PDA

View Full Version : LBP2! I hope its not like LBP



clarkdef
05-09-2010, 11:46 PM
What I mean by that title is I hope the community stuff is not driven by fame or being popular. Why? Because as a game guy/person I struggled to find levels that challenged me and also impressed me visually. If it were hard it was usually ugly and not creative, if it was well made, and had lots of creativity it would have a lot of spoon feeding and get out of jail free cards/too easy. So what do you guys think? I would like to see the community structure of LBP2 change, so if you were looking for something like a puzzle level, then you could find a puzzle level, and the creator could put in a difficulty tag/rating bla bla bla. This way creators wouldn't feel like they would have to spoon feed or make things too easy to keep a 4star rating.

So then people would play the type of level they were looking for, and rate more fairly and therefore levels wouldn't get slammed just for being too hard for people or in some cases too easy. I do believe MM has the power to come up with a way of doing this, if not pass...

grayspence
05-10-2010, 01:09 AM
I too, hope they change the rating system, or at least the cool pages in #2, this ois a major problem in #1!

CCubbage
05-10-2010, 02:23 AM
Definately one of my big votes is genre/difficulty, and a good search ability. I totally agree that it's necessary to dumb-down levels so much.

That being said, I gotta say that lately I've been having a huge amount of fun playing challenging levels from creators who finally finished worrying about whether their levels would be popular for the masses, and just built good challenging games with some depth.

clarkdef
05-10-2010, 05:03 AM
Hey I just noticed that there is a "everything LBP2" how do I move this thread over?

I'm glad you agree, I hope MM's doing something a bit different to improve the comminity foundation. The best example I can give is YouTube. If you look for a music video you like you're surely gonna rate it more fairly because that song is what your were looking for to quench your boredom, than any ol music shoved in your face, and a safe way to get high ratings in that case is to make it a pop song. Thats what LBP feels like to me one big pop song.

Mkwone
05-10-2010, 10:59 AM
Maybe they could have a testing ground area where 10 people for instance have to play your level before it's let out into the wider world. That way they could sort of 'review' the level on offer to make sure it's completable and working, and suitable for the rating (non adult stuff). They could also give a difficulty rating, a star rating etc etc.

On another hand it could be a rubbish idea and mean that it'll take a while for your levels to get published. Plus it might cause errors if you keep republishing your levels.

AlvaroShiokawa
05-10-2010, 05:27 PM
I wonder how will the "h4h or whatever"-beings behave in this new LBP2 :rolleyes:.

Mnniska
11-23-2010, 02:44 PM
I've got to agree with you there. Before I streamlined my levels a bit I would always get bad ratings becouse t was simply too hard or tricky to understand I would spend months on a cool concept and then have the community shoot it down becouse it was too challangeing :L

A difficulity rating would be exellent there.

booXely
11-23-2010, 03:33 PM
But you can't always trust creators to give it a proper difficlty level, when I made my first level I thought I had made a really challenging puzzle, but my brother didn't even have to think about it. Difficulty is relative, especially to age group.

Holguin86
11-23-2010, 03:59 PM
The problem is, the majority of the people who play your level aren't going to appreciate the fact that you've spent hours and hours on polishing, perfecting and producing your level from the ground up. This'll largely because they'll be casual players looking for fun, and/or probably won't understand the scope you go to in create mode. Moreover, you can't blame the system for popularising the concepts of bomb/shark survivals - it promotes the popular levels, and like it or not, bomb/shark survivals ARE popular with lots of the community.

One thing I read that Mm are including, however, is a weighting system, whereby creators that give consistently good feedback on community creations have more weighting when reviewing them. Each review can be rated, and through that, each reviewer. So highly rated reviewers can be trusted to leave good feedback, and being rated well by them will likely result in a larger boost in popularity than if a poor reviewer were to rate it.

As for motivation for popularity, trophies based on hearts have been removed, so the emphasis will rest much less on attaining hearts from other players.

Also, one final point I'll make - most of the levels respected here on LBPC rarely get more than 10,000 plays, and many only get around 2,000. Yet these levels receive much more praise than some of the monster-played levels popular in-game. The system can only promote what it sees, however, and as it sees plays and hearts, not positive feedback, these frequented levels usually float to the top of the pile.

EDIT: Wow, didn't realise this thread was nigh on 6 months old! Mnniska, you bumper! :p

Shadowriver
11-23-2010, 04:03 PM
LBP.me can save the day here :)

Skalio-
11-23-2010, 04:06 PM
Agreed with everything Hol said, and i think the weighting system should definitely be introduced.
On a side note it doesnt really matter about whats on top of the cool pages anyway, since you can always search through LBPC community spotlights and level showcases to find interesting or challenging levels to play, i think you shouldnt rely entirely on what Mm give us in game when you have a wonderful tool like LBPC at your fingertips

Cheezy WEAPON
11-23-2010, 05:05 PM
I think the only thing that PO'd me off in LBP1 was the good levels had flashy title cards and names that you COULD NEVER SKIP. The worst offender I saw would last for about 3 minutes before I could actually play the darn level. It was a pretty nice level too, but these guys have to be less show-offy. I mean, really, I don't care who you are. Just put your name in the corner of the scoreboard.

This is just as bad as the levels with random stuff just thrown into it. Either trying too hard to impress, or giving no effort.

