PDA

View Full Version : Poll Cheating



ConfusedCartman
03-03-2010, 07:03 PM
In our Online Create Contest voting we had a finalist (monkeysboys) decide to attempt to sway the results in his favor by creating multiple new accounts (seven, so far) and using them to vote his level up. Now, I'm not surprised by this behavior - when the stakes are what they are, I expected there to be some attempts of cheating. However, that doesn't mean I'm any less disappointed him for it. Now, I do not know if his partner (SteveBigGuns) was involved, and I would hope that you all would give him the benefit of the doubt until there is some sort of clarification. Both Creators have been informed of these events and have been directed to this thread. If they would like to respond, they will. Until then, feel free to ask questions, but we don't know much more than we've already explained.

Morgana25
03-03-2010, 07:13 PM
Well that's a sad turn of events. :( Shame too - it's a good level. That's about all I can say about it.

Thanks for staying on top of things CC :) Your hard work is much appreciated!

gamers_network
03-03-2010, 07:15 PM
I am Sheila Owner of LAN Center Gamers Network in Milwaukee, WI and Mother of MonkeysBoys who where the co creators of Dead Space New Arrivals and we displayed their level to be played at our Gaming Center this weekend while we had a tournament and invited people to play it and vote for it...hence the reasons for the multiple votes for them and it is just complete bull **** that they would be disqualified because we invited people to create an account after playing their level if they believed they deserved a vote in their opinion. We also invited family and friends to do the same....now is that not the point of a contest??? When we have tournaments their is always people who have perks over some but we do not disqualify them for it, it is just a part of competition. I think you should reconsider your poor decision and let the leve compete as it was...it is a great level made by talented individuals who put countless hours into it and it deserves it's change to compete! Our LAN center is games network and all our cliental and employees voted and our votes should count! Check us out and our legitimacy so you see this was not a load of crap. Look up www.gamersnetworkllc.com I am going to put on our website and facebook, fanpage, and twitter and everywhere else I can think of to say what a poor decision was made by LBP on this contest!!! Sheila Navarro

Astrosimi
03-03-2010, 07:22 PM
I am Sheila Owner of LAN Center Gamers Network in Milwaukee, WI and Mother of MonkeysBoys who where the co creators of Dead Space New Arrivals and we displayed their level to be played at our Gaming Center this weekend while we had a tournament and invited people to play it and vote for it...hence the reasons for the multiple votes for them and it is just complete bull **** that they would be disqualified because we invited people to create an account after playing their level if they believed they deserved a vote in their opinion. We also invited family and friends to do the same....now is that not the point of a contest??? When we have tournaments their is always people who have perks over some but we do not disqualify them for it, it is just a part of competition. I think you should reconsider your poor decision and let the leve compete as it was...it is a great level made by talented individuals who put countless hours into it and it deserves it's change to compete! Our LAN center is games network and all our cliental and employees voted and our votes should count! Check us out and our legitimacy so you see this was not a load of crap. Look up www.gamersnetworkllc.com I am going to put on our website and facebook, fanpage, and twitter and everywhere else I can think of to say what a poor decision was made by LBP on this contest!!! Sheila Navarro

Your lack of common sense, morality, and civility amazes me.

If you would have invited other to play ALL the levels and then vote, we wouldn't have problem here. But you instead used either yourself or various other friends to create accounts they would never use simply to put either yourself or your son, depending on the validity of your identity, forward in the polls. The point of contest is to see who is BEST, not to see who has the most friends who can make mule accounts. He put a lot of work into this? So did others, other who are playing BY THE RULES unlike you/your son/monkeyboys.

The decision stands, whine all you want. And if you truly are his mom, then I feel sad such dimwitted, rude, and grammatically challenged adults walk this world.

CCubbage
03-03-2010, 07:33 PM
invited people to play it and vote for it.....We also invited family and friends to do the same....now is that not the point of a contest???

Yes, that is the point of a contest.....:rolleyes:

Stay in school, kids...

I'm holding out judgement on steve and monkeysboys.... it is certainly possible this entire fiasco is a direct result of the bad judgement of an over-zealous and slightly under-educated mother....

