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IrNinjaBob
09-04-2008, 07:28 PM
I wanted to give the basic idea of one of the biggest projects I have planned. I was planning on keeping it to myself until release, but I think I am going to share the basic concept of it here to see what you all think. So here is a basic image I just drew up on paint. I have a detaied lyout drawn for each section in my notebook, but I don't want to give away all the ideas I had yet, so I just wanted to show the basic layout of the level.

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/9762/leveldesign1zj7.png

The whole idea behind the level is that there is this entire world floating in the middle that is spinning to the left slowly so as the player is on top of it, as they walk to the right, they will remain on top of the world. If they move too slowly, they wll fall off from the left. If they move too fast, they will fall off the right.

Now, I plan on making this world huge. And when I say huge, I mean huge. So huge you wont even be able to tell its a sphere while walking on it. It will just seem like you are walking on the surface of some world. As the level moves to the left, you will be introduced to new environments every step of the way. Each environment will have its own set of puzzles and obstacles. In this way, it will be both a puzzle level and an endurance level, considering if you don't keep up with the level you will soon start to fall of the left edge. I am going to try to make it fast enough that you won't run into the problem of moving to fast and having to wait for the world to spin more to move forward, but slow enough that you can have enough time to solve all the puzzles at your own pace.

The way it works is that the world is constantly trying to spin, but when in the starting position there is a plank sticking out on the platform stopping it from spinning (The red object shown on the map.) The pole sticking out of the planet is what gets caught on this plank. The other purpose of the pole is to stop the player from jumping right down to the end of the world. When you step on the red switch, the rotating object attached to the end of the plank will loosen, letting the plank fall and the world begin to spin. Then the player will make his way around the world. If he falls, he travels to the bottom left of the screen where he will find a switch that lowers a platform and raises him back up to the top. I am also going to have to find out a way that makes that switch also speed up the rotation of the world so it moves back into starting postition until the player can release the red switch again. I think thats most of the basic mechanics, so now let me get to the story:

So, you will start the level on the platform on the left. There, you will find a crazy scientist working on some machine. When you approach him, he will tell you that something disasterous is about to happen on the world ahead of you. When you ask him how it is possible for there to be an entire "world" ahead of you he shushes you and tells you that there is no time and that you must hurry, and insists that certain destruction is destined to fall upon this planet unless you hurry up and save it. So he puts you in this vehicle that resembles a spaceship and you go rolling down the hill and launch off onto the planet. This is when you start moving throughout all the environments. In my sketches I have the layout for each envirnoment sketched as well as most of the puzzles in them, but for the sake of this explanation I am leaving them all out. I want them to be a complete surprise for when the level is finished. But the basic order of the environments so far are like this:

You first enter this farmland with cows and such until you come across a barn. After finding your way through the barn you fall out the back into a canyon. After escaping the canyon you have to enter the forest and find a safe way out of that. Once you leave the forest you find an ocean and have to travel along the ocean floor. After leaving the ocean you find yourself on a tropical island full with active volcano. After the volcano you have to make your way across a desert. The desert is then on the border of a huge city you have to navigate through. After the city you have huge green rolling meadows with unique little obstacles there. After the fields you travel through mountains. After the mounatins there is another little foresty area, and at the end of the forest there is a mountainface with a opening to a mineshaft in the side.

This is where things get interesting. You travel into the center of this "world" and there is a surprise waiting for you inside. That surprise will have to wait until you play the level, of course, but once you complete that part you will have one final part of the level which is at the bottom right of the screen. Well, the bottom right of the screen is where you will go to get to that final part.

Anyways, just wanted to share this idea. I think the level will be a lot of fun once I am finished. Sorry I made such a long description, just wanted to share my level somehow. Can't wait to make this level, and I hope all of you will give it a try when its done.

Also, I am not sure if this will be the first level I make. I want to get it done asap, but I also want it to be really good, so I might make a few other of my level ideas first so I can get the basics of the level creator first.

Marino
09-04-2008, 07:43 PM
Reserving spot for a response... I'm a little speechless right now. :eek:

I would really like to see if this would work first before I get really excited. I know that is how the Earth works, but would it work in-game? I thought we needed to adjust gravity to walk around circles like that...

