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Deftmute
06-22-2010, 08:34 PM
With all these new tools, i can't help but visualize all the ways i could improve on this series.

First of all, being able to actually link the levels directly will help a lot in letting players know that it is one interconnected series.
After defeating Robot Masters the players will be returned to the main hub level. (which should hopefully be more interactive.)
Also, unlocking Dr. Whiney's Castle would open a door directly from the hub.

The Protagonist

I hope to be able to create a custom sackbot protagonist.
Most likely a Robot Suit that you jump in and drive.
The Robot Suit will have a standard shooting attack.

One thing i would like to know, though,
Can an emmiter be attached to a sackbot?
if so, what kid of limitations have you encountered?
The reason i ask is, i want to have different sackbots with different weapons,
but using creatinators might be cumbersome.
unless of course i can have the sackbot emit the proper creatinator momentarily on top of itself.
(I think someone mentioned something like this for a system for weapon cycling.)

Anyways whatever projectile will have the same kill switch as the the others. (a magnetic key)
Each will share the same color so that they are all lethal to enemies.
One thing i'm wondering though,
If i have a fire projectile with the "fire" label will it still activate keys of that color that don't require a label?
i guess its not vital, but it would make things easier on me.

Example:
Defeating Thorn Man will give you the Thorn Man power sticker.
Use this sticker at spawn points to gain access to the Thorn Man sackbot suit.
Once equipped with the suit, the player can cycle between a Thorn Gun and the Grapple.
Other suits would have their own weapons and/or innate properties.

These suits will give access to new areas in the hub as well as in the other levels.
anyways this post is getting pretty long.
Let me know what you guys think or if you have any ideas or suggestions.
...or info that might support or hinder by project.
i will probably expand on this thread later...
i have a lot of ideas.

awesome, this should turn out to be an even bigger success than the original :P

Deftmute
10-10-2010, 09:55 PM
i built it in lbp1, but i have a working prototype for the power up station, with the ability to cycle through available power ups. The stations themselves are attached to a power board that will be at the beginning of each stage that unlocks the powers for all the stations throughout the level. I can only imagine that i will be able to make this better with lbp2 tech, i just wanted to see if i could do it lbp1 because anything i can do there i should be able to replicate.

hopefully i will get some early access to some of this tech (hint hint nudge nudge) and will be able to do some advanced testing and development. we'll have to see.

Skalio-
10-13-2010, 10:38 PM
the easiest way to do this would be to emit creatinators next to the sackbot for a split second, the same way that many people have used for weapon cycles, but i find creatinators ugly and they can devastate the looks of your protagonist i have never tried firing projectiles directly out of an emitter on a sackbot, so i will have a go and get back to you on that as soon as i know (im gonna test it out now)

zynax555
10-13-2010, 10:47 PM
I'm glad your planning on doing this. I absolutely love your Mega City series; all the levels have such interesting and challenging gameplay that you don't see often in lbp. I really like the idea of having a hub world in which you can use your new power ups to get to different places. I have very high hopes for this project; it sounds awesome!

Skalio-
10-13-2010, 10:54 PM
ok so far ive managed to make a sackbot that fires plasma electricity and fire on a cycle (pressing triangle to cycle through) although atm my sackbot has to be moving either left or right in order to fire (otherwise the projectile could only be fired in one direction, maybe a clever person like rtm223 could solve this)

it was pretty easy to do this so far, and completely without the use of any creartinators that would make the sackbot ugly :)

EDIT: Also you cant aim, the projectiles just fly out in one direction

Deftmute
10-15-2010, 03:09 AM
ah, for that i was thinking about rigging up a thin holographic gun (visible) attached by a bolt to a holographic follower (not visible) set to follow the sackbot extremely closely, maybe then having the controlinator also aiming the bolted gun. but then i dont know if i'd be able to have any layer switching.

i think i'm gonna be in the beta... soon... we'll see.

