PDA

View Full Version : How to create a Glitch 3D Camera - The Complete Guide [Update]



ballisticola
03-08-2011, 11:53 PM
You may have noticed a new menace creeping up on us and threatening to steal our framerates :boo: The menace of which I speak is the new Glitch 3D Camera :love:

Ok, I've tried to streamline it, make it easier, with a few little pictures I made to explain ;)

Pre-Tweaking

Step 1 - Place a block of Dark Matter (with a Big Grid).
Step 2 - Set the Grid to Small & Angle Snap to 90% and leave it.
Step 3 - Place a Microchip in the dead centre.
Step 4 - Place a Game Camera inside the Microchip (Movie Cameras do not work).

Dark Matter, Grid & Angle Snap settings are there for precision. If the Microchip doesn't snap easily to the dead centre, side & bottom of the Dark Matter block, move it about, this will aligne it to the Small Grid. Dark Matter is one of the only materials to let you snap a Microchip perfectly to the bottom and sides. You can change the material after, with no effect on the cameras.

Tweaking

Up The Screen Camera

Step 1 - Move the block to the Front Layer (the Glitch Front Layers 1 & 2 also work)
Step 2 - Move the block at least 32 (Big) blocks from the ground [Now no longer a problem].
Step 3 - Open the Microchip and tweak the camera
Step 4 - Set Player Tracking to 0% and Local Space to Yes.
Step 5 - The zoom of the camera should be in the middle of the Microchip, with no angle.
Step 6 - Copy the camera twice and place them. You should now have 3 of the same camera (it's the only camera to need 3).
Step 7 - Move the Microchip down until it snaps to the bottom.
Step 8 - Change the zoom. 25% for the biggest view and 600% for the closest.

The floor of Create Mode interferes with the camera, that's why you need to be 32 blocks from the floor.

I consider this pretty much pointless now, in light of new techniques, but some may still want it.

Top Down Non-Horizontal Camera (Ballisticam)
This camera is wide angle, top down.

Step 1 - The zoom of the camera should be in the middle of the Microchip, with no angle.
Step 2 - Place the Microchip on the side you require.
Step 3 - Tweak the camera, set Player Tracking to 0% and Local Space to Yes.
Step 4 - Using the Left Stick, move out of the screen. The angle should dramatically increase.
Step 5 - Use R1 & R2 to turn the camera on it's side, lining it up with the edge of Create Mode, you will probabaly need to use the Right Stick to straighten it up.
Step 6 - The camera should be set. If not, it's because you haven't increased the angle enough. This is a simple fix, just go back in and click R3, this resets the angle and you can start again.
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr19/ballisticola/RightToLeft2.jpg http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr19/ballisticola/LeftToRight.jpg
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr19/ballisticola/DownTheScreen.jpg http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr19/ballisticola/UpTheScreen.jpg
The diagrams show the direction you must move in. Right to Left, Left to Right, Down the Screen & Up the Screen.

You will never see the horizon in this view, because of the way the camera is angled down.

When setting the down the screen view, you will need to use 1% Player Tracking.
You can set the zoom at anytime, the angle is the important thing. As a rule of thumb (for all the cameras), the zoom is best set to 600% at first, because this is aways the closest view and will aways be the first to take the angle, where as 25% will be the last and will mostly be pointlessly far away anyway.

Third & First Person Horizontal Camera (Fubalicam)
As suggested, this camera sits right behind the player.

Step 1 - Set Angle Snap to 90% [was 45% before patch 1.06].
Step 2 - Set Player Tracking to 10-20% and Local Space to Yes.
Step 3 - Move the zoom of the camera to the Left or Right. Anywhere between 20-50 Big blocks is fine.
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr19/ballisticola/Fubalicam.jpg
Step 4 - Move the Right Stick against the direction you just went. So if you went Right, you are pushing Left to change the angle to look Right.
Step 5 - Move the Microchip on to the side and rotate the block 90% [was 45% before patch 1.06].
Step 6 - [New for patch 1.06] Now you have to rotate the view with R1 & R2, to straighten up. This is new, before you only needed to straighten up on more sharper angles. If you rotate the block back 90%, you get that Behind Sackboy view, that robbit10 and evret use ;)

Using this camera means the horizon is always in the middle of the screen.
Player Tracking is more useful than you think, it acts like a zoom and is needed to lock the camera in position. It's important to understand these things when trying to work out how to replicate the cameras consistently. And also how I created new camera angles.

The differences after patch 1.06. Due to the inclusion of the Move DLC some cameras were broken...or in fact improved. The first camera now doesn't react with the ground. And the last now sets at 90% rather than the previous 45% (although, previously it was natural and required no more tweaking).

Getting the Angles

Originally, the last two cameras could only go in 4 directions, because they need certain angles to work. These angles aren't always set by the Right Stick, which normally deal with the angles, sometimes they are set with the Left Stick, which normally deal with the position or even R1 & R2, which deal with rotating. It's counterintuitive and even though I've just said it, it still confuses me.
This is the reason why I recommend starting with the angles that are easiest. Fubalicam's easiest angle is at 90% [45% before patch 1.06], because as soon as you've rotated the block, it's easy to rotate the view, it basically snaps level . Once you have that camera it's easy to set the rest. And it's all about the angles. Try this:-

Step 1 - Set the Angle Snap to 5%.
Step 2 - Turn the block by that 5%.
Step 3 - Now look at the view you now have...it's not right is it.
Step 4 - All you have to do is correct it with R1 & R2.
Step 5 - There you have it, another angle.
Step 6 - But you need to have the camera facing the exact angle when you turn it on.
Step 7 - So take a Selector and attach one of the outputs to the camera.
Step 8 - Now place a Gyro at your new angle and attach the same output to it.
Step 9 - Now both will activate at the same time.

Obviously, it doesn't need to be 5%, just an example.

Ballisticam's easiest angle is dead straight from the sides. The others can be set in the same way. It works but it's better when closer to the player. The wide view doesn't really need alot of camera movement in my opinion.
Also to make it easier, opposite sides can be copied straight over, because the settings are exactly the same. Looking directly down doesn't work as well as the others.

