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View Full Version : Ordered Inputs Tool - level lock, keycodes, puzzles etc. [pics inside]



rtm223
06-16-2009, 01:29 AM
This is my version (probably 4th version now) of an “ordered inputs” tool which I'm now giving away to anyone who wants it. Basically, you have a code made up of a sequence of button presses (for example with 4 switches you might have a-b-c-b-d-a-c) and the system will detect that correct sequence being entered. An incorrect press keypress will reset the logic and the sequence must be re-entered from the beginning. Useful for lockboxes, puzzles etc. I'm currently using 3 variants of it in my lockbox level, each one activating a different action, based upon a different code, but all three use the same set of switches.

There have been loads of these knocking around tbh, but this one is quite different in implementation and more feature-rich and customisable than what I've seen before. Also the overall construction is rather different to anything else I've seen before.



Supports codes from 1 - 30 stages long*
Add or remove stages from the code in less than 1 minute**
Handles duplicate keypresses correctly (i.e if your code goes 1,2,2,3).
No time limits on each keypress or on the code in full***.
Very fast switching (I’m gonna say 0.2s, but it might be 0.1)
Thermo usage is minimal as number of stages goes up.
Latches into final stage – input and reset signals are disabled.
Can output a signal at each stage, for progress lights etc (optional).
Can output a directional signal on incorrect input (optional).
Automatic reset to initial stage on incorrect input (optional).
External / manual reset (optional).


* There is no reason why this can’t be extended further, I just thought 30 stages was more than enough :p
** Probably, if you know what you are doing.
*** I’m pretty sure time limits can be incorporated as a timer looping back into the external reset without too much fuss.

Go to my lockbox (psn rtm223, level name rtm’s lockbox) and use the following code:

B-B-G-O-Y-R-R-Y-W-P-B

Where:
B=Blue
G=Green
O=orange
Y=Yellow
R=Red
W=White
P=pink

Ignore the lights. Or don't, it's up to you, but don't say I didn't warn you.

The black grab switch is wired into external reset, so if you get lost with the code you can grab that and start from scratch. That will give you the key to a copyable level with the tool in it.



This is the basic structure of the system. It's moderately complex but not too bad, and almost all of the complexity is removed if you don't want all of the optional features:
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=668&stc=1&d=1245146802


Then for each input in the sequence one of these blocks needs to be inserted (the emitter just emits a key on a square of dark matter, and the mag switch is optional. The simplicity of the "per-input" sections is how I've achieved the quick modification and low thermo for high numbers of inputs.
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=669&stc=1&d=1245146802


This is a complete 5-stage system:
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=667&stc=1&d=1245146802


I'm still working out how to describe how the whole thing works and how to customise the optional features - it's proving to be more difficult than making it in the first place I think. Feel free to have a play with it in the meantime.


The basic principle is to emit a "blocker" piece of darkmatter at each correct input, limiting the movement of the polystyrene block. As this is set to max one at a time, each new blocker removes the old blocker:
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=666&stc=1&d=1245146802



Thanks to DCF for giving me a simpler initialiser system than the MESS that I was planning to use - was causing me quite a headache!

dcf
06-18-2009, 12:03 PM
Which part did I help with? I'd never know if you hadn't said anything :)

rtm223
06-18-2009, 12:22 PM
Heh, it's a case of "emit a key based upon a prox to initialise". It's now the cornerstone of my demitter stabilisers (which I still need to publish) and as this is modified demitter tech it works here too.

As I said it's simple, but for some reason I was stumped at the time :blush:

Incinerator22
06-19-2009, 01:06 AM
Have you ever thought of the Counter Switch? I mean it looks and acts a lot different but its basically the same switch because of what you can do with it. You custimize it to activate something different each time it is pressed, until eventually it activates the "key" action.

tjb0607
06-19-2009, 05:15 AM
Have you ever thought of the Counter Switch? I mean it looks and acts a lot different but its basically the same switch because of what you can do with it. You custimize it to activate something different each time it is pressed, until eventually it activates the "key" action.

Exactly what I was thinking. You can find a video of it here (http://blip.tv/play/g5xj+th1lfRk%2Em4v). It's the one with the blocks of dissolve and the piston.

rtm223
06-19-2009, 08:51 AM
Have you ever thought of the Counter Switch? I mean it looks and acts a lot different but its basically the same switch because of what you can do with it. You custimize it to activate something different each time it is pressed, until eventually it activates the "key" action.

