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View Full Version : 0 - 9 - 0 LED locks, and 999 LED counters



NinjaMicWZ
07-08-2009, 11:24 PM
...spin off from SeniorGhost's Valve Lock thread where me and rtm went nuts with LED's and counters.

Look for the levels -

FREE LED lock protection!

by me, both made with roughly the same objects and some slight modifcations.

and

Vault Lock/Level lock

by rtm223

I know rtm's about to make a counter with his method too, but altogether we should have the lock gamed locked down lock and key... lock stock and two smoking barrels... shut down like lockjaw... goldilocks and the three bears like... the lochness monster and such.

Zommy
07-08-2009, 11:50 PM
will check it out xD

CENTURION24
07-09-2009, 02:19 AM
For the small amout of time between you having an idea & then publishing it is amazing. Very nice object btw.

NinjaMicWZ
07-09-2009, 02:47 AM
Holy H... everyone search, you especially CENTURION, go to guneye's levels and look for "Unbelievable LED Counter" - I sent him my counters, and he reworked it into an entirely self contained box... you can add numbers to it, without even connecting anything. Somehow the number boxes communicate with each other free of connections, but it's ALL hidden right behind the size of the number grid.

I haven't see the inner workings yet, but he's supposed to send me one. Said if he gets 5 stars he'll put it on share - lol, good thinking.

PSN: guneye
Level: Unbelievable LED Counter

Unreal.

comphermc
07-09-2009, 04:47 AM
Sweet zombie Jesus - how'd he do that?

Spider-Jew
07-09-2009, 04:54 AM
sounds very interesting

rtm223
07-09-2009, 10:10 AM
You and your wordsmithery Ninja - I now can't think of any "lock" puns to add to the list! And I bet you've got a whole slew of ones you kept in reserve as well :p

So yeah, the version I have online is out of date. I managed to reduce thermo by 20% by getting rid of the piston array on the side - I found a neat little solution to that problem.

I also made my stopwatch timer which, if I do say so myself, is starting to look rather slick. I prettied up the numbers slightly, eliminated the increment ripple so that all digits that need to change update exactly on the second and all of the transitions now look smooth as. Bang on 4 bars of thermo for a 10-minute timer.

I'm going to add another update so each digit does the little flash every second, rather than just when it increments and if I can I'm going to get a decisecond indicator in there as well. Once that's done it will be truly awesome.


you can add numbers to it, without even connecting anything. Somehow the number boxes communicate with each other free of connections, but it's ALL hidden right behind the size of the number grid.
What on earth does this mean? Is there a set of numbers kept externally that it cycles through? If so... sweet zombie jesus indeed. This version does sound interesting. I think I could get mine down to 1 thin layer and one thick layer, for the whole thing and put the mechanism behind the LEDs, but it would just become impossible to work with (it nearly is already :p)

robotiod
07-09-2009, 02:53 PM
Wow this sounds really interesting i deffinately have to check it out.

rtm223
07-09-2009, 07:22 PM
So I uploaded my timer. It counts up to ten minutes then cycles. I tried making all three digits flash in synch and it just looked bad, so that's been scrapped.

Level name "LED Stopwatch / Clock", down by africa. Icon looks like:
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=752&stc=1&d=1247163646


Ninja, you should check out the digit update sychronisation I posted in the other thread:



___
TRUE -----------| |
| & |-------inc_s
clk --|___|

___
s==9 --o--------| |
| | & |-------inc_t
| clk --|___|
|
| ___
---------| |
t==5 -----------| & |-------inc_m
clk --|___|

...etc.


s is seconds,
t is tens of seconds
m is minutes
inc_x is the 1 shot to increment x


It's only makes a subtle differece, but you seem like a man who like details :) Just swap out the clock for the counter input.

BSprague
07-09-2009, 07:35 PM
Holy H... everyone search, you especially CENTURION, go to guneye's levels and look for "Unbelievable LED Counter" - I sent him my counters, and he reworked it into an entirely self contained box... you can add numbers to it, without even connecting anything. Somehow the number boxes communicate with each other free of connections, but it's ALL hidden right behind the size of the number grid.

I haven't see the inner workings yet, but he's supposed to send me one. Said if he gets 5 stars he'll put it on share - lol, good thinking.

