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View Full Version : Hey, made my second level. wanted feedback



gulliver49
06-09-2009, 08:56 PM
Well, I'm pretty new to LBP. I'm only had it for about a week now and have made only two levels. The first one pretty much sucks, so I'm not going to even bother posting that one, but I'm actually very happy with the second one.

It's called "Sun Temple Hard Version"

I made an easier Version too and my PSN is peanutbutter700

Check it out! I felt like I could have done better with the decorations and environment, and I really wanted to make the level a lot harder and make the Boss somewhat more difficult, but oh well.

http://i39.tinypic.com/20j1nrc.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/21j0lzo.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/33yqkc5.jpg

ZipCity
06-09-2009, 09:15 PM
Could you upload some screen shots to this thread? That will get your level played more

gulliver49
06-09-2009, 09:20 PM
With my digital Camera? Sure thing, I'll get right on that.

ZipCity
06-09-2009, 09:25 PM
With my digital Camera? Sure thing, I'll get right on that.

you can do it in the game. Under the sticker area of your popit, there is a "take photo" tool. Once you take a photo of an area of your level, find it in the sticker section, hit square, then "upload to HDD". Then it's on your PS3's hard drive, and you can upload it from there or transfer it to a USB drive and upload it from your computer.

gulliver49
06-09-2009, 09:43 PM
Cool! I never knew that was possible. I'll do that right now.

Matt 82
06-09-2009, 09:53 PM
I`m playing through your level now. I know it`s your second level and that you`ve only just picked up the game so don`t take any of the following as criticism. More of a guide.

I`m going to list some stuff that I think needs improving.

- The use of Mm characters. This in itself is not necassarily a bad thing, but it`s a good idea to create your own characters. It shows you`ve put in the effort.

- The use of Mm obstacles. This is more important. The problem with using Mm obstacles is that not only have we all played them before (multiple times) but we all have them in our poppit. For your next level, try making your own obstacles so that the level feels different and has an identity of its own.

- I had to give up on the hard version halfway through and do it on easy. I got to the part with the moving platforms from the Magician`s Palace. So I can`t really comment on much that happens afterwards It`s simply too hard. I would argue that it`s **** near impossible. Not only do you have to get it perfect to get across. You need to be perfect 5 or 6 six times in a row. After dying what must`ve been 20 times I left. If you`re going to create a part in your level that requires a perfect jump (which I would recommend against anyway) you should really only have one of them before moving on. People only like repeating things if the thing is fun in the first place. Even then they`ll get fed up pretty quickly. Having players dying so often will only lead to frustration, which leads to a crappy score.

- There are a lot of cheap deaths. These should be avoided. right at the beginning there are spikes just at the top of a set of stairs that can`t be avoided. Unless you`re in the front layer. Problem is that players won`t know that. It`ll be pot luck whether they make it or not.

- What isn`t pot luck, is that the spikes set right beside the switch kill you for opening the door. Unavoidable deaths are cheap deaths. Not good.

The overwhelming feeling I got from this level is that you were struggling to get the difference between frustrating and difficult. That will improve with time and it`s certainly nothing to be ashamed of as 90% of the creators here have to adjust their levels once people have had a chance to play them as well for the same reasons.

You have the basics right. I didn`t get stuck on anything or caught behind scenery or fall out the level or anything. The level had pretty good pacing as I was never without something to do.

The two things that I think that need to be worked on are originality, and difficulty. My recommendation would be simply to check out other levels that creators here havemade or suggested. You`ll get ideas on how to make your own obstacles and hopefully be able to judge what is difficult and what is irritating.

gulliver49
06-09-2009, 10:13 PM
Thanks for checking out and for the feedback. Making my own traps and characters is a bit daunting for me right now but I hope this website and the community can help me learn how. Are there any specific topics on this board that you could recommend I look at to see levels with user created traps?

And I'm a little confused by what you mean when you say there were "a lot of cheap deaths." You can activate the switch without hitting the spikes. I can do it all the time, so I thought it wouldn't be too bad if I included the spikes into my level. I get what you are saying and I'll try to make stay away from those types of obstacles, but after that are there any deaths you think are cheap?

I also know what you mean about those platforms. I die a lot there too. That's easily the hardest part in the level. But rest assured, it is possible. I and two other people so far have done it. But yeah, I shouldn't have repeated it so often. I was thinking to myself when I was making it that it would be too easy with a reduced number of platforms. I figured that once you got the technique down, you could pull it off a 1000 times and it wouldn't make a difference. Anyway, I'll definitely NOT make that same mistake again.

Let me know how the easy version is. Since it's so much easier, let me know how I did with decorations and overall design of the level. I feel like such a newb in those two categories and I really hope I can make some beautiful levels later on.

Matt 82
06-09-2009, 10:41 PM
I just had another go at that switch, and while it`s technically possible, it requires a certain technique to do it. Just pulling the switch normally will result in death. I`d avoid that kind of thing in future. LBP`s controls can be a bit imprecise at times so things like spikes besides switches and really thin columns (a favourite of creators) that you have to jump onto move survival from skill, to luck.