[B]Turning Around

In theory, turning around sounds easy. All you need to do is revolve the world around the player. The only way to truly do this is with rotators. You move over a rotator it turns the world. But in practice, you need alot of rotators and a lot of space. Because if you go to one side of the room, turn around, then go back to the other side and keep doing it...eventually the world hits the sides of Create Mode.

I'm still working on this. And another secret aspect regarding 3D ;)

Credits - Basti059, Irriadiat, Fubalicious, Bremnen, robbit10, evret, Dexist, Aya042, Kurobit and gevurah22

smerf1
03-09-2011, 05:28 PM
Is this the same method as the "Real 3D Platform" Level?
I've literally just found out about this and can't test it out (PSN maintenance)

gevurah22
03-09-2011, 06:12 PM
Let's assume we are looking north in those pictures. The biggest limitation when looking east and west is when you point the cameras in that direction and you don't have the same perspective as when you're looking north. I'd be interested to hear if you found a way to fix that. Another thing I've noticed when messing around with the 3 camera system over the weekend was the fact that the POV is not as level as Fubalicious' camera. I will say that distance draw is much better using this system versus the other way.

Thanks for your work on this. =)

Silverleon
03-09-2011, 06:24 PM
Let's assume we are looking north in those pictures. The biggest limitation when looking east and west is when you point the cameras in that direction and you don't have the same perspective as when you're looking north. I'd be interested to hear if you found a way to fix that. Another thing I've noticed when messing around with the 3 camera system over the weekend was the fact that the POV is not as level as Fubalicious' camera. I will say that distance draw is much better using this system versus the other way.

Thanks for your work on this. =)

I believe Strangepom has already worked a solution for that problem, so may wanna contact him for that. :)

ballisticola
03-09-2011, 06:35 PM
@ smerf1 - That's Dexist's...sorry The Dutch Master's ;) And yes, it's the same method, I just recreated it using very precise methods. You don't need PSN to test this, I haven't done a demo because it takes a couple of minutes to make...that and I'd still be making the demo next week :D

Dexist
03-09-2011, 06:41 PM
Tried this and compared it with my own made cam, and it looked just the same!

So, great job you did there to easy it up :D

And getting darkmatter to get the microchip perfectly on the bottom, is genius, i didnt tought about that, and thats probably why I struggled some time to get the same effect:)


also, cvb23e and KuroBit did come up too with this "3 cameras" on a Mc trick. I played kurobits level, and asked myself: hmmz can i recreate/find out how this cam is made myself too?Seems i could. , so big thanks to them too ;)

So Dutch Master is a big word I did just found out how some one else did it

smerf1
03-09-2011, 06:42 PM
@ smerf1 - That's Dexist's...sorry The Dutch Master's ;) And yes, it's the same method, I just recreated it using very precise methods. You don't need PSN to test this, I haven't done a demo because it takes a couple of minutes to make...that and I'd still be making the demo next week :D

Thank you for the answer :D I should of rephrased what I meant by not being able to test it. I meant not being able to test the actual level this is used for :)

gevurah22
03-09-2011, 06:50 PM
I believe Strangepom has already worked a solution for that problem, so may wanna contact him for that. :)
I actually came up with a pretty solid workaround last night as well, but messing around with Fubalicious' camera glitch instead.

Thanks for the heads up though! :)

ballisticola
03-09-2011, 06:55 PM
Let's assume we are looking north in those pictures. The biggest limitation when looking east and west is when you point the cameras in that direction and you don't have the same perspective as when you're looking north. I'd be interested to hear if you found a way to fix that. Another thing I've noticed when messing around with the 3 camera system over the weekend was the fact that the POV is not as level as Fubalicious' camera. I will say that distance draw is much better using this system versus the other way.

Thanks for your work on this. =)

I assumed just turning the block would do it...but it doesn't. In Step 2 when you place the Microchip, I tried to turn it on it's side, before placing it on the bottom, but didn't work. I'll have a look now ;)

gevurah22
03-09-2011, 07:15 PM
Yeah, it has the same issues as a regular camera when rotating it. It rotates, but the perspective doesn't stick. Multiple camera angles should have kept that perspective as well, but under the assumption you're working on a top down level, it still looks like you're leaning to the side perspective wise when looking east/west. And when you look south, you're looking upside down, lol.

smerf1
03-09-2011, 08:37 PM
So which camera is best at the moment? anyone care to link me to the best camera giveaway LBP.me?

ballisticola
03-09-2011, 10:16 PM
With the risk of sound so amazingly arrogant...when you die and you go through those Pearly Gates, St. Peter will send you through to the massive office at the end of the corridor. When you open that door you will see ME!!! Because I am God!!! :D:D:D That's how unbelievably excited I am right this very second. Because gevurah22 you gave me a challenge and I smash that challenge into next week!!!

People of the LittleBigPlanet, open your eyes and just look!!!

That's my column, that column goes up, need I say more?
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr19/ballisticola/2.jpg
Yes, that thing on the left is me (Raiden) OUTSIDE of the area (because I'm using Holographic Material which can pass through it), you can literally zoom so far up it pointless because you can't see anything!
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr19/ballisticola/1.jpg

I'm now making a demo to better show this off. Of course I'll tell you how it's done, but yesterday that took me 6 hours (I am not a fast writer, just writing this has taken a hour :D), so I'll never get the demo done.

I'm shaking I'm that excited :):):) To the demo, then sleep...if I can?! ;)

gevurah22
03-09-2011, 10:37 PM
But that's only when you pull away from the actual camera (and twisting the perspective so that it shoots out that far). You can get that affect while tweaking with either the 3 camera tech or Fubalicious' version. This is cool if you wanted to make a Sim City type level, but you have to be really wary about the amount of complexity that gets covered in that view. Also, it doesn't solve the up-close perspective where you want the "horizon" to be at level sight with the middle of your POV.

