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View Full Version : Sourceless lights, invisible spikes, and a couple other tricks [UPDATED 4/29]



Sehven
04-11-2010, 02:49 AM
I'm sure most of you know how to make a normal sourcless light (copy/paste a flame object onto a bomb and detonate it), but what if you want a light that can turn on/off or can move around the level, or that can actually cast light on its surroundings.

To start off we're going to need the Port Royal House or the Ruined Fort from the Potc pack. Change everything to dissolve except the base (the base of the Ruined Fort is the bottom middle section).
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15204
You don't need to remove the stickers: I just did that to make it easier for you to see what I was doing.

Trigger the dissolve and you'll end up with...
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15203
The tinfoil and darkness are so that you can see the sourceless light: the camera tool captures light reflecting from objects, but doesn't capture the light itself

The light object is now separated from the actual shining light. The shining part will stay with the building's base regardless of where the light object is. Well, that's not especially useful as it is, so let's change the base to a destructible material and cut it down to a more manageable size... with bombs!
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15212

Set 'em off and you get...
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15207

All that's left of the base now is a small rectangle of dissolve, but you can blast it to an even smaller shape/size if you want. If you want the light to be farther from the dissolve, you can resize it bigger, which will resize the light too (not the light object, but the shining part) and they'll maintain their relative distance (the bigger they are, the father apart they are). You can tweak the light object and the sourceless light will show the changes (change color, increase radius/brightness, foggy/not foggy, etc) or hook a switch up to it to allow you to turn the sourceless light on/off (or brighter/dimmer with a speed switch). If you don't need it to remain tweakable in the level, you can crush the light object and the sourceless light will remain. Note that dissolve bit can only occupy the back or middle layer and the sourceless light can only occupy the middle or front layer (the light is in the layer in front of the base), unless you use the layer glitch.

Use a similar process on the Ruined Fort:
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15210
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15213
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15209

You end up with two lights side by side, but if you want to get rid of one, it's as easy as turning the brightness all the way down on one of the leds. In this case, the sourcless lights and the bit of leftover cardboard are in the same thin layer, so they can be moved to any thin layer.

What can you use this for? Well, when I made my Mother Nature character, I didn't like how dark her face ended up: the green skin tone plus the shadow cast by her hair made her face difficult to see. So I stuck a sourceless light on her face and tweaked the brightness to just enough to make her face more visible.
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14606
It still comes out kind of dark in the picture, but it looks fine in-game.

Now onto invisible spikes and harmless spikes: start with the spiked wheel object from the potc pack. Turn all the parts to dissolve (except the spikes obviously).
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15208

Trigger it and you'll end up with this:
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15206

Those triangles are the sharp part of the spike objects. They're currently stuck in the air, but if you select them (drag a square around them until the outline appears) and move them, they'll become subject to gravity again and fall. You can also see the visible spike objects in a haphazard pile on the ground there. Their base parts (the wooden rectangle) are still solid, but the visible spike is harmless and Sackboy can walk through them. If you try to delete any individual spikes, they'll all disappear, so select one, click L3 and then paste it. Now you can delete the rest. I copy/pasted one harmless spike and one invisible spike, shown here:
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15211

The harmless spike will still make your controller rumble when you jump over it. The invisible spike can be glued to objects, but it doesn't work especially well: it tends to come unglued as soon as you glue anything else to it or capture it.

On the subject of sharpness, many of you probably know that you can crush a knife's blade to create a harmless knife (sackboy can walk right through the blade) but did you know it's possible to only crush the sharp edge, leaving the rest of the blade solid? It's a bit tricky to do: the way I did it was to make the knife really big and glue it to some dark matter. Then I made another really big knife and put it on a flipper piston so that it would strike the sharp edge of the first knife. If it hits too hard, it'll break the entire blade, so it will probably take a bit of trial and error, but you can break only the sharp part, leaving a harmless blade that Sackboy can stand on. Similarly, you can crush the non-lethal base of the the Underminer's drill from the Incredibles pack, leaving a drill that's lethal on all sides... but it'll have the same gluing problem as the invisible spike. I haven't managed to crush the lethal part and leave the non-lethal part intact, but even if you could, it would just be an invisible chunk of metal.

One last trick. How many of you noticed that one of Mother Nature's arms passes in front of the other one even though they're both in the same layer? Here's a closer view of another doll character I made.
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14605

These characters were made using the compression tool (http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?24434-Merging-Objects-or-Materials-aka-Compression-Tool), but if I had just attached the arms normally, the left hand would've disappeared into the right arm... but that wouldn't have mattered since both forearms would've been inside her torso. Instead, both her forearms, though still in the same thick layer as the upper arms and the torso, are actually shifted forward toward the player.

