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View Full Version : Premade stuff for levels.. Good Idea?



MrJak
12-29-2009, 02:20 PM
I once saw a level where it gave you tips on how to make good looking levels, said stuff about making sure that if you make stairs then take your time and make it look great, it was set out like a what you should and shouldn't do sort of layout as you went across the level.. <.<

But to cut straight to the point, the level said that it is a bad idea to use the premade contraptions, characters, etc. From the levels already made by mini molocule.

I don't know if I should agree with that as LBP would of put those prizes in there for a reason but it also means that LBP could be making uncreative (if thats a word e.e) shortcuts, I have a tendency to do it but I try to avoid it as much as I can..

so as the title says: Premade stuff, is it a good idea?

napero7
12-29-2009, 03:01 PM
I would say that you can use some of the premade stuff if it really fits the level or so, but don't just make an empty level and put some sushi monsters and the collector there.

I've seen some good use of the characters from the story mode, it's like expanding the original story or something.

thanatos989
12-29-2009, 03:27 PM
I seldom use any of the contraptions from the game, but I do like to pop them in a blank level and study how they were made. They often give me some inspiration for things I create.

I think adding chapters to the original game levels is a good idea, and in that case using pre-made stuff, especially the characters, would be a good exception to the rule.

chimpskylark
12-31-2009, 04:48 PM
It seems lazy to me. Doing obstacles you've already overcome in the story is boring, whats worse is if they're given out as prizes.

Chump
12-31-2009, 06:41 PM
They gave it so you could see what they did and it is now your turn to make them or obstacles that has been inspired by these given objects. Collecting them is a good idea but re-using them isn't.

And by the way it's Media Molecule, not mini molocule :P

Silverleon
12-31-2009, 06:47 PM
I used one once because i thought it'd fit the place, but got bad reviews and stuff for it, so i'd reccomend not to use them and make something similar.

fullofwin
12-31-2009, 10:20 PM
If it's fun for you to make levels with the premade stuff go for it. I don't use it myself because making everything from scratch is the best part of create mode. In the scheme of things very few people will play your level anyway...and at least 1 person will give it 1 star and tag it with "rubbish" as soon as it's published no matter how good it is. Just do what makes you happy. That said I do appreciate the levels where the creator used unique and well crafted items more...but if you make your own stuff and it's crap you're still getting a bad rating.

BasketSnake
01-01-2010, 12:00 AM
mini molocule LOOOOOOL

Alec
01-01-2010, 01:31 AM
I think it's okey to use the objects given in the story mode, but dont use them to much :grr: !
It's get's boring when a level is full of story mode objects!
Well if you publish a level make sure to show it here! :p


/Alec

Fail
01-01-2010, 02:04 AM
I haven't made any levels, but I wouldn't really want to use them, since pretty much every person I know has beat the game, so they probably know the solution to every 'obstacle'. However, if you really want to use them, at least recreate them in your own style, and a bit different, to at least change whatever the player expects.

IStwisted
01-01-2010, 02:13 AM
I like it when people modify the "premade stuff" in creative ways. And I try to include at least one rubber fish in any level that I make.

MrJak
01-01-2010, 03:07 PM
My bad about the mini molocule thing.. loll.. I was close xD

darth621
01-01-2010, 06:15 PM
It's ok to objects like the vases/bottles or the rubber fish that are impossible to create from scratch, but don't put already made objects in your level its just lazy and no one wants to go through the same obstacles they already played through. Make your own objects and only use premade ones to take apart.

Alec
01-02-2010, 02:33 AM
It's ok to objects like the vases/bottles or the rubber fish that are impossible to create from scratch, but don't put already made objects in your level its just lazy and no one wants to go through the same obstacles they already played through. Make your own objects and only use premade ones to take apart.


Obstacles are a bit lazy to use, but story character is ok to use and vases,bottles and other stuff that dont is easy to create! ;)



/Alec:)

KimuraOkagawa
01-02-2010, 03:25 AM
My opinion about premade objects (unique stuff like Lights and decorative objects aside) is that if they help, go ahead and use a few, but a level made of nothing but premade objects is two-star material at best. Create Mode is for making your own, original stuff, not for choosing ten random objects and gluing them together into a level.