PSN: guneye
Level: Unbelievable LED Counter

Unreal.
There is no realistic way you can just drop another box on the end to make it more digits, you need to connect at least one wire. The only way would be to have an emitter drop something into the next box over, but then you would need them all to be lined up exactly like that. I'm going to assume there is one wire that you connect from box to box to make it count up the next digit.

rtm223
07-09-2009, 07:41 PM
SO that's what he meant by adding digits. Well yeah that's just gonna be a case of a key or something on the lefthand side to indicate rollover. Have a switch on the RHS. Decouple the connection that way. Thats not too difficult.

In fact the timer key is what would be emitted to indicate rollover, assuming he is mimicking ninjas mechanic. Each digit just "looks" over to the right for it's timer.

Shrinking the whole mess down to that small a size is the very very impressive part. As I said I think I could do it with mine, but it'd be nasty and I'd probably give up halfway through...

deboerdave
07-09-2009, 07:59 PM
hey ninja i saw your lock yesterday, pretty cool. I noticed the threeway switch but the numbers always increase no matter which way i pulled it. You probably noticed this as well. Anyways have you thought about making it go in both directions.

NinjaMicWZ
07-09-2009, 08:36 PM
I've got one that goes both directions, but it just cycles through manually and is a pain to stop on numbers. The mag key that turns on the wheel activates a "power" switch which just tells it to turn for a split second. If I had it on directional, it would reset every time the key goes away. There probably is an awesome way to do it though.


There is no realistic way you can just drop another box on the end to make it more digits, you need to connect at least one wire. The only way would be to have an emitter drop something into the next box over, but then you would need them all to be lined up exactly like that. I'm going to assume there is one wire that you connect from box to box to make it count up the next digit.

I dunno. I haven't checked it out yet, but his wording was that they talk to each other. If it works how I think it does than number grids tell other number grids what number they should be on.

comphermc
07-09-2009, 11:24 PM
Unfortunately, his rating dropped below 5 stars (for stupid people who don't understand the complexity of it). I don't think we'll ever get to see it :( lol.

BSprague
07-10-2009, 12:49 AM
I've got one that goes both directions, but it just cycles through manually and is a pain to stop on numbers. The mag key that turns on the wheel activates a "power" switch which just tells it to turn for a split second. If I had it on directional, it would reset every time the key goes away. There probably is an awesome way to do it though.



I dunno. I haven't checked it out yet, but his wording was that they talk to each other. If it works how I think it does than number grids tell other number grids what number they should be on.

Here is how I think it is implemented if you can just drop boxes next to each other.


xxx
xxx = LED Box
xxx

o = Emitter

< and > = Directions

So it has to work with emitting if the entire structure is enclosed.

Each box looks like this:

xxx
xox
xxx

When it is on 9 and someone presses the trigger again, it emits some sort of object with a magnetic key on it to the left of it, and then changes back to 0.

xxx xxx
x0x < x0x
xxx xxx

This means that each box has two means of input, user and from other boxes. They may filter into the same method (ex: the grab switch is linked to an emitter that does the same thing) or it may just be two totally different things.

But then this would mean something else. This means if someone dares to go to 999 and hit it again, something will drop beside the last box, unless they configured it to only send if there was a box next to it, which is really only the matter of a magnetic key switch aimed in that direction.


If anyone feels like counting to 999 on it, it may show what I'm explaining, and if not, they implemented an AND switch to make sure that there was a box next to it before counting up a new digit.

rtm223
07-10-2009, 01:22 AM
Alternatively, the user input emmits on the right hand edge of the device and the ripple output to the next one emmits on the left hand edge. (like just insde the edge, so it's invisible).

The number just looks to it's right in such a way that it would pick up either input.

You would still need to disable the user input on all but the least-significant digit. Or there is a user input component.

TBH I can decouple inputs with no hassle, I just wanna know how the mechinism is made so small and reliable...

I really should be using my create time for other things, but I feel like I have to try and reproduce it :(

BSprague
07-10-2009, 01:32 AM
Alternatively, the user input emmits on the right hand edge of the device and the ripple output to the next one emmits on the left hand edge. (like just insde the edge, so it's invisible).

