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zabel99
03-09-2011, 12:41 PM
It's time I get around to making a thread for this. It's a shooter & platformer that auto-scrolls, which I think is a rare combination. Okay, the platforming is minor, but you will get to do A LOT of shooting, I can promise. Hold down the R1 button to spam your enemies with throwing stars, and expect boss fights, etc. Enjoy!

Of the few people to have played this in the two weeks since it's been published, all those who have rated it, reviewed it, or even completed it have been members of this forum. Thank you, guys :-)


http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/8127/1d248718600669c4af0efe9.jpg
http://lbp.me/v/x245p3

Kanada Ten
03-09-2011, 01:36 PM
There's lots of hilarious awesomeness going on here.

The Shuriken Machine Gun, the endless barrage of varied enemies, the dragon, the cat, the gong, the boss... All just rock in the classic over-the-top way. Winged dogs!

I kinda felt it should scroll slightly faster, which would require the enemies to die faster, as well. Not sure if it's worth the effort to do so. Also, the wall jump after the dragon was awkward, but I think you knew that.

PTdragon
03-09-2011, 01:49 PM
My son currently owning my ps3 !! I cant test it :P But is listed. Dont worry i will play it and review soon. For the screens and the ingame comments it seems Awsome :)

Meanwhile if u can f4f my lvl on sig i will apreciate ;)

PTdragon
03-09-2011, 02:41 PM
Ok here it goes:
- The level idea is amazing.. this shows were creativity and imagination.
- I loved the game play and the created mobs to kill were nice
But there were some problem that you can fix.. only if were on purpose to stay like that:
- Sensors - Screws - were Visible
- Our ninja could have other color.. like Black suit only eyes to see - Like a true Ninja :P
- And if u made the controlinator invisible i think was cooler that we see our Sackboy there.
- I think if we control the hand with Right Analog things can work better.
- That wall we need jump to higher Plataform - was a bit hard ^^ i know we are ninjas with double jump and stick to wall but was a little hard to make it, put somekind of little plataform (if u want) to make it easier .

Apart of that the level is really fun :)

zabel99
03-09-2011, 03:41 PM
Thanks for the feedback :)

Kanada Ten >
I was thinking of giving the birds more health anyway, so speeding up the scrolling wouldn't be a hassle, at least for the beginning part where it was probably the slowest, huh? Did other people think the scrolling was too slow?

PTdragon >
Unfortunately, due to a bug I encountered in create mode, it is impossible for me to make any more changes to the ninja object :(

For the wall jump part, you can do more than a double jump, you can jump off the wall as many times you like. In fact, you can even "stick" to the wall and stay for any length of time simply by holding right on the analog stick. It looks silly, I know :-P What could I do to make the unlimited wall jump more apparent to the player? Maybe add another set of arrows above the first?

PTdragon
03-09-2011, 03:43 PM
If u cant edit the Ninja let him be like that ^^ But u cant put controlinator invisible so we cant see sackboy?
The Jump.. let it be :) i just said was a bit hard to go up nothing tricky ^^

zabel99
03-09-2011, 03:49 PM
I wish I could make the controllinator invisible, but it's too late now -_-

Well, you're not the only one who has commented on the wall jump, so I really should do something about it. I think I'll add a second set of arrows. It seems like everybody is figuring out that there is a wall jump. They just don't realize that it's unlimited.

StarrKable
03-17-2011, 03:36 PM
I queued your level. As soon as I've got time I'll play your level and leave a feedback :)

zabel99
03-18-2011, 02:20 AM
I figured out a workaround for the bug that was preventing me from updating the ninja object, so I can now hide the controllinator :)

StarrKable
03-19-2011, 08:58 AM
So, I played it and I would like to give my feedback now :p

I really enjoyed the level, it was very unique and the bosses were quite cool :) And I also liked the environment though it could do with a few more stickers or decorations.
Also sometimes you get stuck and if you want to respawn you wait sometimes quite a long time in the glass box with the checkpoint.

But all in all it was a very unique and fun level with a few little mistakes :)

zabel99
03-19-2011, 06:55 PM
Thank you for your feedback.

The waiting around for the ninja to respawn is something that's been bothering me. I have no idea why it is that way or what I can do about it. My understanding of emitters is that if you have the emit frequency set at 0, and there is nothing that can block the object from being emitted, and you haven't reached the max # of objects to emit, it ought to emit as soon as it is able to. And yet....