Noonian
09-04-2008, 07:49 PM
Holy Cow!...:eek:

Yay I get to play Super Mario Galaxy Little Big Planet style...:hero:

Darth_Spartan
09-04-2008, 07:57 PM
WOW, now if you can make a level that huge than this is a great idea. It sounds like a great level but not just that it sounds like a great game. It is very cool idea and it would be very cool to make a game like this that you are on a planet and going around it not knowing really, it would be cool to get to the end and realization hits you that you went around the world. great concept and I hope it works out on LBP. If not totally should be a game on it's own. I just wonder how big the levels can be, I have such great ideas and I keep trying to think of them from being small to big becaues I don't want to be stuck trying to make it small when it comes out but if they can be big than I am also ready.

aer0blue
09-04-2008, 07:58 PM
Part of this may be hard to pull off well. Say you have some blocks for a puzzle in one section... If the "world" on that part of the level is upside-down, the blocks will fall or get out of place. Same applies for whatever object you have anywhere else. Unless of course, they're "locked/nailed" down by dissolvable material, thus only "opening" the puzzle when the player touches it, or a switch or something. Not sure if you know what I mean...but yeah.

Cool idea anyways, and I DO wanna try it!! Even help, if necessary. :3

littlebiglollipop
09-04-2008, 07:59 PM
wow this is great... But dont you think the thermometer gets maxed out? that is what would happen if I'd steal this idea. :arg:


of course that would be just lame, so I wish thee good luck:p

IrNinjaBob
09-04-2008, 08:02 PM
Reserving spot for a response... I'm a little speechless right now. :eek:

I would really like to see if this would work first before I get really excited. I know that is how the Earth works, but would it work in-game? I thought we needed to adjust gravity to walk around circles like that...

Ah, I am sorry, let me apologise. Maybe I was confusing in the explanation.

I didn't mean as you walk around the world you stay on it as if the center of gravity was in the middle. Yeah I don't think that would work either. What I meant was the entire world that you see is attached to a spinning wheel so it physically spins, and while it spins to the left you walk to the right and stay on top. Kind of like when you see in cartoons when people stand on a log and walk forwards as it spins in water. It keeps spinning, and as they keep moving to the left or right they stay on top.

So half way through the level, when you are at the city section, a zoomed out view of the level will look like this:

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/7299/leveldesignstage2gj6.png

So as it spins counter-clockwise you move to the right and stay on top. The entire time, though, the "world" is spinning counter-clockwise.

I hope that makes more sense.


Part of this may be hard to pull off well. Say you have some blocks for a puzzle in one section... If the "world" on that part of the level is upside-down, the blocks will fall or get out of place. Same applies for whatever object you have anywhere else. Unless of course, they're "locked/nailed" down by dissolvable material, thus only "opening" the puzzle when the player touches it, or a switch or something. Not sure if you know what I mean...but yeah.

Cool idea anyways, and I DO wanna try it!! Even help, if necessary. :3

Yeah, I get what you are saying. This is something that has been bothering me ever since I started design on this level. The conlusion I have come to is that I just won't have anything that involves items that aren't attached to something else. I had one art of the level where I wanted to make the ground out of a bunch of little rocks, but I had to scratch it because they would just fall off when that part of the world is at the bottom.

One way I think I will make puzzles with movable objects is make the objects attacked to a rope that is connected to something that doesn't move. So you can still move the object around for the puzzle, you just can't bring it too far.

Another thing I want to see before I make this level is how dark matter works. If I can make dark matter disappear by hitting a switch I can just hold items down with dark matter until people approach the puzzle.

And a final idea I had was to make a openable box with the movable items inside.

The problem with those last two ideas is if you fall off the world and have to start over, then those boxes would already be open and those items already gone... So all the puzzles I design right now have movable items attached to a rope.

Oh, and about the thermometer filling up... Yeah, I have worried about that. But I heard that they have only filled the thermometer once, so I am hoping I don't run into that problem too fast. And if I do then I will just scale down the world a bunch. That way the same concept is still there, it will just be a little shorter.

Marino
09-04-2008, 08:10 PM
Ok, I understand it now. It seems like a massive treadmill. :arg:

I would love to help somehow, but it seems like you know what you are doing, so I'll play it when it comes out. :)

EDIT: Nothing to see here, Cartman. :p

Darth_Spartan
09-04-2008, 08:22 PM
Yeah it seems you have the level planned out great, you could still do sometime of moving objects that run off of triggers so once you get to a certain part then you have blocks that are release or something moving. I think you could pull of some cool things with triggers.

IrNinjaBob
09-04-2008, 08:25 PM
Ok, I understand it now. It seems like a massive treadmill. :arg:

I would love to help somehow, but it seems like you know what you are doing, so I'll play it when it comes out. :)

EDIT: Merge those two posts quick, I don't want Cartman to give you a deduction for double posting. :P

They are officially merged.

And for the most part I will be making this level on my own, especially because I think I am going to be using my own art for all the scenery. I am going to draw up some cows and trees and everything and then take pics of the with my PSeye.

But I would still love to accept help.