Start with a doll arm (it works on a bunch of objects, but I'll get to that in a minute). Select it and click L3 to copy it. Now move it back one layer but before it gets to that layer, click X to place it: you have to click L2 and X at almost the same time (it's the same way that we can make theck/thack layer objects). The effect will be subtle, but if you repeat the process a few times, you'll notice a bigger difference. After four of five times, the forearm will appear to be completely separated from the upper arm. This can be done on pretty much any of the 3d objects (meaning the ones not made of in-game materials) with flexible parts, though the effect can be less than desirable on some. The other doll arms/legs work pretty much the same. Fish heads can be moved forward/backward relative to their bodies. Psycho mantis abdomen can be moved forward backward, but it doesn't look good. The very tip of the rubber snake's tail can be shifted and I forget whether the tip or the base of the octopus tentacle gets shifted.

And those are all the glitches I've discovered. Some or all have probably been discovered before by other people, but I never heard of any of them and I worked out how to do them on my own (actually, I'd seen a dull knife before, but had to figure out how to do it on my own).

[EDIT 4/29] Found another interesting trick: harvesting switches from Mm objects. [removed 'cuz Aya found that it's actually really freakin' simple to do with a better/easier method]

trip090
04-11-2010, 06:13 PM
thanks Sehven! i used the sourceless light today actually on a LBPC sign in my new level. it works fantastically! thanks again for this really useful guide!

damaz10
04-11-2010, 09:19 PM
Lol, and I was just asking you the other day about whether or not you were going to make a tutorial about this. I saw the post you first made that mentioned it in the Complete Guide to Secret Materials and Stickers. I used this a while back to make some cool sunlight in the clouds, heres the pic of it
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14930
I used the POTC Port Royal house and the clouds are in the 3d background. It looks really cool in-game. The level it's going to be featured in the level i have listed in my sig. I'll be sure to give you credit when I put my level in the Level Showcase. Thanks a bunch dude bc it's a really great addition to anyone who uses creative lighting in their levels. Oh, and thanks for mentioning my compression tool tutorial!

Sehven
04-12-2010, 05:55 AM
I'm not too worried about credit so you don't have to mention me or anything (unless you really want to). Glad it's helpful, though. I love using glitches in creation but these are the first ones I've found on my own.

I haven't thought of a particularly helpful use for the invisible spikes. I mean you could use the compression tool to overlap them to a sword object or something, but with the gluing problems, it'd be kinda' tough to do. I'm pretty happy with the arm dislocation, though. It's kinda' funny that I accidentally discovered it right when I was working on the dolls (I was actually trying to put one of the dancer's arms into the thick layer.... which sorta' worked, but only on the forearm).

rseah
04-12-2010, 06:03 AM
o sweet sourceless lights

damaz10
04-12-2010, 03:13 PM
Lol, yeah, glitches that contribute a lot to levels are extremely helpful so thanks once again for the sourceless light tutorial. I showed some of my friends in lbp this b4 you actually made this tutorial. They should understand this after some reading and such. When I do, publish my level, I will give credit bc this is such an awesome helpful tool. You deserve it dude!

Doopz
04-12-2010, 03:21 PM
Awesome! I'll find so many uses out of this...

:)

croissantbuncake
04-17-2010, 01:28 PM
I'm pretty sure there is a weightless glitch somewhere too. Once I was building a tank in pause mode and unpaused it to test, but a searchlight stayed where it was, just floating there. For fun I decided to swing from it thinking a piston had broke and frozen it in space, instead it floated away when I released it, just like pink floaty!!
If only I could recreate that glitch... :(

jwwphotos
04-17-2010, 02:42 PM
Cool.. this could be handy! :)

Thanks!

Frogmeister
04-22-2010, 10:29 PM
So the harmless spikes can be used to make the pad rumble! Excellent! And the sourceless lights are such a good find.
Fantastic bit of tinkering.
Thanks very much.

Isn't it amazing that new glitches like these are still being found in a game thats 18 months old!
I don't think that LBP will ever truly die.

Sehven
04-23-2010, 03:05 AM
So the harmless spikes can be used to make the pad rumble!

Sort of. After a few seconds, sackboy kinda' figures out that they're harmless and the controller stops buzzing.


I don't think that LBP will ever truly die.

Depends on how they handle lbp2 (if the rumors are true, that is). Personally, I hope it works kind of like Rock Band 2: it functions as a stand-alone game, but you can import all materials, items, stickers and everything from lbp1 into it, and it'll be able to play all the lbp1 levels-both story and player created. If it's a stand-alone without backwards compatibility, it'll divide the market: a lot of people will leave lbp1 to play 2, which will make lbp1 less fun for those who stay, but not everybody will migrate to lbp2, so it wouldn't have nearly as strong a community as lbp1 has.

