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srgt_poptart
10-24-2009, 02:30 AM
You probably all know about 2 player puzzles. (If you're living under a rock, it's a puzzle that requires two or more players to complete.) These puzzles don't have to be puzzles, but rather ways to insure there are at least two players in your level. I was thinking about if it was possible to reverse engineer this, and have it so no more than two players can be in the level, so if 3 or 4 players entered, they could not play through the level. This is a simple, fast and moderately reliable system I made.:)


http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1600&stc=1&d=979703594


This is the basic set-up. It uses springs to measure the weight of the players at one time.(You can't see it, but there is a switch at the bottom. A block of dissolve holds the platform in place until it should be released.


http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1601&d=1256351183

This is the system while activated. As there is only one player, me, the lights will not turn on.

http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1602&stc=1&d=979703787

To test this, I used a block that weighs almost exactly the same as sackboy. I have yet to test with three sackpeople, but I will. It is made of 2 blocks of metal, a half a block of wood, half a block or cardboard, and a quarter of a block of cardboard.

http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1603&stc=1&d=979703860

This is the system when activated. As you can see, the lights have turned on, and the springs are compressed.

This system is not full proof, and it may glitch. There are also loopholes, like you could invite a friend after the checkpoint, but even then you could add a close level post. I am going to incorporate this into a level, and will update this when I publish it. Until then, happy creating!:idea:

lbpholic
10-24-2009, 10:08 AM
hey this looks really good did you come up with this on your own if you did your really clever lol well done if you publish this can you post the name of the level thanks a lot

KQuinn94Z
10-24-2009, 10:11 AM
Nice job there. I'm making a series based completely on 2 player so this idea could come in handy for me.... thanks.

Treas
10-24-2009, 11:27 AM
I've experimented with this technique quite some time ago. As you've already stated, it's not quite fool-proof. The main issue here is sackboy's ability of jumping. A landing sackboy will exert more force on the platform than a standing sackboy, whereas a sackboy in mid-air will not exert any force at all.

In order to get rid of this problem, you would either have to somehow disable jumps, reduce the effect of jumping to a minimum or make a contraption which cannot be influenced by the process of jumping.

I didn't yet experiment with any other methods, but I think stiff pistons at a constant up movement with decreased strength could do the job. This might work especially well if you'd either build a low ceiling (so that players won't be able to jump) or encase sackboy in some sort of box to minimize the effect of jumping.

Nice that you brought this thread up though, I'm sure this will lead to some interesting debates and experiments!

srgt_poptart
10-25-2009, 12:50 AM
Also, you could adjust the strength of the springs to make it so only one player could enter, and so on. I've been thinking of ways to make it so that only 2 could enter, as this system only makes it two "or under" players,and I'm trying to get rid of the "or under" part. If you want this as an object I will send it to you, but it may be hard to incorporate into a level, seeing as it is complicated.

Edit 1: Thanks for pointing out the jumping part. I just made the space much smaller. Also, I added a close-level post, and now it works about 99% of the time. I tested with three controllers, all jumping, and it still worked.

goldenclaw13
10-25-2009, 01:08 AM
There is yet another problem (although not too many will figure it out :kz:).

If two (or more) players go on the spring board, all but one of them can turn off their controllers, the one player will not have enough weight, and once you get into the level the players turn on their controllers.

Even if someone touched the close level gate, turning off and back on a controller will still make the sackboy appear. I've tested it with my friend :)

But other than that, this method is pretty solid (with enough tweaking of course).

srgt_poptart
10-26-2009, 12:05 AM
That would be a problem, but I doubt many people would go to that trouble just to bypass a system, and break a level.

piggabling
11-02-2009, 09:41 PM
I've been "developing" some type of player counter. I'll post it up in 'Object Showcase' when I get it up and running. Although it only counts up to two players it does have an extra feature. I'll catch you all up later! :)

srgt_poptart
11-03-2009, 04:24 AM
You could probably make it actually count players and have it adjust the level accordingly by placing some mag switches at different intervals, but it would be hard to calibrate, and might have to use an overpower logic gate. Like if Mag 1 is triggered, it will activate something, but if Mag 2 is triggered it will override Mag 1. (On a side note, I get online again today.) =)

piggabling
11-03-2009, 08:28 PM
You could probably make it actually count players and have it adjust the level accordingly by placing some mag switches at different intervals, but it would be hard to calibrate, and might have to use an overpower logic gate. Like if Mag 1 is triggered, it will activate something, but if Mag 2 is triggered it will override Mag 1. (On a side note, I get online again today.) =)

