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warlord_evil
11-13-2009, 12:49 PM
If you set an emitter to 0.1 with some sort of complicated object, and a long lifespan, it will take a lot of the thermometer.

One way to make the same kind of emitter, without using any of the thermometer, is to use the one-shot trick.

-Create a square of dark matter on the back thin layer.
-Place a wheel on the thick layer, in the center of the dark matter square.
-Make this wheel spin by placing a motor bolt on the center of it.
-Place a magnetic key switch on the sides of the wheel in one or more places.
-Place a magnetic lock switch on the side of the dark matter square, make sure the radius of it is very small, but still contact the magnetic keys.
-Set that magnetic lock switch to one-shot mode.
-Attach that switch to your emitter.
-Set the speed of the wheel to 10-60.

-In other words, create a D.M. block with a cardboard wheel on it, and put a switch that spins on it, and another stationary one that has a one-shot hooked up to a emitter.

Doing this will cause the thermometer to only detect a one-shot switch, not a 0.1 switch.

:arg:

iGotFancyPants
11-13-2009, 12:52 PM
Clever idea! I'll definitely try this out next time I'm in create mode! Hope it works :)

goldenclaw13
11-14-2009, 10:28 PM
Personally, I can see this being a great concept, but it's kind of skeptical for LBP.

The emitters use the "how many at a time", "lifetime", "how fast they are emitted", and maybe some other options, to determine how much thermo it is. I don't think a one-shot would help.

But hey, I haven't really tried it out yet ;)

TheFirstAvenger
11-14-2009, 11:13 PM
Interesting.

warlord_evil
11-14-2009, 11:17 PM
Personally, I can see this being a great concept, but it's kind of skeptical for LBP.

The emitters use the "how many at a time", "lifetime", "how fast they are emitted", and maybe some other options, to determine how much thermo it is. I don't think a one-shot would help.

But hey, I haven't really tried it out yet ;)

It works. I've done it before.

comphermc
11-15-2009, 12:43 AM
From the Thermo Guide:



--------------
This method was contributed by SteveBigGuns:

My technique I found last year allows for the lifetime of an emitter to be infinite. It's very simple. Take a block of dark matter and attach an emitter. place an object in it. set to max emitted 1 and max at one time to 1. Capture this block and place it in another emitter. Now, set the emitter to allow 1 max at a time and life time 0.2 (0.1 to emit darkmatter block and 0.1 for the emiter on the darkmatter to emit the object). Now, you can emit the darkmatter with the emiter on it every 0.2 seconds (minimum interval) with the objects lifetime set to whatever you want. This can be set to emit less frequently if desired, but the smallest time-window must be at least .2 seconds.

-----

Again, this method requires large sections of your level to be destroyed in order for things to work in play mode. If your thermo maxes out in play mode, emitters will fail to work. It might take a bit of creativity to make it work, but it's certainly possible. This is defo an advanced technique, so take caution if you're trying to implement it.

[Thanks! to SteveBigGuns]

iGotFancyPants
11-15-2009, 12:52 AM
LOL Compher always advertising your thermo guide! For a good cause though..:D

rseah
11-15-2009, 03:05 AM
cool ill try it out

warlord_evil
11-15-2009, 03:48 AM
From the Thermo Guide:

That wasn't what I explained in the first post.

rtm223
11-15-2009, 11:59 AM
That wasn't what I explained in the first post.

Lol, that's what I was thinking. Seems our new mod is merely spamming threads with his advertisments for his own. Tsk tsk. Perhaps you should add this info into the thermo guide.

I've done a similar thing but I used a piston to drive the one-shot signal, it's easier to get the timings to sync properly than using speed of a motor bolt.

comphermc
11-15-2009, 03:48 PM
That wasn't what I explained in the first post.

Sorry, I was in a rush and completely forgot to make my point. :blush:

I meant to say that there are other ways to "trick the emitter" as well. If you remind me some time tomorrow, I will investigate and add this to the thermo guide. That was the intention of my post there, not to drive traffic to my guide. Sorry for the confusion - I must've been completely distracted.


I've done a similar thing but I used a piston to drive the one-shot signal, it's easier to get the timings to sync properly than using speed of a motor bolt.

You can also use a wobble bolt set to directional, with a 360 degree movement. The timing, when set to 2 seconds, works so that it completes one revolution per second.

Treas
11-16-2009, 01:17 PM
Ahem... :)



This little mini-guide for tricking the emitters was contributed by Treas:

Tricking the Emitter:
I’ve got a nice little extra trick concerning emitters that many of you may find quite useful.

