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mistervista
07-18-2009, 03:33 PM
My friend Bakscratch has just shown me another of those layer glitches he's found.

I'm not normally a fan of glitches as I have enough trouble with normal stuff but this one could be really useful where you need a background but can't do it the normal way because you have taken up the back layer with an object.

Now for the BIG news. If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes I would never have believed it. Take a look at this photo and tell me if you're not blown away as I was :

http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss273/specialagent_01/LittleBigPlanet/Bakscratchsextralayers.jpg

Yes that's 11 layers there !!!

He is publishing a level next week sometime with probably 10 layers. He says it does become a bit awkward to manipulate them with any more than that because you can't overlap the extra layers. You can resize and reshape them though and I can see this being useful for making some awesome backgrounds.

Can you imagine making a cave for instance with stalactites and stalagmites on all the extra layers making it look like the cave went way back !

I'm sure some of the clever creators could make some awesome optical illusions. Not me though , I'm not that good. I Look forward to seeing what can be done though.

He's actually been able to produce 50 ( yes 50 !! ) layers and says more are possible but they go foggy the further back they are.

Anyway look out for it next week.

PSN : Bakscratch
Level title : ( working title ) Introducing new layers

Dexiro
07-18-2009, 03:55 PM
Wow that's awesome xD

Will he tell us how to do it? :p

mistervista
07-18-2009, 04:00 PM
I don't know but not straight away probably. I asked him and he just told me 'MAGIC'. LOL. Can't blame him for wanting to keep it under wraps for a while but you can always ask him with a PM. You never know.

bakscratch
07-18-2009, 04:29 PM
Hay Mr.Vista, Thanks for posting this for me. it realy does work if you go to my lvl : Lots more layers, you can see your self. also i published a little challenge called: Name it. that uses this "glitch".

Jrange378
07-18-2009, 05:07 PM
Yes this would help good creators to make some great things, if you could tell us how to do it.:(

Takelow
07-18-2009, 05:16 PM
Interesting!

At the first look, i thought it was an optical illusion or something like this. But i will take a look to this level asap!

Zwollie
07-18-2009, 05:24 PM
This is the bug I've been looking for all my life. Come here my little precious bug so I can kiss ya!! :D

I'm gonna check this out ASAP!!

I've always created fake perspective with stickers until now, You gotta let us in on your secret dude!!

Ps: I am correct when I say you can't walk or interact with the extra layers right?

BlackToof
07-18-2009, 05:31 PM
Ps: I am correct when I say you can't walk or interact with the extra layers right?

Correct

8910

springs86
07-18-2009, 05:42 PM
That looks epic, does making those have any affect on thhe game/PS3? just asking :p

Dexiro
07-18-2009, 05:44 PM
I'm not too bothered that you can't walk on the new layers :p

It'd be great for custom backgrounds though, assuming the extra layers affect the thermo the best ones might not be practical

You could hide messages 50 layers into the background :)

Mother-Misty
07-18-2009, 05:58 PM
This looks great, gonna be fantastic for custom backgrounds!
Is that big "50" in the more-layers level, layer nr.50?
WOW :)

misty.

bakscratch
07-18-2009, 06:38 PM
Hay, Heres a few things to tell you. You cant walk on them You can use any material You cant put on in front of each other e.g. 4th in front of 5th You can emitt object on to the layers (The object you emitt must be on the layer you want) If have any other question message my PSN which is :Bakscratch P.S if any one have any background designs send me a message with the idear. :)

Leonardo
07-18-2009, 07:09 PM
Don't publish it...
MM's gonna fix it, I bet.

Morgana25
07-18-2009, 08:10 PM
Just so I'm clear - you can't put them in front of each other (e.g. 4th in front of 5th) but you can layer them like 4th in front of 6th or 1st in front of 5th... right?

NinjaMicWZ
07-18-2009, 08:19 PM
I will definitely be picking these up. I've been working with the first one's that came out from the original glitch level posted on here way back, that can't be manipulated, and have been meaning to pick some more malleable thin layers.

Thanks bakscratch, someone let me know as soon as it comes out... and for sure, mistervista, it's all about parallax.

Silverleon
07-18-2009, 08:29 PM
This would also do a nice addititon to the "Glitched Central" i'm working on.
(it is copyable right?)

Leather-Monkey
07-18-2009, 08:32 PM
And how did you work that out!?! Nice one! Please explain it though :)

comphermc
07-18-2009, 10:05 PM
Wait, so how is this done? lol.

But seriously, I would like to know. It would be nice to add detail, etc. in behind the back layer (custom backgrounds, and so forth).

Or is it going to be kept a secret forever...?

BSprague
07-18-2009, 11:11 PM
It seems like it would be hard to work with, but this would be a perfect work around for a level I'm working on. It's like the Checkpoint/Golfball layer glitch, but ramped up. Great job on finding this Bakscratch. :)

springs86
07-19-2009, 12:29 AM
lol, i just spent ages in create mode trying to figure out how to do this, but still nothing, that's real magic there :p

Burnvictim42
07-19-2009, 05:21 AM
thats fricking amazing o.o Especially waht you did with the 50- its almost like making your own background for a level without using any layers!

IceMaiden
07-19-2009, 09:40 AM
Spooky! Need to see that again!

Lady_Luck__777
07-19-2009, 05:11 PM
This was really cool. I hope you let us know how its done. I would love to play with this to try and create custom backgrounds. Great find.:D

Jagrevi
07-20-2009, 03:18 AM
If people are going to experiment to try to recreate what they did, the first thing I'd try would capture an emitter emitting something layers behind it and having THAT be emitted.

Perhaps when the emitted emitter is emitted the program doesn't reconfigure the relative position of the thing IT emits compared to the position of the emitter.

... just what I immediately thought of when he/she brought up the word "emitters".

That's just a first/obvious guess though, I could easily be wrong or missing an element.

comphermc
07-20-2009, 03:47 AM
If people are going to experiment to try to recreate what they did, the first thing I'd try would capture an emitter emitting something layers behind it and having THAT be emitted.

Perhaps when the emitted emitter is emitted the program doesn't reconfigure the relative position of the thing IT emits compared to the position of the emitter.

... just what I immediately thought of when he/she brought up the word "emitters".

That's just a first/obvious guess though, I could easily be wrong or missing an element.

Ooh, I think you may be onto something.

