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NinjaMicWZ
06-02-2009, 08:24 PM
Had to make this for a friend of mine today, and do it real simple and easy to explain for what he needed... figured I'd pass it along to whoever else might be able to use it.

It's not the most complex logic, but pretty all purpose for Rex-style, multi-stage boss attack patterns. It's very modifiable and upgradeable, and only uses one emitter, so it's pretty reliable under laggy conditions too.

If anyone's interested, or needs something like this, look for "Make Your Boss Smarter" with the LBPCentral icon.

Wonko the Sane
06-02-2009, 09:58 PM
A question on the side: what's the problem with emitters and lag? I'm keen to know because I tend to solve a problem with emitters first and ask questions later.

brnxblze
06-03-2009, 12:28 AM
Awesome! I was thinking about making my first boss but I was getting annoyed since I didn't know how to make it multi-stage. I might try again thanks to you!

jwwphotos
06-03-2009, 01:17 AM
Awesome, thanks a bunch! I will check it out later!

NinjaMicWZ
06-03-2009, 01:45 AM
Cool... glad it helps. Hopefully it's easy to understand... if the magic mouth dialogue seems like gibberish, just observe it and see how it works. It's a prize in the level to take back to create mode and experiment with and explore.

If there's anything that seems off, or any questions about it (what's what/how to modify or expand etc), just ask.

...and Wonko, it's not always a bad idea to use emitters, it just depends on the circumstances of the level, and what they're doing. Pistons and wobble bolts and whatnot can be unreliable in bad connections as well, but most of the time, if they're not breaking or jumping, they're stable... with time synched lifespan-specific emitter logic, a single milisecond of internet discretion can throw some complex mechanics into an immediate malfunction.

If your set ups don't have problems, there's no reason to worry... but if you ever do have a level or sequence that's failing when you play online or with others? I would try a strictly mechanical route like this.

Anything can mess up in lag though... I have things that won't dissolve, pistons that alter trajectory - the weight of sackboys shifting all over the place in lag pockets and smashing into moveable objects can cause enough change in physics to ruin a delicate operation. I have a work in progress right now that's intro sequence was giving me 10 different results whenever I played with others, but was always perfect when played offline on my moon. It's quite a headache.

Burnvictim42
06-03-2009, 02:41 AM
Anything can mess up in lag though... I have things that won't dissolve, pistons that alter trajectory - the weight of sackboys shifting all over the place in lag pockets and smashing into moveable objects can cause enough change in physics to ruin a delicate operation. I have a work in progress right now that's intro sequence was giving me 10 different results whenever I played with others, but was always perfect when played offline on my moon. It's quite a headache.

Don't you hate that? =/ I know its rather annoying when things break like that. funny that even dissolve isn't 100% perfectly safe.

dkjestrup
06-03-2009, 04:29 AM
I tried to show Morgana25 a system exactly like this, but using a wheel with one "cog". The cog had a key on it, and was blocked as it went around, and as it was blocked it turned on another wheel, which went until you destroyed the weakspot and the cog moved away...

EDIT: Oh, and btw, great job man, I can definately see how this would help somebody.

Just some feedback, it would be cool if you split the timing up into seconds, on a bar, where we put the mag key, so it's easier to synchronise patterns. Like on a thin layer, with a thin strip coming up and second or half second intervals.

Coxy224
06-03-2009, 07:49 PM
Wow, that was really good! :)
Thanks a lot for this - it'll really help my boss battles from now on

Chicago51
06-03-2009, 09:06 PM
Thanks. I'm currently working on the boss for my first level and might be able to take some ideas from it.

GruntosUK
06-04-2009, 11:51 AM
I was playing around with this yesterday, should work perfect for the boss I'm about to add in the new level.

Cheers Ninja ;)

jwwphotos
06-05-2009, 02:27 AM
Finally was able to take a good look at this today. Very cool.. I like the simplicity as well as how the next cycle is in effect staged and ready to drop in place. I had done some thinking on how I might do it with a coaster of sorts on a small oval track to loop around for the next cycle. Though it might have been fun to watch, this is much simpler and to the point. It also looks easier to time the delay between attacks. This should work out great for the level I am working on now.

Thanks so much for sharing this!

rtm223
06-07-2009, 10:51 PM
Nice bit of tech there. I was actually expecting to see one of those multiple-output-1-shot-triggered-cog-wheel devices, which I'm really not very keen on. Your device I much prefer because to add an extra output, it's not "back to the drawing board" so to speak, you can just tack it on to the end.

I don't have time to think it through now, but is this device extensible (or reducible, depending on how you look at it :p) to not cycle through all previous attacks when it moves up a stage?

The reason I ask is that In the last couple of days I've finally got round to fully stabilising my ordered inputs tool (it was stable enough for use before, it was just awkward if you are absent minded, like me). I'm planning on stripping it down to an ordered outputs tool, before releasing it properly, then maybe doing a middle ground which would effectively be a boss logic device that doesn't cycle all previous attacks.

Jaeyden
06-08-2009, 03:21 AM
Yes, yes. Good stuff my friends. Hope to use this sometime soon.