Boscoe
03-10-2011, 12:09 AM
I'm shaking I'm that excited :):):) To the demo, then sleep...if I can?! ;)

Hee hee! Me too! I totally can't wait to design a level specifically for this effect! :)

Fubalicious
03-10-2011, 08:13 AM
Quick update, people : I've kinda "merged" Robbit/Evret's rear-cam with mine, and you can now also look to the left, right and back, still with the same perspective as in my tech-demo. By the time i had released it, Gevurah already had figured out how to do it. So, it's not difficult, but at least it's already made (yet controls need to be perfected - but i leave that to you).
Anyway, if you're interested in seeing this slightly improved version, or grabbing it to mess with it, look for '3D cam improvement', or just browse my profile! (http://lbp.me/search?q=fubalicious)
(Oh, and sorry for hijacking your thread - as it's 3D related, i didn't see the point of creating a new topic)

SimonKA
03-10-2011, 10:19 AM
Using the instructions from this thread, I've tried making my own level with it.
It's not much yet, but it has working combat, attacks, blocks, etc. Only thing lacking is a player health system (which will be really easy)

Here's how I have it looking so far:
http://lbp.me/v/yr5fk2

smerf1
03-10-2011, 11:30 AM
Using the instructions from this thread, I've tried making my own level with it.
It's not much yet, but it has working combat, attacks, blocks, etc. Only thing lacking is a player health system (which will be really easy)

Here's how I have it looking so far:
http://lbp.me/v/yr5fk2

Thats awesome :)
Just tried this method now, and it just completely messes up when I'm trying to adjust the cameras lol

robbit10
03-10-2011, 01:38 PM
Nice tutorial! You stated I said that the 3-camera method would not work.. That's not true. I said that the one Fubalicious made (and which mine is based upon), is a glitched cam and is 1 cam only. But the 3-camera approach works fine if not better, and Kurobit discovered the 3-camera method if i'm correct :)

I will try this tutorial sometime, haven't really messed around with custom Kurobit-3Dcams yet!

ballisticola
03-10-2011, 04:25 PM
Did I say I was God?! :blush: Idiot! :D

@gevurah22 - You sound like you already knew how to get that angle???
@Fubalicious - I don't think you can hijack this thread, you started it all ;)
@robbit10 - I didn't really know which one you were talking about, just what you were describing fit with my little test I did...so I almost gave up, but I didn't ;)

Anyway, I'll get my demo up soon, it's taken too long, I ended up using holographic material it slowed me down...that and trying to get gevurah22's view, which is now the Holy Grail. Because that to me unifies all the cameras. Does anybody know the procedure?

smerf1
03-10-2011, 07:21 PM
So how are people getting their camera to a near enough 90% (third/first person view) I have tried using this method to the T, but it doesn't exactly work out for me.

GribbleGrunger
03-10-2011, 07:47 PM
Is this the same method as the "Real 3D Platform" Level?
I've literally just found out about this and can't test it out (PSN maintenance)

you mean this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXbLdN4K59Q

ballisticola
03-11-2011, 04:07 PM
So my demo is up...I've had 1 play, they didn't like it, which is fair enough, I've not put much effort into it :D Even though it was about the camera and I do warn you about it;) I'm trying to think of a way to mount it differently.

A word of warning, when you're making a game out of the WHOLE area of play, watch what happens when you accidently select the background!!! Total shut down of the game for 30 second :D Not doing that again ;)

http://lbp.me/v/ysc2ze

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr19/ballisticola/1-1.jpg
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr19/ballisticola/2-1.jpg
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr19/ballisticola/3.jpg
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr19/ballisticola/4.jpg
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr19/ballisticola/5.jpg

EDIT
Forgot to say how I did it :D

It's the same as before, except you only need one camera.
When you've moved the Microchip to the left or right, tweak the camera with the Left Stick, go left when facing left and right when facing right. You will notice the camera angle increases more than normal, now turn the view on it's side with R1 & R2, you will probably need to level it up with the Right Stick. Now it should be ready, if not, it's because you haven't increased the angle enough (there's no real way of quantifying where the threshold is). This is a simple fix, just go back in and click R3, this resets the angle and you can start again.

The more the angle the greater the distance you zoom out, unti the point where you can see the whole area, but at that point you've gone to far ;)

smerf1
03-11-2011, 04:51 PM
you mean this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXbLdN4K59Q

I wasnt on about that specific one, but yeh that is it.

Dexist
03-11-2011, 04:58 PM
So my demo is up...(...)

Looks nice, I am going to check this out soon ;D

ballisticola
03-11-2011, 05:47 PM
It needs tweaking. The cameras are on the piece of rubber you ride on (which is probably the worst material you can use because it grips to the sides more), so when you hit the side it spins it...with the cameras. All I need to do is put the cameras and gyros on a block of holographic material and have them follow you, which is so obvious it makes me sick :D I'll clean it up a bit later, I just rushed it because I've never got around to publishing before, so I got too excited. It's good this game :) :D

Who came up with LBP.me? It's really addictive...and sad :D Refresh, refresh, refresh...cheers to steakmo for liking my level ;)

Clivefan11
03-11-2011, 10:19 PM
thanks for this tutorial! I made a level using it.

ballisticola
03-11-2011, 11:14 PM
Good, good, that's what we like to hear ;) Which camera did you use? Up The Screen, Left & Right, Fubalicam or Ballisticam (even though, I suspect I wasn't the first to find it :D But it sounds cool). Seriously though, we should be naming these ;) Or at least make a list of the different cameras, what they do and how good they are.

Morphweasel
03-12-2011, 08:20 PM
Thanks for the tutorial, looks amazing. Will try it out asap. I have two questions though:

1) Why do you use three cams in stead of just one? The basic idea is to get the cam to the side of the dark matter block, right? Then what's the use of the other two?

2) Can you use this method to rotate the camera 360 degrees like in this level? http://lbp.me/v/yqp4k7
If not, can I find a tutorial somewhere where it's explained how to do this 360 degree 3D-thing? :)

ballisticola
03-12-2011, 09:55 PM
1) I don't know, I think because one camera was possible in the beta, but was removed, so three do it now...maybe? All the other cameras do use one camera and they will become the cameras of choice I think. I'm at this moment writing the unified theory of them all, so stay tuned ;)
2) 360 degrees, I think, is done by moving the game itself. Moving the camera is a nightmare, you think you know what's going to happen, but you end up with an upside down view. 45 degree angles work though, Fubalicious' camera points to the corner, so you can have 4 directions. But I don't think there's a natural way of doing it.