Morgana25
07-20-2009, 10:37 PM
So wait - let me see if I understand this emitting theory - if you have an emitter spitting out one block on the very back layer, then you capure that and have another emitter emit the original emitter, then capture that and so on and so on, the number of levels you can go back will be one less than the total number of emitters you have being emitted....... right?

brnxblze
07-20-2009, 10:44 PM
Whoa WTH?! I'd love to see what some of these LBP artists can do with all those layers. Imagine using all those layers to decorate.

Jagrevi
07-20-2009, 11:11 PM
So wait - let me see if I understand this emitting theory - if you have an emitter spitting out one block on the very back layer, then you capure that and have another emitter emit the original emitter, then capture that and so on and so on, the number of levels you can go back will be one less than the total number of emitters you have being emitted....... right?

It's not really a theory yet, just a hypothesis.

Also, if I happen to be on the right track, I could easily be missing an element.

Then again, maybe that's the whole thing right there ... I haven't gone into create mode since reading this thread.

springs86
07-20-2009, 11:24 PM
LoL, i'm trying this

goldenclaw13
07-20-2009, 11:33 PM
I'm afraid that Jagrevi's 'hypothesis' doesn't work.

Super short answer: I tried, doesn't work :p

Short answer: An object emitted will always be emitted in its layer defined by the emitter.

Longer answer: While the direction of the object emitted is relevant to the emitter itself, this is not true with layers. For example, If you place an emitter to emit a block right above the emitter, It will always be emitted above the emitter, wherever the emitter is. While, making an emitter emit a block one layer back, and moving the emitter back a layer, will still create the block on the same layer it was defined.

Hope one of the explanations above helped :p

springs86
07-21-2009, 12:17 AM
'tis true :( i tried but never posting back here in time, oh well

rtm223
07-21-2009, 12:35 AM
making an emitter emit a block one layer back, and moving the emitter back a layer, will still create the block on the same layer it was defined.

You might wanna go try that again.

The layer you set an emitter to emit on is relative to the layer the emitter is on. Moving the emitter backwards does move the emitted object's layer backwards as well. It just won't let it go further back than the standard back layer. So the theory still doesn't work, just not for exactly the reason you said.

As jagrevi says, there might just be one little thing missing. I don't care enough to search for it though :p

Jagrevi
07-21-2009, 01:32 AM
Candidate for either the missing element or the primary element itself...

Interaction with MM Objects.

I've noticed that where you are able to place an emitter is relatively rigidly defined in space. For example, I cannot place an emitter on the side of a square of cardboard that I make, it has to be on the side facing the screen.

I did also notice one place this does not appear to be the case, however. The program seems to allow me to place emitters on MM created objects, such as the Sombrero. Placing an emitter on an MM object does allow you to define for them a location in space that is much more irregular. Perhaps wherever the hole in the intended programming is, it is related to these objects. If these emitters don't fall neatly into layers when on MM Objects, does the program compensate for every possible movement and/or re-emission of these emitters?

Anyways, just some thoughts off the top of my head.

lk9988
07-22-2009, 07:06 PM
Well, first thing, best glitch in a game EVER!!!!11!!! (well, in my opinion of course:p) You could make some serious cool visual effects, backgrounds, and optical illusions with this glitch.

Recurracy
07-23-2009, 12:08 PM
HOLY COW this is awesome! My little brother wanted me to see this level and I was all like 'OH MY GOD, just how did he do that!?'

Are you gonna tell us? Keeping this a secret forever would be cruel.

Also... LET US HAVE THIS GLITCH MM!! D: We want to make more intriguing backgrounds by ourselves!

BSprague
07-24-2009, 11:51 PM
I just played the level. Layers back all the way to 50 would be great for backgrounds, as they have much lower movement coefficients than normal objects. For example, putting a giant moon in the sky in layer 50 would create a very realistic effect. Amazing work on that.

The boxes are kind of glitchy though, they do break randomly and you can't box select them. The layer 50 object is invisible for me in Create Mode as well.

warlord_evil
07-25-2009, 12:06 AM
I just played the level. Layers back all the way to 50 would be great for backgrounds, as they have much lower movement coefficients than normal objects. For example, putting a giant moon in the sky in layer 50 would create a very realistic effect. Amazing work on that.

The boxes are kind of glitchy though, they do break randomly and you can't box select them. The layer 50 object is invisible for me in Create Mode as well.

I got the items from the level too, I found out you should turn down the fog to see the layers in the back better. And I also found that turning the camera on to the front view mode would allow you to select objects back in the 50th layer.

The 4th layer to the 50th layer all collide with each other, and they collide with any thin layers on the normal back layer.

NinjaMicWZ
07-25-2009, 06:35 AM
I got the items from the level too, I found out you should turn down the fog to see the layers in the back better. And I also found that turning the camera on to the front view mode would allow you to select objects back in the 50th layer.

The 4th layer to the 50th layer all collide with each other, and they collide with any thin layers on the normal back layer.


Ah that sucks... it'll still be amazing if you build boxes within boxes and corner edit them to snug fits, but I was banking on the idea that you could use all 7 regular layers, and still be able to have an infinite moving background for example. I've had plenty of 7 layer vehicles that have prevented me from doing much with the background, and this was supposed to be my miracle cure.

Still awesome though. I'm gonna have to pick these up right now, now that it's available.

EDIT: nm, can't corner edit them, or smear them either. Oh well.

I've been playing with them, and they seem to break unless they're glued to the objects in front of them, for me anyway.

Burnvictim42
07-25-2009, 07:39 AM
I played with them a bit, i thought it was rather nice that he shared this with us. You can make your own shapes in the "back" layers by selecting a material you want to use, using the "change material" tool under that materials menu to change the layer you want to edit, then place a shape of the material right next to the block. So far i can't edit any of the back layers without changing the material first.

Crashdance22
07-25-2009, 06:51 PM
Does anyone have an idea as to how thi766 added layers in the foreground? I can do the background myself but materials don't seem to want to move to the forelayer.

BasketSnake
07-25-2009, 10:18 PM
It's a cool glitch. I entered the level and checked it out but personally I'm not interested. I have enough work to struggle with on my three layers.

baahas
07-25-2009, 10:19 PM
You can make levels with this glitch now. I'm off to make one :)

Zwollie
07-25-2009, 10:30 PM
It is a big door that has been opened for us if the glitch stays.
We've been so used to working in the 3 layers that it will take some time to adjust and realise all the new possibilities we have in store.

