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Arnald23
05-10-2010, 03:50 AM
What do you guys think about the logic that they will put in LBP2 you think it will be harder or a lot easier to learned also do you think the guys that created Little Big Planet Logic Pack will create the next logic pack. They are some new pics that show us some new logic like this one.
http://thesilentchief.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/lbp2_gi_2.jpg

What do you thing about logic is it hard or easy from just looking at this pic :p

JspOt
05-10-2010, 03:52 AM
Seems complex 'til you know how to use it.

agrx
05-10-2010, 03:56 AM
Honestly I'm quite comfortable with the current logic. Does anyone have an idea what this particular logic's function is? I think this will take some getting used to...

Arnald23
05-10-2010, 04:00 AM
Honestly I'm quite comfortable with the current logic. Does anyone have an idea what this particular logic's function is? I think this will take some getting used to...

Yeah u r right it will take some times to get use to it but don't worry we can learn like we did in LBP 1

Strangepom
05-10-2010, 08:01 AM
The logic in LBP 1 is lacking some things... the new stuff looks complicated but nothing a tutorial and a couple of examples can't fix.

I think it means that we will be able to do things we want without having to make workaround soloutions

Mkwone
05-10-2010, 08:56 AM
I'm sure it won't be too long after release that a few good people will give tutorials to help idiots like me get the best out of the new logic. :P

rtm223
05-10-2010, 09:39 AM
One thing is to be sure about this, it's going to be simpler to use than constructing basic logic out of individual components as we currently do. If you can put together a logic network now out of ANDs and ORs etc, then you will be able to use this stuff quite happily, I would have thought.

And, remember, you can always fall back on the old-style logic if need be, and I can probably think of many occasions when all this will likely be preferable, as the higher-level conceptual representations of logic that will be supplied will be more limited than the free-form system we have at the moment. On the other hand, we may well see game-oriented logic systems (timers, counters ect and associated display mechanisms), being implemented for us.

Basically, we are gonna have all the tools we used to have, and new tools as well. This means logic creation will be easier and more efficient :)

Teebonesy
05-10-2010, 10:06 AM
One thing is to be sure about this, it's going to be simpler to use than constructing basic logic out of individual components as we currently do. If you can put together a logic network now out of ANDs and ORs etc, then you will be able to use this stuff quite happily, I would have thought.

And, remember, you can always fall back on the old-style logic if need be, and I can probably think of many occasions when all this will likely be preferable, as the higher-level conceptual representations of logic that will be supplied will be more limited than the free-form system we have at the moment. On the other hand, we may well see game-oriented logic systems (timers, counters ect and associated display mechanisms), being implemented for us.

Basically, we are gonna have all the tools we used to have, and new tools as well. This means logic creation will be easier and more efficient :)

Yep, and we haven't seen any real logic so far - just a few basic switches and settings. No logic gates in action yet.

But the mere knowledge that an entire working calculator has been fit into a single in-game "microchip" has me very hopeful.

Biggest questions so far are - what are these logic gates going to look like and what will be included? What are the more advanced microchips going to look like?
And, the big one, what's the thermo difference? I imagine it would be substantial. I'm thinking "logic" probably now has its own dedicated thermometer, since the microchips all seem to exist free from the level's physics and in their own holographic "dimension".

mistervista
05-10-2010, 10:32 AM
The big question for me is will the new logic boards make it a lot easier to implement it in your level for people like me who still have no clue how to make logic in the original.

The inability to grasp the present logic is the 1 major factor that has held me back from making better levels and if the new logic boards are going to solve that problem for me that will be worth getting LBP2 for on it's own.

Teebonesy
05-10-2010, 10:59 AM
The big question for me is will the new logic boards make it a lot easier to implement it in your level for people like me who still have no clue how to make logic in the original.

The inability to grasp the present logic is the 1 major factor that has held me back from making better levels and if the new logic boards are going to solve that problem for me that will be worth getting LBP2 for on it's own.

You know what, I bet they're explicitly targeting just such an audience. The game's going to have nearly universal appeal, so even the "advanced" options should be presented in as accessible a manner as possible. In-depth tutorials and examples to tinker with, etc. Keep hope alive!

qrtda235566
05-10-2010, 11:07 AM
I don't like this poll. I don't think it will make logic any easier or harder than it already is. I mean, seriously, if you know how to make a complex logic gate, you're going to do it regardless of if it's physics based or not. If you don't grasp the whole aspect of logic, I doubt these hologram things will teach you. However, maybe Mm will put in better logic tutorials. The holograms, or as far as we've seen, don't look any easier or harder, they just look more efficient.

Arnald23
05-10-2010, 11:32 AM
I don't like this poll. I don't think it will make logic any easier or harder than it already is. I mean, seriously, if you know how to make a complex logic gate, you're going to do it regardless of if it's physics based or not. If you don't grasp the whole aspect of logic, I doubt these hologram things will teach you. However, maybe Mm will put in better logic tutorials. The holograms, or as far as we've seen, don't look any easier or harder, they just look more efficient.

you r right but the poll is asking What do you think the logic in LBP2 from just looking at the pics, that is if you are good with logic gate we are asking you.

Snappyguy
05-10-2010, 11:37 AM
I was never good at logic. Permanent switches still mess me up.

But to me, that bit in the middle looks like an AND switch. Or whatever. One that has multiple inputs and 1 output. Just because it has 4 arrows =P

mistervista
05-10-2010, 11:44 AM
I was never good at logic. Permanent switches still mess me up.

But to me, that bit in the middle looks like an AND switch. Or whatever. One that has multiple inputs and 1 output. Just because it has 4 arrows =P

LOL there you go, just shows how rubbish I am at logic. I thought it was a tortoise and the 4 arrows were to set the movement of each leg !

Bloo_boy
05-10-2010, 11:48 AM
lol trust me, i think nobody in the world sucks more at logic than myself, i suck at it so much i havent even made 1 level :O XD

Snappyguy
05-10-2010, 11:49 AM
I think more people would want a turtle anyways.

