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Bloo_boy
12-27-2010, 05:43 PM
I just thought about this but, well its just at the top of my head, Im starting to notice if the Level showcase is full of just platformers, and If a level doesnt have mechanical platfroming (like these days) people wont play it.

ill say its not a bad thing, but if you want a personal opinion from me, im growing pretty anoyed of it. I posted like half of all my levels in the showcase thread and well there barely people who can give me critics, and since I focus more on drawing, art etc, how Will I ever improver if people dont ATLEAST tell me whats wrong or what they didnt like?


I actually decided not to post levels there anymore, its not level showcase anymore, instead now its--> Showcase for Platforming levels and other stuff (Survivals etc).

You barely see any art related levels anymore, or any scenery based levels or a level that says "My Art Creations"
(No wonder I havent seen some creators around) but I guess they probably think the same way or maybe found another forum or place where they atleast appreciate art (A little more).

Idk maybe organizing levels by types? maybe? maybe it could be better for platformers to help platformers and artist to help artist and so on so on? I was thinking of posting some of my levels on the Art Work and creativity threads, can i?



If not then...well idk but its really getting to me how my levels were just ignore when I tried so hard on them, kinda makes me wanna give up creating, but if I had someone to critic my work then maybe I could learn and create more, but whats the point in creating if no one will do so?


And im not the only one, before you start saying stuff, look closely at the Community Spotlight, "Look" at what most of those levels focus on. The only place I see where people appreciate art more is on PSP levels. And if you look closely, theres dozens of art creators on lbpc who are probably shy and wont publish there work here, and probably for the same reasons Im writing. Idk really but its getting realy sad for some reason...


idk if this is possible but well, never mind people just ignore me around here anyways...=/
its not like ill make a difference on anything XD


Edit: Organizing I understand wont be possible, but why cant we have a sub thread maybe in art work and creativity where we can post our art related stuff, even if all your doing is running and looking at art in a level? and why not?


Edit..just a thought why not...

A) Platformers
B) Art Related
C) RPG
D) Music
E) Racing
F) Tutorials
G) Community Projects (Like lbpc the game etc)

And other sub forums would be other genres for levels, like fighting for example, shooters, stuff like that. Cause its hard to post a good rpg level or a Art related level in a place where its only full of one genre, and just because 1 genre is famous and all over the place, doesnt mean the other genres shouldnt have any attention.


And I mean think about this, dont you find it better for creators if there in there own nature? Like a rpg creator who post his levels in a rpg thread and gets the critic "He needs" from other rpg creators just like him (same thing with art and drawings), But imagine if a Platformer creator is reviewing a Art related level...all hes gonna say is "the platforming isnt that good, maybe add some jumps and challenges".


Stuff like this isnt helpful and most imporatnly NOT constructive, how do you expect more creator like Lockstich to appear if there not getting any attention in the first place?




^I agree^. Also I think once some creators start noticing the latest trends on what category is the most popular, it may stop the experimental "lets try this out for fun" approach to creating levels and it may lead to creators neglecting or pushing aside a lot of ideas. Imagine the morale of somebody who wants to try building lets say.. a "Racing" level.. would that person really wanna spend a ton of effort working on a level when in the end will only end up having to be placed into the "quite corner" of the level showcase??.. I don't think so, The next thing before we know it, certain types of levels will start to die out and the Level showcase will end up being about "What's Hot and What's Not" I respectfully vote against adding level categories..

Instead how about something like a little optional "Icon Tag" type thing when u post ur level??, that way all the levels can still stay all together and people can choose whether or not to show their levels as fitting a certain category.

Exactly what your saying is what this idea is about...sorry to say it like this, but people like you is the reason I came up with this idea, because most likely you will just ignore everything else and just focus on something, but the way you called Racing levels "Quiet Corner" well wow...but um your in LBPC, some people will be offended by that you know?...oh so...are you calling PSP levels quiet corner? and Ignored?...no offense but you sound really mean...

But alas, the reason you stated your against it shows that you just dont like other levels and rather focus on whatever is famous etc and thats not the way it should be around here...especially not in this site, when it focuses on "Little Big Planet" not "A level you like". please think before being against an idea thats friendly and shows no harm to anyone...

RockSauron
12-27-2010, 05:46 PM
So basically, you're saying we should split the Level Showcase into a separate showcase for various genres? ... That may work.

I don't think we should bother for LBP1 though since we only have 20 days (!) till LBP2... but when LBP2 comes out, I think we should separate the Level Showcase into different genres as well. Yay. :kz:

Bloo_boy
12-27-2010, 05:49 PM
So basically, you're saying we should split the Level Showcase into a separate showcase for various genres? ... That may work.