The good usages I've seen of premade objects is taking them, and actually editing them (at least, in the limited ways we can; come on Mm, we can't even Corner Edit a premade object?!) to make them different. For example, using the Dissolve Technique, I've made objects of lone story characters like Stripy Tail and the ninjas in a few levels, and by deleting her cloud, I was able to have Grandmaster Sensei sit in a boat. So it all comes down to what you actually do with the premade stuff. Change it and make it yours, that's good. Just use a bunch of them as-is and laying down some Basic Wood as a spacer, that's bad.

(Btw, even when I do use some premade stuff, I try to have as much of my level be original as possible. In my first published level (a Survival Challenge in The Islands), I only used the aforementioned "Sensei in a Boat" and a few ninjas, and also the kokeshi dolls as decorations. The rest was all original stuff, ignoring the shuriken which aren't "premade" in the same sense as things like the MGS Bubble Crate are.)

tl;dr'd version: If you use premade stuff in a way that makes it your own, great. Just use them as-is, your level won't be very popular.

chimpskylark
01-02-2010, 10:55 AM
If the story is linked in with the story mode characters, modify and use them if you want. But if Ze dude is in dark matter land for no good reason, your level would probably suffer.

Recurracy
01-02-2010, 04:20 PM
But if Ze dude is in dark matter land for no good reason
My level 'World of random things' already suffered way too much, I guess xD
Also that comment just made my day.

TNSv
01-02-2010, 04:44 PM
Putting premade objects is always a bad thing, because placing them doesn't boos up you own creativity at all. By making your own objects, you always learn new things that you cannot learn by placing premade objects.

MrJak
01-02-2010, 06:46 PM
ALSO I forgot to mention this... what about premade contraptions and obstacles made from other players and put them in prize bubbles in their levels, is that such a good idea?

TNSv
01-02-2010, 07:25 PM
ALSO I forgot to mention this... what about premade contraptions and obstacles made from other players and put them in prize bubbles in their levels, is that such a good idea?

Depends on. If they want the community to enjoy their objects in their own moon, then why not. But, still it's always important to hide the prizes in secret places.

Draden6436
01-03-2010, 02:17 PM
I used to get criticised in one of my platfromers for using to many pre-made objects, but I would argue that it doesn't matter, so long as it fits your level nicely and if you're not copying a MM level then I wouldn't worry about it anyways.

TheBigBlueFrog
01-06-2010, 06:18 PM
If I use anything, it's an object like the chain-elevator from The Mines. However, I always change the materials or the orientation. Most things, though, I build myself. I make my own elevators, catapults, crushers, etc. I did use the mine cart from the mines, because the level I'm working on is a (modern) mine level, and the mine cart was perfect. Why reinvent the wheel?

As for characters and monsters, I agree that unless the level is an expansion of the original story levels, then there's no reason to use those characters. However, it is a good idea to take the stickers and decorations off the story characters just to see how they're constructed. It's good for getting ideas for how to build your own creatures. In fact, I wish some of the more complicated bosses from the game were available to dissect. I also like to place the gadgets like conveyors in create mode and use them as templates to build my own mechanical items. I copy the motor speeds, piston settings, etc.

An artist takes what he needs. :-)

Thegide
01-06-2010, 06:43 PM
so as the title says: Premade stuff, is it a good idea?

It depends. I know a lot of respectible authors who will shoot you down for using ANY premade objects in your level. To many, it's a sign of laziness or lack of creativity. In almost every instance where I might be tempted to use one, I will remake a premade object from scratch. There are functional, if not simply aesthetic reasons for doing so (you can't easily disassemble premade objects into their constituent parts).

I find in all my levels, its a rare occasion where a premade object would even fit with my artistic direction. I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you can build your level first, then find premade objects that truly work, its probably ok. But, I think trying to design levels around a starting collection of premade objects is creative suicide.

If anything, premade objects can save you time in create mode, but I think any artist who truly values their abilities would rather invest the extra time to do things themselves.

TheBigBlueFrog
01-06-2010, 08:10 PM
I think there's a limit to that line of reasoning. If an artist never uses pre-made objects, then we should all be writing our own games and not relying on the LBP framework. Painters rarely grind their own pigments and mix their own paints.