DanC
07-25-2009, 10:37 PM
I'm afraid this is very, very unlikely to stay. It such a large exploit in the game that MM are bound to patch it up.
However, it is a very cool glitch and has many possibilities.

Sorry to bring everyone down. >.<

goldenclaw13
07-25-2009, 10:58 PM
Good news! I recently played a level, can't remember the name, but it was by someone with "Thi" in the name, and the some numbers after it...

But, it shows an example of a LOT of layers, behind and in front of the usual layers we have to use.

At the end of the level, he gives out two prizes: A cardboard block that stretches 11 or so layers back, and one the stretches 11 or so layers forward!

It's really cool, I made a short little level with lots of background decorations :)

I will try to rename the level and author, I favorited the level :)

baahas
07-25-2009, 11:35 PM
I'm trying to make a level using up to 10 layers. It is going to take some time though :(. However its looking good so far :)

Crashdance22
07-26-2009, 12:43 AM
Good news! I recently played a level, can't remember the name, but it was by someone with "Thi" in the name, and the some numbers after it...

Here ya go. (http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14183) ;)

And nevermind my question about the layers in front since we all know now.

mass_gamer
07-26-2009, 01:04 AM
I am most definitely looking forward to an explanation or a level Bakscratch! I will be checking back for any updates on the glitch. Thanks for finding it!

warlord_evil
07-26-2009, 01:27 AM
I'm afraid this is very, very unlikely to stay. It such a large exploit in the game that MM are bound to patch it up.
However, it is a very cool glitch and has many possibilities.

Sorry to bring everyone down. >.<

We should all try to use the glitch while we can, before it gets patched.

baahas
07-26-2009, 01:56 AM
I wonder if backscratch can make it for the front layers as well. And I mean the cascade not the block you get from the other guys level.

Crashdance22
07-26-2009, 02:23 AM
But can you move individual blocks in the cascading object, edit them, etc.? Or are they all tied together?

baahas
07-26-2009, 05:56 AM
You can move the individual blocks.;) Currently for the foreground there is just one big rectangle block instead of cascading blocks like they are for the background. The means you can't really put any objects in the foreground without it appearing in the regular 3 layers. In other words you can't put anything in the foreground except for a floor. :(.

DrunkenFist_Lee
07-26-2009, 07:10 AM
This is great!!!!!

Adam9001
07-26-2009, 10:30 AM
Guys... Capture all the layers sepratly, this is 100% going to be patched.

Oh though we can:
delete the game data (not the save data). and don't download/install any updates, you can still do the glitches offline.

ARD
07-26-2009, 10:58 AM
Bak showed me this a while ago. It is pretty cool, but you can only stand on the normal 3 layers. Still, it would be useful for making cool looking stuff or hiding logic behind the level.
He did tell me how to do it, but I failed.

GruntosUK
07-26-2009, 12:43 PM
It looks very cool I will admit. My fear is starting a level and then MM patching it and me losing whatever I've done without deleting data etc etc.

BlackToof
07-26-2009, 01:37 PM
I tried to have a fiddle with this.
I went onto bakscratches level and got the objects.

When i used them i could change the material but i couldnt use the corner editor.
It might have been because they were copyrighted.

So my attempt to give them a go failed.

Zwollie
07-26-2009, 02:15 PM
It looks very cool I will admit. My fear is starting a level and then MM patching it and me losing whatever I've done without deleting data etc etc.

Same here, that's why besides some experimentation I'm leaving it out of my level design for the moment until we know more.

jump_button
07-26-2009, 06:58 PM
It looks very cool I will admit. My fear is starting a level and then MM patching it and me losing whatever I've done without deleting data etc etc.

I hope not I just use this on my sky town :s *worrys*

KoRnDawwg
07-26-2009, 07:28 PM
Epic win



This is the glitch of all glitches. One can make some seeeeeeriously cool **** with this, awesome find!

Leonardo
07-26-2009, 07:29 PM
Still figuring how to do it... D:

mass_gamer
07-26-2009, 07:45 PM
I forgot! It doesn't matter if Mm patches it, just follow what the other guy said. Either cancel the patches, work offline, or reinstall the game without patching anything. It might take some features away, but we still have our glitches!

Silverleon
07-26-2009, 07:59 PM
I tried to have a fiddle with this.
I went onto bakscratches level and got the objects.

When i used them i could change the material but i couldnt use the corner editor.
It might have been because they were copyrighted.

So my attempt to give them a go failed.


Same here, that's why besides some experimentation I'm leaving it out of my level design for the moment until we know more.

I think if you select one of the blocks in the extra layers, then while stil selected (glowing) go to your popit, select a material, and when you place it its gonna be in the layer of the block you selected it. :)

comphermc
07-26-2009, 08:01 PM
^ Yes, that is right, but you need to first change the material for some reason (apparently). It doesn't always work, but just keep trying until it does.

zekeike
07-26-2009, 10:59 PM
The back layers are a pain to work with. Here is something that I put together.

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc146/zekeike12/ruins.jpg

TheMarvelousHat
07-26-2009, 11:07 PM
That's insane! I've tried this and there are SO many possibilities!

How'd he do that?!

RickRock_777
07-26-2009, 11:11 PM
@zekeike...very nice!

I played with these blocks also...thought it was interesting I could crush blocks on the layers towards the back by using a block located on one of the normal 3 thick layers.

I also played with the 11-layer block from, I think, "Tiy" somethings level. Once you use R1 to shrink it back to the normal 3 layers, you cannot use R2 to expand it back out to the other 8 layers. So, in the case of a patch, I don't see Mm doing anything, as the current software already imposes constraints.

mass_gamer
07-26-2009, 11:35 PM
Yes this would help good creators to make some great things, if you could tell us how to do it.:(
:star: I just discovered something. If you have the 11 layer square object, you can use your regular pop it materials to use with the glitch.

:) I figured it out!

INTRUCTIONS: First, go to you pop it, go to community objects, and go to the 11 layer cube prize you got. Now, select it, but don't place it anywhere. Just press circle to get back to you pop it, and go to your materials. When you select ANY material and shape, it will be 11 layers long! This ONLY happens after selecting the 11 layer object, and then going back to the menu.

hilightnotes
07-27-2009, 12:01 AM
Wow zekeike, see THAT's what I'm talking about. Absolutely amazing.

...If only you could walk up the stairs in 3D :D

But even still, it would be so cool to just have that, and be able to walk between the pillars in the background, or anywhere else up on top of the stairs. That's awesome. Awesome. Awesome.

