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tominater12
02-10-2010, 02:46 AM
Well this is my first level and I would really like to know what you guys think. I republished it and fixed a lot of stuff hope you like it.

tominater12
02-11-2010, 01:13 AM
So could anyone please give me some feedback?

jeffcu28
02-11-2010, 09:23 AM
Hey tominater12,

This was a valiant effort for a first level: it has the bones of a great adventure, but I feel it needed a bit more pizazz. But hey, it was an initial attempt after all, and you definitely show promise. I loved the characters you constructed, particularly the robot and the Sackperson at the end. You did a fantastic job with stickers on those characters; I only wish you would have used them more throughout the level, especially the robot! I also really liked the flying craft you created after the "Don't Jump" section.

I kept a laundry list while I was playing, and I think it will be easier for both us to keep them in their list form:

-The magic mouth cutscene in beginning was really awkward for me. It speaks of a base, but it zooms in on my sackperson. I would have liked to have seen the base, but then again, the distance would've been way too far for a cutscene. Instead, I would just not include the cutscene...

-As I proceeded more into the level, I just couldn't help but notice the barrenness of the landscape. I saw you used materials for a background towards the end of the level, but the beginning just felt empty to me. In addition, the materials were way too varied to give any sense of cohesion. I would stick with a few materials and elaborate on them to make the level look more put together.

-The spring catapulting mechanism was also awkward because it shot at an angle and threw my sackperson towards the rock rather than the lift. It was tricky, and I would suggest straightening the spring if you could.

-The rocks on the ascent were too blocky. Use the corner editor tool to give them more natural shapes!

-The range on the magic mouth on top of the ascent was short and I had trouble reading the text. I did see the brief cutscene, so I knew where to go, but I would have liked to have read it...

-I didn't know if this was intentional or not, but your vehicle was wobbly due to uncentered wheels. I would suggest centering them for a more polished look.

-In general, I thought you needed to proofread some of your texts. For instance, you misspelled villains in the text after the vehicle ride. It's a small thing, but I'm very keen on details, so little blemishes like those throw me a bit off...

-After the fire pit, you can jump forward to the frontmost thick layer. I would just thicken the wooden floor to occupy both layers to resolve this issue...

-In the entrance to the base, I felt the corridor was too cramped for no apparent reason. Maybe if you made it look like you're sneaking in through vents or pipes it would make sense, but the way you had it seemed a little strange...

-I feel you need to add a checkpoint after you infiltrate the base, especially before the electric obstacles. I died in that section and was frustrated to go way back.

I hope this long list doesn't give you the wrong impression. I enjoyed your level, but I think you can streamline it a little bit more so that the adventure becomes more engaging. Let me know if you make edits, I will certainly give it another go.

By the way, here are two great guides to follow to become a better creator, I use them myself ;):

Jackofcourse's Guides and Tips to Creating on the PSP (http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?20588-Guide-and-Tips-to-Creating-on-PSP)
Taffey's How NOT to create a level guide (http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?20738-How-NOT-to-create-a-level-%28aka-Taffey-s-list-of-community-level-pet-peeves%29)

Throwing bombs at the evil scientist,
jeffcu28

tominater12
02-11-2010, 07:54 PM
Edit: I republished it as The Target(1.1) hope you like the fixes I made.

tominater12
02-15-2010, 07:30 AM
This community basically sucks for giving feedback.

Taffey
02-15-2010, 07:40 AM
Well now, you can attract more flies with honey than with vinegar. ;) Besides, I'd call jeffcu28's feedback pretty darned thorough!

With that said it has been almost a week since you first posted your level. I usually try to play and comment on everything more quickly than this, but I have been living under a rock for the past several days doing create mode stuff. I actually played this earlier tonight but just haven't gotten around to typing up my feedback just yet. I'm falling asleep at my keyboard now (evidence: asdfjdiopqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq) and I promise I'll give you a proper review in the morning.

Fair enough? :)

tominater12
02-15-2010, 06:32 PM
Well now, you can attract more flies with honey than with vinegar. ;) Besides, I'd call jeffcu28's feedback pretty darned thorough!

