I can't imagine the disappointment of taking 20 tries to finish and not realizing you forgot to put the sticker on at the beginning. Most likely people are going to finish it once, breath a sigh of relief, and be done - so requiring beating it again using a sticker is odd.

GruntosUK
05-21-2009, 01:55 PM
How on earth you did beat it in one try Ccubbage, definetly beginners luck. I've had 10 goes and have failed every one.

Immense amount of fun though Coxy, good job

mrsupercomputer
05-21-2009, 09:32 PM
Just finished playing this and my thoughts mirror many in the thread so far. The level is short and needs a bit more polish (pieces unglued, dark matter showing, etc). The actual jumping mechanic takes some time to get used to, but I must admit, once I did, I found myself pretty satisfied... and addicted! I wanted the top spot on the leader board sooo bad, but unfortunately, I had to settle for second.

I agree with the members who suggest getting rid of the sticker and just make it a race from the beginning. Overall, I think that a bit more polish, a few tweaks here and there, and a longer race could really improve this fun idea.

Coxy224
05-21-2009, 09:37 PM
Ok, thanks to everyone who has played it. I've been making updates throughout tonight, but it's all going to be kept hidden on my moon until it's finished.
I can confirm the following, the Extended Edition will include;
Race from the Start

Longer, more defined gameplay

More detail

More polish!

For now though - an awfully bad quality video of me completing it (still took me four tries though)!
Skip to around 1.11 unless you want to see me fail (the first one is hilarious)! :p

Whalio Cappuccino
05-21-2009, 09:45 PM
The master is getting on to give this a go. :p

Coxy224
05-21-2009, 09:45 PM
Well good luck to you Whaaaaaale, many have tried and failed :p

Loius
05-21-2009, 09:53 PM
Pros:
+Wow that was fun.

Cons
-I couldn't see far enough! Need camera zone!
-Pulling out sticker over and over was annoying.

Suggestions:
:Emit the cart/gates from a 1-at-a-time emitter so you don't have to restart level to try again.
:I'd rather have a single puff of rocket power (a little stronger than the current power) than a long pffffft of smoke, so it actually looks like a jump instead of a hover.
:Add a camera zone that centers a bit in front of your cart and is angled to give enough warning that the jumps are at least visible the first time.
:Maybe add some kind of indicator a jump is incoming - lights, more obviously broken/rusted railing, whatever.

Awesome level, and I definitely want to see more.

4/5

Whalio Cappuccino
05-21-2009, 09:59 PM
Done! After 15 tries, but I think I got it down perfectly.

PROS:

+Fun, and addicting!
+Never seen this done before, good job!
+Materials, music, theme is nicely done.

CONS:

-Too dark, and you can't really see that far.
-Wheels break off sometimes (More on that later).
-The restart factor has already been discussed so I won't talk about that.
-A bit too short.

OVERALL:

I liked it, it was fun and addicting, after a few simple tries you should get it down like pie to be honest. As for the wheels, there are a few issues here, for example, I don't see it as Coxy's fault if you want to hold down R1 for the maximum amount of time, then you come crashing down and your wheel breaks, I see it as your fault, don't hold R1 down that long. Buuuut, there are some cases were the wheel would just break, I would just be cruisin' down the tracks... I gave it a 4 star, no heart yet but with a few improvements, and a longer length. It'll get a nice heart. :p

Tagged "Fun" too, after I'm done playing it. :)

OH EM GEE!

I finished it once more, but this is what really might tick others off, and end up giving you 1 star! I came in with too much speed, and I flew into the wall, the cart essentially flipped towards the right, and I'm stuck between the cart and the wall. With the scoreboard right next to me! Might want to fix that, and WTF happened to my sticker when I beat it last time? What's going on MM!

Coxy224
05-22-2009, 07:25 AM
Ok, thanks to everyone who has so far played it and left feedback - much apprieciated :)

I am still working on getting a bit more length, and of course removing the sticker at the start in favour of a full on race!
I was suprised nobody had yet realised you could miss the scoreboard, but that's fixed too :p

blizzard_cool
05-22-2009, 07:39 PM
I really like this. It's fun & addicting but it doesn't feel like jumping, more like hovering.

Suggestions:
- it's to dark, make it more sunny.
- Add a background to make it look better
- use a harder material for the wheels cause they break... often

Overall I rated it 4 stars but I harted it cause it's so fun :)

Coxy224
05-23-2009, 09:44 AM
Thank you for the feedback :)
I'd like to take a quick moment to celebrate the fact I got on cool levels (ok, it was page 11 - but I'm there!)



Moment over, now back to the Extended Version. Should be ready soon hopefully.
It will be sunnier although I'll keep the same general gameplay and cart.