Make a level please! :p

DrunkenFist_Lee
07-27-2009, 12:42 AM
Regarding the statement that you can't overlap these blocks.. you can if you use the shaping tool. Also, make sure you glue everything to something else. Things break easily.

I just wish we knew how to do this from scratch. You can make a flat floor extend out in front of the normal 3 layers using the prizes given, but not individual floating blocks... which would be far more useful. It might be possible to create these with experimentation & would do wonders for a level's atmosphere.

Also, it's cool having that layer 50 block, but I think I'd rather have a block around layer 25. Still farther back, but it'd be easier to use. You could size it up and sticker a background on it... So many possibilities.

Anyways, Bakscratch is awesome for sharing what he has with us and not keeping it to himself.

warlord_evil
07-27-2009, 12:58 AM
This glitch is quite fun to play with, I built an object that goes past the front and pretty far backwards, I built this hangar with it:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn65/warlord_evil/APhoto_10-1.jpg
http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn65/warlord_evil/APhoto_11-1.jpg
The hangar seems a lot smaller in the picture. But if remember how large those cement tiles on the ground are in game, it can give a good size reference for the hangar.

comphermc
07-27-2009, 01:03 AM
Wow, I wish the glitch were more user-friendly for me. Great work on the hanger - the plane needs a little work, lol. I can only get long blocks that extend to the 11th plane.

Are you able to make your own layers now, or are you still ripping them from Bakscratch's cascade?

warlord_evil
07-27-2009, 01:14 AM
Wow, I wish the glitch were more user-friendly for me. Great work on the hanger - the plane needs a little work, lol.
I built the hangar for fun, so I quickly put the planes together.

I can only get long blocks that extend to the 11th plane.

I took the block 50 layer block from his level, and then I selected a cardboard block, and then I moved the cardboard block back a few layers, cloned it and moved it further towards the normal layers. Captured it, selected the captured object (but didn't place it) and then I placed another cardboard block, but this one extended all the way back to the first block I put back there.

But I think you can just put a 50th layer block back there, then place a block on the furthest (in front) layer, capture, and you can use that to create a large block. Or I can just give you the item I made.


Are you able to make your own layers now, or are you still ripping them from Bakscratch's cascade?

I can basically make my own now.


By the way, the 50th layer block from Bakscratch's level seems to be a lot more than 50th layers, I think it's about 100 layers or something.

I plan to make massive looking levels with this glitch, maybe a huge ravine, or a spacious cavern. But I think I'm just going to build a city, and a remake of my "Return to the Gardens" level.

Gravel
07-27-2009, 01:37 AM
I was always very disappointed with the blank slate level as you really cant make a very believable background... this glitch is simply amazing.

hilightnotes
07-27-2009, 03:10 AM
I'm loving the hangar.

Like Drunken_Fist said, I wish you could have individual blocks in the foreground without having them extend to the middle layers. This is a lot of fun! :D

Leonardo
07-27-2009, 03:12 AM
Who wants to bet that MM will patch this? D:

Snappyguy
07-27-2009, 04:08 AM
Well I'm not gonna bet my collection of nukes. I need that for the next patch....

NinjaMicWZ
07-27-2009, 04:20 AM
I made a set of completely editable thin and thick blocks of dark matter on 10 layers into the back and 10 layers into the front (more if you count the thin layers). Also, they won't break when place in front of each other as long as they are glued to the layer in front.

I will send them to anyone who wants them, as I find it easier to select individual layers on every layer, than to try and embed from the back to the front.

hilightnotes
07-27-2009, 04:33 AM
I'd love it if you sent them to me!

Lady_Luck__777
07-27-2009, 04:43 AM
I made a set of completely editable thin and thick blocks of dark matter on 10 layers into the back and 10 layers into the front (more if you count the thin layers). Also, they won't break when place in front of each other as long as they are glued to the layer in front.
I will send them to anyone who wants them, as I find it easier to select individual layers on every layer, than to try and embed from the back to the front.

I would like to have these too please.

S-A-S--G-U-N-R
07-27-2009, 05:13 AM
I've made a temple with stairs with this glitch- I'm thinking of making an entire theme but I know that I won't ever finish it. There's so many possibilities possible with it that MM might not want to patch it (like what happened with the coloured lasers) but this completely changes what LBP was meant to be like when it was made so I won't be surprised if a patch is released soon.

Deftmute
07-27-2009, 05:22 AM
can i get those dark matter bits as well, please?

mass_gamer
07-27-2009, 05:37 AM
:star: Should I email Mm to see if they are planning to fix it, or should I not risk letting them know if they don't already know about it? :star:

NinjaMicWZ
07-27-2009, 06:30 AM
I published the block layers I made out of the glitch... should be easy to find under my PSN name. Let me know if you can work with them, it's set to shareable, so it should be ok. If not, I'll have to find a way to free up space and make a key level for it and set it to copyable.

Ok, well none of my friends could edit the prize, so I had to make the level locked and copyable. My friend's list is full, and I can't add anyone, I also have too many levels published to have a lock-and-key level so I put the key at the end of my LED and Lock demo level... nobody really plays it so it should be fine.

Recurracy
07-27-2009, 09:13 AM
Could someone please e-mail MM for a new idea?
Something like this glitch, but alot more user-friendly. You can make these objects like any regular object, but instead, make it have physics but limit the interaction with the player.

I want to have this 'glitch' as a regular LBP-feature.

NinjaMicWZ
07-27-2009, 10:00 AM
I don't see this becoming a standard feature any time soon. It's way too easy to get stuck inside your boxed level and be unable to fly out and away to other parts of your creation, because sackboy uses the frontmost layers to bypass the 7 main layers.

Anything I've done, I've had to cut myself out of, or spawn myself out of by going into play mode and back into create mode.

As cool as it is, it wasn't meant for this.

rtm223
07-27-2009, 10:47 AM
First of all, cool find. Not really my cup of tea but nevermind. But, can someone please explain to me why the extra layers phenomenon is now known as "3D". Exactly how many layers do you have to use for it to qualify for that elusive extra dimension? As far as I understand, it's 2. Probably 1 if you consider that all of the layers have depth - All LBP levels are 3D... Seriously, how do these stupid names catch on? :p

NinjaMicWZ
07-27-2009, 10:50 AM
I know. It's just good marketing, and people don't know any better :P

I'm going to make a 1D level

Leather-Monkey
07-27-2009, 11:32 AM
Im using this to make a cave in my latest level.