I see you played my level...you poor person :D I'll be changing it soon, then maybe people will be able to complete it :D It's the switch that opens the first door, that people have missed ;) That and the stupid camera :D

Morphweasel
03-12-2011, 10:27 PM
Haha, yeah it was quite confusing due to the weird camera glitches :P

I think it will all make sence when I mess around with the 3D cam glitch myself. Right now it all sounds a bit strange. I'll try it out tomorrow, when I'm back home ^_^

ballisticola
03-12-2011, 11:36 PM
That's all fine and fixed now ;) It's still getting deleted though :D Believe it or not, the camera I gave away is worse than the one you play with (I messed about with it and forgot to change the original). But that's ok, because only 3 people out of 23 completed it :D

robbit10
03-16-2011, 06:26 AM
As I said in the other thread:
It's nice that the community is working on a rotating 3D camera, but what you guys shouldn't forget is that when the Local Space issue in Game Cameras in fixed, it will probably enable rotation in a flash. Why not just wait until Media Molecule fixes the Local Space issue?

There was a time in the LBP2 beta that Local Space wasn't broken - and it was great! Yes, fluid rotation will be made possible when Media Molecule fixes the Local Space issue.

Please spread the message. Play this level and refer the other people whom are working on the 3D cam to it too:
http://i7.lbp.me/img/bl/4f745175acb02601b93a0ebca026c61c98df8ed9.png
Click here (http://lbp.me/v/yzyxyv)
(It's a message to all 3D Cam developers)

ballisticola
03-16-2011, 07:50 PM
What was the address again Robbit?

robbit10
03-16-2011, 08:02 PM
Address? What do you mean?

ballisticola
03-16-2011, 08:59 PM
The address for Mm...it's ok I've found it now :D And it looks very promising:-

"Thanks for the post,
We have noticed that this has become broken since the beta and will be fixing it.

Mm "

Surely a good thing, it's not like it was an automated message. There were two threads, in both Mm acknowledge it :) Fingers crossed ;)

robbit10
03-17-2011, 05:40 AM
Awesome! So they're aware and fixing it. I will update my level accordingly!

Dexist
03-17-2011, 10:13 AM
Didnt look in this thread for a few days, and man, ballisticola you made this tutorial pretty awesome! All very easy to understand now :D

ballisticola
03-17-2011, 05:41 PM
I went overboard on the pictures :D Step 1 - Make a Dark Matter Block...so I went into Paint and drew a black square :D It was stupid, it would have taken an hour to load if I'd put them all in :D

All we need to do now is wait. Mm first said that on the 4th February and then again on the 24th and the last update was on the 8th, so we've had 2 updates. Surely, it has to be soon ;)
EDIT - Mm on the Layer Glitch "We love what's been done with this glitch since it was first discovered and are currently considering implementing it in a future patch. It would be a pretty big feature though, and so might take a while if we were to go ahead with it.

Mm " That was 24 days ago.

Imagine that in one patch :love:

I'm knackered anyway, I've hardly had any sleep for about 10 days :eek: So I'm playing Peace Walker for a change of pace...but if you're thinking "Traitor!" it is actually research ;) For my first actual game, Metal Gear: Project Mercury :) Something I've been planning for about a year now and it's the first of a trilogy...I just hope nothing in Peace Walker steps on my toes :D It's going to take a lot of custom A.I and logic, but that's the fun bit ;) And of course 3D, a nice big chunk of crawling through grass and air vents :)

Morphweasel
03-23-2011, 10:57 PM
Hey guys, I'm making some great progress with my 3D level and it's going to be a blast, but there is one thing that I can't figure out completely...

What is the best way to make a HUD for a 3D level? In my specific case, I want to show the the text "stage 1", "stage 2" etc. to the player. I've tried using the 3D cam to place stickers on the bottom of a piece of glass (which acts like a wall in 3D view), but no matter what, the stickers will be distorted somehow when placed on the bottom of a material... :( I can't think of a way other than using stickers. Someone got an idea?


EDIT: I think I already got it! Using a black sticker on a hologram and using the 3D glitch cam's view to paste it on the bottom, I was able to attach a self-made photo of white letters on a black background. The result: glowing letters as a HUD in 3D-view. Awesome! :D (edit 2: see picture below ^^)

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2976/aphoto.jpg

DominationMags
03-29-2011, 02:33 AM
What camera is used for the one like Overcharged 3D Racer?

robbit10
03-29-2011, 05:34 AM
@DominationMags: Steve_Big_Guns used the 16-way rotation cam which is based on Fubalicious's cam. That cam is glitchy (especially the rotation) and there are better cams available, which I notified Steve_Big_Guns about and he now has the better cam (Kurobit's cam, which is basically the same as the one used in this tutorial). It doesn't have rotation, but I also showed him my message level that says to wait for a fix from Media Molecule that enables 3D Rotation in a flash. All that has to happen is for Media Molecule to fix the bugged Local Space option. Then, 3D rotation will be available. And Media Molecule has confirmed on GetSatisfaction that they are working on it, so it is just a matter of waiting. I advise against trying to create a rotating 3D cam for now.

Renegade Assassin
03-29-2011, 06:06 AM
so when is mm going to realease the patch

DominationMags
03-29-2011, 02:23 PM
Basically I want the cam like Overcharged, right behind sackboy (Or controlinator) Driving a car through different terrains, but the whole time the camera is behind sackboy.EDIT: Does this involve rotation?

