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Trindall
08-10-2009, 07:31 AM
LightbringerTrindall
A prophecy from an age long past told of a Hero that would cleanse the land of a dark evil. Yet the Hero never came and the evil scoured the land. You find yourself in this dead kingdom, can you bring light back to the land?
all
Title: LightBringer
Author: Trindall
Level Description: ďA prophecy from an age long past told of a Hero that would cleanse the land of a dark evil. Yet the Hero never came and the evil scoured the land. You find yourself in this dead kingdom, can you bring light back to the land?Ē

Update: Selected for the Sony Blog's LittleBigPlanet: Sack it to me community pick (http://blog.us.playstation.com/2009/09/littlebigplanet-sack-it-to-me-the-lots-of-videos-corrections-and-free-dlc-edition/)

Introduction
I've wanted to try my hand at a level that didn't move, shift or rotate. A level where I can pull the view back and give the player wider, more open environments.

This level is the culmination of ideas, themes and images raised in other games, books and movies and puts the player into the role of an unknowing hero that is destined to defeat an ancient evil.

There is a great deal of depth to the back-story and psychology of the antagonist for those wanting to look for it though it. (Both implicitly and explicitly explored in the level.) But I've worked hard to make the level accessible and fun for those wanting depth as well for those simply wanting a straightforward level.

Pictures
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/926/aphoto44.jpg

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/3353/aphoto48.jpg

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2965/aphoto54.jpg

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/479/aphoto69.jpg

Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ychm5b5b-zU
I appreciate your time and focus on this level. I'd be happy to hear back in regards to any complaints, issues or comments regarding the level and I'm also happy to help others out as I am able.

OmegaSlayer
08-10-2009, 07:40 AM
Cool, I like the pics.
Good looking stuff...and wonderful experience on your levels.
I'm expecting a lot.

RickTheRipper
08-10-2009, 10:42 AM
This level was lots of fun and full of epicness. I liked the way you used gas so effectively as obstacles and how we used the light to clear paths. The environment itself looked really good as well. Your use of the lighting tool throughout the level was very well done, especially after the boss fight (his death was so cool). I also liked how large the areas in your level were, I like long levels.

One thing I think you could do is add some decorations. But the main thing you need to do is put in some sound effects. The level is way too quiet without the sounds.

:star::star::star::star::star: and a heart. If you could try Hectic Hallways, that'd be swell

Kipmonlin
08-10-2009, 11:19 AM
So I just played this one and it's very impressive technically. Great puzzling stuff. Everything seems to work well.

The environment is so austere I didn't really enjoy spending time here, but the gameplay was so good it kept me going.

The dramatic ending was awesome but so short it felt underwhelming. I didn't feel rewarded after a somewhat lengthy adventure.

I think three players had completed and everyone had under 1000 points maybe a few more points to separate us would be good. I did die a lot so I suppose we can get better a high score!

Trindall
08-10-2009, 01:56 PM
One thing I think you could do is add some decorations. But the main thing you need to do is put in some sound effects. The level is way too quiet without the sounds.

:star::star::star::star::star: and a heart. If you could try Hectic Hallways, that'd be swell
There are a bit of SFX in the level but they are all supporting/background type items. Breaking stone and eerie wind are fairly common and there are quite a few variations on the Nemesis pain/growl/snarl type sounds.

I'll head back to see if some more sounds will work out in various spots though I did intend the level to be a bit more introspective. The life of the land has been leeched away a long time ago it is meant to be a lonely, empty feeling.

Thanks for the comments on level, I'll get on Hectic Hallways for some feedback a bit later this evening.


The environment is so austere I didn't really enjoy spending time here, but the gameplay was so good it kept me going.

The dramatic ending was awesome but so short it felt underwhelming. I didn't feel rewarded after a somewhat lengthy adventure.

I think three players had completed and everyone had under 1000 points maybe a few more points to separate us would be good. I did die a lot so I suppose we can get better a high score!
'Austere' is one of the feelings I was looking to convey through the level design, 'desolate', 'empty' and 'haunted' to name a few others.

I agree that it won't appeal players looking for more life and visual energy but I'm hoping that it doesn't come off too badly in those cases.

I was a bit stumped on how to deliver an ending that would fit the story of the level yet feel more rewarding and don't think I've gotten it just right.

Endings are a hard thing to do right in many cases but as light is an integral role in the level both literally and symbolically I went with the light breaking through the crumbled keep to show that the darkness has been lifted and light is coming back to shine on the land once again.

Yes, points where something I had originally thought to not use at all as bubble-catching didn't feel in the spirit that I was trying to create. I did go with rewarding the player for passing the light on from point to point and for digging into the level's backstory.

This lets those who ace the level get the highest score to show their achievement but also keeps the focus more so on the images and events. I think it is a trade-off that some will not enjoy.

Thank you for taking the time to play the level.


Cool, I like the pics.
Good looking stuff...and wonderful experience on your levels.
I'm expecting a lot.
I look forward to hearing what you think of the level.

Cheers.

MrsSpookyBuz
08-10-2009, 05:23 PM
Hi Trindall! You were kind enough to leave feedback for my level, and here I am reviewing yours...

What a beautiful, involving, engrossing level you've built!

In fact, I was surprised I continued playing it after watching your fantastic ocean shore scene right at the beginning. What did I do? I tried to jump in it, and got gassed! lol

Anyway... you seem to have spent a lot of time with your panoramic camera angles, and the great majority of them were great. You used some good tricks, too. Nothing too 'in your face', but more subtle, more understated, almost modest.

Some of the black gas parts and design reminded me of ICO (that's a plus, by the way), and your music choice was spot on.

I found it quite tricky in places, but in a challenging way, and I loved the atmosphere.

Overall, I'm very pleased to have played this great offering of yours.

I rated 5*, hearted and tagged with 'Beautiful'.

mistervista
08-10-2009, 09:11 PM
Hi . I've played your level and here is my feedback

Pros :
Like MrsSB I spent quite a while looking at the waves lapping up on the shore at the start. That was very effective and I have no idea how you did it.