I don't think we should bother for LBP1 though since we only have 20 days (!) till LBP2... but when LBP2 comes out, I think we should separate the Level Showcase into different genres as well. Yay. :kz:


No not only for lbp 1, but yeah also for lbp 2 and psp levels also, cause I bet for the first 2 months of LBP 2 release, everything is gonna full of platformers (Community Levels, LBPC Showcase etc) and all the other levels will most likely just be ignore like its already happening.

Plasmavore
12-27-2010, 05:49 PM
I really like this idea! Although I agree with Rock, it will be much easier to implement once LBP2 is released, that way there can be subforums for RPG, races, etc :)

javi haguse
12-27-2010, 06:03 PM
I can completely relate to your frustration... I guess you can call me a visual guy as well.
When I first started creating levels, all I wanted to focus on was on aesthetics. Later I learned that you kinda have to compromise a little. People are playing your levels, you know! I'm not saying that you should start making platforming levels, but if you see that ppl like to jump here and there, why not add some jumps to your level. If you want more plays, it will be easier by making what people like. I still keep my levels visually inclined, but I think I've found the right balance for me. Hope you do too.

As far as dividing the level showcase, I don't think there's a need to. I think no matter what kind of level you have, if your level is awesome, it will be spotlighted.

Bloo_boy
12-27-2010, 06:12 PM
I really like this idea! Although I agree with Rock, it will be much easier to implement once LBP2 is released, that way there can be subforums for RPG, races, etc :)

Yeah, definatly, it would be better for alot of people, my levels have been ignore for these reasons but not just mine, I noticed some music levels (That were very good, i think it was from coldplay i dont remember the name)
And suprisingly it didnt get the attention it deserved, it just faded away, but that wouldnt have happened if there was a sub thread for music levels.


Same thing goes for some survivals out there, and even my work was just ignored just cause it wasnt a good platformer
:(.

But im not directing this at the spotlight team, I understand everything you guys do and Im not judging that, this is basicly for people to easily find what they like and help each other better. Besides wouldnt it be easy if you organized the levels? that way you know directly where to find/look and you know what you want to spotlight. For example I read rocksauron is working on a Ar pee gee or something like that XD if there was a sub thread for rpg levels/creators wouldnt it be easier for rock to like find other rpg creators to help him out, and like give him contructive critic/feedback and so on, cause posting a rpg in a thread thats full of racing levels for example, it will most likely just be ignored by people (not spotlight team) "People".



Not to mention the spotlight team itself would find it easier for them to search the levels they want to spotlight instead of just going around to see what they can find and maybe miss a level or two for example. It sound easier just thinking about it, and im sure it couldl make alot of people out there happy like myself cause I imagine myself getting some feedback from an Artist like jump_button or something and that really makes me wanna keep creating and so on.

So idk, i guess it still does sound hard to organize all those levels...[/COLOR]

javi haguse
12-27-2010, 06:23 PM
Oh, I thought that you meant more towards spotlights. In that case I guess it wouldn't hurt. But it would be kinda difficult to organize. Questions like:
How many categories?
Would you categorize your own level or someone in LBPC? if so, who?

Maybe Im being too complicated :D

piggabling
12-27-2010, 10:48 PM
I think it's a grand idea! Nothing screams organization like a few sub-forums!

midnight_heist
12-28-2010, 12:54 AM
I think the biggest problem with this would be the borderline levels that cover multiple genres.
Also if it was split up into categories, I would never visit/play shooters/racers, possibly resulting in less plays for levels.

Brixx101
12-29-2010, 02:01 AM
I think the biggest problem with this would be the borderline levels that cover multiple genres.
Also if it was split up into categories, I would never visit/play shooters/racers, possibly resulting in less plays for levels.

^I agree^. Also I think once some creators start noticing the latest trends on what category is the most popular, it may stop the experimental "lets try this out for fun" approach to creating levels and it may lead to creators neglecting or pushing aside a lot of ideas. Imagine the morale of somebody who wants to try building lets say.. a "Racing" level.. would that person really wanna spend a ton of effort working on a level when in the end will only end up having to be placed into the "quite corner" of the level showcase??.. I don't think so, The next thing before we know it, certain types of levels will start to die out and the Level showcase will end up being about "What's Hot and What's Not" I respectfully vote against adding level categories..

Instead how about something like a little optional "Icon Tag" type thing when u post ur level??, that way all the levels can still stay all together and people can choose whether or not to show their levels as fitting a certain category.