One thing i might need help on is coming up with puzzles. I have puzzles for a good portion of the map drawn out but I might need help for some of them. One of the big reasons is because it is hard to make puzzles that have practically no movable objects. Thats why I want to wait on making some of them until I am actually making the level. Then I can figure out what will work and what wont.

But I am fine with taking some help on this, especially if it will be as big as I want it to be.

But lets hold off on that until the game comes out, then a few of us can get together if anybody wants to throw in a little help here and there.

littlebiglollipop
09-04-2008, 08:28 PM
Oh, and about the thermometer filling up... Yeah, I have worried about that. But I heard that they have only filled the thermometer once, so I am hoping I don't run into that problem too fast. And if I do then I will just scale down the world a bunch. That way the same concept is still there, it will just be a little shorter.

yeah I saw that interview, but still, if you want to make it so big you cant see the 'curve of the earth' I still wonder...

IrNinjaBob
09-04-2008, 08:40 PM
yeah I saw that interview, but still, if you want to make it so big you cant see the 'curve of the earth' I still wonder...

Hehe, okay maybe not quite that big. I just meant big enough so it takes a few minutes to get through each environment, instead of just a matter of seconds.

One thing that comes to mind to me is animal crossing DS. It is to the point where you can still see a curve, but you are on a flat enough surface that it seems like you are on a world and not just standing on some large ball.

ryryryan
09-04-2008, 09:12 PM
Okay. This is officially my favourite idea so far. I HAVE to play it! Wow this is awesome haha.

Mind if i ask what your PSN is and add you?

What's your PSN? Mind if i add you? :p

EDIT: Why don't you have it so when you fall off the world you land on gas and die? And put a spawn point above this rotating world. That way there will be a bigger sense of danger.

Code1337
09-04-2008, 11:10 PM
So, you're remaking Earth? Awesome idea, but how long will it take you to make it all... O__O

12454522412412
09-04-2008, 11:11 PM
Its a cool idea... it would be cool if there was a gravity changer so that you could put the gravity in the center of the earth... like a mario galixy thing

IrNinjaBob
09-05-2008, 05:38 AM
Okay. This is officially my favourite idea so far. I HAVE to play it! Wow this is awesome haha.

Mind if i ask what your PSN is and add you?

What's your PSN? Mind if i add you? :p

EDIT: Why don't you have it so when you fall off the world you land on gas and die? And put a spawn point above this rotating world. That way there will be a bigger sense of danger.


The big issue with putting a spawn point above the world is that if the player were to just never do anything and keep falling off over and over again, the world would still be rotating and without doing any work they would get further and further through the environments. If when they fell off they had to go around and start over from the start, falling would only put them back to the beginning.

Also, keep in mind I plan on making it so it isn't a really easy thing to fall off the sides. The only time it should happen is if the player attempts to fall off himself, or he gets stuck on a puzzle for so long he falls off the left. But hopefully that shouldn't happen too often. I want it to move at a rather slow pace so people have time to finish everything without almost falling.

And having the center of gravity at different places would be awesome for so many different things on different levels, but this "world" is going to have a catch to it. Those of you who play it will find out what that catch is. I think I came up wiwth a fitting storyline for a level like this.

And I plan on making the level big, but not so big I can never finish it. Since I am sure most of my freetime after release will be spent on LBP I don't think it will take me too ridiculously long. That being said, I want to make it right and don't want to just rush through it.

ryryryan
09-05-2008, 11:24 AM
^^^ fair play... but you could give them like 2 or 3 lives to make sure that doesn't happen.

Cartoonguy
09-05-2008, 08:00 PM
I had the exact same idea but i was going to do it inside of a hollow wheel and it would be massive to hopefully get the ground somewhat flat and it rotate just like yours. If you want we could combine our efforts if not you now have some competition in the design idea.

Darth_Spartan
09-05-2008, 08:03 PM
I had the exact same idea but i was going to do it inside of a hollow wheel and it would be massive to hopefully get the ground somewhat flat and it rotate just like yours. If you want we could combine our efforts if not you now have some competition in the design idea.
Well yours soundds different because you are inside of a wheel and his would be outside of it. So I think both should be made and they are both good ideas. But yeah maybe if you work together on it you can come up with new ways to do things and improve on each others style.

IrNinjaBob
09-05-2008, 09:14 PM
^^^ fair play... but you could give them like 2 or 3 lives to make sure that doesn't happen.

That would make it a little better, but that would still mean if they got stuck on a particular puzzle to the point where they fell off the edge, when they respawn they would be spawned ahead of that puzzle, and would then just skip having to complete it altogether.

I do like your idea more than starting them back from the beginning every time they fall, but at least that way they will get to enjoy every puzzle.