I think you are talking about what I would call an ordered outputs tool. This is an ordered inputs tool. It's a completely different device for completely different applications and is a whole lot more complex. This device detects a sequence of up to 30 different inputs against an expected sequence. Hence the fact you can use it for a lockbox. You wouldn't want a lockbox code with just one button now, would you? :p

As a side note, dissolve in switches is a big no-no in my book.

RAINFIRE
06-23-2009, 09:05 PM
when i see this, multiple possibilities come to mind. Such as, a complex ordered boss fight where it switches entire "stages" of that boss fight. I would assume that something like this was incorporated in the final boss fight... and you seem to have found how they did it. Bravo mate.

Cheers!

Treas
09-30-2009, 10:58 AM
As a side note, dissolve in switches is a big no-no in my book.

This question might go a little off-topic, but still I wonder why you don't like dissolve.

For one part, dissolve is, imo, the best solution for any permanent actions that do not require any kind of reset at any point.

I do mostly use dissolve in combination with emitter-based logics. Emitting dark matter connected to dissolve (the dissolve carrying a mag key, and a differently colored mag switch which lets it dissolve) can be used to create many cool devices.

As for your ordered inputs tool: Nice work! I did never find use for such a tool in my past creations, but I'm pretty sure that my possible solution would have turned out a lot less thermo-friendly and probably less creator-friendly than yours.

rtm223
09-30-2009, 11:21 AM
Off topic is fine, I think these showcase threads tend to go that way anyway :) They are about sharing techniques and ideas as much as anything, so feel free to derail mine!

Self-dissolving emitted dissolve is a different issue. I agree that is very useful and I would use that for a lot of things. One of the first things I made in LBP was a command queue where different coloured keys, on dissolve, were emitted into a pile. Each color key would do some action that would then signal back to the queue once it was done. The queue would trigger the bottom piece of dissolve to dissolve and then the next one would drop down and it's key would trigger a different action. I don't think a more elegant solution than that could be achieved without dissolve!

I don't like using dissolve normally (non-emmited) dissolve thouigh because if you trigger it accidentally and don't realise straight away you have to build from scratch, and there is no traceability because the wire that links to the dissolve is gone as well. With giant sprawling logic systems that spread across entire levels, working out exactly which one of the hundreds of mag keys was supposed to link to it is almost impossible.

Generally I'd rather use a logic system where you can reset it by moving / deleting parts in create mode (with no rewiring) - I'm too clumsy to not trigger systems by accident so it just saves a lot of time in the long run. For example, my permanent switches are mostly made out of OR gates - connect one input up and then loop the output back into the second input. If you need to reset, you just grab and move one object in create mode.

With the exception of emitted dissolve, as you say, and for making things that actually fall apart completely, I will go well out of my way to avoid using dissolve.

SPONGMONKEY56
03-05-2010, 07:09 PM
Thanks for the help man. I've been making a Key Vault anyways, but, idiot that I am, I had no idea how to do the code part. Can you do one with sticker switches? How do you clear an incorrect code that you put in, like, with a CLEAR button, and enter stuff, with an ENTER button? Just curious. PLZ PM ME.:p

rtm223
03-06-2010, 03:29 PM
Well if you are looking to use a tool like this, then comphy's level has an improved model upon the one I had to give away (I deleted my more up to date one by haxident :rolleyes:) and a tutorial that should explain things a little better. All you need to do is wire up your inputs to the emitters along the bottom. Left hand emitter is first input in the code, right hand emitter is final input in the code. You can work out the ones in between, right? :p

This will work fine with sticker switches. It just requires them to be one-shot

The external reset wil work well for a cancel button.

As for an enter button, you can just make that the last input in the sequence. Pressing enter too soon will reset as well as it would be detected as an incorrect input.

M_R_Enigma
03-07-2010, 12:02 AM
Great job RTM. It looks a lot better now than it did before. Lets try to keep this one on topic this time. :) JK.

claptonfann
03-07-2010, 07:42 AM
http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/rtm223/APhoto_1-7.jpg

Sorry mate ;) You should have expected this really though, especially after giving me prior notice.