Great design throughout

Wonderful atmosphere and sound effects

Excellent puzzles and mechanisms

Cons :

A few problems with plane shifting , mostly minor but the worst one was at the boss fight. In conjunction with the checkpoint being placed very badly it made it really awkward every time I got killed ( which was a lot ) because I spent ages just trying to get around the rocks and back to the boss area and when I finally managed it I invariably died straight away again. That made it very annoying.

Lack of music. I didn't hear any music at all so unless you've added it since I played it I would suggest the 'Daniel Pemberton' track 'Rainbow Warrior' would be perfect for the atmosphere you're trying to project. Alternatively 'Tricky business' or 'New Delhi Dawn' would be good choices too. If you've already added music ignore this.

Overall :

Brilliant level with some very clever innovative ideas which totally baffle me and presented very well. Apart from the awkward boss bit I thoroughly enjoyed it and look forward to your future levels.

ZipCity
08-10-2009, 09:44 PM
one of the light "keys" didn't work the first time I tried it (the one with the red, yellow, blue rotating pieces)

mistervista
08-10-2009, 09:55 PM
one of the light "keys" didn't work the first time I tried it (the one with the red, yellow, blue rotating pieces)

I think that's just a matter of getting them in the right order and in the right place using the 2 switches.

Trindall
08-10-2009, 10:22 PM
A few problems with plane shifting , mostly minor but the worst one was at the boss fight. In conjunction with the checkpoint being placed very badly it made it really awkward every time I got killed ( which was a lot ) because I spent ages just trying to get around the rocks and back to the boss area and when I finally managed it I invariably died straight away again. That made it very annoying.

Lack of music. I didn't hear any music at all so unless you've added it since I played it I would suggest the 'Daniel Pemberton' track 'Rainbow Warrior' would be perfect for the atmosphere you're trying to project. Alternatively 'Tricky business' or 'New Delhi Dawn' would be good choices too. If you've already added music ignore this.

I appreciate the good comments especially on the matters that didn't work out so great.

I elevate the final checkpoint to avoid it getting blocked by falling debris but I have had to jump over the rubble to get back to the action and it is a bit too wonky. I'll look to move it closer in, in a spot that will be clear yet out of the main fray.

I do have music in the level, three different tracks that I've gotten some positive comments on it from MrsSpookyBuz in an earlier post. I do play/create on my computer monitor and wear headphones and as such I think I hear the sound louder than others may.

Current the music that is there is down two or three notches from full volume but I can raise it back to full volume. My original take on the music was that I wanted to accompany the level rather than overpower it which is why I toned it back just a hair.

I'm glad that people are liking the ocean waves I put in. Building the level linearly put this as the very first thing I made for the level. It is completely unnecessary in the overall picture and chews up a little bit of thermo that may be better used elsewhere but I've worked to keep it through the different fat cutting sessions I've had to do on this level.


In fact, I was surprised I continued playing it after watching your fantastic ocean shore scene right at the beginning. What did I do? I tried to jump in it, and got gassed! lol

Anyway... you seem to have spent a lot of time with your panoramic camera angles, and the great majority of them were great. You used some good tricks, too. Nothing too 'in your face', but more subtle, more understated, almost modest.

Some of the black gas parts and design reminded me of ICO (that's a plus, by the way), and your music choice was spot on.

Thank you for taking the time to play the level. Iím glad that the play was enjoyable. The gas on the ocean wave is a must as I figured the first impulse the most players will have will be to jump out onto the waves.

The three separate waves with all of their pieces use up enough thermo that I didnít want to extend it any further and as such I canít let the player see much more than they already do or theyíll see the end of the level.

One of the five or six different intentions/objectives I had going into this level was that I wanted to make a level that occupied the same spiritual environment as the Ico/SOTC levels without doing a rip-off of the same games. Iíve used visual elements from both of those levels to try and invoke this type of connection because I think it will help set the theme/setting better for the player.

There are also themes, images and elements in the level from a couple other sources though some of them are fairly obscure.


one of the light "keys" didn't work the first time I tried it (the one with the red, yellow, blue rotating pieces)
What mistervista has said is correct, when you get all three pieces aligned properly and the blue lights lit the puzzle will complete and you can progress.

Can you explain a bit about what you saw so I can check if it is a bug or not? The solution to the puzzle is straightforward from the current starting point unless you start mixing up the different prism. I can PM you more information if you want.

Delirium
08-10-2009, 10:31 PM
looks good btw can you tell me what F4F means? :-/

Trindall
08-10-2009, 10:38 PM
looks good btw can you tell me what F4F means? :-/
F4F is a system implemented in this forum meaning "Feedback 4 Feedback".

Levels that have this prefix on their post are a part of this feedback system.

The person posting that thread is committing themselves to give feedback to players who post feedback on their level. Usually a poster will include in their feedback post if they are looking for feedback a level of their own.

It is a very good tit for tat method the promotes a lot of feedback from various members and it helps out players who are new to the site or may not know many people.

F4F works both ways, if you are looking for feedback on your level you can easily go to other F4F posts and post feedback on them to solicit feedback on your own levels.

I hope this helps out.

Cheers.

Delirium
08-10-2009, 10:41 PM
oh thanks. wish i knew that befor i just posted my level on here just now -_-

Trindall
08-10-2009, 10:51 PM
oh thanks. wish i knew that befor i just posted my level on here just now -_-

You may edit your original level posting to change it into or or out of the F4F. Open up your level post and click on the 'Edit' button in the lower right of the post.

Select the 'Go Advanced' option to enter the details page. From here you can change the level prefix to be yes or no for F4F.

Once you set this parameter then save the level post and it will update to reflect. If you have further questions I'll be happy to help but PMs would be better than in this level thread.

There is also a sticky at the top of this forum that may answer your questions.