With that said it has been almost a week since you first posted your level. I usually try to play and comment on everything more quickly than this, but I have been living under a rock for the past several days doing create mode stuff. I actually played this earlier tonight but just haven't gotten around to typing up my feedback just yet. I'm falling asleep at my keyboard now (evidence: asdfjdiopqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq) and I promise I'll give you a proper review in the morning.

Fair enough? :)
What has made me so mad is that after I republished my level I went from 47 plays 3 hearts and 3 stars to 0 hearts 10 plays and only 2 stars and I just do not understand why.

Taffey
02-15-2010, 07:16 PM
What has made me so mad is that after I republished my level I went from 47 plays 3 hearts and 3 stars to 0 hearts 10 plays and only 2 stars and I just do not understand why.Yeah, that can be frustrating. Nobody really knows how or why plays fluctuate like that, but the best we can do is just keep advertising our levels.

Alright, as promised here we go with the review. :)

Overall I liked this level and had fun playing it. You have a fairly good variety of challenges and different things to do, and nothing in the level is really broken. There's a couple hidden spots here and there with prize bubbles, which I liked, and the pacing of the level is decent. I like how you used speech bubbles to highlight different scenes, although I think generally they seemed a little too zoomed in for me - that's just a personal preference though. You did a good job with stickers but I felt some of them were a little random. You kept the "star" theme through the level but to be honest I didn't get what it was all about. I thought the length of the level was good and the story is interesting if not a bit generic.

It looks like you fixed a lot of the things from jeffcu28's list, but there were still a few things left that I noticed. I'll just kind of go through the list and add my comments.




-The magic mouth cutscene in beginning was really awkward for me. It speaks of a base, but it zooms in on my sackperson. I would have liked to have seen the base, but then again, the distance would've been way too far for a cutscene. Instead, I would just not include the cutscene...I didn't notice this issue, so you must have fixed it.




-As I proceeded more into the level, I just couldn't help but notice the barrenness of the landscape. I saw you used materials for a background towards the end of the level, but the beginning just felt empty to me. In addition, the materials were way too varied to give any sense of cohesion. I would stick with a few materials and elaborate on them to make the level look more put together.I noticed this as well. One of the other things I thought was odd was the collection of unusual shapes like stacked up hexagons and triangles. There was also lattice material here and there that didn't seem to really fit in.




-The spring catapulting mechanism was also awkward because it shot at an angle and threw my sackperson towards the rock rather than the lift. It was tricky, and I would suggest straightening the spring if you could.Hmm. Spring catapult? I can only assume you took this out because I didn't see anything like it. Or.... Did I just miss it?




-The rocks on the ascent were too blocky. Use the corner editor tool to give them more natural shapes!Yes, I noticed this as well, but it wasn't terribly obvious. The rest of the level is supposed to take place in a base so the squared off corners work well.




-The range on the magic mouth on top of the ascent was short and I had trouble reading the text. I did see the brief cutscene, so I knew where to go, but I would have liked to have read it...No problem here, you must have fixed it.




-I didn't know if this was intentional or not, but your vehicle was wobbly due to uncentered wheels. I would suggest centering them for a more polished look.This was still very much a problem. The wheels are way off center and it makes the whole experience goofy. The way you center bolts is to select the wheel with the popit cursor, then press 'O' to exit back to your popit but do not close it. Go to your tools option and select a motor bolt. Your cursor will automatically be in the dead center of the wheel, so just press 'X' and you're done. Easy! Speaking of the vehicle, you also shouldn't apologize for the covering on the vehicle. It's fine and people won't know you didn't finish it unless you tell them. :)




-In general, I thought you needed to proofread some of your texts. For instance, you misspelled villains in the text after the vehicle ride. It's a small thing, but I'm very keen on details, so little blemishes like those throw me a bit off...I noticed a few others as well, such as the one where you mention you didn't want the vehicle to "brake". Of course, from my comment above I think it's best if you just get rid of that magic mouth altogether.




-After the fire pit, you can jump forward to the frontmost thick layer. I would just thicken the wooden floor to occupy both layers to resolve this issue...Looks like you fixed this as well.