For example, if you’ve got an emitter that needs to spawn one complex object per second, at a maximum number of 30 objects on screen at any given time:

If you did this the way you’re supposed to, the engine would add the thermometer usage of 30 circles. In fact, you can pull this number down to 1!

To do this, build a mechanism with a OneShot-Mag-Switch which is activated once per second (easiest way would be connecting dark matter and a piece of whatever (cardboard or dissolvable usually) with a catapult-setting piston. Connect the Mag-Switch to the emitter, and set the spawning interval on the emitter to (object lifespan + 0.1s). So, for our emitter, it would be 30.1s.

This way, you can trick the editor. Instead of calculating 30 objects, it thinks that only object would be on screen at a time (given the 30s lifespan and 30.1s interval), but infact, you’ve still got 30 spawned objects at a time.

Be careful though, this is a dangerous technique. Once the objects are spawned, they WILL have an impact on the thermometer. This means, if your level is already overheating (in PLAY mode), objects will just stop spawning. Nonetheless, this technique is a must-know for anyone who wants to create decent and complex survival challenges. Editor's note: This technique can be used for regular levels, but precautionary steps must be taken to not overheat the level in play mode. See below for more info.

Short Version:
There is a way to trick the emitter thermo. If you want the emitter to emit 50 objects at an interval of 1 second and lifespan of 100 seconds, instead of setting the interval to 1s, set it to 101 seconds (lifespan+1s, so that the editor suggests there can only be one object on screen at any given time) and connect it to a switch set to OneShot which is activated once per second.

This way, you will get the same effect (1 object per second with a lifespan of 100), but the thermo will only calculate 1 object instead of 50.

---------

Now, this trick can be used if the necessary steps are taken to ensure the level doesn't overheat in play mode. One way to do this is to destroy large portions of your level once you are done with them. This is definitely an advanced technique, and we would advice against it unless you feel comfortable with the idea.

[Thanks! to Treas]

warlord_evil
11-16-2009, 11:33 PM
Ahem... :)

:(



Well, it seems that comphermc's thermometer thread contains everything to know about thermometers...except real ones.


__________________

Treas
11-17-2009, 08:50 AM
Ah, don't be worried. Even if what you found out has already been discovered - you still figured this out all by yourself, so that's quite an achievement! Plus, this is a nice thread for discussing the whole thermo-tricking process (as well as the dangers this method might cause), so I guess it's a good thing to have it!

Incinerator22
11-19-2009, 09:34 PM
Comph, you outta add this to the list so Warlord doesn't get the better of you lol.



Originally Posted By Comprehensive Thermo Overview Guide:
A thermometer (from the Greek θερμός (thermo) meaning "warm" and meter, "to measure") is a device that measures temperature or temperature gradient using a variety of different principles. A thermometer has two important elements: the temperature sensor (e.g. the bulb on a mercury thermometer) in which some physical change occurs with temperature, plus some means of converting this physical change into a value (e.g. the scale on a mercury thermometer). Thermometers increasingly use electronic means to provide a digital display or input to a computer.

Thermometers can be divided into two separate groups according to the level of knowledge about the physical basis of the underlying thermodynamic laws and quantities. For primary thermometers the measured property of matter is known so well that temperature can be calculated without any unknown quantities. Examples of these are thermometers based on the equation of state of a gas, on the velocity of sound in a gas, on the thermal noise (see Johnson–Nyquist noise) voltage or current of an electrical resistor, and on the angular anisotropy of gamma ray emission of certain radioactive nuclei in a magnetic field. Primary thermometers are relatively complex.

Secondary thermometers are most widely used because of their convenience. Also, they are often much more sensitive than primary ones. For secondary thermometers knowledge of the measured property is not sufficient to allow direct calculation of temperature. They have to be calibrated against a primary thermometer at least at one temperature or at a number of fixed temperatures. Such fixed points, for example, triple points and superconducting transitions, occur reproducibly at the same temperature.

There is an absolute thermodynamic temperature scale. Internationally agreed temperature scales are designed to approximate this closely, based on fixed points and interpolating thermometers. The most recent official temperature scale is the International Temperature Scale of 1990. It extends from 0.65 K (−272.5 °C; −458.5 °F) to approximately 1,358 K (1,085 °C; 1,985 °F).

M_Logic_E
12-14-2009, 02:19 AM
As rtm223 said, using a piston for the one shot... I have been using this method to trick emitters for a while now.