Bloo_boy
12-29-2010, 02:05 AM
I think the biggest problem with this would be the borderline levels that cover multiple genres.
Also if it was split up into categories, I would never visit/play shooters/racers, possibly resulting in less plays for levels.

Well true, but just like you dont like racers or shooters, some other people do, and maybe focus more on that genre rather than others.

And what Javi asked, well no one knows a level more than well...its original creator right? People can say things but no one knows a your level more than you who made it in the first place, I guess it would be logical that someone would post his levels where he sees "Fits", basicly what his levels focuses on. And I mean true, some people makes levels with multiple genres but its up to him to decide where it goes. The level could be a great platformer, but if he focues more on scenery and art then he decides to either publish on Art section or platforming section.


Its simple actually, and with the same rules Lbpc already has, I mean, someone who makes a level that is a racing level and posts it on tutorials section for example, hes obviously just doing it on purpose just to fool around see? But if his racing levels has a artistic touch...then he decides if it goes on Art section or racing section. Anything else would just be someone playing around with rules and just being silly, it kinda makes sense ^______^.

But idk, I just gave this idea idk how if lbpc will accept it or not, but either way I sure love the idea of it and other people do aswell, it would be pretty cool to see this not just LBP2 but LBP and PSP also.





^I agree^. Also I think once some creators start noticing the latest trends on what category is the most popular, it may stop the experimental "lets try this out for fun" approach to creating levels and it may lead to creators neglecting or pushing aside a lot of ideas. Imagine the morale of somebody who wants to try building lets say.. a "Racing" level.. would that person really wanna spend a ton of effort working on a level when in the end will only end up having to be placed into the "quite corner" of the level showcase??.. I don't think so, The next thing before we know it, certain types of levels will start to die out and the Level showcase will end up being about "What's Hot and What's Not" I respectfully vote against adding level categories..

Instead how about something like a little optional "Icon Tag" type thing when u post ur level??, that way all the levels can still stay all together and people can choose whether or not to show their levels as fitting a certain category.

Exactly what your saying is what this idea is about...sorry to say it like this, but people like you is the reason I came up with this idea, because most likely you will just ignore everything else and just focus on something, but the way you called Racing levels "Quiet Corner" well wow...but um your in LBPC, some people will be offended by that you know?...oh so...are you calling PSP levels quiet corner? and Ignored?...no offense but you sound really mean...

But alas, the reason you stated your against it shows that you just dont like other levels and rather focus on whatever is famous etc and thats not the way it should be around here...especially not in this site, when it focuses on "Little Big Planet" not "A level you like". please think before being agaisnt an idea thats friendly and shows no harm to anyone...


Sorry for putting that twice brix, I just really want people to see why I came up with this in the first place...sorry but it just shouldnt be that way, especially not in a site lbpc, ever since i got here I loved it but..thanks to the way the level showcase works and people like you...ive been having a hard time , And im not the only one that feels this way...

Brixx101
12-29-2010, 04:17 AM
Exactly what your saying is what this idea is about...sorry to say it like this, but people like you is the reason I came up with this idea, because most likely you will just ignore everything else and just focus on something, but the way you called Racing levels "Quiet Corner" well wow...but um your in LBPC, some people will be offended by that you know?...oh so...are you calling PSP levels quiet corner? and Ignored?...no offense but you sound really mean...

But alas, the reason you stated your against it shows that you just dont like other levels and rather focus on whatever is famous etc and thats not the way it should be around here...especially not in this site, when it focuses on "Little Big Planet" not "A level you like". please think before being agaisnt an idea thats friendly and shows no harm to anyone...


Oh dear, i'm sorry that my post came across as sounding a bit mean. The intention of my post was only to look at a "Possible outcome" of what MAY happen if we add categories. It wasn't so much my personal opinion on how I want things to work. The reason I voted against it is probably the same reason why CC brought the PSP area out more into the main forums.. to make things feel less separated (less "Sub-Forums").. and adding categories will do the exact opposite of that.

I think it's pretty clear that I only used "Racing" levels as just an example, i'm sorry u interpreted it as a type of ignorance. But I will be more clearer In the future and use terms such as "for example" or "eg:", and the thing about me saying "Quite Corner".. i'm pretty sure people will know that it's just a playful way to say it. And ur wrong about me "ignoring everything else and just focusing on something"

I'm quite saddened that u judged my my whole personality based on one post, many will know that i'm not a meanie. using a term such as "people like you" is quite shallow considering u don't know my personality to begin with. I really hope ur not categorizing people as well.. and I really wished that u would have PM'd me about this so we can sort things out in a good manner instead of having to make ur feelings about me public.

TO EVERYONE, i'm sorry I posted this in the open but I felt i had to clear the air of any misread Intentions. as I said, I respect the idea of categories, I just disagree with it.