Arnald23
05-10-2010, 11:54 AM
lol trust me, i think nobody in the world sucks more at logic than myself, i suck at it so much i havent even made 1 level :O XD

Hey dude nobody is good with logic it took me sometime to learn it but still anyone can learn logic it just takes sometime :p

Shadowriver
05-10-2010, 12:03 PM
Looking at rumors i see MM trieng to implement things that people used workarounds to use them,so i think:

-Minimalisation (in size) of logic solutions, for example OR, AND, XOR and NOT gates (this one is not quite needed becaus invertation options) in form of ready switches. Switching from mechanic solutions to electronic was thing that happened in real life too ;]
-Calculation features: looking at number stichers on screen also rumors about HUD customalization, calculation fuctions will be probably even requiered (specialy to this 2nd thing)
-If calculations.... maybe vars and access to specific values of objects
-I seen on screen some kind of control switches in shape of PS D-Pad butttons, so maybe switches will have multiplay numer of ports per switch
-This might sound as suggestion but... nodes, are really needed (for me at least), OR gates might be too limited
Anyway 1st one is a best way to evolute logic systemes in LBP, mechanical solution is too buggy

rtm223
05-10-2010, 12:03 PM
The inability to grasp the present logic is the 1 major factor that has held me back from making better levels and if the new logic boards are going to solve that problem for me that will be worth getting LBP2 for on it's own.


You know what, I bet they're explicitly targeting just such an audience

Indeed, but remember that the design issues involved with creating logic systems will always require a certain amount of understanding to implement, regardless of the tools available (which is what keeps me in a job :p). So depending on exactly what is causing you hassle, mrV, will depend on how much these systems will help. However:


I mean, seriously, if you know how to make a complex logic gate, you're going to do it regardless of if it's physics based or not. If you don't grasp the whole aspect of logic, I doubt these hologram things will teach you.

I don't really agree with this. What these devices will do is allow for a higher level of abstraction, which is fantastically useful to all skill levels. To explain what I mean by this, take an AND function. At the moment, if you want an AND function, you have to simulate it using a system of connectors and magentics. With these, if you want an AND function, you select the AND function. You no longer need to be fiddling around with all the underlying details of it. This will reduce the amount of time to build, and the number of things that can go wrong. Yes, you still need to be able to design a network of logic, but there is far less to take into account, so if you don't naturally take to this stuff, you can focus on the higher level of achieving the end goal, rather than wondering wtf all these pistons are doing? :)


The concept of microchips further allows for this - expect giveaway logic to be in the form of a microchip that will just have inputs and outputs neatly marked up, allowing very much more plug-and-play logic to be designed, for the purposes of sharing.



And for the more advanced logic creators, the higher levels of abstraction become even more useful as it will now be far more geared up towards modular design and standard engineering processes of design and development - your complex system become a set of subsystems, which can be designed and tested independently into their own microchips, rather than having all of the detail visible at once.

Arnald23
05-10-2010, 12:14 PM
Remember that we can learn logic it just takes some time also I wounder will the guys that made little big planet logic pack will create the next one?

Shadowriver
05-10-2010, 12:18 PM
Remember that we can learn logic it just takes some time also I wounder will the guys that made little big planet logic pack will create the next one?

If LBP2 logic won't be mechanical those pack might be not even needed

rtm223
05-10-2010, 12:24 PM
If LBP2 logic won't be mechanical those pack might be not even needed

Well, it depends. Just because the new system will abstract things for us does not mean that everyone is going to instantly be able to use it, logic design is still going to be a massive part of the community and there will be plenty of scope for tutorials and for sharing of logic techniques after the new tools are available, as that is all they are: tools.

As for whether we will make a new logic pack... time will tell. I wouldn't hold your breath though ;)

Snappyguy
05-10-2010, 12:27 PM
Hey, maybe Stephen Fry can teach us a bit about the logic. You'd learn anything said by that accent.

Shadowriver
05-10-2010, 12:30 PM
You right but i surly would eliminate 2 first levels of this pack, or change it to more about theory tutorials, logic gates theory is quite easy to learn :p

Holguin86
05-10-2010, 12:30 PM
Well - if you don't want to use microchips to make logic, you don't have to - if the game is completely BC then old logic systems will work with the new game. I will be using the microchip method though - far more simple, reliable and visual. How d'you reckon they'll deal with the problem of multiple inputs or outputs? Will there be "hotspots" on the circuit board you can attach wires to which when minimised allows those wires to be attached to other things? Come to think of it - logic design is likely to get veeeery complicated if it can be rationalised so much. We will be needing an LBP2 Logic Pack, methinks!

Bloo_boy
05-10-2010, 12:31 PM
Im hoping it will be easier to like use multiple actions to open like 1 door, by the looks of those switches....... it looks like that was the intentions to make Logic perhaps more simpler etc...

Shadowriver
05-10-2010, 12:38 PM
Im hoping it will be easier to like use multiple actions to open like 1 door, by the looks of those switches....... it looks like that was the intentions to make Logic perhaps more simpler etc...

Thats why i said Nodes are needed, LBP1 is annoying without them and you have ton of wires to connect to one very far point sometimes :p

rtm223
05-10-2010, 12:39 PM
logic gates theory is quite easy to learn :p

Yes, basic logic gate theory is simple to learn, system design is not.

@holguin, I am hoping your microchips will have dedicated i/o ports, with customisable number of each available. If not, they'd be far too limited to be worthwhile.

Shadowriver
05-10-2010, 12:41 PM
Yes, basic logic gate theory is simple to learn, system design is not..

Only if you want do advance things ;]

mistervista
05-10-2010, 12:48 PM
Hey dude nobody is good with logic it took me sometime to learn it but still anyone can learn logic it just takes sometime :p

Sorry but I don't agree with that. I've been playing LBP since day one and done every logic tutorial I can find from snowflakecat's totally over my head engineering basement to the logic pack and I just don't understand it and never will. In life some people are naturally gifted at some things and other people aren't. Take snooker, I would give anything to be able to play like Ronnie O'Sullivan but if I practised 24 hours a day for my entire life I'd never be a tenth as good. It's unfortunate but true.


So depending on exactly what is causing you hassle, mrV, will depend on how much these systems will help. .

Well 1 example is that elevator control in the logic pack. I have studied that until I'm blue in the face but although I can see different switches moving I have no idea why they are moving, what they are doing or what they are connected to. It just means nothing to me whatsoever.

rtm223
05-10-2010, 01:47 PM
In life some people are naturally gifted at some things and other people aren't. In some ways this is especially true with logic, it's very much a mindset thing, learning to think in certain ways, however:



Well 1 example is that elevator control in the logic pack. I have studied that until I'm blue in the face but although I can see different switches moving I have no idea why they are moving, what they are doing or what they are connected to. It just means nothing to me whatsoever.

It could well be that you are suffering from a "can't see the wood for the trees" issue here. With so much going on, it's hard to see the bigger picture to know what is happening. The new style will hide away the implementation details (how each function works, the connectors etc), and just give you a view of what you need to know (this is an AND connected to an OR). It possibly won't help you get the mindset down, but it should simplify the ideas so there is not so much to comprehend at once, so overall, it should make logic easier for you.