Astrosimi
03-03-2010, 07:33 PM
Yes, that is the point of a contest.....:rolleyes:

Stay in school, kids...

Indeed. You will probably turn out better than Monkeys and his mom/himself.

Kern
03-03-2010, 07:40 PM
some people have no respect.

ConfusedCartman
03-03-2010, 07:48 PM
This is intended specifically for Mrs. Navarro.

There were 7 total accounts created under monkeysboys IP address:
cdanya - cdanya89@[REDACTED].com - We assumed this one was probably legitimate. Your son was not disqualified on the grounds of this account's existence.

nac - infoATnational-appraisalDOTcom - The username seems to stand for National Appraisal Corporation and the email address backs this up. We do not believe this account represents an individual.

nackeith - keithATnational-appraisalDOTcom - We assumed this was a family company of some sort, and this was simply a family member. This account did not specifically infringe upon any rules.

rockbandtwin1 - rockbandtwin1@[REDACTED].com - We assumed this was either one of two twins voting to help out or a set of duplicate accounts. We now know that these are probably just actual twins.

rockbandtwin2 - rockbandtwin2@[REDACTED].com - We assumed this was either one of two twins voting to help out or a set of duplicate accounts. We now know that these are probably just actual twins.

sheilan - sheila.navarro@[REDACTED].com - Possibly a mother or other family member. Did not individually infringe upon any rules.

sheila_n - sheilaATnational-appraisalDOTcom - This is where we realized what was going on. I'm hoping you, Mrs. Navarro, will not deny that this account and the one above it are representing the same person. This is considered cheating, and if you were truly the only one making multiple accounts in an attempt to assist your son, then I guess you are to blame for your son's disqualification.
Regardless of your justifications, you cannot make multiple accounts representing the same individual and attempt to sway the results of a contest in your son's favor. You say your son worked weeks on that level? Well, what about the 42 other people who worked equally as long on their levels? Do they deserve to lose because you decided your son deserves to win, regardless of the stakes? Look, Mrs. Navarro, I appreciate your obvious love and care for your son, but do not expect me to allow cheating in a publicly operated contest. We are impartial and we do not tolerate cheating in any form.

-------------------------

To everyone: I do not believe at this time that monkeysboys was even aware that what was going on was cheating. His family was only helping him, and I believe it was only his mother that made two accounts for one person (in this case, herself). It is a technicality, and it is sad to see the level be disqualified on such grounds. However, I'm sure everyone can appreciate that there can be no grey area when it comes to cheating, so being very strict about this is the only way we can go about fairly dealing with what happened. Thanks again to everyone for working so hard on your levels - regardless of this incidindent, I'm still consistently amazed at what the LBP community can accomplish.

SteveBigGuns
03-03-2010, 08:10 PM
I wasnt aware of any cheating taking place and was suprised to see the votes go up so rapidly since yesterday. From reading his mothers post it seems that at least it wasnt cheating by having the same person vote, but different people voting from the same location. Although only showing one of the levels in the contest obviously favours it over the rest.

gamers_network
03-03-2010, 08:16 PM
To Clarify again SteveBig Guns and Monkeysboys did not cheat or doing anything wrong. The people who voted did not only play one level and all did not vote for Dead Space New Arrival...it was their choice to vote for anything. I think the fact that kids made this level says something about their imagination and talent, so if you feel the need to send negative remarks to someone do so to us not the kids who created it because they don't derserve your remarks what they do deserve is praise for what they accomplished. Enough Said! I apologize to SteveBigGuns and Monkeyboys and everyone else and accept whatever you have to say to me but none of the creators had any involvement or knowledge of anything so keep that in mind! Thank you.

Incinerator22
03-03-2010, 08:17 PM
I wasnt aware of any cheating taking place and was suprised to see the votes go up so rapidly since yesterday. From reading his mothers post it seems that at least it wasnt cheating by having the same person vote, but different people voting from the same location. Although only showing one of the levels in the contest obviously favours it over the rest.

You don't seem very mad...

I don't believe anyone these days, lol, but if you're telling the truth, sorry about what you're partner did. Besides, your level is great, although sadly, for some people that's just not enough.