EDIT: oh and here's a :), just so everyone knows that i'm not "really mean"

midnight_heist
12-29-2010, 04:57 AM
My thoughts as well Brix.
I was also using the categories and an example.
Shame how "constructive criticism" posts have to thank each other simply because they disagree with the OP.

@ bloo boy, you (sort of) say you don't like the majority ignoring certain levels, however won't splitting up the showcase into categories further segregate the community?

Personally I feel simply stating the genre in the level thread is enough. Perhaps adding an optional line to fill in would be helpful.

ConfusedCartman
12-29-2010, 06:36 AM
An interesting middle ground - and something we're investigating - is a sort of "tag" system, a la LBP2. Allow users to set tags on their levels (maybe we could provide default tags to choose from? I'll have to look into it) and expand from there. Because you don't have to restrict yourself to a single category, it might be a bit more flexible, while still allowing us to do some cool things in regards to supporting various genres.

It's still all hypothetical right now, but it's definitely something we're looking into.

Silverleon
12-29-2010, 07:43 AM
As the leader of the "Level Showcase Awareness" group, I second (third, fourth, w/e) this idea, this may actually help the current problem of lack of attention, more genres and distribution may add more attention to it, so I support this idea! :)

NinjaMicWZ
12-29-2010, 01:11 PM
I like what CC has responded with, because the first thing I thought about was things that don't fit a category, how many genre hybrids there are in platformers alone, and how much debate there is among forum gamers on what genre a game actually is.

You'd have a miscellaneous forum with 10x the amount of threads.

On the other subject though... I think in general that single serving, run-of-the-mill platformers are going to be the main draw here as always. People seem to think top-down is an excuse to not focus on visuals, and I feel like everything outside of the box for the first year will be treated like survival challenges. Single levels will be what they've always been but racers will need a 10 level circuit released simultaneously to be given the same weight etc etc

Really it's the formation of genre cliques that MM predicts, that I'm looking forward to. I think we're all going into new territory in knowing how identify quality across genre and types, and view them accordingly as standards are set.

Bloo_boy
12-29-2010, 01:53 PM
The thing is...we all know its always going to be one genre on top, like platforming right now for example. Everyone understands this, but this idea isnt exactly for 'Changing" that, just making different. Platforming in first days of LBP2 will still be the big thing around, but that doesnt mean people making racing levels and mini games should be ignored.

True they will still be ignore because some people will ignore them, but if someone for example focused on RPG making levels, and looks into a thread thats full of platformers...that person might not even post his level in the first place, and if he does theres a 70% chance it will be ignored, (By ignored I dont mean LBPC Spotlight Team) it will most likely just fade away in time. However if that person post his rpg in a thread, where its full of RPG makers and RPG levels, he/she feel more comfortable, theres a 30% chance his work wont be ignored, he/she will get feedback from RPG creators that will help him/her in there RPG making skills.

You feel more in your nature, with other creators like yourself, However, its not like a creator focuses on one thing forever, after all in LBP where all "Creators", in time we all want to try something, could be music or Movie making. Action levels. If you want to try to make Music levels...and you want to grow as a Music maker, where will you post your levels? In RPG thread? Or in A Music Thread where its full of Music Creators?


True there are many Multiple Genre levels out there, but wheter a level has 10 or 20 genres, its up to him to decide where it goes, its like I said, No one knows his level more than its own creator, You made the level, if someone says "This is a Platformer" you say "No, this is my Art Styled level".


Many people in forums debate what a game is, Like Castlevania...Zelda.....Zone of Enders......Assasings Creed...Some people say "This is an RPG" other say "No your crazy? this is Hack and Slash!" Others argue saying... "This focuses on platforming". but at the bottom line.

No one, no gamer or players, or person knows a game or a level more than its original creator. Many people say Assasing Creed is an RPG, while Ubisoft says its just
Action, Adventure with Free Roaming for example...now the thing is...


Who are you gonna believe? the players who debate, choosing what type the genre is?
or the "Creator" who made it, and knows that game/level like the back of his hand?

wolverine_2008
12-29-2010, 10:08 PM
So basically, we organize the level showcase forum by adding sub-forums where people can post their levels that fall into a category of some sort?

Questions:

If your level falls into more than one category (like mentioned before) can you post in both sub-forums?

Won't some plays be taken away from some 'level genres' if we do this (and some will gain more of course but that won't be fair for the other genres)?
example: Art levels, no gameplay whatsoever. Will people ignore those because it's not as 'fun' as racing, shooters, or platformers?

