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Burrich
07-30-2008, 04:37 AM
Hey. New preview on IGN about building and the pop-it system.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/895/895019p1.html

Enjoy :D:).

Noonian
07-30-2008, 05:04 AM
Good find...thx man!

"These include all the raw elements specifically cardboard, metal, sponge, stone, wood, glass, rubber and the immovable and gravity-free dark matter. "

"create fairly complex cause and effect relationships between switches, inanimate structures and even spatially placed sensors. These can be visible or invisible, have varied fields of effect and can trigger blocks to swing, shift, dissolve, drop, catch on fire, electrify and more."

This is full of awesome...dissolvable material that can be triggered and gravity free dark matter...:eek:

I'm also glad you can hide the chips and sensors...otherwise people could just walk into your level and not be surprised about anything...:)

Harrisment
07-30-2008, 05:54 AM
Ah ha! This interview answered one of my questions from our other thread. I'll fix this post with qoutes when I get home ( on my iPhone), but we have a total of 11 layers of depth (3 playable, 7 decorative, and 1 for hover mode) this is simply amazing!

ConfusedCartman
07-30-2008, 06:05 AM
Sweet, good preview. Thanks for pointing it out.

Linque
07-30-2008, 06:52 AM
Ah ha! This interview answered one of my questions from our other thread. I'll fix this post with qoutes when I get home ( on my iPhone), but we have a total of 11 layers of depth (3 playable, 7 decorative, and 1 for hover mode) this is simply amazing!

I read it as 3 + 4 + 1 for a total of 8.
(the preview said that the *eighth* layer is reserved for hover mode)

Harrisment
07-30-2008, 09:09 AM
Being a 2.5D platformer at heart, 'planes' are essential to understanding early on. Three are interactive, while seven are available in total to decorate your world. An eighth is reserved for Hover Mode. Once you're ready to start placing objects into the environment, you need to decide how wide the building blocks are going to be, and on which plane you're going to place it. Planes and object width can be adjusted with the shoulder buttons. The overall impact on your levels is obvious; create barriers or small caves, characters can pass behind or around objects too.

Yup, on the second readthrough, it pretty clearly means 8 planes (3 playable, 4 decorative (think of those 4 as a "skybox" for those familiar with FPS map editors), and 1 plane for hover mode)

With this information, I think we might be able to make our own backgrounds, simply by using one of the decorative planes to create a "canvas" that will cover a lot of the viewable area of the current background, and then we can either build a background with other shapes on the other planes, or use stickers to paste a new background on.

Will be interesting to see what people do with these added layers of depth.

marmiteman
07-30-2008, 09:52 AM
"create fairly complex cause and effect relationships between switches, inanimate structures and even spatially placed sensors. These can be visible or invisible, have varied fields of effect and can trigger blocks to swing, shift, dissolve, drop, catch on fire, electrify and more."

This answers my question from my thread. Woo! looks like you can make something set alight when a player walks past a trigger. Ah the traps I could set ...

bbroman
07-30-2008, 11:14 AM
Good find. Thx for posting.

Maltay
07-30-2008, 12:46 PM
Sorry I don't understand the skybox/ extra layers thing.. can somebody explain in lamens?

Burrich
07-30-2008, 07:22 PM
Sorry I don't understand the skybox/ extra layers thing.. can somebody explain in lamens?

Here ya go, just imagine your looking down on the level (birds-eye view).

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z243/pillaysteven/LBP_create.jpg

Note: the gaps between the layers won't be in the game, they're just to make it more clear.

Linque
07-30-2008, 08:38 PM
I'm not sure that the decorative layers are in between the playable layers. It might be one in front of the playable, and three behind them with the playable layers being right next to each other.

We'll have to wait and see.

Burrich
07-30-2008, 08:54 PM
I'm not sure that the decorative layers are in between the playable layers. It might be one in front of the playable, and three behind them with the playable layers being right next to each other.

We'll have to wait and see.

Oh... actually yeah that may make more sense.

EDIT: Wait no it doesn't. The way I see it, each object in the game can be a 1/3, 2/3 or fully fill the depth of the level (the playable sections). If you have something in the 1/3 that is furthest back you need to be able to decorate it using the decorative section that is 2nd from the back. The same goes for the decorative level in front of the middle playable section and the foremost playable section. Then you need one more for the overall background of the level. That's 4.

dorien
07-30-2008, 09:50 PM
Here ya go, just imagine your looking down on the level (birds-eye view).

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z243/pillaysteven/LBP_create.jpg

Note: the gaps between the layers won't be in the game, they're just to make it more clear.

This is completely right and a good diagram to explain. I have watched a vid months back where someone from MM is demonstrating some create stuff and rather than having a full 1/3 thickness he showed how you can turn it into a flat piece that could go in-between the layers exactly like pillaysteven has shown it. I'm trying to find the vid but i think it was on Gametrailers.com

Jack
07-30-2008, 10:44 PM
D...d...da...DARK MATTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bbroman
07-30-2008, 10:47 PM
D...d...da...DARK MATTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I miss the reference.

Burrich
07-30-2008, 10:48 PM
This is completely right and a good diagram to explain. I have watched a vid months back where someone from MM is demonstrating some create stuff and rather than having a full 1/3 thickness he showed how you can turn it into a flat piece that could go in-between the layers exactly like pillaysteven has shown it. I'm trying to find the vid but i think it was on Gametrailers.com

You see it for about a second in this vid:

GameSpot Video: LittleBigPlanet E3 2008 Stage Show Demo

At around 4:30.

You see him going from flat to 1/3. I'm pretty sure I saw the video you're talkin about though I can't find it anywhere.