Good luck on your level.

ZipCity
08-11-2009, 12:29 AM
I meant I got the three prisms in the right order, with all 3 blue lights on, but for whatever reason, they didn't merge and reflect the light. When I restarted the level and did the exact same thing, it worked

OmegaSlayer
08-11-2009, 06:13 AM
I meant I got the three prisms in the right order, with all 3 blue lights on, but for whatever reason, they didn't merge and reflect the light. When I restarted the level and did the exact same thing, it worked

That's what's happened to me twice.
The first time while rotating the prysm I had the blue one hitting the red one and twisting it a bit out of his place.
The second time it didn't just work.

I suppose it has to make disappear the darkness on the upper floor...

Anyway I didn't have the time to play it a third time, but the artstyle is very particular and the concept is cool even if not 100% original.
The coolest stuff is the gas/darkness that has form of claws and really moves in an awesome way.

Visually it's a lot better than your previous levels, that perhaps were more fun platforming wise.

You must wait until I play it again, for now I rated it 4 stars, 2 times and no tag...I'm sorry.

Shredator
08-11-2009, 07:47 AM
Very original, I really enjoyed playing it. Definitely your best level to date.

I thought your use of black gas, just in general, was pretty awesome and well done. There was some gas in a few places there didn't need to be though, I got killed by little pockets in corners that weren't visible a few times through the level.

One thing I felt lacking was the hero's incentive to drive away the dark. Sure they're dumped on some strange island and really have nothing else to do, but isn't there someone to save, some threat by the darkness? The darkness is inhabiting a seemingly uninhabited land minding it's own business, not even bothering you to begin with. If there are inhabitants that you're working to save, I'd like to meet them, or at least know that they exist.

I thought you used the light very well in the level, there are a few levels that have played with it, but I don't think any were this well done.

The ruins falling apart during the boss was definitely welcomed, and the boss in general was definitely original. It's nice to see a boss that doesn't include spamming it with a paintinator while jumping over plasma balls...

I didn't encounter any glitches in it while playing, so I really can't complain there. Very nice level, it was fun to play!

Trindall
08-11-2009, 06:48 PM
I thought your use of black gas, just in general, was pretty awesome and well done. There was some gas in a few places there didn't need to be though, I got killed by little pockets in corners that weren't visible a few times through the level.

One thing I felt lacking was the hero's incentive to drive away the dark. Sure they're dumped on some strange island and really have nothing else to do, but isn't there someone to save, some threat by the darkness? The darkness is inhabiting a seemingly uninhabited land minding it's own business, not even bothering you to begin with. If there are inhabitants that you're working to save, I'd like to meet them, or at least know that they exist.
Thank you for the play on the level Shredator and your feedback.
Iíve gotten some other comments similar to yours in terms of meeting or freeing the inhabitants of the place and I agree that the Heroís motivation isnít overly well argued in the level.

I think that the Heroís incentive to drive away the dark, besides being the clichť Ďright thing to doí can also be looked at this way. The Hero wakes up stranded on a beach and there is a bad monster thing that wants to kill them if they leave the beach. Well the Hero can stay on the beach forever, maybe try to swim away or venture inland, through the bad guy, to see if they can find food or a way out of the land.

I donít express these things explicitly in the level and Iím looking to the player to fill in some of this from their own perspective.

Also the story that Iíve set up for this level wouldnít work out with having people living but trapped for the Hero to either meet or to save. I want this level to focus on the interaction between the Hero and Nemesis as well as the relationship that Nemesis has with the land.

Nemesis has devoured the land so long ago and stripped it of life that it no longer has a reason for existing yet has been in the land so long that it can no longer move on. Nemesis is a being whoís purpose, to extinguish life, has been taken away by his own nature and it has been alone in the dead land for such a long time that it yearns for release even if that means its own death.

The Hero is the key to Nemesisí release yet by its own nature it canít help but try to destroy the Hero thus re-enforcing its own entrapment. (How many other Heroís have come to the land and failed prior?)

Again parts of this are revealed through careful exploration of the level and through Nemesisí words and actions while other parts I leave up to interpretation by the player.

We have the Hero who may not eliminate the evil out of any Ďgoodnessí but rather out of selfish preservation and the Nemesis who tries to kill the Hero not out of any desire to but rather because it is a creature trapped by its nature. It is an interesting dynamic and, Iím hoping, moves away of many over-used plot points.




I meant I got the three prisms in the right order, with all 3 blue lights on, but for whatever reason, they didn't merge and reflect the light. When I restarted the level and did the exact same thing, it worked
That's what's happened to me twice.
The first time while rotating the prysm I had the blue one hitting the red one and twisting it a bit out of his place.
The second time it didn't just work.

I suppose it has to make disappear the darkness on the upper floor...

Anyway I didn't have the time to play it a third time, but the artstyle is very particular and the concept is cool even if not 100% original.
The coolest stuff is the gas/darkness that has form of claws and really moves in an awesome way.

Visually it's a lot better than your previous levels, that perhaps were more fun platforming wise.

You must wait until I play it again, for now I rated it 4 stars, 2 times and no tag...I'm sorry.

Iím sorry that this puzzle didnít work properly for both of you. Iíve looked into it and havenít found a cause yet. When all three blue lights are lit up it should activate the next sequence regardless of whether the prisms were knocked about during rotation. (I did fix that part.)

Iím hoping this isnít a matter of objects randomly breaking themselves after an extended period of time due to some wonky phsyics of LBP. Iíll keep looking into this to see what I can find.

Iím hoping that things work out well for you should you decide to try the level again. My apologies.

OmegaSlayer
08-12-2009, 03:44 PM
Don't worry man, I'm trying to release a beta, and a certain part that syncronization based, always goes out of sync when I republish the level.
The glitches are killing this game.

Trindall
08-12-2009, 04:01 PM
Don't worry man, I'm trying to release a beta, and a certain part that syncronization based, always goes out of sync when I republish the level.
The glitches are killing this game.