Morphweasel
03-29-2011, 04:47 PM
What you want to do doesn't require rotations ;)

ballisticola
03-30-2011, 02:55 PM
@DominationMags: Steve_Big_Guns used the 16-way rotation cam which is based on Fubalicious's cam. That cam is glitchy (especially the rotation) and there are better cams available, which I notified Steve_Big_Guns about and he now has the better cam (Kurobit's cam, which is basically the same as the one used in this tutorial). It doesn't have rotation

Better in what respect? The 16 way camera is the one from this tutorial.

robbit10
03-30-2011, 06:28 PM
@Ballisticola: The 16-way-cam, in my opinion, makes levels annoying to play and makes them look glitchy. When you switch to a new camera angle, the camera has to adjust for about a second. When you have to turn around in a level a lot, this might make you dizzy, among other things. It just is annoying.
I'm saying Kurobit's cam (or, in other words, the cam from this tutorial without the rotation stuff) is better, because it is way less glitchy and provides fluid gameplay. The 16-way rotation cam doesn't.

ballisticola
03-30-2011, 07:04 PM
Makes them look glitchy? Switching cameras can't be helped, but you don't need to switch the cameras, you can just disable it. I'm confused because you're saying the camera that Kurobit has is the same as the one in this tutorial...the one in this tutorial is exactly the same as the 16 way camera...I wrote the tutorial and made the 16 way camera :D

robbit10
03-30-2011, 08:21 PM
Hmm.. Sorry, I should've read that tutorial more carefully - and should've searched for the original creator of the 16 way cam :P

As you know, i'm all for waiting for Media Molecule to fix the Local Cameras so that 360-degree rotation will be enabled.. In the meantime, sure, you can use these kinds of rotating cams, but they look glitchy, and will probably break when Media Molecule's fix arrives anyways - because the camera angle set in all cameras will be all different. Switching cameras might actually be helped, I have an idea that might fix it. Will try it out soon, but when I release it i'll still state that the cam will break when Media Molecule releases their fix.

ballisticola
03-30-2011, 08:45 PM
Yeah, I'm well aware that all my weeks of studying this glitch could well be (and hopefully) wiped out in one update :D When you say it's glitchy, do you mean the draw distance of the ground? That can be fix by moving the camera further away, I think...I never did get around to that side of it ;)

robbit10
03-31-2011, 06:06 AM
@Ballisticola: No, I mean the glitchiness of switching between angles. Just look at Steve_Big_Guns's Overcharged 3D Racer, every time you enter a portal the camera needs some time to adjust. In a high-speed racer, this greatly distracts. Not saying his level isn't a great achievement, but last time I played it, it was laggy, and the cameras needed time to adjust to a different angle. I was on my own, no multiple players involved.

Also, i'd like to add that if I succeed in making a rotation camera that better fades between cams, I will of course give you credit.

ballisticola
03-31-2011, 04:39 PM
You will not give me credit, I will not take it! :D I'll tell everybody you're a liar and that you were too humble to accept such a great achievement! :D If you do it, I will make a level dedicated to you ;)

I only take credit for Ballisticam (which no one uses anyway...mostly because I still haven't fixed it :D) and finding how to get all the angles, I'm quite proud of that one...it's still going to be wiped out though :D

Yeah, it's definitely better without camera movement. I did start a Go Karting level and was going to have the camera automatically change when you got to the corner. But I would imagine many crashes :D Camera movement of Ballisticam is better, but I think that's because it only has two angles and you don't notice the change as much.

robbit10
04-02-2011, 07:21 PM
I managed to make the 8-way smooth rotation cam (which fixes the jumpiness of switching between angles), but i ran across some problems. First, the camera AND the vehicle have to be in the 1st (top, in 3D view) layer, otherwise the camera will not work right. Second, the camera is not completely parallel like Kurobit's cam and fubalicious's glitched cam. I'm starting to suspect Kurobit used fubalicious's glitched cam in his cam.

Could you help me out on this, please?

ballisticola
05-26-2011, 04:24 PM
Rise like a phoenix from the flames, my beautiful thread :D

In the last week, it seem that the 3D revolution has risen like a phoenix from the flames ("they will know are names, can you feel it"), I've had many messaging me about it ;)

Fingers crossed that the Move DLC doesn't break this!

evret
05-26-2011, 07:57 PM
yeah steve's level had a big impact on that, and it was just a trailer, although we've been talking about adding my rotating tech to it to try and get it playable ;)

Yohan
05-30-2011, 09:21 PM
First i want to thank you and everyone who woked on the 3d tutorial! Extremely helpful information!!
Is was wondering if you could help me.
I found your instructions about the 3d camera, i follow them and made 4 types of camera, including the one used by steve_big_guns on the fps trailer.
The only thing is: i can rotate perfectly a small portion of the map but not huge sections. Do you know were i can find a info for that? or how can i turn the character but not the map?

ballisticola
05-30-2011, 10:54 PM
I'll get back to you on that, I think I know, but I'll have to test it. I thought I did know (and was just writing it :D), but realized a massive flaw :D

acdramon
05-31-2011, 10:10 PM
This is a very well explained Tut! I LOVE IT!

Yohan
06-01-2011, 11:51 PM
I'll get back to you on that, I think I know, but I'll have to test it. I thought I did know (and was just writing it :D), but realized a massive flaw :D

I think i've found a very simple way: i made 1 3d camera, glue a big piece of thin layer to my character ( a hand with a lantern ) and put motorbots to move de walls and objects with the L1 and R1 ( each section glue to a piece of inviseble hologram. So now i can walk, move any room without problem, anything else will receive a anti-gravity switch and since its a dark level the illusion of movement is great. I'm still testing but seems to be working.

evret
06-12-2011, 07:45 AM
just a heads up that i will be making my fps paintball level copyable when i publish my next level (not too far away) so anyone can reverse engineer my technique to see exactly how it works, although the logic used is quite advanced so a decent knowledge of logic will be required.
if you dont know the level i'm referring to it this one http://lbp.me/v/0ht9kb
it dynamicly moves the axis of rotation of the level so the level always moves and rotates around the player correctly, the player does not move at all so there is no chance of hitting the edges of create mode unless your level is just too big

ballisticola
06-12-2011, 03:10 PM
just a heads up that i will be making my fps paintball level copyable when i publish my next level (not too far away) so anyone can reverse engineer my technique to see exactly how it works, although the logic used is quite advanced so a decent knowledge of logic will be required.