EDIT:
And now I'm ready! The Extended Edition is up. Separate level, called MineCart Madness [Extended Edition] published right next to the other one.
The new edition is based on feedback and has the following changes implemented:
It is now longer, with a wider variety of jumps
Most track issues worked out (no more randomly flipping over!)
Subtle hints as to when a jump is coming
Race Mode is now the only mode!
Lighter making it easier to see
More camera angles to decrease difficulty
Scoreboard issue fixed

So go play!
This isn't the end either, I'm still taking on as much feedback as possible :)

lk9988
05-24-2009, 03:26 PM
As you released it recently, I'm gonna leave feedback for the extended edition. I finally finished it too, so I thought now would be a good time to leave feedback. This level is a very good concept, it's fun, and it's ADDICTIVE. I'll go on to the pros and cons:

Pros:
+ It's a genius concept that I really like, it also works quite well
+ It's very fun, and addictive when trying to finish it
+ It has a quite nice visual style, with a very approiate materials used
+ The minecart runs on a rail. I really like that piece of detail
+ It has a hectic and challenging feel to it.

Cons:
- It's a bit too dark. I think you should add more lights to it
- The minecart sometimes tips over to it's side or breaks one of it's wheels
- You only have one life
- There isn't any camera zones at places where you have to jump (or at least as far as I can tell).

Overall i gave your level 4 stars and a heart. I usually don't heart levels I give 4 stars to but I found this level so addictive, I did. Good work!

RangerZero
05-24-2009, 04:08 PM
I really like your concept there and I definetely think about Donkey Kong Country when I play it since it was one of my favorite games in SNES times.
I still feel that the level is an experiment though and not "a level".

Oce you get the hang of the cart you really get that adrenaline awesome feeling. I too would have like to have more lives than only one. Also, this will disrupt your heart/plays ratio if you leave it as it is and that ratio helps to climb the cool pages. (not that you have to care about the cool pages mind you).

Now if I were you I would totally make this longer (full horizontal lenght of the level space!) and try to decorate and make some nice envirronements. I'm sure there's thousands of people that would think your level simply rocks.

Continue your good work. You're definetely unto something here.

.

FatFaceJoe
05-30-2009, 12:56 PM
Thanks for that.
So frustrating yet so addicting :P

I got 4,853, aced it too, which puts me in 4th place ;)

Miglioshin
05-31-2009, 02:15 PM
As usual I say first of all that I didn't read the previous post concerning this level, so I can provide a neutral feedback; I apologize in advance if I stress something you are already told.

Just gave a hundred rolls to this, since I am very competitive.
Too bad I just managed to score 5300, and after an hour of retries I told to myself that the second place on the scoreboard was fine.

I have two major complaints concerning this level:

The first is that the cart breaks too many times and flip around too easily.
I'm not sure of what you can do about it...

The second is that you do not explain nothing to the general player, neither that the cart can jump, so it required me a pair of plays to understand it.
General players (usually) won't give it a second or third try (and you know I know it ;-) )...

Since the speed of the cart is very high, I suggest you to make the jumps more distant from each other.
Another suggestion I can think of is to build more surroundings and enviromental decorations to make it look nicer and nicer.

I can't wait to see how you implement this gameplay in a non-survival level, longer and more complex.

Rated 5 stars and hearted, very challenging, requires a lot of replays to study the route and wheter to jump or not and where and for how long (to maximize the score like I did).

I had fun.

Coxy224
06-24-2009, 06:57 PM
A little it of a major bump here on my thread, but its all for a good reason!
Everyone, roll up for a new look, better feeling, more story oriented Minecart Madness! :)

The wheels are now 100% stronger
The visuals are now improved
More of an intro/ story
More fun and cursing than you can wave a stick at!

Go look for yourself.
Didn't enjoy it before? Maybe you will now!

Phew....... that was hard work.

FlameAtNight
06-30-2009, 06:13 PM
Played Minecart Madness [Extended Edition] and absolutely LOVED it! Had to play 15 odd times to get it right but I got it! When I made the last jump I landed but the wheel broke, I JUST made it! Uploaded a picture too.

Pros:
+Addictive
+Fun
+Well presented
+Works Well
+Timer on MineCart's Rocket

Cons:
-The HUGE lump of metal to destroy the start gate!
-Too addictive :p

rated :star::star::star::star::star: and a Heart!

If you want to get rid of the metal there is a simpler way to destroy the start gate. I used it in my teleportation Concept level. Attach a rod to your start gate and raise it up to a bit of dark matter out of sight somewhere. Attach a creature brain onto the dark matter and then connect a one-shot sensor switch to the brain. Problem solved!
PM me if you have a problem.:)

Feedback on my level: The Cave Descent please.
Thanks

Coxy224
07-02-2009, 07:00 AM
Thanks a lot for that feedback, very good thoughts :)
I'll get round to the F4F as soon as I can!