I made a copy of this level last night, tore out apart and moved this puzzle spot so that it was in front of the logic, set the start checkpoint at this spot and then played the level.

Everything works fine when played unless I sat there for about 8 to 10 minutes. (Sometimes longer)

After a certain point in time there was a piston that would only extend about halfway when activated and as such it wasn't registering the completed puzzle. (Nothing obstructing it at all.) Things do sometimes start mis-behaving when the thermometer is full and this may just be one of those things.

I built a whole new mechanism and even set it up so that should a piston not extend the full distance that the sensors will still pick it up.

All tests after that change have worked out fine regardless of how long I waited.

My hope is that this is no longer a problem for anyone playing the level.

Plasmavore
08-13-2009, 10:51 AM
Hi Trindall, just triedout your level after you gave me some feedback on mine.


Pros
-I love the puzzles and the way we had to take the light through the level.

-I thought the way that the rock appeared over bits you had just gone through wwas genius.

- The way you made the darkness int hands was really cool and made it feel more alive.

- I lvoed the way you had to work out how to kill the boss. (Took me a few minutes to think, lol)

-The bit inside the castle was fun.

Cons
-On the bit where you have to jump across the pillars shown in the second picture, I fell off quite a lot and one time got right to the end, and then being killed by the gas. I think some checkpoints would be useful here.

Over all I loved it 5 Stars and Heart. Tagged Brilliant.

OmegaSlayer
08-13-2009, 03:54 PM
I finally played it again and everything was smooth.
Actually the 3 prism puzzle ws broken the first time I played it since the 3 prism didn't combine.
Anyway 5 stars.

Onymega
08-13-2009, 09:30 PM
Very nice and moody level, made me think of ICO and SOTC.
In the beginning I thought it was a bit slow but after completing the level I understood that the slower pace suited this level pretty well.
The 'evil' in the level was 'all over the place', it felt claustrophobic and I liked using the light to push him back.

Pros :
- Mood
- Evil well done
- Light use and simple but fitting puzzles
- Final Battles
- Pace
- Had no technical problems while I played the level

Cons:
- Easy platforming
- Staircase annoyed me a bit
- Would have like a bit more story, but that's just me :rolleyes:

So I really recommend this to all, even if you only like the fast paced levels.
You sometimes need to slow down and if you decide to do so, play Lightbringer.

Trindall
08-13-2009, 10:10 PM
Very nice and moody level, made me think of ICO and SOTC.
In the beginning I thought it was a bit slow but after completing the level I understood that the slower pace suited this level pretty well.
The 'evil' in the level was 'all over the place', it felt claustrophobic and I liked using the light to push him back.

Pros :
- Mood
- Evil well done
- Light use and simple but fitting puzzles
- Final Battles
- Pace
- Had no technical problems while I played the level

Cons:
- Easy platforming
- Staircase annoyed me a bit
- Would have like a bit more story, but that's just me :rolleyes:

So I really recommend this to all, even if you only like the fast paced levels.
You sometimes need to slow down and if you decide to do so, play Lightbringer.
Thank you for the feedback and I agree with you that the spiral staircase can cause a bit of annoyance.

Did you find the library annex to read up on a bit of the back-story of the level? Admittedly the extent of the story is implied or only alluded to in small parts but there is a bit to the level's story that I think most people never see.

It's not a common story of good winning out over evil, though that is what happens in this level but that is just the last chapter of the story. It is about an evil that won over good and managed to get what it thought it wanted.

But then the evil finds out that it was trapped by it's own greed and longs for a reversal or release.

I did make the platform easier as I wanted this to be a reflection on the lethargy of Nemesis, that it was trying to kill the Hero as it had no choice in the matter, but not to try too hard.

I'm hoping that in retrospect that the player will see that the whole level is basically just an extended boss fight as well as an exploration of an empty, ancient land.



Cons
-On the bit where you have to jump across the pillars shown in the second picture, I fell off quite a lot and one time got right to the end, and then being killed by the gas. I think some checkpoints would be useful here.
I'll look into this section but it is really a short distance from the last checkpoint to the spot you mention that it may not work out well. Waiting a bit before the gas claw and waiting until it is gone works out well enough.

I think what may happen is that players run along the top of the platform thinking the way is clear because get there at a time when the claw is in the up position. The claw comes down and gets them but I'm expecting that the second time they come through the area to slow down a bit and wait for the right timing.

Thank you for the comment about the rock and stone partitions that raise or lower as you enter the grotto by the sea and the dark keep. This is the principle that amazingflyingpoo uses in his LBL series and I thought it was a good way to separate space.

@OmegaSlayer
Did the tri-color prism puzzle not work properly for you within the day or did it not work earlier from an earlier play session?

I'm hoping that the replacement AND gate I put in has eliminated this particular bug.

I'm glad to hear that you were able to play the level through completely after that without any problems. Thank you for the time you've put into the level.

Cheers.

JKthree
08-16-2009, 05:30 AM
I saw this on cool levels and it was just beautiful, when I played Tomb of Light (can't remember the creators name at the moment) long ago and did the reflecting light part, i always said to myself "A Level based on that concept would be amazing, moving around prisims to direct beams of light to continue..."

Although i was expecting the ending to be a little different instead of one final beam to finish the job (though the bright light during the bosses defeat fitted perfectly).

Something along the lines of a light beam hits a sword making it glowing and powerful and one quick slice takes down the darkness for good. Probably why i thought of this is cause of Final Fantasy 4(with darkness, light, heroes, and one of Cecil's weapons is called Lightbringer)

But it still was amazing, a couple spots were a bit confusing, it took a little while to figure out (like the beginning starting up the beams of light for the 1st time to take down the wall)

I ain't looking a feedback on my levels (they aren't ready to be put on the showcase anyway) but still I rarely heart levels and your level swept me away :)

rtm223
08-16-2009, 09:08 PM
Hey, I played this earlier and really liked it. I LOVE the set design, the kind of semi-abstract but detailed buildings and the crumbling archways were beautiful - really well done. Oh and the winches where they actually move like they are on a pulley - completely unnecessary and I love it. I played around with a similar idea with a cog that pulled up a lift so it actually looked like a mechanical winch thing but never used it. Was a really nice touch, used very well in this level.