I will have to experiment once the game comes out. Maybe they will have a feature where if you die it sets the level back maybe 10-20 seconds. I doubt this though, because that wouldn't really work with multiplayer. So I will mess around with my options after release.


I had the exact same idea but i was going to do it inside of a hollow wheel and it would be massive to hopefully get the ground somewhat flat and it rotate just like yours. If you want we could combine our efforts if not you now have some competition in the design idea.

That is actually a really cool idea. This has given me a pretty cool level design actually. Maybe I will draw it up later.

But yours sounds really cool. What you could even do is make it so when you go in a complete circle and reach the end there will be a whole so you can escape the rotating wheel.

Cartoonguy
09-06-2008, 02:14 AM
I was thinking of something like that as well thanks for the input though IrNinjaBob

Stix489
09-06-2008, 02:38 AM
This idea is insane! I cannot wait to play it man, really! Great job :hero:

ryryryan
09-06-2008, 12:35 PM
That would make it a little better, but that would still mean if they got stuck on a particular puzzle to the point where they fell off the edge, when they respawn they would be spawned ahead of that puzzle, and would then just skip having to complete it altogether.

I do like your idea more than starting them back from the beginning every time they fall, but at least that way they will get to enjoy every puzzle.


ah i didn't actually think of that, yeah your idea is definatly more suitable in this case!

IrNinjaBob
09-06-2008, 06:41 PM
Thanks Stix!


ah i didn't actually think of that, yeah your idea is definatly more suitable in this case!

Yeah, the big problem with my idea though is that if the sackboy is at the very end of the word and ends up falling off, he will have to start from the beginning. That shouldn't be too big of a problem if the player has already figured out and solved the puzzles, but it might get annoying if it happens over and over and over again.

So I am just going to wait for release and see what I can come up with.

SuperYuper
09-06-2008, 10:18 PM
maybe if you want to make the ground move, you can put a conveyer belt under the spot that they are walking on:confused:

Marino
09-06-2008, 10:20 PM
So I am just going to wait for release and see what I can come up with.

Did you completely forget about checkpoints? If the Sackperson falls off the World, he or she should fall in gas, die, & respawn at the last checkpoint. :)

EDIT: Nevermind. This has already been thought of. Sorry. :P

Darth_Spartan
09-06-2008, 10:26 PM
well why not have different spawn points, because if you have more than 1 person they can't respawn from the beginning unless someone can go back. so I would suggest multiple spawn areas. just make it a disadvantage to die because you will miss a bunch of bubbles. or have hidden spawns that you have to add a sticker to move a object that than shows a spawn point.

IrNinjaBob
09-07-2008, 03:57 AM
well why not have different spawn points, because if you have more than 1 person they can't respawn from the beginning unless someone can go back. so I would suggest multiple spawn areas. just make it a disadvantage to die because you will miss a bunch of bubbles. or have hidden spawns that you have to add a sticker to move a object that than shows a spawn point.

Hmm, you bring up a good point about multiplayer that completly sliped by me. If one person falls off and not the other, then that would mess everything up.

I might be able to make multiple spawn points, I just don't know how I could do it to make it work. There are pretty much two scenarios I can think of right now.

1. I make a spawn point floating above the rotating world so that when somebody falls off and dies, they respawn above it and land on top. The problem with this, as has been discussed already, is that they could be skipping huge areas of the level. I don't really want that to happen.

The other option would be to make multiple spawn points that rotate along with the world (if this is even posible.) The issue with that is if the sackboy has already reached that checkpoint, then moved further on in the level and gets stuck and falls off the left of the world, then that would mean the checkpoint has already moved too far counter-clockwise as well, and as they spawn they would just fall right into the gas.

Hmm, so that makes option 2 pretty much impossible, and option 1 is one that I just really don't like. I would rather that when people play they get to experience everything.

This will be something I have to tinker around with once the game comes out. I am glad I made this thread, this is coming up with things I need to brainstorm about and fix before I can make the level. So I thank you all, and I hope I can make a level you all enjoy.

Darth_Spartan
09-07-2008, 05:30 AM
I understand what you are saying, your ideas would be understandable in a way for a single a player. I understand you want people to play all your level but sometime as level designer you have to think of all the choices you have, and with this being multi player than I think you are going to have to make a floating spawn, the reason why is that if someone dies than they won't be playing through your level anyways and watching someone else do it. If your level is good and people like than they will play all the way through because they like it.
I would make it a competition level and people will want to keep playing to compete against other people, like a time event or something. Or how many bubbles they collect.
So I do understand your worries but think of all the problems with allowing only one spawn point. Of course it can work with just one also and it can be a honor for someone who actually makes it through and nobody else got to the end. So maybe you should do one with multiple spawns and also one with just one and so it is a honor to get through the game and making it a little harder also.