Like I said I didn`t finish the level so couldn`t see if there are other cheap deaths further ahead. I would count the spikes near the first fire pit (just after the door) as cheap though since they`re so well hidden against the background. You`re too busy looking at the upcoming drop, next thing you die.

Yeah impossible was too strong a word. I made the jump once or twice so if I practiced long enough I`d get to a stage where I could do it everytime. The problem there is, do I want to practice over and over? I kept going so I could give you feedback, before finally giving up. Had I been playing this level at random, I would've given up long before. I know that a lot of the LBP players out there would do the same.

Frustration is probably the number one reason for people giving out low star ratings. They liked to be challenged, but not pwnd.

The look was ok. Wasn`t the greatest looking level, but not an eyesore or anything. Check out 'Temple of Elements' by tankboi. His level has a similar theme to yours and looks stunning, even months after its release. I`m not the best one to talk to about asthetics tbh. One thing that would help the look is some original obstacles. I don`t mean you need to create something that no-one else has ever thought of, just something other than the Mm stuff.

You use quite a few materials so you don`t get tired of looking at the same type of stone or whatever. Like I said earlier, the layout of the level is fine. No big empty spaces or anything.

gulliver49
06-09-2009, 10:51 PM
Don't laugh at me, but that level you recommended...I'm stuck at the first part >.>

There are these triangle things and I'm trying to match them up with the picture, but nothing happens :(

What am I supposed to do?

Matt 82
06-09-2009, 10:58 PM
Just pull the triangles out of the pits and match it up to the image behind it. If it`s the same, the floor should open up. You`ll probably need to jump down to get through if I remember correctly.

Another thing about that level you should know is that it`s full of bugs. Thermometer issues cause all sorts of unexpected things to happen. So it might break. You`re just there to check out the visuals though anyway so wouldn`t worry.

gulliver49
06-09-2009, 11:19 PM
Thanks! I got through and the level is AMAZING! Is there even a point anymore in me making levels? There's no way I can make something like that! :(

Matt 82
06-09-2009, 11:33 PM
Hmm, not quite the effect I was going for there!

Hey maybe you`ll never match that. I have 12 or so levels published and none of them are as good as that. Doesn`t matter though. It`s not about that. It`s about enjoying yourself. No one`s going to judge you because your level isn`t the very bestest ever.

The only person you should be aiming to better, is you. If you stick at it, you`ll improve. Have a wander through this very site and look at some of the creator`s first levels. Then look at what they made with a bit of help from this comunity. Then get your chin up!

gulliver49
06-10-2009, 12:07 AM
lol, yeah it was a little intimidating. I won't give up though. Check out my first level (it called "My First Lvl" BTW >.>) and you can see the difference between that and the Sun Temple. IMO I think I really improved and I hope to do even better.

BTW, you suggested I make my own characters. Now, they probably will look like ****, but are crappy characters better than using MM characters in your opinion?

Matt 82
06-10-2009, 12:16 AM
My characters are super crappy, and they do just fine!

Anyway, this section for the board is for discussing your level not recommendations/discussions etc so we should stop chatting before we get booted out!

Here`s the tutorials (http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=75) section. Have a look through that. It`s very handy. PM me if you have other queries.

gulliver49
06-10-2009, 06:10 PM
Alright I got some pictures up :)

I sorta took them when in create mode so sorry that all my wires and stuff are showing.

Can anyone else go through my level and tell me how it was? Not saying that you didn't do a good job Matt82, I just want to hear more opinions :p

How was the length? I felt like I should have made it longer.

GruntosUK
06-10-2009, 08:04 PM
I'll play your level, I'll add it to my list, I've got a a few to work through first though, so it might not be immediate

We do a community spotlight here, where we choose the best levels of the two previous weeks and post them for everyone to play. If you need to look at some levels, its the best place to start. I'm sure any of the creators on there would help you out if you wanted to know how they did something you don't understand. :)

Community Spotlight Archive (http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=73)

RickRock_777
06-14-2009, 06:21 PM
Hi gulliver49:). I have played both Hard and Easy versions and have some feedback for you. Since the same visuals apply to both, I'll only discuss that once.

Visuals:
Not too bad. The Temple materials in the popit are somewhat ornate to begin with, which helps when first starting out with level creation, but there were clashes of texture from some of the other materials you used that played against a cohesive look. I would suggest sticking with the Temple stones on this level. The camera zones where the moving platforms and pivoting square sections are, do not allow the player to see where they are jumping (blind jump to a distant moving platform), or have a decent view of what is overhead while in the squares (to see what was grabbable and not--i.e. fire vs. the green material).

Easy Version:
Pros:
1. It was a "cake walk" as you stated in your description, which kept my expectations in check.
2. I enjoyed the first 4 moving platforms.
3. I enjoyed the first 3 pivoting squares.