I've also found out how to overlap layers - I think you just copy the object/material and paste it so its attached to one of the glitched layers. You can also use the connectors (pistons etc.) in the glitched layers!

How do you work in the very front layers though???

ARD
07-27-2009, 11:46 AM
I do have a message with the instructions on how to do this...but it's from months ago and I can't find it!
ARGH!

Syroc
07-27-2009, 11:53 AM
First of all, cool find. Not really my cup of tea but nevermind. But, can someone please explain to me why the extra layers phenomenon is now known as "3D". Exactly how many layers do you have to use for it to qualify for that elusive extra dimension? As far as I understand, it's 2. Probably 1 if you consider that all of the layers have depth - All LBP levels are 3D... Seriously, how do these stupid names catch on? :p

As far as I know it always has been a 3D game. : )

NinjaMicWZ
07-27-2009, 11:55 AM
Im using this to make a cave in my latest level.

I've also found out how to overlap layers - I think you just copy the object/material and paste it so its attached to one of the glitched layers. You can also use the connectors (pistons etc.) in the glitched layers!

How do you work in the very front layers though???

If you temporarily change your materials to dark matter, they will slide together in front of each other no matter what... then glue them together use L1 or L2 pushes, then change the material back to whatever you want.

You can also bypass the 1st/7th layer collision by embedding you regular layer objects into the extra back and front. For example, a 3 plane staircase with thin plane railings on the side... it won't let you slide this object between the extra layers, but you can copy it and then physically place it front of it. As long as dark matter is holding all of this stuff in place somewhere, it won't flip out and go crazy.

Leather-Monkey
07-27-2009, 11:56 AM
Ahh I see.

Thanks.

NinjaMicWZ
07-27-2009, 12:10 PM
Is that how to overlap materials or how to work at the front?

How to overlap them... the front layers work the same way as the back layer ones... well at least the one's I made do. If you're working with the front layer block that thi gives you, you can only cut into it and embed stuff onto it using the 3 regular planes.

If you want to make your own front layers -

Select thi667's back layer block from your community objects

Cancel it without placing it

Go to your popit and select a new material, any shape, and make your own block. Capture it so that you have a non-community tagged version you can edit.

Use your trigger buttons to thin this object all the way to the back layer as far as it will go, but don't move it.

Capture that.

Make a dark matter block with an emitter and a sensor switch on it.

Set the emitter to infinite lifespan, max emittered infinite, 95 at a time (just to have breathing room).

Move this block to the regular back layer. Connect your sensor switch, and set the sensor switch to 1 shot.

Activate it once.

Move the emitter block forward and over a space.

Activate it again to make a layer that's closer to the normal layers.

Move the emitter block forward and over a space again.

Activate it again and you have 3 blocks.

Capture the 3rd block you made, and move the emitter block back to the 3rd regular plane again

Repeat the process, capturing the newest block everytime.

Once you have a full set of layers that touch to the regular layers (or more), capture the whole set.

Take your emitter block that you've been using and move it into the front most regular layer.

Put this set of layer blocks you've made in the emitter.

Move it back to the 3rd regular plane as if you're attempting to make a layer that's even further back.

Activate the emitter.

Instead of emitting this set further back than it was, it will emit the furthest block into the 3rd layer and closest block into the forward layers.

Line all of these up as best as you can.

When you try to copy these objects, the layer sets will copy as one object instead of individual blocks.

You will have to copy the sets, and remove extra blocks one at a time until you have isolated a copy of each block that isn't "attached" to a set of blocks.

Once you have this whole set of blocks, you can capture it, and make layers way too far into the front... moreso than is even visible.

Making thin layers out of these is just a matter of patience.

Trevor
07-27-2009, 12:24 PM
How to overlap them... the front layers work the same way as the back layer ones... well at least the one's I made do. If you're working with the front layer block that thi gives you, you can only cut into it and embed stuff onto it using the 3 regular planes.

If you want to make your own front layers -

Select thi667's back layer block from your community objects

Cancel it without placing it

Go to your popit and select a new material, any shape, and make your own block. Capture it so that you have a non-community tagged version you can edit.

Use your trigger buttons to thin this object all the way to the back layer as far as it will go, but don't move it.

Capture that.

Make a dark matter block with an emitter and a sensor switch on it.

Set the emitter to infinite lifespan, max emittered infinite, 95 at a time (just to have breathing room).

Move this block to the regular back layer. Connect your sensor switch, and set the sensor switch to 1 shot.

Activate it once.

Move the emitter block forward and over a space.

Activate it again to make a layer that's closer to the normal layers.

Move the emitter block forward and over a space again.

Activate it again and you have 3 blocks.

Capture the 3rd block you made, and move the emitter block back to the 3rd regular plane again

Repeat the process, capturing the newest block everytime.

Once you have a full set of layers that touch to the regular layers (or more), capture the whole set.

Take your emitter block that you've been using and move it into the front most regular layer.

Put this set of layer blocks you've made in the emitter.

Move it back to the 3rd regular plane as if you're attempting to make a layer that's even further back.

Activate the emitter.

Instead of emitting this set further back than it was, it will emit the furthest block into the 3rd layer and closest block into the forward layers.

Line all of these up as best as you can.

When you try to copy these objects, the layer sets will copy as one object instead of individual blocks.

You will have to copy the sets, and remove extra blocks one at a time until you have isolated a copy of each block that isn't "attached" to a set of blocks.

Once you have this whole set of blocks, you can capture it, and make layers way too far into the front... moreso than is even visible.

Making thin layers out of these is just a matter of patience.

You're a complete genius, thank you so much.

Leonardo
07-27-2009, 01:29 PM
I thought this was permanant. D:
But it wasn't.

Leather-Monkey
07-27-2009, 01:39 PM
I thought this was permanant. D:
But it wasn't.

What do you mean? Has it been fixed!?! :cry:

NinjaMicWZ
07-27-2009, 01:43 PM
I had to take the copyable level down, I accidentally published it unlocked while it was set to copyable, no key required. I relocked it immediately, but I've already seen two copies of the level published by other people.

I saw Spaff play bakscratch's level earlier btw... his score popped up on my notices. I asked nicely not to patch the glitch out because the parallax possibilities are too great to throw away.