*Flexes muscles* I love a good challenge :D And if it's how I think you've done it, it will be a challenge ;)

evret
06-12-2011, 07:58 PM
http://id.lbp.me/img/ft/e1d09c5b10773bf8aa1b5c0607077148486de8a7.jpg

ballisticola
06-12-2011, 08:25 PM
Is that an actual Sack...stupid question :D I'm going to have to do that for my games, make my own Sackboys, so they can "walk" in 3D. I'll either use them in the 3D layers (the ones moving away from me) or stick them to the back layer and make them look like they're moving in 3D.

evret
06-12-2011, 10:02 PM
Sackbot, his head bobs in the direction your moving, also has pump action, reload, and recoil animations.

ballisticola
06-12-2011, 11:06 PM
Oh yeah, it can be a Sackbot can't it! I'm having stupid day to day :D Gravity boots, so Sackbots can walk on walls, that's what we need ;)

SSTAGG1
06-13-2011, 03:46 AM
So just to be clear, there is currently no augmented view camera that allows you to turn around *without* turning the entire level..? Public or not, has any been made?

evret
06-13-2011, 06:19 AM
I've heard of setups that smoothly transitions between multiple cameras, but I havnt seen any myself. But tbh I find it hard to believe anyone has done all the views well enough to not notice the change, especially with any form of HUD or gun staying in the same place on screen while rotating.

SSTAGG1
06-13-2011, 07:53 AM
Darn.

Next question: How successful have people been with moving 'moving' objects around the level while the player turns. It seems like quite a significant drawback to the setup. I imagine this could be solved by simply connecting whatever that moves directly to the map with a series of pistons, and then just adjusting the pistons to move, but again, that's fairly limited.

evret
06-13-2011, 09:01 AM
my enemies move properly on the level, even while rotating, i use a similar method to how i get the level moving and rotating properly

robbit10
06-13-2011, 02:42 PM
@evret: You mean my smoothly rotating 8-angle 3D cam? I deleted it because it was useless - the camera would not work if there was ANY scenery near the camera, and it had to be in the top layer. However, I can make it again for you if you like, and perhaps you can build further on it. When there's no scenery in the way and it is on the top layer, the rotation looks surprisingly smooth. I'm not sure what effect it has on HUDs, though.

evret
06-13-2011, 08:04 PM
i've heard of several others besides yours, but as i said i havnt seen any of them in action so i have no idea how well they actually work. i'm not intersted in it personally as rotating the level is working fine for my current level and i think i'd wait and see what the upcoming patch/dlc will do to the camera b4 i work on another level using it

ballisticola
06-13-2011, 09:50 PM
@evret: You mean my smoothly rotating 8-angle 3D cam? I deleted it because it was useless - the camera would not work if there was ANY scenery near the camera, and it had to be in the top layer. However, I can make it again for you if you like, and perhaps you can build further on it. When there's no scenery in the way and it is on the top layer, the rotation looks surprisingly smooth. I'm not sure what effect it has on HUDs, though.

That's a shame, when I saw it I thought you had it nailed. I tried to do it, but I didn't have a clue what you did...and you thought I would steal it :D

Evret, does your system use a sort of compass, so it knows what way you are facing? I'm trying to work out how it's done...before I see it, get a head start :D

Today, I've been trying to make a Sackboy, but a behind view. I did use the camera that Robbit used (the one that looks down the three layers), but when the Sackbot runs towards you he just faces the other way and runs backwards. What I want is, a 3D view where the Sackbots move towards and away from you...that's all :D How do you tell the player "You can only use FPS mode when the enemy is moving towards you"? :D

SSTAGG1
06-13-2011, 10:41 PM
evret, I'm very curious about how you've set up the movement of moving objects in your levels. Seems like something we could all gain from being able to use.....*cough*

ballisticola
06-13-2011, 10:43 PM
evret, I'm very curious about how you've set up the movement of moving objects in your levels. Seems like something we could all gain from being able to use.....*cough*

Yeah and being a right tease about it :D

SSTAGG1
06-13-2011, 11:51 PM
Perhaps I'll just try out some things myself. This is the first I've dealt with these cameras, but I'm sure I could throw something together that could provide an acceptable amount of functionality.

Actually, I think I just thought of a perfect way to do this.... =]. I'll return with my results.

EDIT: Quick question @evret: Will your system work with emitted things? I'm fairly certain mine will.

evret
06-14-2011, 02:09 AM
Quick question @evret: Will your system work with emitted things? I'm fairly certain mine will.

yes, all my enemies are emitted.
sorry to be so vague, but i have no idea where to even begin to explain it as i kinda see it as a whole and the various pieces that make it up are nothing on their own.
but i suppose the first thing you'd need to understand is what I like to call positional movers, basicly it's a mover that positions itself relative to a tag based on a second ana log signal using a sensor, combiners and splitters.
a lot of my method is based on this technique, so if you get that worked out you should b able to work out the rest, but as i said i'll b making my paintball level copyable within a few days and i'll b happy to answer any questions based on what you find in there

Mr_Fusion
06-14-2011, 06:53 AM
I'm lucky enough to say I have played Evert's stage in create mode. Even with explanation and seeing the setup it's still mind boggling how it works.

But golly gosh. It works. Works well. Circle strafing a skeleton while reloading a pump action shotgun has never looked so good!

SSTAGG1
06-16-2011, 07:08 PM
If anyone would like to hazard an attempt to explain it, I'd greatly appreciate. I've never been able to use the Marvel Level Kit, so evret's copyable version is still a mystery to me.

Even a pic would be mighty useful at this point.

evret
06-16-2011, 07:55 PM
i just published another version of it that shouldn't contain any dlc for ya, what did you think of Dem Bones?

SSTAGG1
06-17-2011, 04:08 AM
Dem Bones was very cool. Getting attacked from behind by the skeletons is frightening, dropped controller as I jumped at the screen pulse red along with the sounds. Lighting and sounds were great, and HUD was very nice (just sticker on the side of holo, right?).

Also, just to be sure, there was only the 1 room? It seemed to me that there could have been more to it, but in all, I really enjoyed playing it.

I was planning on using this cam for my new project, so many thanks for the adjusted version.

