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View Full Version : Knight vs Knight -- looking for feedback/online testing



Alic
01-25-2011, 11:40 PM
Hey guys, I just posted my level Knight vs Knight. (http://lbp.me/v/w0n-34) It's kind of a tech demo for a side scrolling coop action RPG I'm working on, and it only supports 2 players right now. Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone wants to give some feedback on the combat mechanics. I'm also not sure how it plays when lag is introduced, so that's another angle I'd like to test. Let me know if anyone's interested in playing with me.


:)


Thanks for reading,

Alex

UmJammerSully
01-25-2011, 11:47 PM
So is this 2 players only or can it be played in single player?

Alexxerth
01-25-2011, 11:48 PM
Added to my queue I will try it out and post feedback later. Seems fun.

Alic
01-25-2011, 11:59 PM
2 Players only, right now. Thought I would post it and ask for some feedback asap. But I'm working on making it detect how many players you have and changing the game to reflect that... so one player would get a computer opponent, 2 players get basic versus, and three or four players get a free for all... or maybe team versus. We'll see if I can get that up tonight :)


But agian, mainly I'm looking for suggestions on how to tweak the feel of the combat, because this system is going into a side scrolling cooperative game.


Alex

Alic
01-27-2011, 03:23 AM
Hey everybody, I'm about to post a new version of the level. Some of the improvements include:


Support for 1 player (with an AI controlled opponent).
Swing timing sped up and tweaked all around
Hit reactions tweaked
Shield blocking now slows down movement, making things more strategic.



Update isn't posted yet because I'm downloading this firmware update, but it will be sometime tonight.


Anyway, I'm looking for specific feedback about how the gameplay feels, and any advice or pointers anyone can offer.

Stuff like:

Do the attacks feel responsive enough?
Do hits match up with hit reactions?
How are the sound effects? (I need to change the life drain one, really don't like it... Any suggestions?)
Ideas for new moves or how to make the combat feel better would also be awesome.


Thanks for reading, guys!


Alex

nextlevel88
01-27-2011, 05:26 AM
I just played this by myself so I didn't get the full effect of it, but I must say that the controls feel quite responsive. I will admit that I was more hung up with how you did it than with the fun I was having, but this is very, very promising nonetheless. In other words, I'm more excited for where you could go with this as opposed to where you've been. That said, however, this is great. The mood is excellent and the way you integrated the health meters into the background is pretty cool. As I said, the controls are responsive and the hit animations look fine. As far as what to add, perhaps a kick attack that leaves the attacker open but breaks through an opponents defense if it lands?

The only other things I'd like to add are keep up the good work, and please share that microchip you mentioned in the level intro! :)

Alic
01-27-2011, 06:21 AM
Thanks for the response, nextlevel :)


I actually just got to uploading the new version of the level a few moments ago, so if you want to try it out in single player with an AI controlled opponent, go for it.


I'd really like to be able to do a kick attack to break through shield blocks, but I don't think there's a convincing way to animate that on a sackboy/sackbot. Maybe a dash attack? Right now the best way to get around blocks is to jump to the other side of your opponent and attack them from behind -- that or just knock them backwards in to a pit, since knights blocking with shields are slow.

I'm working on three and four player versions now, and then after that a coop level built around the same mechanics. Along with the coop level I'm going to work on something that will allow other creators to easily implement the same melee mechanics in their levels. It will take some tweaking/cleaning up/commenting and probably a few other unforeseen things, so it probably won't be up for a little while (a week or two). But stay tuned, and if you have any other ideas on the new changes, let me know :) I've got big plans for LBP2.


Alex

nextlevel88
01-27-2011, 03:53 PM
Well, I'm not sure how you're accomplishing this, so it's hard for me to give ideas without being overly ambitious (I think I have an idea about how you're doing it, but I digress.). However, perhaps a jump attack then? While the attacker is in the air, he's vulnerable, but if the opponent is defending, it breaks the defense?

Another idea is a special ranged attack, perhaps using magic or something (again, I'm so enthralled with where this can go, so if I'm straying too far from your original idea, stop me.)? I was recently working on a Jedi level (another reason I'm so intrigued by this), and used an emitter connected to the L2 and R2 buttons to emit a moon shaped piece of glass that resembled Force Push. Cool thing is, when you press the button, the sackboy's hand raises up to allow you to move them with the stick, giving a very convincing animation that it's coming from his hands.

Anyway, sharing this is a service to this community, so helping out is the least I can do and I'm glad if I can. Keep it up!

Alic
01-28-2011, 01:09 AM
Hey nextlevel, thanks for your help and kind words. I'm definitely thinking about the jump attack -- it seems like something that could be cleanly implemented with the tools we've got.


As far as what I'm doing to get the actiony gameplay, it's definitely not a big secret -- the basics are from tutorials like shadowriver's on sackbots and then there's a lot of carefully animating the sackbots with sequencers and then tweaking the responsiveness of the controls via analog signals with a huge debt to RTM's incredible logic blog. It's just a lot to explain, because there were a lot of things I had to do exactly one way or it felt totally off. Not sure if that makes sense, but anyway, that's why I think it will be better if I actually make a set of sackbots and microchips which people can use in their own levels, rather than just explaining it step by step. But if you have any questions about how something was done, feel free to ask.


I'm actually just finishing the 3 and 4 player modes. Unfortunately, I don't really have a way to test what they feel like... would you (or anyone else reading this) be interested in testing them on my moon before I post them? I tested the 2 player stuff a lot before I posted it, so I feel weird putting these modes up without testing at least once.

Thanks again for your time,

Alex

UmJammerSully
01-28-2011, 02:00 AM
I also played on my own so can't give the best feedback. I thought it was pretty cool though, the sackbot animation in particular is great. As mentioned above, I think 1-2 more types of attack would be very nice here. The jump attack is a great idea, and I was thinking as another one you could have a "power thrust" which would be more powerful than the regular attack with more knockback but the catch is it takes 1-2 seconds to "charge" it up, giving your opponent a small window to attack you. If you have played Smash Bros, some characters have moves like these and they always make playing multiplayer intense.

Alic
01-28-2011, 02:11 AM
sully, that's genius. A power attack would work perfect here, and yet I never would have thought of it, because I'm obsessed with making attacks with as little delay as possible. But this would work perfectly... Oh man, it also requires way less additional animation than a jump attack :)

You don't understand how brilliantly this idea will work within what I've got... it's so perfect, I'm getting a tingly feeling down my spine just thinking about how awesome it's going to be. Thank you :P

Right now I'm working on the costumes for the third and fourth knight, don't suppose anyone would want to help test some 3 or 4 player?

Alex

nextlevel88
01-28-2011, 06:19 AM
My PSN ID is the same as on here. Send me a message and I'll be glad to help you test.

Alic
01-28-2011, 11:46 AM
hey next, thanks for the offer! I didn't end up finishing the four player version tonight, because once I got the four knights working I realized they needed a bigger arena to fight in, so I decided to totally redesign the level, which led to organizing and cleaning up the logic... Anyway, I'll have it done tomorrow, so I'll hit you up for some testing then if you're around.


Alex

supremeoverlord1
01-28-2011, 09:50 PM
it good bot 1 player bot is really easy

nextlevel88
01-30-2011, 01:24 PM
Not sure if you missed it but I sent a PM.