Skalio-
10-16-2010, 12:41 AM
ah yeah this did occur to me too if you want ill give it a quick test for you as latency through transmitter/reciever controllinator setups can mess about with stuff like this which ideally needs to be fast paced

Deftmute
10-16-2010, 03:48 PM
Ive now had a couple hours to mess around a bit. I even managed to learn a few things.

Sackbots cannot use the grapplenator :(
I did build a holo-follow gun rig and it worked pretty well, but i havent decided whether or not to use it or just a right/left kinda setup.
The right/left would be more in line with the source material.
Also ran in to a bit of frustration trying to rig a game camera to the sackbot, but a movie camera seems to work just fine.

ballisticola
10-16-2010, 05:12 PM
What I think we will see is many people using the right stick to control a crosshair. And you can have fixed ranges for different weapons. Then you can aim at what you want...without having to wear a silly hat. You could even have auto aim.

And of course many won't even use the SackBots, give it a couple of months and there will be logic for movers available, so you can have completely customisable characters. Meaning you can actually have a proper weapon in your hands.

Deftmute
10-16-2010, 05:32 PM
What I think we will see is many people using the right stick to control a crosshair. And you can have fixed ranges for different weapons. Then you can aim at what you want...without having to wear a silly hat. You could even have auto aim.

I was thinking about this. Instead of using the right stick to aim the holo-folo (i'm coining that right now, btw.) gun rig, i could attach a follow rotator or "look at" rotator... cant remember what its called, and have it auto aim at the nearest enemy, or have a holo-reticle like you mentioned. Of course, with all of the various sackbots i plan on using, i'm sure that more than one of these methods will be used in the long run.

Right now i'm still trying to wrap my head around even basic logic. Specifically trying to recreate a bit of logic i used in lbp1 to prevent the player from using a certain function (ie, double jump) until some reset requirement was met. (landing on the ground, passage of time, etc.)

Deftmute
10-17-2010, 01:48 PM
I hate to double post but i have results from my testing last night.
I have a sackbot with left/right blasters using square/circle. if you hold the button for 2 seconds it shoots out a large blast.
It works pretty awesomely.
Also managed a double jump system, as well as lateral dash jumping.
Also made projectiles that fire up for a moment before homing in on the nearest target.
working on switching bots and spawn points next.
Actually if anyone from the EU already has this bit figured out, i'd love to hear how you did it.

Edit: Alright so i had to start over after importing my lbp1 profile.
however, now i have three suits done.

the standard Mega Suit with chargeable Mega Buster. (now rigged to only use the square button and the direction you move to fire)

the Smog Suit with slow movement and lowered gravity as well as target seeking bombs. (limited to 4 shots in rapid succession before a 3 second cool down kicks in)

the Neon Suit with fast movement and left/right dash attacks (can be done in air, limited to 2 right and 2 left before cool down.)

All three suits have health bars and are effected by enemy attacks... and can be healed by picking up health.
The two special suits have limited ammo that can be refilled by picking up items.

Deftmute
10-20-2010, 03:31 PM
Okay so I'm now triple posting... please dont kill me.
I do have substantial updates.
I actually have a demo level posted!

Level consists of:

Sticker chamber to unlock Roguebot Suits.
Upgrade station where you can switch between unlocked suits.
Practice area with enemy drones for your destroyment pleasure.

Please be aware that i dont have a respawn system in place yet.
If you die to the drones you will have to restart the level.
Enemies randomly drop Health and Ammo recharges.
Only the Mega Suit (Dark Blue & Light Blue, ie the one you start with) has infinite ammo.
Health and ammo can be restored by changing or reequipping a Suit.

Rundown of Suits:

All suits use x to jump like normal and use square to use their weapons, most require you to be moving one direction or the other to fire.

Details for the Mega Suit, Neon Suit, and Smog Suit are in the previous post.

Thorn Suit - Creates a shield protecting both side of the sackbot and dealing damage on impact.

Deep Suit - Launches water bubbles in an arc. Up to 4 shots in rapid succession.

Forge Suit - Launches projectiles that emit damaging shrapnel. Up to 4 shots in rapid succession.