-In the entrance to the base, I felt the corridor was too cramped for no apparent reason. Maybe if you made it look like you're sneaking in through vents or pipes it would make sense, but the way you had it seemed a little strange...I got the idea that you were supposed to be sneaking in through an air duct, so this didn't bother me too much. Then again, it didn't really look too much like an air duct, so maybe you could dress it up a bit. One of my favorite things to do is cover a small corridor like that with a thin layer of see-through material like one of the metal fence options.




-I feel you need to add a checkpoint after you infiltrate the base, especially before the electric obstacles. I died in that section and was frustrated to go way back.I didn't encounter a particular problem here, but I did think that you had too few checkpoints. Just make sure you have a checkpoint in front of every challenge, or maybe every other.


Well, that pretty much sums up my thoughts on this level. What I like best about it is that you're willing to update and improve on it, which is a very important. I gave you 3.5/5 stars, which rounds up to 4 stars in-game. Keep working on your create skills and remember to have fun! :)

tominater12
02-16-2010, 12:02 AM
Yah the vehicle is like that is because it was the captured one I originally built, see I actually tried to rebuild it and after I did it broke the magnetic key at the beginning and then after a ton of editing broke the entire level so I had to fall back to this. That is also one of the reasons for the proofreading errors.( I actually overlooked those until you told me). Those triangles and hexagons were suppose to give a sense of barriers this villain had put up to keep you out. The stars around the base were suppose to show you this evil villains logo and is also the reason it is used to get the core. The reason the stones looked so blocky after you get past the gate is because they are suppose to look like they were ordered and put there instead of a natural looking stone. Finally the small cramped area is the where all the wires and networking that run through the base.(hence the green background) Thanks for the feedback though I will really try not to capture my objects (or delete the original) and make sure everything is proofread.

jeffcu28
02-16-2010, 12:48 AM
Hey again tominater12,

Sorry for the delay in the followup. But wow, I saw a significant improvement from the earlier draft, and I'm flattered that you took my advice and added some more new elements on your own accord.

First of all, I smiled when I saw more of your robots! :D They are truly fantastic to look at, and I love their retro-ish design. I also liked how you incorporated the star sticker from the robots more into the scenery, particularly in the wire fence area. I have never seen anyone placed stickers on that material before, and I thought the effect was really cool and innovative. I also saw that you dressed up the ending...and for including the LBPC sign ;) nice touch!

In general, the level flowed much better than when I first played it. The beginning wasn't problematic anymore, and I felt the checkpoints were adequate. Playing it a second time around, I do get the impression of sneaking in through the cramped corridors, but I would have to agree with Taffey to make it a tad bit more obvious. Of course this doesn't warrant another republish, but it's something to look out for when making new levels.

I know exactly how you feel about the stats resetting as I had to go through the revision process after I had gained a decent amount of plays from my first level. I'm sure Cambridge is aware of this issue and will try to resolve it in the future. Anyways, I'm glad you edited your level as it truly is improved, and it substantially increased the enjoyment factor.

Now that F4F has been implemented for the PSP, I hope you take advantage of it to get more feedback. I'm unsure if you can convert this thread to an official F4F one, but I think you can still participate by merely adding "F4F:" before the title of your level. To do so, go to your first post, click on edit on the bottom, and go to "Advanced." From there, just add "F4F:" in front of the title and follow the rest of the directions from CC's sticky like specifying how much levels you are willing to leave feedback for. Then, just be on a lookout for new levels with F4F tags, leave feedback, and ask them to leave a review for your level. This way, you can guarantee plays and reviews for your level! :)

I know you put your heart into this level so I will heart it in return and give it 4:star:s. I'm looking forward to more of your levels!

Stealing a retro robot,
jeffcu28

tominater12
02-16-2010, 01:19 AM
Yah I am not going to add a f4f tag this is more than enough feedback you guys have also inspired me to finish some of the other levels I am working on. I was really discouraged when I saw the 2 stars but your guys feedback has inspired me thank you.

Taffey
02-16-2010, 01:24 AM
First of all, I smiled when I saw more of your robots! :D They are truly fantastic to look at, and I love their retro-ish design.Oh yeah, the robots! How could I have possibly forgotten to comment on those. I really liked them and thought were great fun. They're easily one of the best parts of your levels.



