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comphermc
07-25-2009, 11:29 PM
Hello friends,

Have you ever played a level with a vehicle (or some other object) that moves in two directions, but you just get annoyed with having to press two grab switches or deal with those pesky pull switches. Have no fear, I'm on the case...

Seriously though, I hate when vehicles require to you have to pull a three way switch to move in two directions. Having two different grab switches is better, but still less than ideal, as sackboy doesn't always grab the right one. I've decided to make it all work with a single grab switch.

It's a bit logic intensive, so I'll let most of you just nod your heads and agree, but it works on the premise of an AND logic gate combined with a one shot toggle switch. In layman's terms, each time you grab the switch, it toggles between two different actions. Here, I've purposed this concept into a two directional vehicle.

When you first get into the vehicle (in this case it's a truck), and grab the steering wheel, it will take off to the right - no surprises here. However, if you release the steering wheel and grab it again, it will change directions and reverse to the left. Each time you release and grab the steering wheel, it will reverse directions.

The logic shown looks more complicated than it really is, as I have lights and sounds worked into it. I've published a level with the truck and the logic, if you'd like to check it out. If you're feeling in the collecting mood, I am giving away the truck and logic (combined into one object) at the end of the level.

Level: Smarter Vehicles Logic Showcase
PSN: comphermc

Good-day, everyone :)

NinjaMicWZ
07-26-2009, 12:06 AM
Very nice implementation... a guy named Shiwayari that used to post here came up with some really amazing stuff sort of like this, where each grab would do something different. I didn't really understand it at the time, but had wanted to incorporate it into a vehicle... good stuff.

TheMarvelousHat
07-26-2009, 12:56 AM
Very nice, I never thought of something like that. I'll check it out later and get back to this.

mistervista
07-26-2009, 01:08 AM
I've been using something like this for ages where one grab switch does 3 operations.

I used one on my elevator in my FF7 cutouts level.

It goes in one direction on one grab,next grab stops it and next grab reverses direction and so on.

I think it was made by Lite_Sleeper who makes a lot of good fonts too but I couldn't swear to that because I got it a long time ago. I'll check when I'm back on the PS3 later.

Also deadeye49 has a lot of switches that do multiple things with one grab.

comphermc
07-26-2009, 02:01 AM
Well, sorry to disappoint you mistervista, but at least I can say with confidence that if I were to cut out the sounds and camera changes mine would be the simplest design possible. Does your design have a 4 way toggle built into it in the form of a wheel?

Thanks for the heads-up, though.

At least this comes pre-packaged for anyone who wants to use it on a vehicle of their own.

springs86
07-26-2009, 02:18 AM
This is a cool idea however two places that i've seen it done before are

deadeye49 - Logical circuitry and setups for vehicles and weaponry

horwitzer - logic board concept

however will be interested to see your take on it :) (sorry for shoutouts just saying)

Adam9001
07-26-2009, 11:14 AM
I cant find the level..

Oh and what is logic?

BSprague
07-26-2009, 11:39 AM
I cant find the level..

Oh and what is logic?

Logic covers a broad range of things in LittleBigPlanet. Most logic is packed into different types of home-brewed switches (AND, OR, XOR, Toggle, State, etc). Using a bunch of these switches in unison with each other can wield interesting and complex results. That's the most basic sense of the term I can think of, check out Randofu or Incinerator22's logic gates for a better understanding.

Adam9001
07-26-2009, 12:06 PM
Logic covers a broad range of things in LittleBigPlanet. Most logic is packed into different types of home-brewed switches (AND, OR, XOR, Toggle, State, etc). Using a bunch of these switches in unison with each other can wield interesting and complex results. That's the most basic sense of the term I can think of, check out Randofu or Incinerator22's logic gates for a better understanding.

I played a level of logic stuff, im going to check out the names you said too....


I love logic :P

I've used a and switch many times befor.