But then again I don't know if the people who do shoddy levels are kids or the ones that do great levels are lbp geniuses or visa-versa, so I can't say anything about it and just search for a level that doesn't have the creator's name plastered all over the walls in blinking lights.

Silverleon
11-23-2010, 05:48 PM
I think the only thing that PO'd me off in LBP1 was the good levels had flashy title cards and names that you COULD NEVER SKIP. The worst offender I saw would last for about 3 minutes before I could actually play the darn level. It was a pretty nice level too, but these guys have to be less show-offy. I mean, really, I don't care who you are. Just put your name in the corner of the scoreboard.

This is just as bad as the levels with random stuff just thrown into it. Either trying too hard to impress, or giving no effort.

But then again I don't know if the people who do shoddy levels are kids or the ones that do great levels are lbp geniuses or visa-versa, so I can't say anything about it and just search for a level that doesn't have the creator's name plastered all over the walls in blinking lights.

Its call having a good presentation, if the level starts with a flashy OP, people will have god expectations and see i through.
Besides, you can't blame people to wan to show others who did the level, right?
MAny epople don't care to check, and just past through without even noticing, so why do you wanna skip the creator's wish to be recognized?
You sir, are just like most of them it seems. :/

Also, people, check the date, THE DATE! :p
(This thread's like 5months old. XD)

Cheezy WEAPON
11-23-2010, 07:13 PM
I don't think I couldn't notice it when it's shown on screen for three minutes. :/

NinjaMicWZ
11-23-2010, 08:26 PM
I never liked title screens either, but there are a few where they put as much care and craft into it's design and implementation as they did in the rest of the level. People started using it to make generic stuff seem more polished and epic than it actually is. If I got to the end of a level feeling like it could have looked better or left me wanting more, then the geometry and materials in that title screen is the first thing in my mind that should have been nixed. walk bys were pretty tasteful, but many of the stilted, multiple death teleports to weird angles inside a hidden box just came off meh.

At least with 2, cinematics are open to be very well crafted and integral... and with level linking, I'm thinking a great intro level, with some cinematic development and yes, a title screen, will fit well with a long series and a well developed gameplay concept. You won't have to remind me the name of the series and creator on every subsequent level though.

jump_button
11-23-2010, 10:32 PM
I just dont want to see Littlebig.......game X we dont need and i dont want 10000 Mario adn 10000 Sonic or a 10000 what ever, I have alway and alway will just make what i want to make. I dont care if it boring or slow if im doing a puzzle level Ill only give hints

what i can tell the new rateing much better but then the real test will start when the games out

RangerZero
11-23-2010, 10:35 PM
The problem is, the majority of the people who play your level aren't going to appreciate the fact that you've spent hours and hours on polishing, perfecting and producing your level from the ground up. This'll largely because they'll be casual players looking for fun, and/or probably won't understand the scope you go to in create mode. Moreover, you can't blame the system for popularising the concepts of bomb/shark survivals - it promotes the popular levels, and like it or not, bomb/shark survivals ARE popular with lots of the community.

One thing I read that Mm are including, however, is a weighting system, whereby creators that give consistently good feedback on community creations have more weighting when reviewing them. Each review can be rated, and through that, each reviewer. So highly rated reviewers can be trusted to leave good feedback, and being rated well by them will likely result in a larger boost in popularity than if a poor reviewer were to rate it.

As for motivation for popularity, trophies based on hearts have been removed, so the emphasis will rest much less on attaining hearts from other players.

Also, one final point I'll make - most of the levels respected here on LBPC rarely get more than 10,000 plays, and many only get around 2,000. Yet these levels receive much more praise than some of the monster-played levels popular in-game. The system can only promote what it sees, however, and as it sees plays and hearts, not positive feedback, these frequented levels usually float to the top of the pile.

EDIT: Wow, didn't realise this thread was nigh on 6 months old! Mnniska, you bumper! :p

I agree with you here but the review and comments are so deep in the menus that most people won't bother and at the end of the day, it won't have much weight because of that. Heck, with the rating IN THEIR FACE but optional, there's like 50% people bothering. Just imagine when the task is a bit more complicated...

NinjaMicWZ
11-23-2010, 11:43 PM
I know I'll put the review section to good use, and hopefully my drop in the pond can push a few good things into the front of the pack.

midnight_heist
11-24-2010, 03:55 AM
Don't get me started on title cards. Ugh.
So you wasted all that thermo on that font, which could have been used for gameplay?!
It's also unskippable?! wth.

Hopefully MM expand the review section.
There is a character limit that is rather annoying (500 characters). No way you can write a detailed review imo.
Plus there needs to be some incentive to rate the reviews (like a pin or something). The highest # votes on a review I saw in the beta barely reached double digits.

Holguin86
11-24-2010, 04:56 AM
In LBPodcast ep. 95 Mm said they'd be putting in more robust reviewing features on LBP.me, hopefully with a larger character limit. And considering there's like 500 pins, I think it's very likely that one of them will be "Rate # reviews".

RangerZero
11-24-2010, 05:18 AM
Those crazy pins will create the next wave of bad behavior online like H4Hers in LBP1. When I saw LBP2 trophies, I thought MM had learn a thing or two and then they came up with those badges.
Oh well, I promised myself I would care as much as I once did this time around. I am sure to have love/hate relationship with LBP2 and that some great opportunities will be missed again by Sony and MM. And also ready for another 2 years of bad communication with the community. In short, I am ready for everything.

BRING ME THIS GAME! :P