Now that F4F has been implemented for the PSP, I hope you take advantage of it to get more feedback. I'm unsure if you can convert this thread to an official F4F one, but I think you can still participate by merely adding "F4F:" before the title of your level. To do so, go to your first post, click on edit on the bottom, and go to "Advanced." From there, just add "F4F:" in front of the title and follow the rest of the directions from CC's sticky like specifying how much levels you are willing to leave feedback for. Then, just be on a lookout for new levels with F4F tags, leave feedback, and ask them to leave a review for your level. This way, you can guarantee plays and reviews for your level! :)Yes, DEFINITELY do this! F4F is a fantastic system and I am really excited to see it implemented here in the PSP Level Showcase. It's great: Play levels, get feedback, play more levels, get more feedback... brilliant! You get rewarded for playing games! What a deal! :)



EDIT:
Yah I am not going to add a f4f tag this is more than enough feedback you guys have also inspired me to finish some of the other levels I am working on. I was really discouraged when I saw the 2 stars but your guys feedback has inspired me thank you.Ok, fair enough. I'm very glad indeed that you've been inspired to create a new level - I'm looking forward to playing it!

Shade_seeker
02-16-2010, 02:03 PM
Hi Tominater:

Playing: Nice start, like the tree, weird hexagons disappearing with button, bit odd. Good use of stickers to guide. What does the vehicle do? Ahhh....I can get to it now, cool. I 'like' the goofy wheels. Car bit simple, but for some reason, i really enjoyed it, I think the wheels should stay as they are. Liked the carpet swing, though I dint see why you need the 'these villains love carpet' speech. Lol at the robots. I like the crawl way, I certainly get the impression I'm 'sneaking'. Hard to get on the moving platform at the end of it, and a shame the piston is slightly wonky (Not really worth mentioning to be honest, but hey I have) Nice use of camera as you get to the next robot (though I didn't get to read the speech bubble, where'd it go?) Nice cogs. Lol at your air vent fan on top of roof, nice touch, shame the lift to the roof (again) is a little on the 'drunk' side. GRRRR first death, SHOCK BOMBS ouch! Don't jump.....Can't resist....have to jump.......need to jump...darn it, i died! Nice space ship, cool use of pistons set to not move, MMMmmmm gonna steel that idea...HEY its over!

All in all, I really liked it. I think sometimes, reading other peoples criticisms leaves you with a more open mind about things, pleasantly surprised! AND NO BUGS, no issues with game play at all which is not an easy thing!

Score: Graphics 7.4 (some really nice touches in there.)
Fun factor: MMmm, well I REALLY liked it so 8.4.
Length: 8.5 Nice length
Originality: 7.5 OK so there wasn't much that I haven't seen before (But thats hard to find, most people opt for platformers anyhoo) but there were some nice 'bits' like the fan, the crawlway.

Well thats a very high score of 7.95 ( That got you four stars, good job!)

amazingflyingpoo
02-18-2010, 02:59 AM
Hidy Ho! I had a chance to play this yesterday (since you PM'd me about it), and I had a good time. You tossed two levels my way, this one, and one that was made by someone else, and I thought that this was the better of the two without a doubt :D

If this had been a 3rd or 4th level that you had made, I would be a bit more critical, but for a first level, I think that you did an excellent job! You managed to implement a story into the level, and certain aspects of what you did in the level were really great (climbing through the duct work and such).

I would go on about the level, but Taffey and Jeff seem to have already tackled this. I am sorry that I didn't get to the level sooner. I was out of town for 6 days, and I think that you posted on here the day (or the day after) I left, so it was certainly not optimal for me.

I will look forward to seeing what you come up with next (and BTW, thanks so much for submitting levels for level of the week!!!).

Spark151
02-24-2010, 09:29 PM
This level was good to be for your first time. Really, it was good as the first level i made, but now i makem them way better.
Anyways, fun, yet cool.
Although, you could've done better in your corner editing n stickers.

I didn't know theme that you were going for either.
I give you a 4 star, great work! :)

CyberSora
02-27-2010, 02:48 AM
Well I just played this, and since this is your first level, I say it's pretty good. I love your robots, they're so awesome! :D

My only problem with the level is the platform near the scientist. Well, the platform is too close to the ceiling, so it's a bit rough to get on. Isuggest you corner edit the ceiling a bit, just to make it easier to enter.