EDIT: Oh and BTW if you download that vid, there's a lot more in it than just what is viewable online. The online vid starts like halfway through it. It shows the Music machine!!!

1000101
07-31-2008, 03:01 PM
I was looking closely at this stage demo and I noticed something interesting about the create a level "thermometer" that I thought I'd bring to light. Anyone else notice that for every new material that gets put into the level, it takes up a whole chunk of the 28 available chunks in the blank level?

... yes, I counted the spaces in the thermometer.

For those already planning whole levels, this is one thing you're gonna want to take into consideration, especially if your level is gonna be HUGE.
For example, I'm planning a level that starts in a forrest and leads into a city. rather that using a bunch of wood for trees, stone for buildings and metal for cars, it may be 'cheaper' to build the buidings with wood and sticker them with an in-game stone-ish pattern/sticker.

1 other thing... the Mario style rockets/bobombs were AWESOME! Just another step toward a Mario clone that I'm sure many users will be building, and I will look forward to playing for the nostalgia.

Linque
07-31-2008, 03:45 PM
It's still work in progress. The thermometer might have been rigged so you see it go up when they demonstrate it. I'm 100% sure you can put in more stuff than the meter in that demo implies.

You've seen some of the levels they've shown. There's no way you could make them with the thermometer so restrictive.

ryryryan
07-31-2008, 04:01 PM
It's still work in progress. The thermometer might have been rigged so you see it go up when they demonstrate it. I'm 100% sure you can put in more stuff than the meter in that demo implies.

You've seen some of the levels they've shown. There's no way you could make them with the thermometer so restrictive.

what he was saying i think though is that when you place that material - it goes up that much. and then the next time you place the same material it won't - or it will just go up slower.

But also take into account we don't know how big the crater is that that level was using. it could of been a small one.

bbroman
08-01-2008, 12:11 AM
Good point on the crater size. Although I think the crater is assigned after the level is created. I'd hate to go in with a mini-game, have a stroke of genius and want a full level, and end up having to exit and choose a bigger crater.

1000101
08-01-2008, 04:43 AM
what he was saying i think though is that when you place that material - it goes up that much. and then the next time you place the same material it won't - or it will just go up slower.

Right. I don't think it'll move again after you initially drop that material. For each material, the game needs to load the physics for that material. That's what I'm thinking the big jump is. You load 20 different materials into a level, the game has to load 20 different physics properties/profiles + whatever else you throw at it. I'm not sure I'd use much more than 10 different materials in a single level, now that I think about it.

dorien
08-01-2008, 08:29 AM
Good point on the crater size. Although I think the crater is assigned after the level is created. I'd hate to go in with a mini-game, have a stroke of genius and want a full level, and end up having to exit and choose a bigger crater.

This is a great point that i never thought of. I really do hope you can change the size of the moon crater whilst in a game to a bigger one if, as you say you "Have a stroke of genius"

Linque
08-01-2008, 10:28 AM
Right. I don't think it'll move again after you initially drop that material. For each material, the game needs to load the physics for that material. That's what I'm thinking the big jump is. You load 20 different materials into a level, the game has to load 20 different physics properties/profiles + whatever else you throw at it. I'm not sure I'd use much more than 10 different materials in a single level, now that I think about it.

Also, we'll have to see if the game has to load the whole level at once. For example in Mega Man games, if you drop down one 'level', the game stops for a moment and scrolls down, a transition of sorts. This kind of things could make it possible to create bigger levels if you're able to split it into certain sections.

Also, remember that MM is able and most definitely will upgrade and update the game over time, so some restrictions might be loosened later on.

Jack
08-04-2008, 12:29 AM
I miss the reference.

I wasn't referring to anything lol.

bbroman
08-04-2008, 05:06 PM
I wasn't referring to anything lol.
Fooled me. I thought it was a pop culture reference. Eh, whatever.

Whalio Cappuccino
09-18-2008, 12:35 AM
I seriously don't get the layer thing, someone care to help clarify? Btw, the diagram you drew confused me even more, I think I understand but I want to be 100%. So if anyone can help that would be great.

TheNextHendrix
09-18-2008, 02:17 AM
Good find, it's an awesome preview.

Mark D. Stroyer
09-18-2008, 02:26 AM
Very detailed, there. Nice find.

Edit: I just looked, and it's from the end of July, so some of the niggles there at the end are almost certain to be cleared up during polishing, beta, etc.

BerkleyJ
09-18-2008, 02:52 AM
Not as nice looking as the other one but more graphical hopefully it helps some people understand. kinda sloppy I was in hurry :P

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9960/ffftbtyjkozk6.jpg

Whalio Cappuccino
09-18-2008, 03:20 AM
Not as nice looking as the other one but more graphical hopefully it helps some people understand. kinda sloppy I was in hurry :P

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9960/ffftbtyjkozk6.jpg

Can I say I love you? LOL. Helped alot dude, so basically when you move up and down with your sackboy, your basically switching layers right? RIGHT!? Oh god I hope I got it down...

Mark D. Stroyer
09-18-2008, 03:26 AM
Right. (And I reference a gameplay trailer where one of the people is guiding the players through playing the game.) Up/down on the analog = background or foreground layers. I think there's some sort of mechanic as well where if you jump up and one platform is on a different level, you'll automatically land on that one.

mrbobbyboy
09-18-2008, 10:16 AM
Awesome find, superb article. A nice clear understanding of the playing/create layers. That's guys for the mock-ups - very useful. This has FIRED my creativity for getting into LBP!!!

TerrenceJohan
09-18-2008, 12:39 PM
Nice little preview there. Good diagram as well, that clearly explains the depth.