Sledge Suit - Slightly larger than other sackbots and equipped with grabbinator. Emits blocks that it can throw. Only a couple blocks can be emitted before a 6 sec recharge kicks in. Blocks stick around long enough to potentially be thrown multiple times.

Shard Suit - Launches projectiles that slide along surfaces and are not destroyed on impact. Single shot with brief cool down.

Volt Suit - Emits lightning bolts at short range. Up to 4 shots in rapid succession. Quick cool down. Emits through shields.


If anyone decides to go check this out, i'd like to hear your opinions.

Skalio-
10-20-2010, 10:58 PM
Dude sounds awesome whats the level called?

Deftmute
10-20-2010, 11:11 PM
Hey thanks! The level is called "Mega City Remix demo".

Deftmute
10-22-2010, 12:52 PM
well. so far it seems that everyone hates the level... out of 4 plays 3 people have given thumbs down... and the other person is on my friends list.
anyone care to go try it out and tell me why you think its not being received well?
an outside perspective would be really helpful.

Skalio-
10-22-2010, 02:40 PM
ill test it as soon as im on im excited already :)

Deftmute
10-23-2010, 01:33 PM
things seem to be turning around a bit.
posted a new version that is getting better response.
maybe due to some

MAJOR UPDATES:

All Sackbot Suits (except for the standard suit) now have special abilities!

Neon Man - Neon Jump - vertical dash
Smog Man - Smog Glider - personal gravity nullifier
Thorn Man - Thorn Vine - kinda like a web swing ;)
Deep Man - Deep Climber - wall walking
Forge Man - fireproof... i dont have a special name for it lol
Sledge Man - grabinators... again no special name
Shard Man - Shard Dash - runs very fast
Volt Man - Volt Battery - can be used to charge electrical devices

ALSO:

Spawn points work!
Checkpoint reset! (like a 1up)

Boss Level!
Test your skills against Thorn Man!
Can you discover his weakness?
Can you beat him without it?

now working on Dynamic Park, Thorn Man's HQ.

Skalio-
10-23-2010, 03:54 PM
yeah very good thelevel itself didnt really push me to use the powerups and the lack of checkpoints meant i just hung about the beginning bit to check out all the suits, but it was very well made made and im sure when you implement these into a proper level it will be wicked. i gave it a :)

Deftmute
10-23-2010, 04:06 PM
Yeah, i knew the system for the checkpoints was gonna be seriously complex so i wanted to make sure i had it all figured out before trying to build a serious level.
So the demo is mostly just a small playground for testing the various bots.
But now there is also the boss level if you want to test them in a serious fight.

Dynamic Park will be the first actual attempt at a full level. There are quite of few other concepts i'll be putting to the test there.
Also itll be interesting coming up with challenges that require specific suits.

Deftmute
10-29-2010, 06:56 AM
Major Update:

Just finished working out the kinks in a new system that does away with the changing stations and allows changing sackbots on the fly.
Also keeps track of ammo for each suit.
Improved charging mechanic for the Mega Buster.

Dynamic Park nearly finished!
Complete with new systems.

Skalio-
10-29-2010, 04:14 PM
kl hopefully ill get to play it before the beta ends!! :O

Deftmute
10-29-2010, 04:19 PM
This is all just planning for the REAL project ;)

Deftmute
11-02-2010, 03:42 PM
Dynamic Park is published now.
Its not everything i hoped it would be but its also the beta too so y'know whatever.

Linque
11-03-2010, 10:39 PM
I'll try this out in the near future. Hang in there. :)

Deftmute
11-09-2010, 04:02 PM
http://beta.lbp.me/v/7trt

Linque
11-14-2010, 03:30 PM
Tested out the level, good stuff. The weapon designs are pretty cool, but before you had the thorn grapple thing which was awesome. Why did you take it away? I'd be really interested in working together helping out each other's creations. Even more interested I'd be to get you join working on the Mega Sackbot project, but you probably want to do Mega City yourself, which is very much understandable. ;)

Anyways, I have some improvement suggestions / problem fixes for your project. These are just my ideas though, so I don't mind if you think some of them are not good:

1) Charging up the mega buster is somehow a bit unresponsive / hard to figure out. Sometimes it shoots the charged shot, sometimes it doesn't. It's also hard to know when the weapon is fully charged up, fully charged should have some clearly different animation to the charging up animation.
2) I think it's possible to do weapon swapping smoother. I'm going to eventually try to make different colored Sackbots for different weapons myself. If you outsource all weapon systems, camera systems and health bars on holograms outside the Sackbot, you can swap the Sackbot on the fly without the kind of flickering the current system has. I think. And hope.
3) The controls could use tightening up. The built in movement system in LBP2 is in my opinion too unresponsive for a shooter. Jump height is too small too to make proper use of jumping and shooting.If you want I can send you my movement system and you can use it to tweak your own physics. Jumping requires hologram objects on all surfaces that you want to be able to jump from, but that's not as big of a task as it might sound like.
4) You have kind of a bug, in that when you hold down square and change directions, it's going to fire a shot each time, even though you never release square. Can be solved simply by routing the square signal through a pulser (0-1 counter with output -> reset connection).

FreeAim
11-14-2010, 03:48 PM
I would play this, if I had lbp 2 beta. It sounds great!

Deftmute
11-18-2010, 03:46 PM
I already use the folo-gram for the sackbot HUD.
It controls the sackbot spawning and keeps track of health/ammo via wireless signals from the sackbots.
i may have programmed a .01 delay in there. but i think i removed it when i moved the suit changer from the checkpoint to the HUD.
I do have another sound that plays when the Mega Buster is fully charged but youre right its not noticeable enough.
a pulser on the Buster is a good idea and so simple. i kinda feel stupid now. i use them almost everywhere else lol.
it would be neat if you could attach an LED to the circuit board itself. then i could have light come out of the sackbot.
thorn suit should still have the grapple. i must have broken it.

I would be very interested in trading ideas/tech, but i do kinda want to maintain my own project.
I think our takes on the series will be unique even if the underlying systems are very similar.

Skalio-
11-18-2010, 04:31 PM
I think as an alternative to lights on the circuitboard you can make another follower the size of a sackboy head, just smaller than the head itslef keep brightrtness on full and youll get a glowing aura round the bots helmet? alhough i agree we should be able to set sackbot glowing somehow whether its by lights or by a setting on the sackbots chip

Deftmute
11-20-2010, 05:17 PM
I just completely redesigned the ammo/health tracking system. now allows for more flexibility. (ie small/large power ups and a new system for variable damage)
it hasnt been published yet because i am still putting in the final touches of the conversion and doing some internal testing, but it should be up soon.
I also plan to address some of the other issues during the redesign as well.
I'll let you guys now when ive made more progress.

Skalio-
11-20-2010, 05:32 PM
cool, also are you planing on fixing the grapple? it worked for me but it wasnt at all consistent so id hope to see that get fixed :)

Deftmute
11-20-2010, 06:24 PM
what kind of issues have you been having with the grapple exactly?
I'll fix it if i can but it would help to have a clearer idea of what i am looking for.
In my testing it seems to work ok, unless the thing you attach to is at the max height.
in that case sometimes it kinda flings a bit too much.
is that what youre talking about or something else?

Skalio-
11-20-2010, 06:31 PM
well firstly i couldnt get it to work consistently, unless there are only some materials you could grab? in which case all you need to do is make it clearer what is grabbable, but whatever. also i couldnt swing about properly, as in i was never able to get off the ground when i did grapple something so the ability was only useful in a couple of circumstances in the showcase level (and i know its just a showcase so i understand things arent perfect)

nitewalker11
11-20-2010, 06:38 PM
If only I had the beta...
:(

Linque
11-21-2010, 06:37 PM
About sharing tech, I think I'm going to put creating in LBP2 on hold until release, as I'm pretty much at a point where I would like to start fine tuning and creating content. I'm going to document the logic I have in place and go on a hiatus. I'll send you any notes that I think might be of use to you once I've got everything written down.