I just looked back through the level I'm working on, and I use three pre-made MM objects:

1) The double-sided link-elevator (hopper) from The Mines, because it looks right at home in my mine-themed level, and try as I might, I don't think I could improve upon the design.

2) The rotating "fan" passageways from Metropolis, because it's a rotating "X" in a box. The time I took to rebuild it wouldn't be worth the slight difference between my box with an X in it and theirs.

3) The mine cart from The Mines, because it's a simple mine cart. See object one.

Compare this to my made-from-scratch elevators, storage cabinets, chemical drums, steam-shovel, underwater crusher obstacle, custom characters and custom monsters, and the percentage of made from scratch far outweighs the few MM creations I've used.

Project_MK
01-07-2010, 12:20 AM
I hate it when premade objects are used, especially the simple ones. If anything, it shows little promise for the creator.

chimpskylark
01-07-2010, 11:13 AM
Ultimately, I think it isnt a good idea. As draden6436 has said, people criticised him for using Mm objects. So it can't really be worth it

TNSv
01-07-2010, 01:04 PM
Oh, im posting here again. Oh well, better write something longer than last time:
Using premade objects is often a sign of laziness and lack of creativity.
premade objects cannot be edited, which means you have very little to do to make them look original.
Theres also the fact that all community objects and Mm objects we're created from scratch, just by another creator. Making items from scratch is not as hard as it may seem. Sure, it takes practice, but it's really rewarding when you make your own objects.
Using objects not made by you is a pretty bad idea.
If you create one level with too many premade objects, users will start to believe that you won't change your ways, which means your next levels will be dumped.

Those are the cons of using premade objects that i can currently think of. seriously, don't use them.

One more thing:

PREMADE OBJECTS TAKE A HECKLOAD OF THERMO SPACE COMPARED TO OBJECTS MADE BY YOU.

TheBigBlueFrog
01-07-2010, 02:27 PM
PREMADE OBJECTS TAKE A HECKLOAD OF THERMO SPACE COMPARED TO OBJECTS MADE BY YOU.

I thought the same thing, but I compared my "long conveyor", built to the same dimensions and using the same materials, motors and emitter as the MM "long conveyor" and mine used slightly more thermo space. The difference must vary by object.

If anything, I would think that using a simple pre-made object rather than a complex pre-made object would be an indication that the level creator wanted to spend his time and effort on more important tasks rather than, as I've said earlier, "re-inventing the wheel." Some of us have full-time jobs and responsibilities that cut into our important level-building time. If using a pre-made object allows me more time to build a more complex item somewhere else in the level, then it's well worth any puritanical nonsense I might hear from the herd.

XOAcireXO
01-08-2010, 01:50 AM
I have no desire to use the pre made obstacles made by media Molecule, but the regular items are cool to use. I also agree that it's not so cool to make the effort to play someone's level who has just stuck a bunch of pre made items in their level..It's like they didn't know what else to do so why not throw a bunch of random already made stuff in?

kirbyman62
01-08-2010, 04:00 PM
Alot of the things in the 'Objects' section are impossible to create exactly (like the egg) usually due to roundness (again, like the egg). However, these take up quite alot of the thermo space.

fullofwin
01-09-2010, 03:27 PM
Alot of the things in the 'Objects' section are impossible to create exactly (like the egg) usually due to roundness (again, like the egg). However, these take up quite alot of the thermo space.

I don't think anyone would have an issue with using a few of the items that are impossible to create. Of course these items can also be modified, for example I made a pretty awesome carrot for my saber-tooth rabbit using the red pepper and some stickers. So even with the unique items there's an opportunity to be creative.

IStwisted
01-10-2010, 08:37 PM
This thread has inspired my new quest.

To build a level made entirely of Mm objects and those won as prizes in the levels of people who posted here in this thread. I'm playing all your levels looking for stuff.

Working title: I Got the Jak, Mister!

@elvenbane: Haven't found any prize bubbles on your moon yet but you deserve a Sackie for best Little Big Booobage! LOL at that queen.

grace12
01-16-2010, 06:30 AM
It seems lazy to me.