ShiftyDog
05-10-2010, 08:10 PM
Is Mm going to provide us logic in our popit?

flamingemu
05-10-2010, 08:13 PM
logicpack 2 anyone?

Shadowriver
05-10-2010, 08:23 PM
Is Mm going to provide us logic in our popit?

Looking at pic with sit controls, looks like it will be hide/show circuits, so you can minimize your logic circuit to 1 point ;] also lot of kind of switches so you don't need to do buggy mechanical solutions. Logic gates will be represented probably like that:

http://www.windowsnetworking.com/img/upl/image0041217511658265.jpg

This is how they looking real life logic schematic

XOR (Exclusive OR) is a gate that works like OR but when both inputs will get 1 it will return 0
NOT is inverter

Keanster96
05-10-2010, 08:25 PM
Lol! Spaff has voted in this poll! Guess he thinks it's easy...

rtm223
05-10-2010, 08:27 PM
Well at least we know he's not biassed in any way :p


buggy mechanical solutions.

There's no reason why the mechanical versions are any buggier than the new style.... They are just less efficient, harder to design and maybe slower. I do wonder what the latency will be on these new devices, I must say...


On a side note, I really hope we can have inversion on the inputs of gates, rather than having to add NOTs all over the place, that was a major bonus of piston/winch logic IMO (not one that overshadows the obvious bonuses of this, but still, it's nice)

X-FROGBOY-X
05-10-2010, 08:32 PM
I think it will probably be easy, just because. :)

Shadowriver
05-10-2010, 08:38 PM
There's no reason why the mechanical versions are any buggier than the new style.... They are just less efficient, harder to design and maybe slower. I do wonder what the latency will be on these new devices, I must say...

This is what i mean by saying buggy (yea i used wrong word), specially in terms latency. "Electronical" solutions should work on instance, they process values by game code (not game physics as mechanical solution). If you ever worked with Starcraft 2 editor triggers there can handle lot of processing and they work instance fast

Arnald23
05-10-2010, 08:45 PM
Hey guys have 2 watch the Little Big Planet 2 trailer XD


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0KNG18XuDQ&feature=player_embedded

Ok from just looking at it the logic looks hard but still this game will be incredible

rtm223
05-10-2010, 08:46 PM
I'd imagine they are going to be faster, (especially after aya's recent experiments showing how fast he can get his latches to update), but there are potentially serious negative implications for instantaneous / delta propagation times. I'd imagine the propagation times will be clocked along with however fast the engine itself updates, but we shall see :)

Doopz
05-10-2010, 09:01 PM
Lol! Spaff has voted in this poll! Guess he thinks it's easy...

Wait, what? How'd you know Spaff voted?

On topic:

I'm guessing this will be a lot easier to use and probably save a lot of thermo space too, otherwise, it'd be pointless, wouldn't it? :)

Azkazan
05-10-2010, 09:04 PM
They haven't really said much about how the new logic is gonna work, they just said they have it. So far, the only apparent benefit is that it saves a butt-load of therm. That in itself is great.

DarkFray
05-10-2010, 09:15 PM
Somehow I see this as a lot more simplified. Perhaps that Motherboard material it's placed on acts just like that. A Mother Board (and thus replacing Dark Matter as a Logic Cornerstone). If its done how I think it will be, then I forsee a lot less Pistons and Winches in logic, and more people will be able to program their levels how they want it to be, without expert skill or thermo useage (which will hopefully be lengthened).

Edit: Okay, I just watched the Trailer... And I nearly shat myself.
I am now more excited for this than EVER before. This makes the first game I can literally NOT wait for.

Arnald23
05-10-2010, 09:28 PM
Somehow I see this as a lot more simplified. Perhaps that Motherboard material it's placed on acts just like that. A Mother Board (and thus replacing Dark Matter as a Logic Cornerstone). If its done how I think it will be, then I forsee a lot less Pistons and Winches in logic, and more people will be able to program their levels how they want it to be, without expert skill or thermo useage (which will hopefully be lengthened).

Edit: Okay, I just watched the Trailer... And I nearly shat myself.
I am now more excited for this than EVER before. This makes the first game I can literally NOT wait for.

Yeah dude you r right this is incredible XD

Holguin86
05-10-2010, 09:52 PM
Forgive me for picking holes in this great technique, but I'm worried there could be some limitations in this system.

Things like sequencers (which may yet become obsolete) will still need to be constructed from scratch, as may timers, set-resets, toggles, PERMs and multi-input ANDs and ORs (unless you want to stack ANDs and ORs for all your inputs, or the number of inputs for each gate is customisable). Inputs and outputs will have to be squeaky clean - unless you connect up everything while the microchip is expanded then minimise it.

DarkFray
05-10-2010, 10:06 PM
Yeah dude you r right this is incredible XD

After seeing all the flak not even 2 days ago on LBP2, I think that MM just effectively wiped everyone's slate clean with that.
One thing I have to applaud: Moving objects from a back plane, forward.

That's just going to be amazing.

Arnald23
05-10-2010, 10:19 PM
After seeing all the flak not even 2 days ago on LBP2, I think that MM just effectively wiped everyone's slate clean with that.
One thing I have to applaud: Moving objects from a back plane, forward.

That's just going to be amazing.

Yeah dude I cant wait also check out this links they say that LBP 2 will be coming this years! I will be making a thread about this.

Little Big Planet 2 Music Announcements At E3: http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3179208
Little Big Planet 2 Also Coming To PSP?: http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3179209
Why LBP2 Is A Retail Game And Not A DLC Expansion: http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3179210
Little Big Planet 2 Officially Announced, Social Website LBP.me To Launch As Well: http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=31792

JspOt
05-10-2010, 11:12 PM
If Spaff says it's easy, it's easy.
Nuff said.

Arnald23
05-10-2010, 11:25 PM
If Spaff says it's easy, it's easy.
Nuff said.

Really tell the spaff thanks 4 your supporter:royalty:

JspOt
05-10-2010, 11:37 PM
And Spaff really did say it was easy. Look at the poll results.

Schwem00
05-11-2010, 12:38 AM
I think it will be easy, and I hope its better then LBP1 Logic. I tried making a combanation switch in LBP1, and found out that an and switch with 4 cubes is hard to make, since it broke on me about 100 times.

Teebonesy
05-11-2010, 12:48 AM
Forgive me for picking holes in this great technique, but I'm worried there could be some limitations in this system.