Leonardo
07-27-2009, 01:50 PM
lol no, I was saying that selecting the block would be permanant.

Also there's a glitch when using the Camera Zone item, it'll see-through the block instead. (I FOUND IT FURST. :()

deboerdave
07-27-2009, 03:28 PM
Does anyone know of the original method of producing the extra layers. Right now we can only use material in the other layers using the objects already there and manipulating its position. If we know how that object originally got there, then we can put other objects there such as lights.

Waldo
07-27-2009, 06:18 PM
I had to take the copyable level down, I accidentally published it unlocked while it was set to copyable, no key required. I relocked it immediately, but I've already seen two copies of the level published by other people.

I saw Spaff play bakscratch's level earlier btw... his score popped up on my notices. I asked nicely not to patch the glitch out because the parallax possibilities are too great to throw away.

****** I just had to fall asleep before that didn't I :(. Well ninja how did you get the layers to split? and go thin every time I try I always end up back at the standard layers

oh wait it's right there lol

Ps. I also found another way to switch between layers easily just make the object thin and then think again and it will automatically go up a plane. I'm about to see if I can make a huge shortcut of your process

comphermc
07-27-2009, 07:28 PM
Alright, I don't know what exactly Ninja's level had in it, but I made a copyable level with 15 thick and thin extra layers. Also included are the super thick layers that stretch all the way back to the 11th layer. It took me forever to figure out how to make them all from Bakstratch's original "50" block. Basically, you have to alternate between hitting R1 and R2, and it will move forward one layer. Doing this you'll discover that the "50" block should actually be like a "60" block. The little "material change, then place your own block" trick only seems to work when you change the material of a thin block, in case anyone wants to make their own.

In theory, you could make about 60 layers from the "50" block, but you can't really see what's going on when they are that far out, so I only made 15.

I'm interested to see if you can come up with layers that are overlap-able Ninja. You can overlap them in create mode, but as soon as you hit play, bad things happen, lol.

Level name: BakStratch's Extra Layers (and a few more)
Location: Northern Brazil

Edit: front layers are a mystery to me. Ninja lost me once he started talking about emitters, lol.

Waldo
07-27-2009, 07:44 PM
Alright, I don't know what exactly Ninja's level had in it, but I made a copyable level with 15 thick and thin extra layers. Also included are the super thick layers that stretch all the way back to the 11th layer. It took me forever to figure out how to make them all from Bakstratch's original "50" block. Basically, you have to alternate between hitting R1 and R2, and it will move forward one layer. Doing this you'll discover that the "50" block should actually be like a "60" block. The little "material change, then place your own block" trick only seems to work when you change the material of a thin block, in case anyone wants to make their own.

In theory, you could make about 60 layers from the "50" block, but you can't really see what's going on when they are that far out, so I only made 15.

I'm interested to see if you can come up with layers that are overlap-able Ninja. You can overlap them in create mode, but as soon as you hit play, bad things happen, lol.

Level name: BakStratch's Extra Layers (and a few more)
Location: Northern Brazil

Edit: front layers are a mystery to me. Ninja lost me once he started talking about emitters, lol.

It's actually quite easy and you don't even have to keep on capturing the next block over. The strangest part is that nice little formation it makes is actually there when you emit it. When I first made the layers they were sloppy and all over the place after they emitted they were perfectly aligned. The big problem now is to get the blocks out. you can't delete one block without destroying the whole thing. I haven't tried to copy and paste yet but that should alliviate some of the problems. About the emmiting thing if you switch from planes the extra layers force themselves to different layers. I was able to get REALLY far back, and REALLY far ahead to where the blocks don't even show anymore in game view. I think once you pass the 6th layer you can't see them in game view and you can go as far as 40 for the background. I'll post a picture up soon

Jaeyden
07-27-2009, 08:41 PM
Well Ninja..after everything we did yesterday, I have figured out a way to get my own objects into the foreground and background. See you when you get on today :)

NinjaMicWZ
07-27-2009, 08:45 PM
Nice, Jaeyden. I'm gonna turn it back on now lol


I'm interested to see if you can come up with layers that are overlap-able Ninja. You can overlap them in create mode, but as soon as you hit play, bad things happen, lol.


I already said you can overlap them. The layers have to be glued to whatever they're colliding with. Use your L1 and L2 glueing. You just can't have them colliding and moving... for example, an infinite terrain generation.

Change them to dark matter, put them behind or in front however you want them, glue them all together, and change them back to whatever material you want.

Waldo
07-27-2009, 09:25 PM
hey ninja could you elaborate on the whole l1 l2 pushes gluing I've been able to get materials between each other but the only way to make them go on the layers that I have found is to make them the 11 layer think then thin them to the correct plane and thickness. then copy and post them over the selecte background object but to do so I have to detach everything and do it individually. Got a decent bypass yet. I'm just trying to make a small castle with a frigin tree in the middle thats it nothing too big and its drivin me nuts :grr:

comphermc
07-27-2009, 09:27 PM
If you push a layer against another layer by pressing L1 or L2 and then glue it, it will only be glued to that surface which it is pushing against. It's a useful trick when in the normal 3 planes* as well.

*Well, 7 planes...

Waldo
07-27-2009, 09:31 PM
If you push a layer against another layer by pressing L1 or L2 and then glue it, it will only be glued to that surface which it is pushing against. It's a useful trick when in the normal 3 planes* as well.

*Well, 7 planes...

so you mean push against as in two different planes? or can you do it while they occupy the same layer as well? That does sound like a useful trick but I'm afraid I'm still a little confused as to how it is done. Know if there are any tut's or vids lying around these series of tubes? ;)

Oh yeah small update I was able to make a small castle with a tree in the middle. To make sure nothing broke I captured a thin piece of dark matter and made it go back as far as I could make it go then had it go to the layer that the tree was in (it was in seperate pieces then I "glued" everything together by places the dark matter inside the objects

I have these small pieces for the far background layer and the far foreground layer. They should come in handy another thing I found out is that if they are close enough you can put switches on them. It is actually quite easy to shift each plane as with them

rtm223
07-27-2009, 09:36 PM
If you go into create and try it, you can place an object on the layer behind, place one in front of it, then press L2 as though you are moving it back a plane, but it will press up against and the back layer will go darker to indicate. The darkness indicates what you are glueing to.