Syroc
03-03-2010, 08:22 PM
that it was immoral to get people to vote.

How is that? If they played all levels they are just as qualified to vote as anyone else.

Kern
03-03-2010, 08:24 PM
How is that? If they played all levels they are just as qualified to vote as anyone else.

You misunderstand the post, I mean't she didn't say that the people who liked the other levels voted...

JKthree
03-03-2010, 08:27 PM
The thing is, the contest was pretty much for the members of LBPC to decide, not for family or friends (unless said family and friends were already a member of LBPC for quite sometime). Of course new people who just discovered the site and learned of the contest and vote as well. But it doesn't excuse large members of family or friends. (especially cause of the fact you only showed your family member JUST Dead Space, and not the others, though I don't think it wouldn't have mattered anyway cause they would've voted for him regardless)

When XVoodeedooX asked me to record his LBL entry I hesitated cause I didn't want the contest being broken or cheated because of a video (that was before I found out there were judges mind you) and it wouldn't have been fair with all the other good entries out there. Maybe if LBL had a list of finalists (regardless if you could vote for them or not) I probably would've had his entry (and maybe the other finalists) recorded sooner.

What I think should be done from now on in future contests like these, is to have a requirement from voting, either having a certain amount of rep, or being a member here for X amount of time (I say about 2 weeks minimum). I know this would disqualify honest new members who discovered the contest and/or LBPC. But its a small price to pay, to prevent another incident

SteveBigGuns
03-03-2010, 08:29 PM
@Incinerator22.
Im not angry we were disqualified. Its only a contest to win a piece of dlc anyway. I didnt create the level with the main goal of winning a crown. The enjoyment of working with someone on a level and learning new things along the way was why I choose to do it. The crown was just something extra to motivate us to finish it by a specific date. Im proud of the level and honoured to work with someone as talented and pleasent to be around as monkeysboys.

Incinerator22
03-03-2010, 08:32 PM
Good attitude Steve :D

Thinking out loud, what about weighted votes based on post count?

Luos_83
03-03-2010, 08:37 PM
you know,
if you are a little smart, you can hide behind various proxy's.
for all we know the mother is either steve or monkey.

Not to point fingers,
but its possible.

rtm223
03-03-2010, 08:37 PM
Anyone notice how the LBW crown contest goes off without anywhere near as much drama as this?

What? Don't look at me like that... OK, put down the pitchforks guys, I'm just saying :rolleyes:



Votes weighted by post count would give some people far too much power.

Fenderjt
03-03-2010, 08:39 PM
Its a shame that such a situation has occurred and i hope this will all die down seen as this is a friendly highly rated site. I hope you all push it under the carpet have a cup of tea and have a dunking biscuit session lol. (Trying to liven up the thread)

Im sorry to hear this Steve and Monkey, your level was great and i hope maybe you two will enter other contests in the future just to add a bit of excitement to your creating again for yourselves :)

Goodluck to the rest of the gamers still in.

Incinerator22
03-03-2010, 08:40 PM
What about simplified weighted votes? Anyone lower than a patch of cloth gets half a vote. Or something like that...

Testudini
03-03-2010, 09:01 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeTv8QFEg4M

gamers_network
03-03-2010, 09:13 PM
With all being said about the voting fiasco, the true victims here are the creators steve_big_guns & monkeysboys , it is comforting to see that the co-creator steve_big_guns harbors no ill will toward monkeysboys recognizing they had no part in it. The level speaks for itself and reached the finals upon its own merit. Those of you who choose to write negatively about monkeysboys could take a lesson in graciousness from from steve_big_guns. His modesty should be an example for the rest of you. I am sure monkeysboys will find comfort in his words.

Testudini
03-03-2010, 09:21 PM
Sheila, WAKE UP.
Sure, your son might have made a great level, so its not bad showing it to family members and friends. But they care about monkey, and want him to win. And when you give them the option to vote, OF COURSE they are going to.

Other people didn't do that, thus making it unfair. However, I do agree being disqualified is taking it a little to far. Just don't count the 'unfair' votes. Monkey gets to stay in the contest, and everyone will be happy.