(I deleted my more up to date one by haxident :rolleyes:)

You mean that thing? Shouldn't be too hard to re-create. Not a complicated logic rig in the first place, anyway ;D
Five switches, six connectors, three mag keys (minimum) and two moving parts comin' right up! XD

SPONGMONKEY56
03-07-2010, 09:51 AM
HOOORAAAAY!!!Thanksyousomushwhatwouldidowithoutyou !
Ahem. Sorry.

comphermc
03-07-2010, 12:54 PM
I still have the updated one that you sent me. Did you want me to send it back? I think you are then still able to edit it. On a side note, I added to that design the new lower thermo set-reset and your emitter/key overlay hack. It's much prettier now.

Sadly, when I try to add on the "carryover" (so that if you hit the first entry in the sequence sometime in the future it will reset to the second input), it didn't quite work. I can slow it down to make it work, but I don't want to. And you can't make me.

:)

Super_Dork_42
07-01-2010, 05:29 AM
Hey, I know this may not be the place to say this, and it is a huge bump, but I have invented a rotationally based story switch that is basically a multi hit switch that emits story pages, set to demit JUST before the next page is emitted. If you would like to see it, please tell me so I can put some pics of it up.

R0GUE--Elite
07-01-2010, 07:02 PM
Why don't you make a new thread in the 'Object Showcase' forum thingy. There's no point telling people about an invention in a thread that has no relevance to the invention :).

shadowsythe456732
07-05-2010, 09:17 PM
couldnt just make a rectangle with a couple emmiters on the top. each emmiter would emmit a peice of dissolve material with all the different colours of switches on it. on each unit would be all the colours of keys, and these would be set to delay switches so that way the amount of time it took for the dissolve to reach the end woudnt ruin anything. then each of these would activate a part of an and switch and in the end would activate whatever. if you messed up you could have an emmiter to emmit a key that the dissolve blocks had on them . they wont affect the other keys since they are only activated for o.1 seconds for a lifetime of 0.1 seconds and since there is a certain amount of time inbetween the periods when you can grab a switch, that would stop you from continuosly pressing the reset switch to activate lock. or just attach the grab to a delay switch and then to the emmiter.all you would need is 1 or switch, one and switch 2 delay switches, a rectangle of Dark matter and a couple blocks of dissolve material to emmit. and you could set the emmiters that emmit the blocks to 1 emmit at a time so if someone clicked green twice it would delete the old one. and if you wanted to make it red,GREEN,GREEN,orange. then just make it 2 at once.

Incinerator22
07-05-2010, 11:36 PM
couldnt just make a rectangle with a couple emmiters on the top.

You just combined horrible spelling and grammar with a limited description of what you're talking about...

shadowsythe456732
07-06-2010, 12:35 AM
FINE! "could'nt you just make a rectangle with a couple of emmiters on the top." HAPPY?? but what part are you talking about that you couldnt understand?????


all it is is a hollow rectangle of dark matter with emmiters on it. on the rectangle would be 2 key switches within the radius of a block of dissolve material that would be emmited. The block of dissolve material would have 8 colours of keys on it and one key switch set to dissolve itself. when you pressed GREEN it will emmit a certain block of dissolve material that will activate whatever switch in its way. each key switch is set to activate a delay switch that activates a part of an and switch. if the block of dissolve triggered the wrong key switch it would reset the whole system. If it set off the right one it would acivate a part of the and switch, if all where activated in the right order it would result in the activation of whatever you wanted. (doors,gates,emmiters,ect..) the reason you have delay switches attached to the keys is so that the amount of time it takes for the blocks to get to the end of the shaft wont activate the switches.

Legacy179
07-06-2010, 01:50 AM
FINE! "I couldn't just make a rectangle with a couple of emmiters on the top." HAPPY?? But what part are you talking about that you couldn't understand?????

Fixed it up for ya. I'm just a grammar Nazi I guess.:devious: But you know, you should really include more capitals and paragraphs to organize your thoughts. I think it would be fair to say that I'm not the only one who has trouble reading your posts. Every time you type a run-on sentence, a copy of Mein Kampf is sold...:frightened:

rtm223
07-06-2010, 08:57 AM
@super_dork: please do add your device to a new thread. Technically it has nothing to do with this :)

@shadowsythe456732: Without being rude, that's a highly inefficient method of producing the required behaviour. The reset alone is massive. This is one of those approaches to a problem where the initial premise ("could'nt you just make a rectangle with a couple of emmiters on the top.") sounds simple, but the actual extra logic required to make it work properly, once you think it through, is actually quite complex.

That said, I don't actually think we need this thread to be on-going right now, so I'm going to lock the thread down. If anyone needs any more info on the device I suggest you check comphy's tutorial level.