The number just looks to it's right in such a way that it would pick up either input.

You would still need to disable the user input on all but the least-significant digit. Or there is a user input component.

TBH I can decouple inputs with no hassle, I just wanna know how the mechinism is made so small and reliable...

I really should be using my create time for other things, but I feel like I have to try and reproduce it :(
I wouldn't worry about it, it probably looks like a big mess anyways. I could make my entire LittleBigMemory mechanism fit into a 5x5 big grid box, but it would be impossible to edit and a mess to look at.

NinjaMicWZ
07-10-2009, 05:55 AM
I have one of his LED boxes... but there's nothing attached to whatever controls it, so it just emits a key and keeps flashing continuously. I can only take it apart using dissolve material, since it's non-shareable for some reason...

:/ @ me giving him a locked/copyable version of my counter, but he gave me a non-shareable single digit in return

I can recapture and send one of you guys the block he sent me, to examine, but it doesn't seem to be all that open to interpretation in the state it's in.

He also republished the level with a new thin-material version of it, that's even better on therm (like literally a blip of therm)... uses flashing Little Big Calculator style number cards. Someone keeps 1 starring the level as soon as he publishes it though.

EDIT: I made one, using my wheels. Entirely self contained in the area of one LCD number, hidden behind it. Less relay inputs, next one triggers the next one, just copy the left-most number and add it in next to it, and it automatically detects it to cycle over on every turn that lands on 0 for the preceding digit.

Not the same design, not as therm light, I think, but at least I managed to adapt what I have with only 10 minutes of work. I'm going to publish it in the Lock level for anyone who wants it. I think I'm going to try and combine all these into one level, since I can't forego two spots like this.

Morgana25
07-10-2009, 06:05 PM
Checked it out last night and your braininess continues to amaze :) I have no idea what I'd use the timer for but it's a great idea and the lock looks/works fantastic! Thanks for sharing them!

NinjaMicWZ
07-10-2009, 07:47 PM
I actually really wish I could fit one into Free At Last, so people could keep track of how long they've been playing, or at least see how long it took them to finish... without the math of a race gate countdown involved.

For future uses, I can see it in a survival level, to indicate various stages (every 100 seconds or something), or again see how long you're lasting... and I keep having the idea in my head to mount it on a following mechanism for something. I would even like seeing super miniature counters on awesome time bombs like in AAAlone's "Nerves of Steel" level. I just hate that I never have room for stuff like this when it comes down to the crunch of choosing between allotted play time and superfluous cool stuff.

If I can possibly be arsed to do it, and don't feel to daunted by it, I'd like to make an LED smiley face that does a few different things... or spell out words for someone's level intro, if they ever needed one. I think I should make an 26 sided alphabet wheel next.

rtm223
07-10-2009, 08:02 PM
I can see it in a survival level, to indicate various stages (every 100 seconds or something), or again see how long you're lasting...

That's exactly why I started on this, the Lock thing was just a sidetrack. But the concept in question clearly isn't going to leave me with 4 bars of thermo to play with for funkiness anyway :(

I have all the mechanisms in place to create a smooth scrolling text banner though, so that might happen when I get bored

Morgana25
07-10-2009, 08:07 PM
If I can possibly be arsed to do it, and don't feel to daunted by it, I'd like to make an LED smiley face that does a few different things... or spell out words for someone's level intro, if they ever needed one. I think I should make an 26 sided alphabet wheel next.

Like one of those tickers in airports or lotto counters? The ones that side scroll through letters.... now THAT would be impressive!

NinjaMicWZ
07-10-2009, 11:25 PM
I built an alphabet wheel, and counter (lol @ terminology) for it... well half of one. I have the entire letter set (and ? and ! for spacing purposes) built, the letter, switch, and LED grids are designed in 5 x 8 grids... but I can only get everything line up perfectly up til the letter T, then I seem to have the letters off by a millimeter no matter what. Took me 30 minutes or so just to realign the letter S - gonna take a break on my ABC machine for a bit here.

Thought maybe I could make an educational level out of it, where each letter will trigger the LED and also emit a simple sticker word and picture example for the starting letter for every stop. I'm sure if we had thermometer space, rtm could make these things perform algebraic computations.