NinjaMicWZ
06-08-2009, 04:27 AM
Nice bit of tech there. I was actually expecting to see one of those multiple-output-1-shot-triggered-cog-wheel devices, which I'm really not very keen on. Your device I much prefer because to add an extra output, it's not "back to the drawing board" so to speak, you can just tack it on to the end.

I don't have time to think it through now, but is this device extensible (or reducible, depending on how you look at it :p) to not cycle through all previous attacks when it moves up a stage?

The reason I ask is that In the last couple of days I've finally got round to fully stabilising my ordered inputs tool (it was stable enough for use before, it was just awkward if you are absent minded, like me). I'm planning on stripping it down to an ordered outputs tool, before releasing it properly, then maybe doing a middle ground which would effectively be a boss logic device that doesn't cycle all previous attacks.

Yeah, as long as the top row of red keys are tabbed to something that will dissolve or die off, there's nothing for it to initiate...

Or using the same design you could build another drop in segment with a different piston-box emitter that gets triggered in a later cycle, and order it all to dissolve the old emitters and activate the new ones as each new cycle is reached, so that it when it's in phase "3" or whatever - the new piston box drops where phase 3 starts and initiate the cycle immediately without any down time between attacks.

It might mean build a little half-wall on each new cycle for the back/left end of the piston to steady itself and push against, and make the front/right end of the piston boxes smaller so that the back can't slide underneath, but the front can.

...and yeah it can be lengthened or shortened as long as a piston will stretch. If it won't allow you to cut into the prize, it shouldn't be too much to build a new one and add as needed.

:/ this would be so much easier with a drawing.

rtm223
06-08-2009, 08:04 AM
this would be so much easier with a drawing. Tell me about it, describing logic devices like this is a nightmare.

Of course, yeah you just dissolve the previous attack keys when you disolve the blocker that goes with them. Nice. TBH I have no intention of using this exactly, I build all my own stuff. I just like looking at other people's to see what I can learn :) It's a nice job though, I'm sure a lot of people wil be able to use it. Thanks for sharing.

NinjaMicWZ
06-08-2009, 10:36 AM
Tell me about it, describing logic devices like this is a nightmare.

Of course, yeah you just dissolve the previous attack keys when you disolve the blocker that goes with them. Nice. TBH I have no intention of using this exactly, I build all my own stuff. I just like looking at other people's to see what I can learn :) It's a nice job though, I'm sure a lot of people wil be able to use it. Thanks for sharing.

Even explaining it with the in-game magic mouths was a confusing explanation... I couldn't use enough, but it was already too many.

...and yeah, I'm the same way... I've never used anything anybody's made. Early on I couldn't really understand people's switches in the tutorials anyway, so making my own out of neccessity was the only way I could figure it out to begin with.

This level somehow got onto page 5, and I think this is the last day or something (only successful level I've had since Contra lol), so I figure the object is what's selling it to people who don't mind using community objects and probably wouldn't be bothered building one at all.

Laharlsama07
06-21-2009, 03:15 AM
was this stage taken down? i cant seem to find it.

NinjaMicWZ
06-21-2009, 09:39 AM
Yes, I'm sorry. I still have the logic box in my items, but I accidentally published over the level with a different one and had to delete it. That's the 2nd level I've lost in a month to publish/delete/copy mishaps... it was kind of nice to have a level that had a good amount of plays, even if it was just a tutorial :/

I will gladly send it to you, if you want.

theamilien
06-21-2009, 12:17 PM
So has the level been taken off then,and if so how could i get the boss logic thingymabobins (tee hee i said thingymabobins :) coz it sounds reli cool :p

Inspector Ice
01-19-2010, 01:36 AM
Thanks a bunch! I've been looking for a way to make my Boss character on my Little Classic Ninja Gaiden stage to be better.I'm starting to hate the brain method...i mean it's okay but there are way better methods.

NinjaMicWZ
01-20-2010, 03:32 PM
Thanks a bunch! I've been looking for a way to make my Boss character on my Little Classic Ninja Gaiden stage to be better.I'm starting to hate the brain method...i mean it's okay but there are way better methods.

Sorry Inspector, this level accidentally got deleted a long time ago, but I believe the logic box prize is available as a scoreboard gift in Free At Last... though, I bet playing through the LBPC logic pack will do more good for you than this. Might still be useful though!

CENTURION24
01-21-2010, 01:24 AM
hey ninja you shoulda have gruntos publish that level copyable. simple.. pfft

NinjaMicWZ
01-21-2010, 09:57 PM
I would, but nah, it wasn't on my moon anymore either... I was notorious for accidentally saving over or completely deleting levels, I think my publish slots are maxed out, and whatever was on my moon and in my profile got wiped out when I sold the PS3. Too bad that stuff isn't directly tied to the PSN (not that there would be space for it).

MPCICP
06-26-2010, 07:44 PM
I can't find it I searched "make your boss smarter" but nothing came up

NinjaMicWZ
06-27-2010, 01:10 AM
sorry, i accidentally deleted this level like an idiot while it was on page 1 because i'm a moron. the logic box is actually available as a prize in for completing Free At Last, but honestly, there's much more diverse and simplified logic out there now and this is really old. check out any of the little big planet central logic levels and you'll be a genius in no time.