I like the appearing / disappearing veneers on the level sections, although I'm not sure why the beach had one - it's outside so logicaly it shouldn't, but it's not a biggy. The other thing about those is that the first one scared the bejesus out of me. Could you perhaps shorten the pistons by a tiny bit, so they still look flush, but don't actually hit and make a big clanging noise? :p

Over all the gameplay was good, considering that you are essentially doing the same thing over and over, the puzzles were actually very varied and clearly a lot of thought went into them. Issues I found with that:

The prisms that rotate don't rotate the light correctly, forgive me for being a physics geek but that just felt wrong. I doubt many people will notice though so you are probably safe :p
The first puzzle was rather obtuse. I had no idea what the objective was and I basically solved it by trial and error. In fact I genuinely thought that the three suns was related to that room, not the final boss, so that was a little confusing.
On the final boss, and somewhere else I think, I was trying to move the prism, but it only went where it wanted to go. Whilst this wasn't a big deal it kind of took away some of the immersion for me and I wasn't sure why it was necessary


Now this reads like a very negative review - all my feedback does, I look for little things to point out, it's up to you whether you agree and whether you think anything needs changing. Regardless of everything I've said, I gave the level 5 stars and hearted because it is a great concept (I'd love to do something similar - actually inspired by the mirror puzzles in Soul Reaver - in the future), executed very well and with great imagination and set in a beautiful world.

My F4F thread is in my sig, but read the note on F4F before you start, it might save you a lot of tears and frustration :p

Frazer951
08-17-2009, 04:29 AM
Hey,

I just played your level (thanks for playing mine) and I have to say that I walked away from the level pretty pleased. I do have a few minor gripes with it (and mnay of them have already been brought up but for the sake of the review I will mention the things that I noticed).
First of all, I really liked ho your had panels to cover the next set of the scene. I thought was a really neat idea and a smart way to transition. I also like the mood of this level and youruse of the gas tool. Really well done.
I also enjoyed the light puzzle mechanic in this game, I thought it was really cool. Having said that, it would be neat to see you do more with it. For instance, how cool would it be if the player got to drag around a mirror to solve a puzzle (a la the zelda mirror shield) or if you could use a portable light to kill enemies. Don't worry, I am not detracting any points for the stuff you didn't do, but it would be neat to see someone give ideas like that a shot. In a sequel perhaps?
I liked your visual style, and I liked how you could just make out the shapes of hands in the gas.
One thing that I think would really help this level would be to add some sound effects to the lights (a low synth noise perhaps) just to give the power of th lights some weight. I know that light doesn't make any noise, but I think a nice little sound effect would make it seem like this kind of light really was capable of pushing back a dark force. Do you know what I mean?
Anyways, the level was great, and while I think a little bit more polishing is in order, I really liked a lot of stuff about it. Keep up the fantastic work.

GruntosUK
08-17-2009, 09:16 AM
I played it last night and loved it. Like MisterVista above, I spent quite a long time admiring the beach, that must have taken a while to do, and the effect looked great.I thought the whole feel of a world destroyed was conveyed really well, it felt lonely and desolate, and the ruined buildings and archway only added to the immersion. Some of the camera angles you use to show the depth and size of the structures were excellent. The whole concept of using light throughout the level was really well implemented, and the puzzles to achieve it where also very well done and kept in with the whole feel of the level. The boss was also good, I liked the look of it and the way to defeat it.

I never had any problems really, nothing broke or hindered my progress at all.

*****, brilliant and hearted.

CCubbage
08-17-2009, 05:32 PM
You mean the level doesn't spin around? How disappointing....


Just kidding. Played this last night and loved every minute. I've seen "connect the light" mechanics in a level before, but whoa! This is a FANTASTIC design. It sort of reminded me of the feeling I got when playing Ico for the first time.... kind of a desolate, creepy environment.

Loved the beach. When the level first opened up I moved to the left and just stood there and watched for a bit.

From beginning to end it all worked flawlessly for me, and I loved the art direction.

Anyway, not necessarily looking for feedback. Just wanted to stop in and give you my impression. Great stuff!

Definately 5 star and a heart material!

Trindall
08-17-2009, 05:53 PM
@JKthree
Thank you for the plays and I'm glad that you liked the level. I'm glad that the level brought images of the FF game you played to your mind. As I looked into that name as a potential name for the level I found that there are quite a bit of associations of Lightbringer with the fallen angel Lucifer and, of-course, an armor set used in World of Warcraft.

I have seen some good implementations of swords in LBP but I don't think I'd have gone that route as I wanted the light itself to be the weapon rather than passing the light off into an external vehicle.

@rtm223
The grotto by the sea is intended to be a cave, shrine, vault type space and I use the use the veneers I want the player to view the room as an internal space rather than an extension of the beach scene.

I have looked into the annoying banging sound made by them as they raise/lower and they are definitely not hitting anything at either the top or bottom. What I believe is going on is that the two faces are bumping at some point against each other as they simultaneously raise/lower. Iím playing with these faces to keep them covering the outside faces but not hitting each other as they move.

ďThe prisms that rotate don't rotate the light correctlyĒ Iím not sure I understand exactly which part you are referring to with this one. I think you may be talking about the liberties Iíve taken with physics where in some areas Iím using prism looking devices at reflective devices rather than the more proper refractive objects. And in other places I use objects to funnel the light into different direction a la fiber optic light guiding.

Iím also using the light gates and crystals in a capacitive sense as they take a bit of time to charge and pass on the light. Light as energy by natural and magical means I guess. I donít think I rotate light in the level but that may not have been what you are referring to.