Other than that I LOVE the Idea, I was thinking about posting the same thing but I saw that you already posted one. :)

Silverleon
12-29-2010, 11:01 PM
So basically, we organize the level showcase forum by adding sub-forums where people can post their levels that fall into a category of some sort?

Questions:

If your level falls into more than one category (like mentioned before) can you post in both sub-forums?

Won't some plays be taken away from some 'level genres' if we do this (and some will gain more of course but that won't be fair for the other genres)?
example: Art levels, no gameplay whatsoever. Will people ignore those because it's not as 'fun' as racing, shooters, or platformers?

Other than that I LOVE the Idea, I was thinking about posting the same thing but I saw that you already posted one. :)

I believe he's trying to say that the "Level Showcase" ill be, each have a category, but each level post in those "Categories" will be in the "Full" showcase, showing all levels, like it is now. So if people wanted, they could search all levels, OR specific genres.

Bloo_boy
12-29-2010, 11:56 PM
So basically, we organize the level showcase forum by adding sub-forums where people can post their levels that fall into a category of some sort?

Questions:

If your level falls into more than one category (like mentioned before) can you post in both sub-forums?

Won't some plays be taken away from some 'level genres' if we do this (and some will gain more of course but that won't be fair for the other genres)?
example: Art levels, no gameplay whatsoever. Will people ignore those because it's not as 'fun' as racing, shooters, or platformers?

Other than that I LOVE the Idea, I was thinking about posting the same thing but I saw that you already posted one. :)


Well no because we cant double thread or anything etc XD right? so...even if a Level has multiple genres the creator decides where it goes, like I said, no one knows the level more than its own creator.

And well, not all Art levels lack gameplay wolverine =P, but just to clear that out for you, In LBP1 the thermo ruins us everytime, so its hard to make a level thats Artistc and Platformer at the same time, (And if you wanna know what I mean, check out my level Rockface City and Hollow Echo) you'll see its hard to combine those cause of the thermo and yeah, those 2 levels I said are short =(.

(though the thermo will most likely be bigger for LBP2)

Other than that true, some people will continue to ignore..but thats what Im trying to get at, I know this Idea will make a difference and people agree, I know it will bring good things but at the same time have its flaws. But what im trying to get at with this idea is why do we ignore genres (levels) when were all creators?

true some of us have a Focus when creating like Lockstich, he focuses on Platforming but dont you think that he 'As a Creator in LBP" wont want to try his hand/skills at something else? could be Racing, RPG and Art Collection etc. After all thats how we grow as creators, Look at Steve Big Guns, he makes great Art, Platforming, Fun Mini Games and Even Costumes and Music!!! thats what being a creator is all About and thats why Im a fan :p


I used to focus on Art but I knew, that as A creator like everyone I had to get out of my Comfort zone and grow, So i tried Platforming and I have plans for Music and Movies.

But in order to grow as a creator, making different genres, being versatile like Steve Big Guns, you have to have the Right feedback and the right help, thats why I came up with this, cause I know it will help better and make a difference :).



EDIT btw Wolverine love your sig ^____________^

RoharDragontamer
12-30-2010, 04:05 AM
I don't think splitting up the forums into sub forums will be very conducive to getting more plays for certain genres. As midnight_heist suggested, I think people will just completely ignore posts in certain sub forums, which would result in two things. One, less potential plays for the posted levels. Two, less potential for someone that normally isn't interested in a particular genre, having something catch their eye, and playing what turns out to be an enjoyable level.

I think midnight_heist hit it on the head when he suggested the way the level is presented in the forums (with screen shots, great description, etc.) plays more into the decision making process to try a level, then what the posted genre might be. In fact, the screen shots are the primary data that I use in deciding to try a level out. If the level doesn't look like someone spent time to make it look good, then I'm going to assume they didn't spend time making it fun to play. This might be short sighted, but life is short too.

RockSauron
02-05-2011, 02:06 PM
An interesting middle ground - and something we're investigating - is a sort of "tag" system, a la LBP2. Allow users to set tags on their levels (maybe we could provide default tags to choose from? I'll have to look into it) and expand from there. Because you don't have to restrict yourself to a single category, it might be a bit more flexible, while still allowing us to do some cool things in regards to supporting various genres.

It's still all hypothetical right now, but it's definitely something we're looking into.

I'm in your thread, bumping your idea.

Ok anyway, meme aside, how's that coming along CC? Having multiple forums wouldn't be good but I still think the tag system would work, especially if you make it so that only levels with a certain tag can display. Individual tags could have their own little icon displaying on the forum too and stuff. So yeah, um... not much I can add other then to remind everyone about this. So... /reminds?