BSprague
07-11-2009, 12:06 AM
I built an alphabet wheel, and counter (lol @ terminology) for it... well half of one. I have the entire letter set (and ? and ! for spacing purposes) built, the letter, switch, and LED grids are designed in 5 x 8 grids... but I can only get everything line up perfectly up til the letter T, then I seem to have the letters off by a millimeter no matter what. Took me 30 minutes or so just to realign the letter S - gonna take a break on my ABC machine for a bit here.

Thought maybe I could make an educational level out of it, where each letter will trigger the LED and also emit a simple sticker word and picture example for the starting letter for every stop. I'm sure if we had thermometer space, rtm could make these things perform algebraic computations.
That's an interesting concept, if you need any help with aligning the whole thing, I might be able to lend a (hopefully) helping hand. This kind of thing is right up my alley. :)

Dak393
07-11-2009, 05:29 AM
darn I gave the self contained timer a 5 but its still at 4 :( . couldn't he just have a magnet switch that tells the box to the left to increase 1 digit?

BSprague
07-11-2009, 11:53 AM
darn I gave the self contained timer a 5 but its still at 4 :( . couldn't he just have a magnet switch that tells the box to the left to increase 1 digit?

Yes but it would have to be on a piston that moves over just enough to trigger the next box while being self-contained. Or it could use the previously detailed emitter approach.

tjb0607
07-11-2009, 08:49 PM
Thanks dude! It REALLY helped make this (http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=237213) level more secure.

rtm223
07-12-2009, 12:29 AM
I'm sure if we had thermometer space, rtm could make these things perform algebraic computations.

I had this idea, a while back, about making a CPU in LBP. Probably an 8-bit ALU with Add / Subtract / multiply / some bitwise logic with some local registers and able to compute a stored program. I decided it was a waste of time tbh. I know I can design such things and doing it in LBP woudn't actually gain me anything. It sounds like BSprague is you man for this project, if you decide to go for it :)

Incinerator22
07-12-2009, 05:48 PM
I've made a low-thermo 1-100 led logic counter and no one cares but you people are making simple switches and are worshipped as gods lol

Incinerator22
07-12-2009, 05:50 PM
ok im exxagerating but I can't play those levels because I'm on a train to Florida so can someone describe the levels?

comphermc
07-12-2009, 08:48 PM
I've made a low-thermo 1-100 led logic counter and no one cares but you people are making simple switches and are worshipped as gods lol

??

These "simple switches" are fairly complicated. And this is a 0 - 999 logic counter, so I'm not sure what you are getting at. What it's counting is the number of inputs, whether it be grab switches, button hits, or a timed cyclic input (so it serves as an led clock). What makes these simple?

To describe them to you, Ninja's design is a counter which when triggered will start counting up by one every second - hence a clock. I was able to reverse it all and it became a countdown timer. The design that rtm made was a bit "neater" but it served the same purpose and had a smooth rollover with the higher digits (Ninja's model had a slight delay in the tens and hundreds place when a zero rolled over). Also, rtm's model was broken into minutes and seconds, while Ninja's model was in seconds only (but went up to three digits). They both work just fine - I am actually using Ninja's model in a timed key room...

Enjoy the train ride.

NinjaMicWZ
07-12-2009, 09:42 PM
Foolish mortal.

obsoleteXeo
07-13-2009, 01:29 AM
This thing is badass. Love the newest tweaks with the sounds and the way it responds so smoothly.

I'll push you to make a level with it, Ninja.

NinjaMicWZ
07-13-2009, 02:37 AM
I may eventually find a use for it... I rarely have an y use for the things I build in demo's like this. I'm not really a super-logic head, and don't even know half the names of different logic boxes since I don't read the tutorial essays, but I'm handy with it - I specialize more in creative solutions for applied logic ie: making what I'm building in a full level work how I want it to. Most of the stuff I've built doesn't have any traditional names, and in the end, all logic based systems are built off a few basics.