ďThe first puzzle was rather obtuse.Ē I can see why the lines of the prophecy from the dark crystal can cause confusion with the player as Iím not really explaining things very explicitly. I think that this is a victim of my intention for the level to be one for the player to figure out on their own without as much overt hand-holding and to cut down on the amount of magic mouth objects used. Iím counting on the playersí curiosity and exploration to teach them the concept of guiding the light so that that they have that background established before they leave the grotto by the sea. Iíll need to think how I can alleviate some of this confusion in the level.

Lastly on the objects that move only in the direction that I want them to such as the cart in the final sequence and a few other object I did that as a compromise and to help direct the player. The original problem is that these moving objects are too big and heavy for the player to move on their own and if I make it such that the player can move.

Iím also wanting to maintain the image of the light passing through each gate and as such I want the objects to reach and stop at fairly precise locations so I take the motor skills out of the playersí hands yet keep make the player do the work of reaching and maintaining the grab on each object. It does pull out a bit from the freedom of the level.

This is a great set of feedback and Iíve also got a trunk load of feedback to write up for your level though it may still be a bit as Iím a bit busy at work I expect it to be done presently however.

@Frazer951
Thank you for the feedback. I do think that there are a huge amount of gameplay possibilities yet to be done in regards to using light for puzzle and story related purposes. One of the things I did want to have was the player moving a mirror object around to pass on the light in different spots but that didnít make it past the concept stage. The layout of the level and my need for controlling and ensuring that the light path not get buggered up ended up with me not giving the player that amount of freedom. It would be a great device though.

I do think that the light could give off some SFX though I think Iíd have to keep that to the light gates. It would fit in with them charging up with the power of the light and passing it on. It would take quite a bit of sound objects to line the whole path that the light takes and I really only have room in the thermo to put in about ten vertices or a switch or two. Iíll see what is viable. Incidentally enough there is a pulsing SFX used for the light beams that the player sets up in the final boss fight but I think that it is a bit subtle and drowned out by the rest of the noise going on.

@GrantosUK
Iím glad to hear that the level played out well for you and that you enjoyed the time. Iíve gotten a lot of very enthusiastic replies on the levelís comments board and also lot of complaints about it being too hard to understand or not working. The level has a fairly sizable frustrating tag as well as the usual assortment of throwaway tags.

It is nice to hear back a response of an experience that was enjoyable. I appreciate that.

@CCubbage
Thanks for the enthusiastic response to the level. One of my objectives was to make a level that occupied the same spiritual/experiential ground as Ico/SoTC.

Ico wasn't a mainstream success yet it has a huge following among gamers. I want this level to be accessible to most players yet still hold to the quiet exploration and puzzle solving of this and other similar games.

mistervista
08-17-2009, 05:57 PM
Hi again Trindall. I just wanted to say if you want to return feedback I have a new level out now called PLASMAVILLE so would like it on that one if you don't mind. Thanks.

Trindall
08-17-2009, 06:07 PM
Hi again Trindall. I just wanted to say if you want to return feedback I have a new level out now called PLASMAVILLE so would like it on that one if you don't mind. Thanks.
I'd certainly love to return feedback. I apologize if I overlooked an earlier request.

I thought that I'd been keeping up to date on the feedback going out versus coming in but I'll rectify this oversight. I'm looking forward to playing PLASMAVILLE today and I'll have feedback presently.

Cheers.

Morgana25
08-20-2009, 04:49 PM
Got a chance to finish this level last night (I'd played most of it earlier but had gotten stuck - my fault though not the levels.) I must have been having an off night because I had no problems at all last night.

+ Great story
+ beautiful light puzzles
+ nice use of sound effects on the darkness
+ I like the open feeling of the bridge area contrasts nicely with the two inside areas
+ boss is a neat idea

I had fun playing and loved how the initial crystal thing reminded me of the beautiful purple crystal from the film "The Dark Crystal" Nicely shaped. 5 stars & hearted from me. :)

Lotus_Flow3r
08-24-2009, 05:17 PM
Ahh a great refreshing level.

I love to take time out and do puzzle adventures every once in awhile.

What struck me 1st was the atmosphere and enigma, two fave qualities of mine. You do this well with music, colour, pacing and storytelling.

I got two other game feels from this, 1, ICO and 2, Quake. Two classics!

I loved the dialogue and thought it was quite professional.

Great design! I noticed a lot of detail and your work has paid off.

The only bad thing i can note is that it may get repetitive but, hopefully, the way you handle each light task should prevent most from feeling that.

Enjoyed it a lot.

Trindall
08-24-2009, 07:58 PM
Ahh a great refreshing level.

I love to take time out and do puzzle adventures every once in awhile.

What struck me 1st was the atmosphere and enigma, two fave qualities of mine. You do this well with music, colour, pacing and storytelling.

I got two other game feels from this, 1, ICO and 2, Quake. Two classics!

I loved the dialogue and thought it was quite professional.

Great design! I noticed a lot of detail and your work has paid off.

The only bad thing i can note is that it may get repetitive but, hopefully, the way you handle each light task should prevent most from feeling that.

Enjoyed it a lot.
Wow, I've never thought about Quake when I was putting this together but I think I can see what you are talking about. (Sort-of)

I did try hard to make a level that inhabited the same intellectual space as Ico/SoTC though I do pull a bit of imagery and thematic elements from The Dark Crystal.

I'm glad that you enjoyed the level and I do see where this one can get repetitive. I think a bit of the atmosphere and logic devices are in at the expense of some better quality platforming sequences.



Got a chance to finish this level last night (I'd played most of it earlier but had gotten stuck - my fault though not the levels.) I must have been having an off night because I had no problems at all last night.

+ Great story
+ beautiful light puzzles
+ nice use of sound effects on the darkness
+ I like the open feeling of the bridge area contrasts nicely with the two inside areas
+ boss is a neat idea

I had fun playing and loved how the initial crystal thing reminded me of the beautiful purple crystal from the film "The Dark Crystal" Nicely shaped. 5 stars & hearted from me.