So overall, I gave it :star::star::star::star:. Good job! :)

SalieriAAX
02-27-2010, 12:55 PM
Hey Tominater,

Finally getting around to catching up on some F4Fing - This was really pretty good for a first level, I think. Like everyone else, I liked your robots very much, and while honestly the level feels a little unpolished generally, it certainly works and there is a fair sense of atmosphere inside the base. Jeffcu and Taffey have already gone through the level with a fine tooth comb and they have a much better eye for detail than I do, so instead I'll try to offer a couple of pointers I would suggest for future projects:

Try using subtler camera angles - at points in your level the camera goes from the default angle to an extreme angled closeup. I found this a bit disorienting and I think your camera zones would be better employed using slightly subtler zooms and angles.

Try to make your vehicles more interactive and meaningful - Your car isn't really anything more than a moving platform as it is. I like the section witht the gate, but I think you could do more with trying to make the vehicle necessary for progress in that area (maybe a hazardous floor or something). Also, it only goes one way, and the torque in the wheels causes it to wheelie awkwardly. You might want to work on your vehicle controls to make it a slightly more interesting experience. But then I would say that...

Think about how you use the background - Sometimes it can be perfectly fine to use the ground at the bottom of the background as the ground for your level. For example, this works well on the exterior sections. But there are a couple of places where the Orient's stone floor just looks wrong. In fact I wonder whether the orient was the best choice of background for this level at all, but then that much is entirely up to you.

Overall, though, a good shot at a first level that, most importantly, was pretty fun to play.

VelcroJonze
03-02-2010, 01:36 AM
Hi Tominater, I have played this level a couple times in both versions.

I really want to like this level.:)

Everything is copy free, you made all your people, vehicles, ... and I respect that. The story is a fairly good yarn and is engaging enough to want me to continue to the scoreboard. You seem to be sincere in your creations too.

I think you level designs need some improvements but this your first level so I give you a break there. Some of your elevators were awkward looking, crooked, and the first one was not easy to get on with hardly any headroom.I honestly didn't like the art design as a whole. The look didn't flow well, I think you might have used to many materials, but I know these things will improve with more creating. I gave you four stars for a nice first effort and I'll keep up with you and see what your next project is like.

tominater12
03-03-2010, 12:01 AM
Well thank you all for all of your feedback it seems your biggest beefs are pacing and the way my levels looks which I promise you will be fixed in my next level.

Xenon
03-09-2010, 12:03 AM
Tominator, I put some time into your level. I think Im tied for second highest score = ) Since this is your first level I dont think I can really get into everything since there seems to be a lot of experimentation in it. It’s a good first level with some interesting things. I like gas balls which caught me off guard. The toy like robots were cool as well. The only problem that I want to specifically address is the mouth camera in the beginning. Having a camera move away from the player while he is swinging or hanging onto something is a pet peeve of mine. This happens when you go up to free the car. Moving over to a spot after the player leaves the swinging rope would be better. I did have one question about the core thing you got from using the star sticker? Did it do anything? It seemed like I got the same ending with or without it.

Here are a few things that I think may be helpful for beginners.

1. Never make a level at the bottom-left of the play area. Its always better to start up and to the right some to leave yourself some room just incase you need it. Also the floor is a single object which can lead to gluing nightmares… if you use glue

2. Use glue as little as possible.

3. Limit the numbers of textures you use. Not only to avoid maxing your thermometer, but unless youre very artistic it tends to be distracting… I have major problems with this.

4. Try to stick to a theme or style throughout the whole level. Everyone seems to dig your robots. So if you’re going to use them in your next level go with that. Make your walls out of blocks and other toy inspired shapes to build obstacles and such.

Alismuffin
04-05-2010, 10:45 PM
i quite enjoyed playing this level and its clear that u have true potential. i just think that u need to work on the visuals of ur levels. a good idea ive found is to just play around w/ the tools in my moon and make little segmants of different environments such as: volcano, snow, forest etc

having great visuals in ur level would really boost its rating imo. if u need tips on this pm me and ill throw some tips ur way.

btw dw about ur rebublished levels getting less plays. it happens to me too