I rarely have room for anything like this - same goes for fancy logo-based intros with my name in flashing lights, because the thermometer is jam packed with detail and interactive play areas. All I can do is keep finding ways to milk it for the last drop, but I doubt any of us will ever be happy with the limits of 1 thermometer. I don't mind giving anything away, like this, since I know I'll probably never use it, and it's just a variation of what's already out there/something anybody can build on their own.

obsoleteXeo
07-13-2009, 02:59 AM
The level "Starcruiser" comes to mind when I think what you can do with the LED counter.

I have ideas myself, but I'm preoccupied with my project lol.

I think if you really wanted to, Ninja, you could make a fantastic level with it.

comphermc
07-13-2009, 03:07 AM
I may eventually find a use for it... I rarely have an y use for the things I build in demo's like this. I'm not really a super-logic head, and don't even know half the names of different logic boxes since I don't read the tutorial essays, but I'm handy with it - I specialize more in creative solutions for applied logic ie: making what I'm building in a full level work how I want it to. Most of the stuff I've built doesn't have any traditional names, and in the end, all logic based systems are built off a few basics.

I use the exact same methods, lol. Now, rtm on the other hand, he really just likes to make things work for the sake of it, ha ha. I do appreciate this device, though, as I've used in my key level. It's really there for unnecessary detail though, so whatever...

rtm223
07-13-2009, 09:51 AM
Now come on, that's not fair, especially coming from the guy who spent all weekend making toggle switch variants for the fun of it. :p

Most of what I make, even the weird/fancy stuff, is for some specific purpose - demitters I needed, wheeley good switches were born from a very specific gameplay mechanic, LED counter was because I wanted a visual timer... though in this case it's going to be too thermo intensive to be practical, even down to 4 bars it's hard to justify such a thing.

And in fairness Ninja "creative solutions for applied logic" is what it's really all about; you could learn all the names of components, it doesn't mean anything. If you don't have the abstract creative skills to turn a complex problem into a logical solution, you're never going to get anywhere. You clearly have those skills naturally, so not having more formal knowledge isn't really going to hold you back at all.

comphermc
07-13-2009, 01:37 PM
Now come on, that's not fair, especially coming from the guy who spent all weekend making toggle switch variants for the fun of it. :p

Touche.


Most of what I make, even the weird/fancy stuff, is for some specific purpose - demitters I needed, wheeley good switches were born from a very specific gameplay mechanic, LED counter was because I wanted a visual timer... though in this case it's going to be too thermo intensive to be practical, even down to 4 bars it's hard to justify such a thing.

And in fairness Ninja "creative solutions for applied logic" is what it's really all about; you could learn all the names of components, it doesn't mean anything. If you don't have the abstract creative skills to turn a complex problem into a logical solution, you're never going to get anywhere. You clearly have those skills naturally, so not having more formal knowledge isn't really going to hold you back at all.

Good points. It's tough to get people excited about using logic if they don't see the solutions themselves. Hence, it makes my happy that we're working on a way to bring logic to the masses!

qrtda235566
07-13-2009, 08:54 PM
I still don't understand the need for locks when you can just lock the level.

BSprague
07-13-2009, 08:58 PM
I still don't understand the need for locks when you can just lock the level.

If you want to send a key to someone, they need to be your friend. Imagine having a beta with 150 people. You can't even make them all your friends, I believe the limit is 100. Anyway, the easiest thing to do is make a lock room with the key in it, and then send all 150 people the combination.

qrtda235566
07-14-2009, 05:11 AM
If you want to send a key to someone, they need to be your friend. Imagine having a beta with 150 people. You can't even make them all your friends, I believe the limit is 100. Anyway, the easiest thing to do is make a lock room with the key in it, and then send all 150 people the combination.

Why not just let everyone in the beta?

rtm223
07-14-2009, 08:49 AM
Because I don't want to... TBH if I run a beta I want < 5 people in there, who can give me constructive feedback, prior to a proper release. If it's released to everyone then it's not really a beta. And I really don't want to have to add them as PSN friends if they aren't already. I'll just give them a code and they can collect one of the many keys from my lockbox. Ditto if I'm giving out contraptions to people on this site, I don't wanna just make it an unlocked copyable level, I want it locked. So I add another code to the lockbox and everything is easier. I have too many PSN friends, it's an annoyance already.

Also, if you read the descriptions, these are just generic visual counting devices. Plus they look frikkin' sweet :)