Things like sequencers (which may yet become obsolete) will still need to be constructed from scratch, as may timers, set-resets, toggles, PERMs and multi-input ANDs and ORs (unless you want to stack ANDs and ORs for all your inputs, or the number of inputs for each gate is customisable). Inputs and outputs will have to be squeaky clean - unless you connect up everything while the microchip is expanded then minimise it.

We have no idea what the logic's going to really look like yet. We've seen some microchips and circuit boards in action, but I don't think we've seen a single logic gate yet.

For all we know there's a tweakable "AND" tool that allows you to set the number of inputs - or maybe it takes an unlimited number of inputs? One thing we have seen all the switches share is one single little port. Why not just be able to connect unlimited cables to a single AND gate, if such a thing is in fact included? It would do exactly what they're going for which is greatly reduce clutter and thermo load.

There may be a toggle included. There may be a permanent switch included. We haven't seen anything yet - unless I'm missing some crucial screenshot somewhere!

I'm holding out hope that it's going to at least include some free-form options. I hope that thinks like sequencers, timers, relays, and the like will be possible wthin the circuit boards, but I'm still not sure what the more complicated ones even look like at this point!

GreatWhite000
05-11-2010, 01:09 AM
Looks pretty easy, if you know logic. All we'll need is to get used to the new switches.

comphermc
05-11-2010, 01:30 AM
From theG4 Interview (http://g4tv.com/games/ps3/63750/littlebigplanet-2/articles/70759/LittleBigPlanet-2-Interview-Alex-Evans/):


Evans: It’s funny because we were building everything physically. What we try to do is take abstract ideas like an AND gate and make it completely physical. The fact that you’re wiring it up and the sound effects are all like, “clunk, whirr, zzz,” makes it feel real. So we arrived at the microchip, ironically, from a very physical standpoint. It’s like, OK, we have this idea of wires and switches and stuff. Let’s expand upon it. The microchips weren’t in there originally. People were just gluing this stuff to the back wall of the level, wiring it up. And then someone said, “I’d love to be able to package that. I’d love to be able to do [the wiring] and say, ‘Don’t worry about that. It’s done now.’” That was the idea of the microchips.

You can have microchips within microchips within microchips. The idea snowballed. You build a small set of axioms -- a small set of ideas -- and on them great things are built. We didn’t realize the power of it until we’d done it accidentally almost.

Read more: http://g4tv.com/games/ps3/63750/littlebigplanet-2/articles/70759/LittleBigPlanet-2-Interview-Alex-Evans/#ixzz0na1hnoZy


Looks like we need not fear the microchips. If they claim that they became so powerful completely by accident, then I'm willing to believe they are pretty darn powerful.

:)

Arnald23
05-11-2010, 12:11 PM
From theG4 Interview (http://g4tv.com/games/ps3/63750/littlebigplanet-2/articles/70759/LittleBigPlanet-2-Interview-Alex-Evans/):



Looks like we need not fear the microchips. If they claim that they became so powerful completely by accident, then I'm willing to believe they are pretty darn powerful.

:)

Thats cool

Super_Dork_42
05-11-2010, 02:12 PM
Bloo_boy, I can teach you and others who haven't figured out logic some stuff, if you want.
I am certainly not the best, but I am working on a logic level which teaches the basics of how to make and implement reliable logic that takes little thermo room.

Arnald23
05-11-2010, 08:13 PM
Bloo_boy, I can teach you and others who haven't figured out logic some stuff, if you want.
I am certainly not the best, but I am working on a logic level which teaches the basics of how to make and implement reliable logic that takes little thermo room.

Dude I think they already invented the logic pack lol XD

Super_Dork_42
05-12-2010, 08:12 AM
True, but I have logic that I'm working on that is even more consistent and less thermo-intensive than theirs, that tells you how, while teaching more expansively how logic works on a basic level, in a different way.

Sehven
05-12-2010, 09:54 AM
It might be nice if instead of having pre-defined AND gates and whatnot, we were able to build our own gates. Of course, I have no idea how that would be implemented other than the physical method we use now, so that may not be a possibility. I just wonder how they could possibly cover all possibilities. Obviously we'll have AND's and OR's and so on. Will they give us toggles? What about n state machines? Counters? A counter that can be added to and subtracted from? Timers? Will you be able to add time to a timer while it's running? (ex. a race with a two minute clock but every time you hit a checkpoint, it adds 10 seconds)


Lol! Spaff has voted in this poll! Guess he thinks it's easy...

He seems to be popping in a lot with cryptic little tidbits. I suppose the fact that he didn't comment and elaborate on how logic works means it's not finished yet or they're just not ready to reveal it yet. Or maybe he's busy and doesn't have time to answer every little question we have about a game that's about 6 months out.

rtm223
05-12-2010, 10:47 AM
It might be nice if instead of having pre-defined AND gates and whatnot, we were able to build our own gates. Of course, I have no idea how that would be implemented other than the physical method we use now, so that may not be a possibility. I just wonder how they could possibly cover all possibilities. Obviously we'll have AND's and OR's and so on. Will they give us toggles?

They won't be able to cover all possibilities. Basic gates (ANDs ORs) are a must, as far as I'm concerned. I'd expect latches /toggles etc. to be provided, but if they aren't, expect microchip versions to be available on release day.


What about n state machines? Counters? A counter that can be added to and subtracted from? Timers? Will you be able to add time to a timer while it's running? (ex. a race with a two minute clock but every time you hit a checkpoint, it adds 10 seconds)

I think a state machine is too generic a term to really be implimented in a generic manner, but for the sake of scoring etc, I'd imagine that some arithmetic units (with associated display mechanisms) are a possibility. At the moment I'm struggling to think of a convenient method for achieving this (I mean convenient for n00bs), but I'm sure there is a way. It makes a lot of sense to provide some form of encapsulated arithmetic functions in some form, that hook straight into the processor, rather than requiring the user to simulate the required digital circuitry. But even if they don't, microchips will make all that a lot easier.