(I don't know of a tutorial or vid, in other words :p)

Waldo
07-27-2009, 09:38 PM
If you go into create and try it, you can place an object on the layer behind, place one in front of it, then press L2 as though you are moving it back a plane, but it will press up against and the back layer will go darker to indicate. The darkness indicates what you are glueing to.

(I don't know of a tutorial or vid, in other words :p)

oh so that basically indicates what each thing is touching, not necessarily gluing?

NinjaMicWZ
07-27-2009, 09:38 PM
lmao, unreal... Jaeyden figured it out using the individual layers and emitters of mine that I've been trying to give you guys all day.

ANYTHING in the background or the foreground. ANYTHING... except checkpoints apparently.

Patience my young padouins.

comphermc
07-27-2009, 09:45 PM
I'm going to be in class for the next 5 1/2 hours, and I feel like I can't even wait, ha ha. You guys rock, by the way.

Waldo
07-27-2009, 09:46 PM
lmao, unreal... Jaeyden figured it out using the individual layers of mine that I've been trying to give you guys all day.

ANYTHING in the background or the foreground. ANYTHING... except checkpoints apparently.

Patience my young padouins.

Wait what? you mean the individual layers that you had in your copyable level? I figured out how to reproduce those hours ago. but for some reason I can't make the **** things stick to each other. It's like if you copied thinck material together it would just explode out of each other

Crashdance22
07-27-2009, 10:07 PM
Whoa, ok guys... someone needs to post a diagram, video, or something to visually represent this. Not saying discussing it is crazy but I'm not getting what's going on. Sounds great though! Why would you not be able to place checkpoints on extra layers?

NinjaMicWZ
07-27-2009, 10:11 PM
Well you can put them in the layers in create mode, but when you enter play mode, it breaks itself out of where it is, and realigns itself at the closest normal layer, or destroys itself completely if unattached. When you return to create, it's the same as it was in play mode even though it wasn't saved this way - it just won't allow it.

I haven't tried jetpacks or paintinators etc yet, but I'd assume they're the same.

Waldo
07-27-2009, 10:12 PM
Well you can put them in the layers in create mode, but when you enter play mode, it breaks itself out of where it is, and realigns itself at the closest normal layer, or destroys itself completely if unattached. When you return to create, it's the same as it was in play mode even though it wasn't saved this way - it just won't allow it.

I haven't tried jetpacks or paintinators etc yet, but I'd assume they're the same.

you mean to tell me you have objects in those layers now?

NinjaMicWZ
07-27-2009, 10:15 PM
Jaeyden and I do... we can put anything we want there. It's just super tedious.

Waldo
07-27-2009, 10:22 PM
awesome. Think you can try to get some spot lights in there. with that you could easily make a horizon

Also I've found a few goodies myself that should help out a lot of people that missed micwz's layers. It's not a lot but with them you can pull off a lot of stuff.

I'm making a level called 3-D court-yard. and at the end is a small gate similar to ghosts. the password is 867530 (extra points if you can figure out where i got that from :p) and it will have the key to the copyable level

Morgana25
07-27-2009, 10:26 PM
You guys continue to blow my mind :) Thanks for sharing the how rather than just it can be done. Much less frustrating when you can see how (at least the very basic part of how in my case.)

Waldo
07-27-2009, 10:29 PM
Okay I got a level published that should take a lot of the work out of it for you guys. It is called 3d-courtyard and past that little tidbit is a gate. The password is 867530 and it gives you a key to the copyable level. Enjoy :p

It has individual layers in dark matter for both front and back layers as well as small glass ones that can be edited

NinjaMicWZ
07-27-2009, 10:38 PM
Ok for anyone who doesn't believe that Jaeyden and I can put whatever we want in the background, check my crummy layer level out again. I put two Leviathin Ouroboros serpent symbols in the foreground and the background. This is an object that is seen in my False Idols I level, and has been sitting in my pop it for over 6 months. It is far too troublesome for me to recreate by hand in one of these layers, let alone both. So I will provide it as proof -

Go take a look in my layer glitch level.

I will continue to put more objects in as I make them (it takes awhile) just to show more of it's capability.

Jaeyden
07-27-2009, 10:44 PM
Published a level called "Objects..not just material in the BG" - Shows you that you can get almost anything you want back there.

Edit: LOL- Ninja I think our brains are linked. ;)

Crashdance22
07-27-2009, 10:45 PM
NinjaMicWZ, how can I edit the layers with the corner editor? I captured the object, which let me move individual layers and scale them. I also tried capturing layers, placing them, emitting/capturing/placing, but I still can't use the corner editor.

Leonardo
07-27-2009, 10:46 PM
I tried to put items in the back, but I couldn't. D:
I even did it when you select the box.

Waldo
07-27-2009, 10:48 PM
NinjaMicWZ, how can I edit the layers with the corner editor? I captured the object, which let me move individual layers and scale them. I also tried capturing layers, placing them, emitting/capturing/placing, but I still can't use the corner editor.

It's weird like that try changing it to a different material I'm not sure how I did I have some glass in several layers that could possibly help you. Just look a few posts back I published a copyable level with some of the items

Waldo
07-27-2009, 10:51 PM
Published a level called "Objects..not just material in the BG" - Shows you that you can get almost anything you want back there.

Edit: LOL- Ninja I think our brains are linked. ;)

btw jaeyden your level isn't showing up on searches :mad:

NinjaMicWZ
07-27-2009, 10:53 PM
Ok I threw a big chunk fo my valentines day level into the back layer... some of it broke, it seems certain things need certain requirements, but I'm just trying stuff.

...but this is irrefutable evidence that I straight up pushed something made in the regular layers, into the back layer, in less than 20 minutes. It's real up in here lol

Waldo
07-27-2009, 10:54 PM
Ok I threw a big chunk fo my valentines day level into the back layer... some of it broke, it seems certain things need certain requirements, but I'm just trying stuff.

...but this is irrefutable evidence that I straight up pushed something made in the regular layers, into the back layer, in less than 20 minutes. It's real up in here lol

care to explain how then? It would be a hell of a lot easier to build things in the normal planes then place them in the back ground

Leonardo
07-28-2009, 12:20 AM
Waldo, please don't double post. Use the edit button.

Also Jaeyden's level isn't much showing anything. It's blank, but I see the hat at the back.

Waldo
07-28-2009, 12:41 AM
Lol figured out how to put objects in the back. It is a pain in the butt. I'll pm you ninja to see if we have something similar

Whalio Cappuccino
07-28-2009, 12:47 AM
Seems like all the levels are being locked?