Incinerator22
03-03-2010, 09:25 PM
Other people didn't do that, thus making it unfair. However, I do agree being disqualified is taking it a little to far. Just don't count the 'unfair' votes. Monkey gets to stay in the contest, and everyone will be happy.

Not me! He should be banned from LBPC too!

He probably knew about all of this and supported it. Even if he didn't, people were probably going on his own computer to vote and to be honest, it's his fault if he didn't see it.

Doopz
03-03-2010, 09:28 PM
See this is why I killed my mother...

Testudini
03-03-2010, 09:32 PM
He probably knew about all of this and supported it. Even if he didn't, people were probably going on his own computer to vote and to be honest, it's his fault if he didn't see it.
If this is true, yea he deserves to be disqualified. But still, poor Steve :(

Chump
03-03-2010, 09:39 PM
see this is why i killed my mother...

wha-? Rofl XD

Fenderjt
03-03-2010, 09:45 PM
See this is why I killed my mother...

Ok now im scared....*Walks away....runs away*

samalot
03-03-2010, 09:50 PM
The problem is, like CC said. when it comes to cheating, strict measures must be taken. It is a shame to see the level disqualified but.... this might sound harsh, but an example needs to be made :( Or cheating might continue.

I just want to say, I have nothing against any of the creators, and im sad this ever happend :(

CyberSora
03-03-2010, 10:51 PM
With all being said about the voting fiasco, the true victims here are the creators steve_big_guns & monkeysboys , it is comforting to see that the co-creator steve_big_guns harbors no ill will toward monkeysboys recognizing they had no part in it. The level speaks for itself and reached the finals upon its own merit. Those of you who choose to write negatively about monkeysboys could take a lesson in graciousness from from steve_big_guns. His modesty should be an example for the rest of you. I am sure monkeysboys will find comfort in his words.

I think we do. I certainly do. I think you're the one who needs to learn to trust monkeysboys. If he loses, then that's it. It's not up to you to help him win some contest that he entered for passion, not for materialistic items (or so I believe). So you're actions not only dissqualified your son, but it also tarnished part of his repuation as a Creator. I suggest you either choose your actions more carfully, or just stop posting here, since it's not helping at all.

Smart_Alex
03-03-2010, 11:10 PM
...


I'm speechless,

'tis all I can say. Shame, shame shame.
But, I think anyone else would've done that.

Monkey and Steve have been working on this for a very long time,
In all I'd say that they really deserved the crown(s).

Surely, this won't affect the way you all look at Monkey right?
He may have made a big mistake, but come on, we all make mistakes!
I wouldn't wasnt to see a friend of mine get banned!
So don't take it the wrong way everyone, he's a great guy, but I
wouldn't let this affect the people around him.

Let's just be thankful, people found out
before he were to win the wrong way, so come on folks, cut him some slack!


This is like something off of Dr. Phil, everyone is making a big commotion over.


Oh and to everyone else who is competing in the competition, Great job to all! :)

I would like to see everyone who competed with a crown on their
sackboy heads, they all deserve it! :D

Ragfell
03-03-2010, 11:24 PM
Well, now, that might be going a bit too far. The crowns are to help weed out the best from the pile of pretty-darn-goods. Just saying.

Smart_Alex
03-03-2010, 11:28 PM
Well you have a point, just curious to know who the winners will be now! ^_^

Luos_83
03-03-2010, 11:34 PM
Monkey and Steve have been working on this for a very long time,
In all I'd say that they really deserved the crown(s).
No they didnt.


Surely, this won't affect the way you all look at Monkey right?
He may have made a big mistake, but come on, we all make mistakes!
I wouldn't wasnt to see a friend of mine get banned!
So don't take it the wrong way everyone, he's a great guy, but I
wouldn't let this affect the people around him.
No ban him. period.


so come on folks, cut him some slack!
Nope, here have a cola!



This is like something off of Dr. Phil, everyone is making a big commotion over.
Phill is a bigger a.h. than the one who rigged the voting.