Arnald23
05-12-2010, 11:43 AM
rtm223 and Sehven both of you have some preppy strong argument about logic :D

rtm223
05-12-2010, 11:53 AM
I think we're more just fascinated and heavilly speculating :) You can't really have any arguments when you have no information to base them upon :p

Rogar
05-12-2010, 12:01 PM
Well, there is one bit of information that I haven't seen anyone connect to the microchip image yet. Mm talked about making logic tangible or visual or something, something with moving parts, to make it easy to understand. I've looked at the microchip, but it doesn't look like anything is moving there. The best I can think of is that those arrows on the middle part will move outward, and all arrows out gives a signal (like a mechanical AND gate). But it doesn't really make sense, as the other two parts on the chip look like output gates to me.

grayspence
05-12-2010, 12:10 PM
I really hope they make a tutorial video on how to create the most helpful logic switches. I rubbish at logic!

tanrockstan34
05-12-2010, 12:54 PM
The microchips sound like they would make it easier for people who understand a bit about logic versus people who don't. Unless they provide predefined AND and OR switches as other people have stated. From what I have read about microchips from various sources there will be an area where you can place all the logic you have created and then it gets absorbed (minimised) into the microchip. This could cause problems for everybody depending on if there is predefined logic gates how will they work, one gate to a microchip. Will it produce one by itself for you to use? It can also cause problems with advance logic creators who impliment it (saying that it will function the way stated above) and the wiring gets messed up.

Maybe the microchip is where all the more complicated logic systems go (counters, timers, set-reset, etc) and we can use PCB material with transistors which would get placed onto the board and that will make up the more common gates.

We could keep guessing but at this stage it is pointless, there are a million different theories to this and probably bits and pieces of each one is correct.

Shadowriver
05-12-2010, 01:55 PM
Maybe the microchip is where all the more complicated logic systems go (counters, timers, set-reset, etc) and we can use PCB material with transistors which would get placed onto the board and that will make up the more common gates.

Transistors? XD I think this is little too far, they are quite advance things and only one signal that can have values from -1 to 1 would not be enough to fully simulate it's function

rtm223
05-12-2010, 02:59 PM
Indeed, even if we took a very simplified model of transistors (treating them like relays), expecting the community to build devices at the transistor level is something that is far too unintuitive to be practical, IMO. if anything this would be a step backwards for the game - the idea is to make less work for people implementing logic, not more :)

Rogar
05-12-2010, 03:34 PM
Come on, guys! You disappoint me. We have a picture of a floating caterpillar, and a picture of the circuitboards used by its segments. We should be able to figure out how it works... :confused:

PoD CREW
05-12-2010, 03:40 PM
Easier, seeing all those key indicators, they will make logic systems alot more complex therefore easier to use and more efficient. :)

rtm223
05-12-2010, 03:42 PM
@rogar: I could give you my real theory:

Magic :)

Rogar
05-12-2010, 03:48 PM
Right. Here's another idea: we trick, bribe, intimidate or otherwise force our way to another more informative picture. Does anyone know the home addresses of Mm staff? ;)

Shadowriver
05-12-2010, 03:52 PM
Come on, guys! You disappoint me. We have a picture of a floating caterpillar, and a picture of the circuitboards used by its segments. We should be able to figure out how it works... :confused:

I don't know about this arrow thingy, but my head saying that rocket thing add force to object... maybe clearer, object became engine :) You ever played with OE-Cake, there material called Jet and makes things moving, i think this thingy will do the same to the object and start to act like "Jet" from OE-Cake.

As i said earlier i think microchip is a space where you can place switch-stuff and microchip apply there abilities. Red key inside microchip = Red switches will react on that microchip when it will be nearby

Rogar
05-12-2010, 04:01 PM
Yes, I read you theory, but what does that mean for the caterpiller in the picture? Why would it have a violet(?) key on every segment? Where is the switch that triggers off these keys? The rocket could be propulsion or float, but how is the circle with four arrows involved in this? How does it work?

By the way, are there two different colour keys, or is that just the light?

Edit: Alright, here's a theory: the thing with the four arrows is a direction sensor. It is configured to seek the closest blue key within a frontal arrow and drives the rocket thingy to move in that direction. The head of the caterpillar is controlled by a DC chair and contains a blue key, so the rest will follow in file.

Or maybe the 4 arrows means output. There seems to be a wire loop sticking out upwards to the left from each segment

Another edit: it looks like those wire loops are actually behind the segments, and you see them through the material somehow. There's one for each chip. Or is it just a spring or something that links the segments together?

Shadowriver
05-12-2010, 05:03 PM
Interesting theory :)
Also note that each caterpillar segments have trianged ends at corners, if force on all segments will go left they should not escape from other segments

Here similar thing, cosset space ships from trailer:

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/4338/lbp2.png

looking on then, this arrow thing might be gravity regulator for object (it removes gravity effect from them) and get as i said makes movement. The whole logic for caterpillar might be in seat (that is waring like microchip too).
Note also that ship explodes, there might be element that makes object explode on specific trigger

I find other image with logic:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1103/4594232427_899d1e4011.jpg

Note a logic wires (same as on that mecha thing on other shot) in bounder connected to some elements, they have even output and input ;]

Sehven
05-12-2010, 05:51 PM
Come on, guys! You disappoint me. We have a picture of a floating caterpillar, and a picture of the circuitboards used by its segments. We should be able to figure out how it works... :confused:

Right. We have one picture of exploded microchips that doesn't seem to depict any actual logic. Just a mag key, a spaceship object and an as yet unidentified object, wirh no wires connecting anything. Now we know that wires are still represented visually because we can see them in the walker pic, so either the spaceship and 4-arrow-thing don't need wires or they haven't been hooked up yet. Either way, it's not enough to figure out how the system works.... which is why it's driving me crazy.


Interesting theory :) Note a logic wires (same as on that mecha thing on other shot) in bounder connected to some elements, they have even output and input ;]

I don't think that's logic. The circuit board there is just a building material and those round things look like the little spools that we have under the wheel section of our popits (the kind that the wooden steed uses for wheels-these seem to have blue thread though). You can see the same pattern on them, including the bit of the label that's been torn away.

Shadowriver
05-12-2010, 06:56 PM
I don't think that's logic. The circuit board there is just a building material and those round things look like the little spools that we have under the wheel section of our popits (the kind that the wooden steed uses for wheels-these seem to have blue thread though). You can see the same pattern on them, including the bit of the label that's been torn away.

I know it just a material (i didn't even notice it lol), but logic can work outside microchips you know, if key is inside it then you can place other things outside it ;] note that wires looks the same as in legged pic
There also mysteries unwired blue switch near the TV buttons.

Sehven
05-12-2010, 08:03 PM
I'm still fairly sure the lines connecting the spools aren't logic. It's hard to be positive without a higher res pic, but it just doesn't look like there's anything on the spools for wires to connect to. Also the wires in the other pic are a darker brown (though the color difference may just be a result of the camera that took the picture). I'm thinking it's just a rod or string or something.

I didn't notice before, but there are actually different colored spools. I can see two green ones, a purple one, two blue ones (one looks to be a different shade of blue), and I think the one on the bottom is red.