SSTAGG1
06-17-2011, 07:19 AM
Alright, first of all, wow. That's some mighty fine logic. Spent quite a while looking for the DCS left stick reciever, then realized you must have an alternate setup somewhere.

This was actually exactly what I was trying to make. I didn't make much progress, but at least I was on the right track.

Also, I see your point about the enemies. They shouldn't be too difficult to add in.

Now some questions:

1) In order to change the size of the room, is it a simple matter of just adjusting the positions of the coordinate tags and adjusting the range of the sensors, or are additional changes needed?

2) The reason for the adders for the room movement? I know that they allow it to function properly, but I'm curious as to what makes them necessary.

3) Any particular reason for the rotation of the room and the movement speed of the player? I tested double and seemed to work okay, but that was without using the 1st person view, so I didn't get to see if it really impacted the smoothness of the view.

4) What material is the actual moving DCS resting on? It's completely invisible to me.

5) Any ideas on how to lessen the delay between the room spinning and the movement of the players/enemies? I know that's inherent to using an indirect movement method, but you are obviously much better than myself at this, so perhaps you've thought of something....

6) Each enemy needs to be unique to allow correct positioning (right?), so how full was the thermo for "Dem Bones"? I'd imagine not very, but I've been very wrong before.

That's all for now.

evret
06-17-2011, 09:28 AM
1) In order to change the size of the room, is it a simple matter of just adjusting the positions of the coordinate tags and adjusting the range of the sensors, or are additional changes needed?
if your just selecting the level and enlarging it all you'd need to do is increase the sensor ranges, however (continued on question 3)
2) The reason for the adders for the room movement? I know that they allow it to function properly, but I'm curious as to what makes them necessary.
it's multiplying the signal to improve stability, the movers rely on an analog signal and they have to move too much to give the mover decent signal, you can remove them, but you'll notice a drop in stability
3) Any particular reason for the rotation of the room and the movement speed of the player? I tested double and seemed to work okay, but that was without using the 1st person view, so I didn't get to see if it really impacted the smoothness of the view.
it all comes down to stability, while it can seem fine with higher speeds, the real test is when you move to the edges of the level, with a larger level or higher rotation speed you will notice it becomes unstable when you start and stop rotating near the edge of the level, i found that the if you want to make a larger room you will have to sacrifice rotation speed to keep it stable, to increase the rotation speed you you would have to sacrifice level size
4) What material is the actual moving DCS resting on? It's completely invisible to me.
invisable material, it's a glitched material that has physical properties but cant be seen, not sure how it was created or what material it was b4 it was glitched though, ppp_killer gave it too me while i was making my rewind level (used in rail jump) ages ago
5) Any ideas on how to lessen the delay between the room spinning and the movement of the players/enemies? I know that's inherent to using an indirect movement method, but you are obviously much better than myself at this, so perhaps you've thought of something....
as above with the multiplyer, if you use a higher multiplyer it causes the level to become really jerky
6) Each enemy needs to be unique to allow correct positioning (right?), so how full was the thermo for "Dem Bones"? I'd imagine not very, but I've been very wrong before.
i think the thermo is just below half, i only have one enemy, and one enemy clone(for the not rotating room) i spawn both at the same time and they choose a set of sensors/tags (skeletons have 10 sets) based on what set of sensors/tags are already in use by previously emitted enemies (does that make any sense?)

SSTAGG1
06-17-2011, 05:23 PM
Have you ever tried using a gradual increase/decrease in the rotation of the room? That was my plan before, as I thought it would help remove some of the jerkiness at the edges. I don't see how it would cause any issues either.

For the enemies, is it actually simpler to just add in whatever selection logic you need to determine which tag set it uses, or just use a separate emitter with a different enemy? The logic savings would be minimal, but with several enemies, that difference might be worth it.

Also, I want to try to simplify your setup. Mind if I mess around with it?

EDIT: Also, this has the potential to allow online multiplayer matches using this camera view, like in what is being done with the revolutionary fps project (afaik).

evret
06-17-2011, 07:11 PM
i messed around quite a bit with acceleration for rotation, even tried it with timers but i never found a setup that allowed for faster rotation yet still felt responsive.

and yes you can use different enemies for each emitter but imo thats a lot more work if you need to make any changes, especially if your enemies are the same in every other way, plus in my level it randomly selects a spawn each time it emitts a new enemy so i needed it to be able to have more than one enemy from each emitter at once.

you can try simplifying, but i'm pretty sure you'll find there isnt much there that doesn't need to be.

and yes i know this could be used for multiplayer, but you need alot more room when using multiple rotating rooms, and my experience with online lag and this setup leads me to believe it would end up almost unplayable by most people. maybe 2 player without enemies would be ok but i've never liked 1v1 shooters

ballisticola
06-17-2011, 10:28 PM
The one day I don't play it! :D Tomorrow then ;)

SSTAGG1
06-17-2011, 10:39 PM
Quick question: Is the only issue when switching from the 1st person view to the normal view (and vice-versa) that of the messed up transition?

evret
06-18-2011, 01:42 AM
yeah, simple way around it is make the level fade to black then back in when the view has transitioned

ballisticola
06-18-2011, 03:00 PM
I have literally no idea what I'm looking at! I hate a challenge! :D

What is the other room for? And there's a red tag that doesn't do anything? And there's a red tag sensor (look) that doesn't seem to do anything...until you try deleting it and it does actually do something :D

SSTAGG1
06-18-2011, 05:06 PM
This is my attempt to explain it:

1) All direct movement is done in the non-rotating room (the side room you don't see in the level)
2) Based on the location, you get an X,Y coordinate, X and Y being analog values provided by distance from the X and Y axis tags (they're not actually X,Y coordinates, but can be treated as such)
3) The camera location in the actual room provides a similar X,Y coordinate, and compares it to that of the side room
4) Based on which values are larger/smaller, the room moves to make both the camera analog position values and the side room analog position values the same
5) Since the room has now moved relative to where the player is located in the side room, you appear to have moved in the actual room
6) This can then be done for any moving component in the room, only the object moves instead of the room (so just put the movement logic that was on the room onto the object, with the inputs from the unit instead of the camera logic)

It doesn't matter what the rotation of the room is, since the X, Y axis rotate as well. Only issue is that of the delay between the room moving and when the units move, since tag value detection creates a delay.

ballisticola
06-18-2011, 10:16 PM
I think I'm getting to grips with some of the things. But, as usual, I'm trying to work things out by doing my own experiments.