I saw the picture that you and your group uploaded to the level and I was glad to see that ya'll were smiling at the time.

I do hope that you were also able to play through in single player mode as I've noticed that with a lot of people running around that the camera zones get a bit short circuited which can make the level a bit harder than I intended or less cinematic in areas.

I'm glad that you did like the Dark Crystal replica I made in this level. I'm using the light that is generated from the Dark Crystal to unite the three suns in the inner sanctum of Nemesis to drive out the evil that eats the land.

This is similar in nature to the storyline in the Dark Crystal where a shard of the crystal is re-united with the whole piece during an alignment of the world's three suns. This same conjunction of the suns is shown in the end as brilliant shaft of light illuminating the Dark Crystal.

I'm hoping that these connections as well as similar connections to Ico based images and themes will create in the player a frame of mind that I'm intending the level to be viewed with.

Thanks again.

Lotus_Flow3r
08-25-2009, 06:06 PM
@Trindall

Quake due to scenery only.

If your going to go for atmosphere at the expense of platforming, im all for it!

Just check out my level 'A Step Back In Time' and see how i did it.

(___NEO___)
08-25-2009, 10:10 PM
there is nothing more to say that haven't been said....
just one thing:

godlike

Noroibito
08-30-2009, 01:57 PM
Hi Trindall! I have to say that i really enjoyed playing your level today! So on to the feedback.

Like said many times, the waves were great and make even more anxious for water! Can't say I didn't jump a little by the unexpected gassing. The eviroments were nice but it felt like something was lacking. I'm not sure what though, but it like the large scale details. The gameplay was a nice twist. This was probably the first kind of guide the light level that i played that uses the same light till the end. Puzzles were fun and I didn't encounter any problems! The boss at the end was quite nice too, but like others have said the checkpoint before it was a little wonky. Although the story was playing out nicely! I ended kinda anticlimaticly, but I don't put that against you! I think it's really hard to storytell so..yar.. >.> Anyways in all I thooughroughly enjoyed playing your level and hope to see more!
:star::star::star::star:/Beautiful

Oh and are you up for some F4F? If so do you think you can play and give feedback on my level: SIREN: [The Lost World] (Episode 2-Otherside) More vavueable information is in my signature below. I'd really appreciate it! thanks!

Trindall
08-31-2009, 07:49 PM
Hi Trindall! I have to say that i really enjoyed playing your level today! So on to the feedback.

Like said many times, the waves were great and make even more anxious for water! Can't say I didn't jump a little by the unexpected gassing. The eviroments were nice but it felt like something was lacking. I'm not sure what though, but it like the large scale details. The gameplay was a nice twist. This was probably the first kind of guide the light level that i played that uses the same light till the end. Puzzles were fun and I didn't encounter any problems! The boss at the end was quite nice too, but like others have said the checkpoint before it was a little wonky. Although the story was playing out nicely! I ended kinda anticlimaticly, but I don't put that against you! I think it's really hard to storytell so..yar.. >.> Anyways in all I thooughroughly enjoyed playing your level and hope to see more!
:star::star::star::star:/Beautiful

Oh and are you up for some F4F? If so do you think you can play and give feedback on my level: SIREN: [The Lost World] (Episode 2-Otherside) More vavueable information is in my signature below. I'd really appreciate it! thanks!
I do think that there are large sections of the level that are a bit bare on the fine details. I did give up on that aspect while trying to make the level a bit larger in size and length then it may have been otherwise.

Is the wonkiness of the last checkpoint due to trying to get back to the cart after dying or something different?

I'd certainly be happy to play your latest SIREN level. I'm looking forward to seeing what you've come up with. I'll play it through and get feedback for you presently.

Noroibito
08-31-2009, 08:56 PM
Is the wonkiness of the last checkpoint due to trying to get back to the cart after dying or something different?


Well the thing is that I was playing with friends. When I died and the others didn't the camera somehow refused to show the checkpoint yet we still got spawned. It was a real hassle getting back to the cart too, I though simply going right would do it but it seemed like I got stuck? So this created a bit of havoc but in the end I managed to defeat the boss!.....after my friends go kicked out by lag..>.<. So I guess My problem is a multi-player hassle?

Kefkaas
09-01-2009, 03:04 PM
This level looks very awesome. I can't wait to get home and try it.

Powershifter
09-01-2009, 03:54 PM
Just finished, here are my thoughts:

Pros:
- Story was great .. and written well too! You don't see that too often in LBP .. especially the poem from the book
- Graphics looked amazing! The whole level design was just top notch. I loved the Prince of Persia feel it had throughout
- Gameplay worked really well. I didn't have any trouble moving between the layers or making any of the jumps
- The puzzles were great! Not too difficult, but executed really well
- The dark enemies and the end boss were really cool. I loved the idea of how you take the boss down!
- Overall the sounds were good and didn't take away from the experience .. if anything, the lack of sound in some places really added to the lonely atmosphere - which is what I think you were going for
- I loved the water in the beginning - I haven't seen anyone else do something similar
- At first I thought the transitions from going outside to the inside were a bit odd (with the wall that slams down depending on where you are), but after a while I thought it was a cool idea because it didn't allow you to see what was coming, and didn't distract you from where you just were
- The pulley system with the chains was done really well .. I really liked that. It actually looked like the chain was wrapped around (even though I know it wasn't)
- The fact that the light traveled from the beginning of the level the whole way through the end was brilliant.
- I liked how you got rewarded throughout the level for figuring out the puzzles, rather than just having random score bubbles scattered around

Cons:
- Really only one thing I noticed was that after you defeat the boss, some stones fall down to the left of the screen and block the path of the light. Granted the light still shines through, but it just seemed odd to me because we know that light shouldn't shine through stone. But, hey, that's just me being very picky!
- I couldn't decide if I liked background you chose or not. But not really a big deal.