As for the mysterious switch, good observation. At first glance I thought it was just a sensor switch, but upon closer examination (wish there was a higher res version of this pic available) it looks like a little ball in the middle with a pointy thing on top. I notice that there's no wire sticking off of it or any of the other objects we've seen so far. Perhaps instead of grabbing wires from switches, we'll have a wire tool? Or it could just be that you grab the wire from the middle of the switch or from those little tab looking things on the edge.

Completely changing the subject: I hope they give us player tracker objects that can track precisely (not like the ones we build now) like the spotlight from the intro in lbp1. It would also be nice if we could assign them to track individual players (the intro spot tracks player 1, completely ignoring player 2).

Shadowriver
05-12-2010, 10:08 PM
That would be cool and useful ;] making moving cameras tracking your every step. It would be special motor that rotates to specific object direction.

If we on this subject, we know that by wire you can transmit values real number values from -1 to 1 or 0 to 1 (in other words from 0% to 100%) by speed and most moment element have maximums and minimums (Piston for example), it would be nice if we ware able to set position of moment element between minimum end maximum by thay that value.

Other interesting pic from Qore preview:

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/9373/lbp21.png

LCD Display!
It's from that level where sackbots fallow you, it might indicate number of sackbots following you or inside that area :> ...might be just a sticker... but come on, promoted as a "gameing platform" and don't have number programing? :p

rtm223
05-12-2010, 10:28 PM
LCD Display!
It's from that level where sackbots fallow you, it might indicate number of sackbots following you or inside that area :> ...might be just a sticker... but come on, promoted as a "gameing platform" and don't have number programing? :p

I am hoping for some arithmetic manipulation built in. I was trying to think up a decent system for doing calculations on variables, via a gui, in a manner that would be very, very easy for anyone to understand whilst being easily integrated into the level itself.

On the other hand, pause the video at 0:34 (where there is the fullscreen popit of stickers. You might find yourself disappointed :(

Shadowriver
05-12-2010, 10:46 PM
On the other hand, pause the video at 0:34 (where there is the fullscreen popit of stickers. You might find yourself disappointed :(

Then look at this:

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/9373/lbp21.png

At first frames on that scene you can see gray color fade-in some segments of that LCD (for ming a 0 with that black number 1), it's not ordinary "sticker" thats for sure ;]

Sehven
05-12-2010, 10:57 PM
It does look like an actual lcd. Even if it's not, I'm sure we can make one that works well enough. Heck I can think of a trick (http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?24352-Smokeless-demitting-sort-of) to do it right now.

emekcrash
05-12-2010, 11:07 PM
The easier the logic is to use, the more complex logic we will get from the community. As one member of this forum has said (I can't remember who xD), the age of Logic Gods is coming.

Ps. Look at what Spaff has voted for: http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=371

CAPTAIN PLANET
05-12-2010, 11:30 PM
I picked up logic in lbp1 pretty fast, before most levels about it were out.... i just got it from the story mode... maybe it will be the same way... but i cant figure out what those glowing things on the chips are
http://thesilentchief.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/lbp2_gi_2.jpg

Arnald23
05-12-2010, 11:41 PM
The easier the logic is to use, the more complex logic we will get from the community. As one member of this forum has said (I can't remember who xD), the age of Logic Gods is coming.

Ps. Look at what Spaff has voted for: http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=371

Thanks 4 the info dude :p

jackofcourse
05-12-2010, 11:44 PM
Your mind is going to be blown by some of the stuff. Logic for beginners will be so simple, and I can't wait to see what some of you nerds do with some of the more technical stuff :)

Arnald23
05-12-2010, 11:51 PM
Your mind is going to be blown by some of the stuff. Logic for beginners will be so simple, and I can't wait to see what some of you nerds do with some of the more technical stuff :)

Some of us are not nerds dude but I get what u r saying. Imagine someone create the next calculator in LBP 2 that is going to be crazy :p

AeroForce22
05-12-2010, 11:54 PM
I find other image with logic:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1103/4594232427_899d1e4011.jpg

Note a logic wires (same as on that mecha thing on other shot) in bounder connected to some elements, they have even output and input ;]

I'm fairly confident in saying that those spools, and what appear to be rods/straws of some sort are not logic at all. They look like they're only there to keep the caterpillar from escaping its enclosed area. Somewhat like a fence.

Also if that's a real LCD screen, I'll be so very happy. Although hasn't it been mentioned somewhere that certain stickers are animated?

EDIT: Good news. The sticker for the similar looking numbers has a black background. The image on the TV screen does not. It's just a pale green. Hint hint anyone?

emekcrash
05-13-2010, 01:50 AM
Your mind is going to be blown by some of the stuff. Logic for beginners will be so simple, and I can't wait to see what some of you nerds do with some of the more technical stuff :)

... said a guy that makes mind un-comprehending logic. :D

Sehven
05-13-2010, 05:01 AM
Your mind is going to be blown by some of the stuff. Logic for beginners will be so simple, and I can't wait to see what some of you nerds do with some of the more technical stuff :)

I take it then that you're in the know? Is Mm having you design levels for them?

Incinerator22
05-13-2010, 05:26 AM
Jack is torturing us :frightened:

On Topic: The Neogaf LBP2 quote mentions this:


There is an in-game microchip that functions as a calculator and it is a direct response/homage to PSN user Upsilandre (seriously, he's mentioned by name)

Any thoughts or ideas?

rtm223
05-13-2010, 08:41 AM
Some of us are not nerds dude but I get what u r saying. Imagine someone create the next calculator in LBP 2 that is going to be crazy :p

In general, the preferred term is geek. Get it right next time jack or you'll get a slapping when I see you ;)

TBH, with the addition of these logic-based tools, actually building a working calculator or CPU seems like it would be too easy to actually be particularly interesting....

Teebonesy
05-13-2010, 08:59 AM
Any thoughts or ideas?

They're just saying that they've recreated a working calculator using LBP2's tools and contained it within a single microchip.

Why, you may ask?

Well we all remember seeing that calculator. I think it was, for most of us, the earliest "mind-blowing" thing we saw in the game. This giant towering creation of moving parts, pistons, wheels, mag keys, cables EVERYWHERE, all to make a working calculator in a game with nothing more than mechanical parts. It was like looking at a Charles Babbage difference engine. it was just insane.
Nearly everyone saw this too, early on it was ubiquitous - made during the beta and one of the earliest levels available when the game launched.

Including it in a tiny microchip is Mm's way of saying "Remember that mind-blow a couple years ago? Check out THIS mind-blow."
I think we can all take it as a hint that a calculator in LBP2 is, as rtm suggests, child's play. Prepare to be absolutely blown away by what the crazies put together in this sequel.