ConfusedCartman
03-03-2010, 11:58 PM
We have no plans to ban monkeysboys. We don't have clear enough information to determine if he even knew what was going on, let alone whether or not he was directly involved. Our decision regarding this matter is final - no part of our decision will be undone, and no additional consequences will be added to his plate. Disqualification is the fairest solution in this situation.

CyberSora
03-03-2010, 11:58 PM
Man, this competition is supposed to bring us closer together. Yet, we're proving how something so small can seperate us, the community. Yes I know, cheesy, but I'm not to happy with the situation either. Still, we're supposed to set an example for new members, not for bad apples. Can't we agree on that?

Smart_Alex
03-04-2010, 12:05 AM
No they didnt.


No ban him. period.


Nope, here have a cola!


Phill is a bigger a.h. than the one who rigged the voting.

-_-












Though I will accept that cola. ;)

Testudini
03-04-2010, 01:51 AM
Meh, if this is bad, you should see ROBLOX. One of the reasons I quit.

TIMELINE:

New contest---------20 threads whining about how its stupid and unfair--------Mods ban alot of people..some innocent-----People win some prizes-----everyone shuts up

Kern
03-04-2010, 06:40 AM

midnight_heist
03-04-2010, 07:47 AM
^ I hate that song. :P

I don't see why someone would mess with the poll when they have created a perfectly decent level. :/

Kiminski
03-04-2010, 09:14 AM
Why is this even up for discussion? It should have been posted locked.

Yet again, I'm feeling sorry for the culprit because their name's getting dragged through the mud on a public board. Get a grip people, it's hardly the end of the world! Start putting things into perspective and consider people's feelings a bit more. He's been disqualified, that should be the end of it. Any further discussion should be between monkeysboys and admin.

Every time I pop in lately, there's some new drama going on. For a community who's been so very kind to me, you're also astonishingly good at being unkind.

If there's going to be competitions won via voting, perhaps alter the group permissions so voting is locked until a new member's post count reaches, say 50, then have them automatically promoted to a new group which allows them to participate in polls?

wexfordian
03-04-2010, 09:33 AM
I agree with kiminski completely. There seems to be "drama" everywhere these days. People forget that this is a game. It is a place to be creative. Its a place to make friends. Is it no wonder that LBPC's finest, friendliest members is posting less often or in some cases not at all. I used to enjoy coming on here every day to have the craic but its getting harder each day as there seems to be more and more blame and hate being posted than anything else. Its not what I joined up for. Now don't get me wrong, Im not some complete push over who thinks everything in this world is just fine and dandy but theres no need at all for all these frantic witch hunts.

I've said my piece.

Tawarf
03-04-2010, 11:09 AM
Anyone notice how the LBW crown contest goes off without anywhere near as much drama as this?

rtm is kinda right... ummm.... ummmmm.... UMMMMMMM.......










bye

comphermc
03-04-2010, 11:18 AM
Why is this even up for discussion? It should have been posted locked.

Yet again, I'm feeling sorry for the culprit because their name's getting dragged through the mud on a public board. Get a grip people, it's hardly the end of the world! Start putting things into perspective and consider people's feelings a bit more. He's been disqualified, that should be the end of it. Any further discussion should be between monkeysboys and admin.

I understand where you are coming from, but the choice to make our decision public was very calculated. If we had disqualified a level without any explanation, there would have been much more drama and much more anger. If we had stated simply that someone had been stacking the votes, there would have been even more drama (and there would have been a community driven 'witch-hunt' to determine who it was). If we had stated simply that it was one of the members of the submission team, there would have been assumptions as to who it was, and Steve may have been caught in the crossfire. We had no choice in the matter but to proceed as we did.


If there's going to be competitions won via voting, perhaps alter the group permissions so voting is locked until a new member's post count reaches, say 50, then have them automatically promoted to a new group which allows them to participate in polls?

Quite simply, we cannot do that. Who are we to say that X number of posts merit a vote. Some people quietly meander the site (I think it's safe to say that even you belong to this group). Why should they be denied a vote?

---

But yes, I agree. I'm not sure this thread serves any purpose beyond what it has done this far. Can we all agree on a lock, then. If you feel that it shouldn't be locked, send me a PM and we'll talk about it.

Thanks,
Comphy