Yeah my player counter device counts players (only up to two at the moment) and will adjust the level by how many players, and something else. I don't want to give away the entire thing though! ;)

Alright I published the level and posted a thread in the object showcase, why don't you guys take a look! :)

Tech. Showcase (http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18334)

Incinerator22
11-08-2009, 11:32 PM
FAIL.

Lol, sorry. Search gunneye and he actually has player counters that can count players in a level. Also, player counters that depend on weight and can be easily fooled by jumping and such. A reliable way I came up with is plasma. Basically it counts how many plasma balls you need to shoot to get rid of every player, and it works in a thin corridor.

Littlebigdude805
11-09-2009, 12:01 AM
i was thinking of this awhile ago and came up with a simple solution. Just have a part where players will jump down and threw a very fine line of detection comeing from a player proximity switch turned on its side. Set to one shot connect to an emitter that emits blocks of wood with mag keys and when w/e amount of players that pass threw and emit a block is exeeded the blocks will stack high enough to trigger a mag switch long enough ( have it set to directional and hooked up to a piston with a mag key that goes to a switch) it will cause it do soemthing like close a door or flood the place with gas yay :) only way to cheat it (that i can think of) is if the players somehow know and jump down at THE EXACT I MEAN EXACT same time and pass threw at the EXACT same time, which is highly improbable. phew :)

kind of long explanation but its really simple system.

Treas
11-09-2009, 05:36 PM
FAIL.

Lol, sorry. Search gunneye and he actually has player counters that can count players in a level. Also, player counters that depend on weight and can be easily fooled by jumping and such. A reliable way I came up with is plasma. Basically it counts how many plasma balls you need to shoot to get rid of every player, and it works in a thin corridor.

Nice idea. However, this one has a slight disadvantage; levels using this technique can't be aced anymore, like with kill-teleporters. Still, as far as I can see, this seems to be a 100% failproof way of doing it. Nice!

I wouldn't comment the rest of this thread with a "FAIL" though as any discussion about any technique, be it a useful one or not, always leads to nice thoughts and new ideas.


i was thinking of this awhile ago and came up with a simple solution. Just have a part where players will jump down and threw a very fine line of detection comeing from a player proximity switch turned on its side. Set to one shot connect to an emitter that emits blocks of wood with mag keys and when w/e amount of players that pass threw and emit a block is exeeded the blocks will stack high enough to trigger a mag switch long enough ( have it set to directional and hooked up to a piston with a mag key that goes to a switch) it will cause it do soemthing like close a door or flood the place with gas yay :) only way to cheat it (that i can think of) is if the players somehow know and jump down at THE EXACT I MEAN EXACT same time and pass threw at the EXACT same time, which is highly improbable. phew :)

kind of long explanation but its really simple system.

Due to hysteresis, this "exact time" doesn't have to be that exact after all. Apart from the fact that angles < 10 degree tend to malfunction, there will always be quite a forgiving timeframe to trick the detection area.

Littlebigdude805
11-09-2009, 09:38 PM
really? well i never really made it, just a thought. But it still sounds more dependable than weighing players, i know if i stood on a springy thing that started "weighing" me and my friends we would start jumping around even if we didnt know it was weighing us lol

Treas
11-09-2009, 09:48 PM
inclined pieces of floor and/or low ceilings are nice ways of disabling jumps.
Another idea would be to just turn it upside down; instead of letting the players stand on a platform, just let them hang from a piece of sponge attached to some sort of weight gauge thingy.

srgt_poptart
11-16-2009, 01:01 AM
You can't jump anymore, cuz I added one of those gravity platforms, so now you cant jump. As I said before, this way works great, and you can still ace the level. All ways are great, and I was just posting this to see what people think.