Clue: comphermc and rtm223 will be among them.

Sehven
05-13-2010, 10:06 AM
Any thoughts or ideas?

The impression I got was that they used the game's logic tools to wire up a calculator and put it in a microchip. That may not be the case, though; they might've just made a calculator object using game code and made that into a microchip.

Arnald23
05-13-2010, 11:57 AM
WOW this is incredible people are thinking that in LBP 2 the logic is going to be easy that what the results says XD

Rogar
05-13-2010, 12:54 PM
Alright, I found out you can actually enlarge pictures on flickr and I had a better look, so here's my latest theory. There's something sticking from the bottom of each caterpiller segment, it might be something like a rocket. We've seen in the walker pictures that there still are wires in logic. So maybe when you connect stuff like a rocket to a microchip with a wire, a rocket icon appears in the microchip.

There's also a squarish thing on the inside of the inward curve of the segments, but I have no idea what that is. Anyone?

tanrockstan34
05-13-2010, 12:59 PM
I have a feeling it might be a calculator object as Sehven said but maybe that LCD screen was tweakable and you can set it to what you want it to out put. If you could then it might possibly be a calculator when you stick a microchip on it. Just my thoughts, as I don't think they would have recreated the whole LBCalculator and placed it in a microchip. Even though microchips condense logic they still have to have an effect on the thermo depending on what they store in them I guess.

Off Topic: The LCD screen does look real but has anyone possibly thought that we could have dynamic stickers. Not the LCD screen though because that has a different color.

Off Topic: Firefox tried to correct "color" and suggested I replace it with "colour", wrong nation. 8D

Shadowriver
05-13-2010, 01:47 PM
If wires would carry numbers i see it like that:

-Algebraic calculator as logic gate a f b = c (f = + or - or * or /), they would also work with speed values.
-IF gates would be good also, sending signal if it's meeting the conditions ;]
-all current sensors would return number of sackpersons or keys in specific area.
-All LBP1 triggerable elements (including logic gates) would react on value 1 or more and lower 1 would be speed as real value
-LCD display would show current state/value in wire

Maybe it's my imagination, but such abstract value type system is possible :p

Arnald23
05-13-2010, 08:38 PM
If wires would carry numbers i see it like that:

-Algebraic calculator as logic gate a f b = c (f = + or - or * or /), they would also work with speed values.
-IF gates would be good also, sending signal if it's meeting the conditions ;]
-all current sensors would return number of sackpersons or keys in specific area.
-All LBP1 triggerable elements (including logic gates) would react on value 1 or more and lower 1 would be speed as real value
-LCD display would show current state/value in wire

Maybe it's my imagination, but such abstract value type system is possible :p

You r right dude :p

R0GUE--Elite
05-13-2010, 09:27 PM
The microchips could work similarly to how chips work in Gary's mod (although i have never played Gary's mod ^^). You may be able to wire multiple wires up to an AND gate and the chip will activate when all the wires have been activated. AND, OR etc gates will probably be ready made. Theres probably a delay chip too which allows you to tweak the time between input and output...

Arnald23
05-13-2010, 09:41 PM
The microchips could work similarly to how chips work in Gary's mod (although i have never played Gary's mod ^^). You may be able to wire multiple wires up to an AND gate and the chip will activate when all the wires have been activated. AND, OR etc gates will probably be ready made. Theres probably a delay chip too which allows you to tweak the time between input and output...

Thanks 4 the info dude also this is incredible im #1 in [LBP2] Speculation and Suggestions :p thanks for all your support guys and keep giving your opinion :love:

ps: I just realize but this is the 100 comment :p

Shadowriver
05-13-2010, 09:56 PM
The microchips could work similarly to how chips work in Gary's mod (although i have never played Gary's mod ^^). You may be able to wire multiple wires up to an AND gate and the chip will activate when all the wires have been activated. AND, OR etc gates will probably be ready made. Theres probably a delay chip too which allows you to tweak the time between input and output...

Huh? GMod use LUA scripting as i know (and scripting is something easier for pros then playing with objective logic gates :p), i find some WireMod for GMod but not much information on that.

rtm223
05-13-2010, 10:05 PM
I was thinking along the same lines as shadowriver for the arithmetic system.

New output type, number. Which for mag switches could count the magnetic keys in their radius, prox's, number of sacks. You could probably pull a couple of other "easy to understand" sources out of there too (timers and the like). Probably kept as integers so that it's all a bit basic for the noobs. Individual nodes for functions such as addition, subtraction, multiply and divide could go in there. The "ifs" that you speak of would really just be comparators, that would output a bool. So equality, greater than, and it outputs an on/off or directional signal. Additional devices that are directly by numbers (displays etc) and maybe a converter between numeric and speed.

With something as basic as that, you could have some pretty robust and highly efficient arithmetic logic that is easy to understand and wire up (you'd still be wiring like normal logic at this point). Leave it to the community to create converters too and from binary and job's a good'un, full integration to achieve just about anything you could want from a numeric system for use in games.

Now, if only there was some way I could pitch my concept to the good fellows at MM.....

Shadowriver
05-13-2010, 10:49 PM
Good idea with value type and conversion :) and wires would have different color for each value type.
PHP is language that i stick with the most, it has abstract value types (for example 0 means false and null and more then 0 means true, no need for conversion) this what i was basing on.

Speaking of division, how to solve dividing by 0 problem in wire algebraic system (let's call it that? Accepting a / 0 = 0 sounds as only reasonable solution

rtm223
05-13-2010, 11:00 PM
Only reason I'm thinking of conversion is to give that separation between "this is mathsey stuff" and "this is logicy stuff". I'm not entirely sure if that would be more intuitive to the masses though TBH.

For divide by zero, you could give an answer of zero, or you max out the value, but that might be confusing for some. IDK, generally I tend to go for simply not dividing by zero, ever :p

Personally, from a creation standpoint, I would take the divisor, pump that through a comparitor to check for when it is zero and hook that back into the system somehow to override the undesirable effect of divide by zero and give some rational default output. Then I'd design the rest of the system so a divide by zero never comes up ;)

Holguin86
05-13-2010, 11:01 PM
It makes me wonder how much of Steven Fry's voice we might be hearing in the not too distant future ...

And Arnaldo, why are you thanking everyone who posts in here? :D

Shadowriver
05-13-2010, 11:43 PM
They can keep old tutorials... but they will need more thats for sure :)

Arnald23
05-13-2010, 11:47 PM
It makes me wonder how much of Steven Fry's voice we might be hearing in the not too distant future ...