I can't find J-B-e-a-r's anymore.

Waldo
07-28-2009, 12:49 AM
Seems like all the levels are being locked?

I can't find J-B-e-a-r's anymore.

*points to signature*

That might help I'm about to see if any got moded lol

Crashdance22
07-28-2009, 12:57 AM
Whaaaaale, J-Bear locked it, seeing the rumor was creating a situation he didn't expect. He explains everything in the "Word on the glitch" thread in Everything Else LittleBigPlanet.

Waldo
07-28-2009, 02:09 AM
just a word of warning you can still crash the game especially when rewinding lol. I had just made something awesome too :grr:

mass_gamer
07-28-2009, 03:37 AM
Ok, so whats the name of the level that shows you how to use objects in the foreground and background? I can't find it.

Btw, who else has had crashes because of this? Waldo says that rewinding does it sometimes, but I rewind very often when dealing with the many layers, and I haven't had a crash.

If you want, PM me to keep me in the loop. Thanks.

Waldo
07-28-2009, 07:19 AM
Ok, so whats the name of the level that shows you how to use objects in the foreground and background? I can't find it.

Btw, who else has had crashes because of this? Waldo says that rewinding does it sometimes, but I rewind very often when dealing with the many layers, and I haven't had a crash.

If you want, PM me to keep me in the loop. Thanks.

It may have something to do with switches and other objects that latch on to geography. See I figured out a way to put spot lights A few layers behind in the back ground hat did a great effect of making a horizon without really making everything blue as it was behind you. I then added about 80 emitters to a piece of flat rubber that was on the 6th back layer. They didn't emit anything they just were there because they make a small light so it was perfect for stars:star::star::star::cool:

It may be that. basically be wary when putting switches on layers for now. Another issue is you can move stuff under the floor and it will subsequently break if it isn't attached to dark matter somehow, even objects.

Also I'll be making a tut later on how to put objects in the foreground or background later. I could make a full blown level with this stuff but I'm rather preoccupied as of now

mass_gamer
07-28-2009, 04:17 PM
Thanks Waldo. I didn't think about the little star in the middle of the emitters. I'll have to look into making a space level. I noticed though, when you place sound objects on the glitched layers that the speaker appears on the last regular layer. I guess switches are stick to what they're being stuck to. Thanks for the heads up.

EDIT: I guess I thought the wrong thing. Switches only go to glitched layers when you create a background block, stick a switch to it, and then move it backwards or make it thin. Using that, I made this starry night sky...
http://i32.tinypic.com/j82jb4.jpg

RangerZero
07-29-2009, 12:04 AM
This so need to become a feature in a futur update.

I just wish people will use this glitch in and out in order to help Media Molecule to understand we want that.

Editing background would be AWESOME. Imagine making a plain level that is 100% your style, your thing. This glitch is mindblowing.

.

Waldo
07-29-2009, 01:01 AM
Thanks Waldo. I didn't think about the little star in the middle of the emitters. I'll have to look into making a space level. I noticed though, when you place sound objects on the glitched layers that the speaker appears on the last regular layer. I guess switches are stick to what they're being stuck to. Thanks for the heads up.

EDIT: I guess I thought the wrong thing. Switches only go to glitched layers when you create a background block, stick a switch to it, and then move it backwards or make it thin. Using that, I made this starry night sky...
http://i32.tinypic.com/j82jb4.jpg

don't thank me thank bsprague he gave me the idea. Also I just redid one of my more favorite levels with the background glitch. I'll be putting it up very soon

mnimmo1986
07-29-2009, 06:59 AM
This so need to become a feature in a future update.

I would not get your hopes up;
http://forums.littlebigworkshop.com/lbp/board/message?board.id=pod&message.id=81939#M81939

And of course this is a bug, so it's going to get fixed.

Adam9001
07-29-2009, 10:55 AM
GAHHH.

Stupid.

I wonder if we can still use this glitch but not make it from scratch.. that would be AWESOME.

I got my LOL LOL LOL background with me to xD

oldage
07-29-2009, 03:27 PM
Wonder if it's already been mentioned or not, but ratboy made a glitch museum 5, with a stunning 50 BACKGROUND LAYERS!

Snappyguy
07-30-2009, 02:50 AM
The thing I don't like about this glitch is that I can only keep going backwards so the thinnest layer is all the way at the back and I can't make it bigger after I've made it smaller.

Better than nothing and I am really hoping someone makes some custom backgrounds to distribute.

Dexist
07-30-2009, 11:47 AM
i have that item from bakscratch those layers/ but how do i now change them? i can only change size and material, can i not change the shape?

and how to put thing in the front layers?? and i saw radboy made a 50layer item how you can do that!?!?!

warlord_evil
07-30-2009, 07:48 PM
i have that item from bakscratch those layers/ but how do i now change them? i can only change size and material, can i not change the shape?
You have to select the item from bakscratches level, but don't place it. You then go choose a material (don't close your pop-it) and you place that material. But I just remembered if you try to place a material from the 50 layer object, it might not work.


and i saw radboy made a 50layer item how you can do that!?!?!
Place the 50 layer object, then place a object in the very front layer. Capture those two blocks in the separate layers, as one object. Select that newly captured object, but don't place it, and go place a material. It should stretch back from the front layer to the 50th layer.

(I don't really think that block is on the 50th layer, It's more of the 100th or something.)

Jagrevi
08-01-2009, 11:12 PM
EDIT: nevermind, figured out the object background/foreground thing on my own.

SlinkDewar
08-02-2009, 05:06 AM
Unfortunatly, theres no way MM would keep this, LBP is known for its 2D platforming style. putting this in would ruin everything they've done (i.e saying any age can play because its 2D) If MM didn't make it, MM doesn't want it. (unless its REALLY pimp XD) Which is too bad, i love this glitch.

Shris
08-02-2009, 08:16 AM
I haven't used the ps3 for a couple weeks, so this was something to come back to. I've no clue as to how its done yet but when you create in the extra layers does it fill thermo space? I can't see how anyone could make a good background with this glitch and still have the space to create a level, at least if the background had a fair amount of detail. I can only see this glitch as good thing if skilled creators use it. I played a level today and it looked pretty bad and with the stretched layers everywhere I had a pretty hard time getting around because I had no idea which layers I was able to go in. But it could have been rushed, so I guess I won't say so much as skilled creators but people who actually take the time to make it look good, and not so confusing.