Question:
- I'm wondering if we will ever see a sequel? I could see the hero building another boat and setting sail for another adventure....

Overall:
5 :star:'s
Tag: Beautiful
Hearted you and the level
Extra note: This was probably one of my favorite levels to date - I'm just a big fan of a mysterious, great looking and puzzle filled level

F4F - Check out my Real Myst: Channelwood Age level when you get the chance - there's a link in my signature below - Thanks!

Trindall
09-01-2009, 06:36 PM
Well the thing is that I was playing with friends. When I died and the others didn't the camera somehow refused to show the checkpoint yet we still got spawned. It was a real hassle getting back to the cart too, I though simply going right would do it but it seemed like I got stuck? So this created a bit of havoc but in the end I managed to defeat the boss!.....after my friends go kicked out by lag..>.<. So I guess My problem is a multi-player hassle?
I think part of this is a multi-player hassle though I have changed the level to extend the checkpoint higher and to the right. Hopefully it will be easier to get back into the action. Part of the problem is that I have pillars in all three layers and they will crumble over time so I can't always predict their final configuration.

I just hope that the checkpoint is visible enough and high enough such that the player can jump back in without too much hassle.

I also cleaned up some annoying SFX that were switching to proximity mode after the one shot switches that activated them get destroyed. Something I had meant to do for a bit but was burnt out on the level.


Cons:
- Really only one thing I noticed was that after you defeat the boss, some stones fall down to the left of the screen and block the path of the light. Granted the light still shines through, but it just seemed odd to me because we know that light shouldn't shine through stone. But, hey, that's just me being very picky!
- I couldn't decide if I liked background you chose or not. But not really a big deal.

Question:
- I'm wondering if we will ever see a sequel? I could see the hero building another boat and setting sail for another adventure....
Thank you for the great amount of feedback. It is nice to hear a bit of detail in regards to what worked and what didn't.

You are right about the light going through rocks. I was surprised to see that the light isn't blocked by building materials as I built the level though I used that a bit to hide the lights in the level.

I did consider that the falling debris would block the light path but I couldn't think of any reasonable way to prevent this and still get the destructive effect I was after. In the end I banked on most players not noticing or considering this when they play.

And a sequel? I've lightly thought on the subject though I still haven't had enough non-building-levels time to jump back in. I don't think I can justify more run-ins with Nemesis as the player has taken care of that in this level.

I could do more light-bending but it may just be capitalizing on the gimmick from the first level. I liked the visual style as it was easy for my fairly non-artistic abilities to do but a sequel needs to progress the story or build on the elements not rest on them.

I don't know if there will be a sequel yet. In the canon of the level the original inhabitants of the land waited for the Hero to clean up the danger rather than do the work on their own and their pride and arrogance allowed Nemesis to grow in strength and hold until it was too late to fight back.

Possibly in the end days the remaining survivors fled the land attempting to seal it up behind them to imprison Nemesis. (Do you hear strains of Shadow of the Colossus?)

Possibly the player can attempt to escape the dead land through the seals in place to prevent escape. (After all the land is dead and the Hero needs to eat and drink. Wood is nearly non-existent in this land as it has long ago rotted away so a boat is out of the question.)

It is a subtle irony that the prophesied Hero wins out against the darkness but ends up being trapped in the same dead prison that the darkness occupied because of that.

Possibly there is enough to hang a sequel. Time will tell how this pans out.

I'd be happy to play your level for feedback. I'll get to that presently. Cheers.

Powershifter
09-01-2009, 07:21 PM
I like your idea of having to escape the island. I wouldn't use light puzzles again, but something unique - and only you can figure that one out. hmm.. maybe there is a nearby island that the hero can swim to?......

If you try my level and the last sticker doesn't work, I appologize .. I need to fix this and can't until a little later today. If you'd like to wait until it's fixed I understand! Thanks!
EDIT: fixed my level .. hopefully it all works now!

Trindall
09-01-2009, 08:19 PM
I like your idea of having to escape the island. I wouldn't use light puzzles again, but something unique - and only you can figure that one out. hmm.. maybe there is a nearby island that the hero can swim to?......

If you try my level and the last sticker doesn't work, I appologize .. I need to fix this and can't until a little later today. If you'd like to wait until it's fixed I understand! Thanks!
EDIT: fixed my level .. hopefully it all works now!

All good thoughts to think about. I'll have free time to play through your level after my kids go to sleep so it'll still be another nine hours or so to go. You'll have time to fix the sticker if you are still doing it later today. If I do play it before the sticker situation is fixed I'm sure things'll be fine.

I can always replay once the sticker part is fixed.

Cheers.

Edit based on your Edit: You can disregard my previous statements then. I look forward to playing your level.

poorjack
09-11-2009, 01:05 AM
one of the best adventure levels ever made.

gonzinger
09-23-2009, 09:38 AM
Hi, Trindall.

Beautiful level! It reminds me to ICO and Shadow of the colossus.

The light puzzles are well made. I liked the boss and some areas.

However I found it a little boring because everything is huge and you spend a lot of time walking from here to there.
Perhaps it is part of the ICO ambientation, but I prefer a faster gameplay.

The rest is fine and it's one of the best adventure levels I have played in Little Big Planet Community. Good job!

Trindall
09-28-2009, 06:48 PM
Hi, Trindall.

Beautiful level! It reminds me to ICO and Shadow of the colossus.

The light puzzles are well made. I liked the boss and some areas.

However I found it a little boring because everything is huge and you spend a lot of time walking from here to there.
Perhaps it is part of the ICO ambientation, but I prefer a faster gameplay.

The rest is fine and it's one of the best adventure levels I have played in Little Big Planet Community. Good job!

Thanks for the feedback on this level. Yes, I think that the play experience I was aiming for was more of a quiet, introspective level and as such I can see your negative response to the pace as understandable.

I appreciate the time you took to play the level. Thanks again.

Cheers.