SSTAGG1
06-19-2011, 09:31 PM
I just made a slightly different version of evret's camera system. I haven't tested it very much, but as of now, it is only a little bit simpler. I think I may have solved part of the issue with the latency between rotating the map and objects moving. Instead of an adv. mover, I used 4 simple movers. They have better acceleration and response for some reason (perhaps due to how the adv. mover component was made?), so it may appear slightly more smooth. I base location on a 4 tag system, N/E/S/W, and compare each to their partnered non-rotating room signal. Don't really know if it works better than the 2 tag system though.

ballisticola
07-05-2011, 09:10 PM
Evret - Is there any way to speed it up? Not that I would understand it anyway. But I noticed it was maxed out.

I've made my own design, but it's not as good.

evret
07-06-2011, 12:01 AM
are you talking about movement or rotation? niether are maxed out when it comes to mover/rotator settings, the rotator is in a chip at the top right of the rotating room, the advanced mover for movement is in a chip in the center of the non-rotating room to the right of the rotating room. however speeding either up could cause stability issues with the way everything else works

ballisticola
07-06-2011, 08:51 PM
I mean movement, I thought the mover was at 100%?

evret
07-07-2011, 04:04 AM
the mover on the rotating room IS set to 100%, but that does not control movement speed when your playing, it just keeps the room in the right place relative to the player based on the position of the player "clone" in the non-rotating room to the right of the rotating room, if you change the speed of the mover on the "clone" you will speed up the movement speed when playing ( i think it's set at 4 or 6 or something)
i've managed to greatly improve rotation speed without sacrificing much stability and i've updated Dem Bones (http://lbp.me/v/1g9hte) with it

ballisticola
07-07-2011, 08:46 PM
4 or 6!!! Nice, better get understanding it :D

jayjayinator
08-08-2011, 11:18 PM
uhhm media molecule picks also picks out levels like over charged 3d racer with the 3d cam glitch i think they wont get it away beacause they saw whats posibil

AdamPlaysGames
08-13-2011, 04:14 AM
uhhm media molecule picks also picks out levels like over charged 3d racer with the 3d cam glitch i think they wont get it away beacause they saw whats posibil

Err... sure?

ballisticola
09-13-2011, 08:37 PM
"Rumours of my death have been greatly exaggerated".

Two of the three camera's still work. Except "Third & First Person Horizontal Camera (Fubalicam)" my favourite :( It's dead...or is it!!! Of course not :love: Bare in mind, I haven't got all the angles (and doubt you can), but you can get the view looking straight up. Just follow the instructions as normal and rotate the block 90%, that's it ;)

So right now it doesn't look like there are anymore angles for that camera...but I'll have a go...anything to put off trying to work out Evret's work of art rotation :D

thetoxicfox
02-24-2012, 04:35 AM
Hey, if anybody wants verbal instructions for an easy camera I can give :) First, place block of dark matter one big-grid square size. Then, place white matter 50 big-grid blocks above it. Change the grid to small and place a game camera DIRECTLY in the center of the dark matter. Change player tracking to 1 and local space to yes. Then, position the camera's crosshair-thingies on the white matter above. Slowly move the camera itself on to the top of the dark matter so it is flat, and you have a 3d camera. This camera ONLY WORKS AT 90 DEGREE ANGLES!!! (you can now delete white matter and change the zoom on the camera to your liking.) I got this technique from seperateentity, if you need to see it more visually here is the link to th LBP.me page

http://lbp.me/v/6ez5d7

P.S. this works with 1.06 AND new move DLC, I know cuz I have the pack :)

ballisticola
02-24-2012, 08:56 PM
@thetoxicfox, this camera is basically the same as the second one in this thread. You don't even need to go 50 blocks away, it works at 20 (although, I use 25 ;)) with 10% Player Tracking (which acts as a zoom for 3D cameras). The fact that you go 50 blocks away is why you can use 1% Player Tracking, it's cancelling out the need for it ;) The best thing about after the update is that you can switch between Up, Down, Left and Right almost instantly, without the camera going mad like it did before. I've been studying these camera too long I think :D

All the cameras can be created after 1.06 ;) They even have a slightly better viewing angle.

There are alot of people out there who seem to think just creating the camera is the hardest part, all the cameras are easy to make.

I'm currently working on some of the harder aspects of 3D in the next few months :)

thetoxicfox
02-25-2012, 07:01 PM
It's working fine for me. I originally tried to use your camera ideas, but, after an hour or so, I found it much to advanced for me. I tried seperateentity's version and had a camera up and running in about 4-5min. I'm sure there are better cameras out there, but, for ease of building, this one takes the cake. I'm currently using it to make a Wild West themed game called Attack of the Carniverous Cows, so do be sure to check it out ;) If anybody has simple in structions for a full-rotation 3d camera that works at all angles, please post a tutorial level and give the name on this thread. THANKYOU!!!:p:p:p

evret
02-26-2012, 12:57 PM
If anybody has simple in structions for a full-rotation 3d camera that works at all angles, please post a tutorial level and give the name on this thread. THANKYOU!!!:p:p:p

lmao, thanx i needed that :P

ballisticola
02-26-2012, 10:50 PM
lmao, thanx i needed that :P

Instructions you mean? :D I still don't understand it...mind you there is a reason *nudge, nudge, wink, wink*

Now, Evret, if I should happen to post or publish something soon, that may or may not mention your rotation tech...I'm not laying into it, I genuinely love it, but don't understand it. And I'm the kind of person that needs to understand the ins and outs, before I can use it ;)

On that actually, have you ever thought about pushing the other room into the back layers? So you can have bigger rooms and more space to work in ;)

@thetoxicfox - What a brilliant find! :love: You don't even need to straighten up the angle, nice! ;)