And Arnaldo, why are you thanking everyone who posts in here? :D

I like to thank the people how contributed to this poll and give there opinion, but I will probably stop doing that lol :p

Also You don't have to call me Arnaldo you can just call me Arnald :p

Holguin86
05-13-2010, 11:57 PM
Cool man, no probs. + Number output = Awesome, but maybe not for n00bs. It'd be great for a sensor to only allow one person to play a level, especially for all those one-player levels which are such a nuisance with more than one player.

Sehven
05-14-2010, 12:06 AM
Speaking of division, how to solve dividing by 0 problem in wire algebraic system

It should be set up so that if you try to divide by zero, your whole level gets sucked into a space-time vortex thing.

I have a pretty good head for all this logic stuff, but you guys have officially lost me at this point. It'll probably all make sense when I see it: I've just never bothered to learn all the technical language and I haven't done any programming since I was twelve and writing in basic.

Arnald23
05-14-2010, 03:04 AM
Hey Sehven you posted a lot of comment in this thread thanks 4 your cooperation thank you everyone :p

Arnald23
05-15-2010, 04:17 PM
Cool man, no probs. + Number output = Awesome, but maybe not for n00bs. It'd be great for a sensor to only allow one person to play a level, especially for all those one-player levels which are such a nuisance with more than one player.

that would be cool dude also I thick someone said that they are going to put a new mode for switches, we already have on/off, direction, one shot, ect. It would be cool be I need to find out what it does XD

coasterfreak1235
05-15-2010, 07:59 PM
I also put this idea on another post, but noticed it to fit here quite good: i'd love the Quantity option to the Player Proximity and Magnetic Key Switches. Being able to specify if this Player Prox becomes active with just 1 or 3 (or 2 or 4 if you will [I do]) would be wonderful and even more thermo-efficient. Also, possibly even more revolutionary would be it for the Magne Switches. Logic would become much more simple and thermo-friendly when you can tell this switch to want 10 magne Keys before becoming active. Of course, it CAN be done by other means, but in some cases, it already eats the Thermo. :D

Arnald23
05-15-2010, 08:29 PM
I also put this idea on another post, but noticed it to fit here quite good: i'd love the Quantity option to the player Proximity and Magnetic Key Switches. Being able to specify if this Player Prox becomes active with just 1 or 3 (or 2 or 4 if you will [I do]) would be wonderful and even more thermo-efficient. Also, possibly even more revolutionary would be it for the Magne Switches. Logic would become much more simple and thermo-friendly when you can tell this switch to want 10 magne Keys before becoming active. Of course, it CAN be done by other means, but in some cases, it already eats the Thermo. :D

That is true the Logic would become much more simple and thermo-friendly :cool:

Shadowriver
05-15-2010, 08:48 PM
@coasterfreak1235 we was thinking about something more advanced, but your idea is not bad at all too :)

Devonushka
05-15-2010, 10:44 PM
I'm sure whatever it is it won't be that hard for me... I mean they call it logic because it is very logical, so how hard can it be?

Shadowriver
05-15-2010, 11:24 PM
It's called logic because it it allows to do logic functions (IF a = 1 AND b=1 THEN out =1) , Logic/Digital circuitry is just a basis and the lowest possible "programing language" but not very productive (you won't do any number processing without big chanck of elements), this is why people come up with Microchips and Processing Units to use ready logic templates instead of making new ones everytime :)

Arnald23
05-16-2010, 01:02 AM
It's called logic because it it allows to do logic functions (IF a = 1 AND b=1 THEN out =1) , Logic/Digital circuitry is just a basis and the lowest possible "programing language" but not very productive (you won't do any number processing without big chanck of elements), this is why people come up with Microchips and Processing Units to use ready logic templates instead of making new ones everytime :)

he is right

Arnald23
05-20-2010, 12:26 AM
Guys I think MM answer a question about logic from the other thread! :love:

PS: This is a rumor I need to find out some more info.

Shadowriver
05-20-2010, 12:45 AM
Then post it :) This section got "speculation" in name so don't be worry to post rumors, this is sections to do so

Arnald23
05-20-2010, 01:01 AM
Then post it :) This section got "speculation" in name so don't be worry to post rumors, this is sections to do so

Dude I did found out something there is a question someone posted about logic and it got popular also ConfusedCartman said
Alright, that's it guys! We'll be selecting the questions soon, and as soon as we get answers back we'll get them up for everyone to see. Thanks again for your input!

so probably they pic it XD

Amigps
05-21-2010, 05:22 AM
Hello! Ok I'm 3/4 n00b so I apologize in advance for all the stupid stuff that I say. Ok. I have a feeling that the answer for how LBP2 logic is going to work is staring at us cracking up until it's blue in the face. I mean read what jack said, ¨Your mind is going to be blown by some of the stuff. Logic for beginners will be so simple, and I can't wait to see what some of you nerds do with some of the more technical stuff¨ It seems to me that for beginners It will be really easy after a couple of tutorials, but for the more advanced players, maybe some extra options? IDK but that's first thing that comes into my mind. If I were designing it, I would want to not change it so much so that creators from the original LBP could really easily understand, but at the same time would try to simplify it somehow so that beginners could create. I have no idea how I would go about doing that, but it's just an idea :) EDIT: I feel like I just restated the obvious......probably because I did O.o

terbas
12-04-2010, 04:25 PM
The new logic is waaaaaaaaaaay better than that of LBP1, which was simply robust and contributed to the overheat. First of all, it is practical. Create multiple logics on a chip, save the chip, name it and use it as many times as you like. Previously, the physic based logics had to occupy some space, now the chips offer the great advantage of not occupying game space in contradiction with the previous logic that was based on pistons, winches and other unpractical solutions. An and switch is just a switch now, not two pistons placed near to eachother that are connected to a light bulb or some other output. What I want to say to those who claim that it is fun to create logic from the scratch is "Come, on, if it is robust stuff you like, keep up with LBP 1 and its impractical solutions, LBP 2 is all about practicality, time management and less overheat...."

Kitkasumass
12-04-2010, 05:06 PM
The great thing about these microchips that I like is that not only can logic go into one, but other things too. A microchip can have movers, rotators, emitters, magnetic keys and switches, so anything you want to put on an object can sometimes justg be tucked into your microchip. It depends on the situation though.

Stoicrow
12-05-2010, 02:21 PM
Personally, from just looking at the logic... I have no idea how it works.

TiKiTaKa
01-15-2011, 09:47 AM
Im new to LBP whats logic? XD