Leather-Monkey
07-26-2009, 02:53 PM
Cool, if I end up using a vehicle in my new level would you mind if I used this? I'll credit you in the description of course. :)

Syroc
07-26-2009, 03:00 PM
I've been using something like this for ages where one grab switch does 3 operations.

It goes in one direction on one grab,next grab stops it and next grab reverses direction and so on.

I think it was made by Lite_Sleeper who makes a lot of good fonts too but I couldn't swear to that because I got it a long time ago. I'll check when I'm back on the PS3 later.
Ooh, I think I have the same one lying around for my long-planned-never-build pixel racers. It's very good, the switch.

Dan_Westy
07-26-2009, 03:44 PM
I was expecting more when i opened this thread. This is actually quite old and i dont think its that good because you might let go of the switch to shoot or something then you go a different way. I have a better way which i use sometimes which uses one grab. Ok you grab and it goes to right. You grab again and it goes right again (and you think so what) well if u grab it and grab again about a second after it will change direction (omg) so basically u grab it twice to change to direction. Its called a double grab switch and its pretty much an enhancement of yours really.

comphermc
07-26-2009, 05:00 PM
I was expecting more when i opened this thread. This is actually quite old and i dont think its that good because you might let go of the switch to shoot or something then you go a different way.

Forgive me for defending my thread, but "What!?" It's a vehicle - what are you shooting? Did you try the level out before bashing it? I predict no. It's meant for an enclosed vehicle.

Why would I need to shoot anything?

It's more than just a directional change. I didn't put it in the thread description because I assumed people would actually play the level before giving feedback, but it does more than just change directions.

When you grab it the first time, the camera shifts to show a front moving view (so you can see what is in front of you), and it is accompanied by the sound of a truck engine. Release and re-grab the steering wheel, and the camera will shift to show what's behind the truck, and will be accompanied by the sound of a truck backing up.

I wouldn't call yours an enhancement to my design, rather a different method. Thank you, and good day!

fullofwin
07-27-2009, 03:24 PM
I tried this out last night...I think it's great. Really simplifies the user interaction. The 3-way switch just didn't work for the tank I built because of the terrain bouncing you around making it change directions un-expectedly. I chose to solve this with 2 grab switches, but I like the single grab switch idea better.

I didn't try it so maybe this already works, but if "getting out" of the vehicle reset the logic so that a grab would again go forward that would make levels where you need to stop to get out and do something work really nicely. Other than that there isn't really a need to stop/start a vehicle (that needs to reverse) in most levels...and if you do, big deal, you grab, reverse briefly, grab again to go forward.

I think this scheme would have really helped a lot of the golf carts in the LBP HotShots challenge...instead of grab the fiddly little steering wheel to go forward, the seat to reverse, etc.

Cute trunk btw.

comphermc
07-27-2009, 03:34 PM
It would take a bit more work, but it's definitely possible. The toggle that I have now could be modified so that leaving the vehicle will trigger a chain that pulls it into the "forward" direction. The pistons in the toggle now would just need to have a lower strength so the chain would over-power them. If I find time, I'll try it out.

OR, I could just use a simpler (but more complicated?) toggle to allow leaving the vehicle to trigger a master reset. The only problem with the current vehicle design is that the truck is too tall to climb back in...

rtm223
07-27-2009, 03:38 PM
I kinda prefer comphermc's design to Lite_sleeper's one simply for the fact that it doesn't latch into going forwards mode (you hold down R1 so you actually have more control). Stopping and starting again is also fine, just tap then grab - no "after about a second" (omg indeed, that's a big old delay, probably involving crashing into stuff).

So yeah, with dan's you double tap to turn around, with comp's you double tap to continue forward. It's pretty much an arbitrary interface design choice... not quite deserving the grandiose term of "enhancement"

fullofwin
07-27-2009, 03:49 PM
The only problem with the current vehicle design is that the truck is too tall to climb back in...

That is a problem. :) For the purpose of the demo level you could just add a platform in the front plane that you could get out on to press a button and open a gate or something...