Of course, even if it's backwards compatible, it would still divide the market somewhat. Those who stay with lbp1 wouldn't be able to play the community levels created in lbp2... unless Mm put out a patch for lbp that enabled all the content from 2, sort of like the way dlc works now: everybody gets the latest dlc in the latest patch, but only those who buy it can use it. Maybe lbp2 could just be a big expansion pack, and they could sell a standalone version that includes the first lbp on the game disc.

Um... did I just hi-jack my own thread?

Incinerator22
04-23-2010, 03:19 AM
I always get annoyed with foggy lights that even you you hide them behind another material, you can see the glow. Could you make a sourceless foggy light that accepts aspeed input?

Sehven
04-23-2010, 07:14 AM
The glow still shows through other materials just like it does with a sourcey light. :(

And yeah, they'll accept any input a normal light will (which I think is just on/off and speed: can't remember if directional works). You can hook a switch to the actual light object and stick it anywhere you want (in the level's logic center or under the floor or whatever), and it'll still control the sourceless.

trip090
04-23-2010, 09:10 PM
dunno if this is of any use, but i was mucking around with the custom sports car object and the car's spotlight headlights detached from their light, like these spotlights. problem was, the light didn't move. perhaps you could look into this?

Sehven
04-24-2010, 02:09 AM
Nice find. This one seems a little tougher to work with. When the light beam separates from the light object, the switch stays connected to the beam, and you can tweak the beam: like you click square on the beam to tweak it instead of clicking on the light bulb. It kind of acts like the mgs laser that you rip out of a super sentry turret: while the wire is connected to it, you can tweak it, but if you disconnect the wire, you can't tweak it any more and you can't attach a new wire to it.

The light sticks with the front thin layer of the car, so you can dissolve everything else and then bomb the thin layer down to a usable size, but if you want to keep it tweakable, you have to keep the switch intact: it's in the middle of the thin layer. It's a sensor switch, so you can't just set up a relay to trigger the light whenever you want.

I'm starting to suspect that this will happen with pretty much any Mm object that contains a light. Maybe it'll even work with community objects (ones that you can't edit yourself). I'll have to do s'more experimenting.

[edit] Preliminary tests on community objects have been negative. None of the community objects that I've separated lights from have done the glitch. I'll have to look at s'more Mm objects.

waD_Delma
04-25-2010, 05:55 AM
This is off-topic but I didn't want post a new tread for it. You probably know that new light that comes from The Incredibles Level Kit acts strange when it is gassed. It still haves mass or exactly back part of it haves still mass and light cannot be degassed. This problem can be solved by gassing light, dropping thin-thick piece of metal on it and degassing it.

Sehven
04-25-2010, 09:39 AM
I hadn't noticed that yet. I gassed it once just to see if I could, but I didn't unpause the level so I didn't know it still had weight. I did smash the backplate with a metal theck layer object without gassing it, though, so it left just the thick light. Of course the backplate was still there, but theck layer objects could pass through it. Didn't really see a use for it, though.

I also found that you can smash the base of the drill object: the part that's non-lethal. Then the drill is lethal on all sides. Didn't really see a use for that one either. I haven't been able to smash just the lethal part though: all my attempts just resulted in the whole thing getting smashed.

Sehven
04-29-2010, 08:52 AM
Updated the original post with a trick for removing switches from un-editable objects.

Also, a correction to my previous post ^ the retro lamp is not thack with a theck backplate. It's thick with a theck backplate.

trip090
05-03-2010, 06:06 PM
yeah...i don't know if this is any use and it is kinda of topic but i just wanted to bring it to your attention.

on the scrap car lift object, there are bolts that act just like motor bolts. don't know if this is of any use to you but i thought it was kind of weird.

Sehven
05-03-2010, 08:17 PM
I've heard of them, but never had a use for them. There's no way to hook switches to them, is there? Even if there is, there's nothing you can do with them that you can't do with motor bolts, so it's more of a novelty thing than a usable feature.

trip090
05-03-2010, 08:21 PM
yeah, i know. but...why? what's going on there? the stiffness acts like speed: the lower it goes, the slower it goes. i know it's useless but it's just kinda weird.

Sehven
05-03-2010, 10:56 PM
I haven't messed with them, but I'm guessing that adjusting the strength is the same as adjusting the strength of a motor bolt. A low strength motor bolt will turn slower. Well, sort of. A low strength motor will turn slower when there's resistance. If it's spinning a small circle of pink floaty, though, it should gradually work its way up to full speed. I wonder if that's the case with the glitch bolts. I'll have to do some testing later. At any rate, if there's no way to hook switches to them, I probably can't come up with a practical use for them.

I'm guessing that they were put into Mm's object before they had finalized all the tools. Perhaps they started out with one bolt that could be tweaked to be a motor or wobble and then later they decided to make them separate.