Cons:
1. I'll state this up front, as it impacts the play in this level the most--The speech bubble at the end that said "Wimp! You are not worthy..." should be changed to say something that encourages players, rather than insult them. I'm not sure if this was intended for humor, but kids playing this level will probably not appreciate it. What do you think?
2. The number of platforms should be reduced to eliminate repetition
3. The number of pivoting square sections should be reduced to eliminate repetition


Hard Version:
Pros:
1. I enjoyed the first 3 moving platforms.

Cons:
1. The spikes served more as an annoyance than an enhancement of difficulty, and was really not that difficult for seasoned gamers. I would replace these with an original challenge, a creation from your mind. Challenge yourself to see what you can come up with:).
2. I made it to the 4th platform by sheer luck, as the camera zones forced me to jump blind on a jump that requires precision. I repeated this probably 40 times, in an attempt to finish the level for this review. Repeating this section quickly became boring for me, as I did not see it as practice. I recommend you put a checkpoint on the 3rd or 4th platform to improve the enjoyment factor.


I hope you consider incorporating these changse, as I believe they will improve the game play of these levels.:)

Looking forward to seeing how you've progressed as a creator in the project you are currently working on.:)

Rick

gulliver49
06-14-2009, 07:17 PM
Don't worry, I'll get my review of your level up as soon as possible. Maybe today, but for sure tomorrow:)

Ygg_Barasil
06-15-2009, 06:35 PM
Hi,

Just played your level, and as other have mentioned: the start can be a bit frustrating. I would have tried to eased it out a bit by either remove the first or the second spikes. And the secret area on the back-layer has no way up. I thought it could be a "sneak-by-this-jump" -section, but ended up with using the try-again function.

Then I came to the "luck-jump" (by the moment platform section) and tried many times but I died on a new way all the time. As suggested, maybe add a checkpoint on 3rd platform.

I gave up and tried the easy-version instead and found this more fun (as the hard-version could be a bit frustrating).

I also tried your fist level, and could clearly see improvements in your creation. Try to build your own obstacles for your next level. To use the MM-obstacles (or other players') as inspiration is no problem. And try to make it less difficult ;)

Hope this doesn't seem too harsh, more like some tips :)

gulliver49
06-15-2009, 06:50 PM
Thanks for the feedback! The back layer part with the Score Bubbles does indeed have a way up. I put stairs there ;) I wonder why you didn't find it :confused:

It was nice of you to look at my first level as well. My latest level IMO, is much better than the Sun Temple. Following what Matt82 said, and you reiterated, I have not used any MM obstacles. :)

I will make an Easy and a Hard version of my next level. I'm sorry to say that the Hard version is even harder than anything I have ever created :p But I'll put effort into the Easy one and make sure it is fun.

Thanks again!

Coreymill
06-18-2009, 08:09 PM
I didn't take the time to read through what everyone else wrote, so I may end up saying some of the same things that have already been said.


- In the first speech bubble it says, "only the stong will reach the end" You just misspelled strong.

- I did read a little of what people said and I agree that it is nice to see more custom content in levels and less MM stuff. Not that it would have made the level look/be a whole lot better play-wise it just makes it look like you spent more time on the level.

- I am not sure but I don't think that you used any or at least very little lighting in your level. Lighting can really add a lot to the look and feel of a level and I think that if you were to utilize it some more in your future levels it would really go a long way.

+ Overall the visuals in the level looked pretty good. It was consistent throughout which always helps the level work better as a whole.

+ Using the momentum on the platforms was also nice and pretty fun when you got it right. Although I think there may have been one or two too many of those jumps without a save point. It became really frustrating to get so close to making it only to fall on the last one and have to start all over.

+ The section with all three levels of platforms moving up and down where you had to switch layers to avoid the fire platforms was really cool. I personally have never seen something exactly like that in a level before and it worked really well.

+ The challenge of the sections in the level were reasonable with maybe the exception of being too many consecutive momentum jumps without a save. I consider myself to be pretty good with platforming sections and that still got me frustrated.

Just a note : The part where it said to stay in the middle of the right platforms was probably really difficult but I just jumped up on top of them and ran across easily. Not sure if you want to try and prevent that, or if it is even possible to prevent.

= Overall it was a pretty enjoyable level with some good platforming sections although some of them were repeats/tweaks of MM platforming sections from the official levels. I would say that for as little time as you have had the game this level is quite impressive. It takes time to get down the level editing tools and play around with everything that you have at your disposal to really understand how to best utilize them to your advantage.

gulliver49
06-18-2009, 09:44 PM
Thanks for the feedback man!

Yeah I really don't want people to run on the top! That removes a lot of the challenge.

And that's good of you to notice the typo. I don't know how I could have missed that :confused:

I guess I should have used some lighting, but for being the Sun Temple, it already has enough light that adding more would not really be effective, right? Anyway, my next level, the Moon Temple, is completely dark, so I definitely got to use lighting. :D

Some of the things you said have indeed been repeated, but that's not a bad thing. It just means I have to really work on them on my next level :)

Thanks again!