StarrKable
03-19-2011, 07:25 PM
Indeed that's very odd.
I usually put the frequency set at 0,1 but this may be a habbit out of LBP1 :p Perhaps you could try setting it at 0,1. That would be my suggestion :P

waylindAR5
03-20-2011, 12:28 AM
It's a fairly unique level in terms of its looks. I liked the look of the enemies and there is a good variety of enemies. My feeling is that your level would be more popular if you capitalized on the platforming aspect of being a ninja. Right now it's more of a scrolling shooter with a few platforming elements.

The scrolling feels slower than it needs to be. Ideally the player has some input to speed up the scrolling although a lot of scrolling games don't do this.

Jumping feels a little off in that it feels a little too floaty. Wall jumping is awkward. Iit would seem better to just let the ninja climb up and down without any special tricks and reserve wall jumping for doing things like evading obstacles embedded in the walls.

I agree with the suggestion that the right analog stick should be used for aiming. It's a convention for many games with that kind of machine gun attack to do so with the right analog stick. I didn't realize I only had to hold down a button for continuous fire and constantly got swamped by enemies the first time I played the level.

There are some minor issues with enemies such as birds throwing things from off-screen when you can't aim high enough to do anything about an incoming egg that appears on screen.

zabel99
03-20-2011, 07:18 PM
Perhaps you could try setting it at 0,1.

It was a good idea but it didn't work. I'm suspecting this is another bug in the game, perhaps related to the other bug with the ninja object that I'm having to deal with.

waylindAR5:
Thanks for the feedback. Looks like there are still some common complaints that I need to consider. Some of those suggestions would require an overhaul that I'm not willing to do, but others can be changed easily. I'll probably axe the wall jumping completely next time I get around to updating. Players are unanimous in saying it's awkward.

Kanada Ten
03-20-2011, 07:53 PM
It was a good idea but it didn't work. I'm suspecting this is another bug in the game, perhaps related to the other bug with the ninja object that I'm having to deal with.

Interesting; I'd assumed you were using tags or something to prevent the ninja spawning over enemies or instant death... Perhaps there's actually some invisible material or such that the emitter is detecting as "in the way"? Hum, I wonder if using a "Player Sensor" at the checkpoint activating the emitter, rather than auto-emitting, would make it respawn faster?

I thought about trying to ace the level, since I had gotten so much better at it by the end, but when I tried, I got axed by the first fish, like a n00b.

zabel99
03-21-2011, 07:13 AM
Good idea but still no bones. The ninja still won't respawn immediately even when the screen is basically empty. And it seems as if the longer I have spent making this level the longer the respawn times have gotten. It didn't use to be like this, grrrr.

Kanada Ten
03-21-2011, 02:42 PM
I don't know, playing it last night, I didn't think the spawn times were bad. Never missed out on an enemy because of it or anything. Still, looks like I'll never be able to ace it.

zabel99
03-21-2011, 10:04 PM
Well, I'm glad to hear that and I value your opinion because you've played the level several times. It does still worry me though, especially if I'm right about it getting worse the longer I work on the level. I remember the "160-hour bug" from LBP1 all too well and the headaches it gave me.

I tried some tests today where I substituted a much smaller object that can't possibly have anything blocking it. Same problem, so now at least I know it's not the object itself that is causing this. Gonna post in the help forum and see if someone knows.

Kanada Ten
03-26-2011, 09:35 PM
Hm, I think if you use the r-stick for aiming you need to use L1, 2 or 3 for jumping. It's really difficult to aim while jumping now, and that's like a huge part of the strategy for clearing the birds for the fish jump. (Actually, I jumped off the level for the first time because it assumed that I wanted to "jump down" when I was holding the l-stick down to aim - old habit - and jumped.)

And, I figured out why you shouldn't value my opinion too much on certain issues: It's because I've played the level so many times. I wasn't waiting for it to respawn because I was restarting whenever I died for the most part. Plus, I've named all the enemies, and even certain areas. This intimate zen like connection has formed between me and the level, making it hard to judge certain changes as good or bad. I mean, I hate the r-stick aiming, now, but is it because it's bad, or because it's a change? I don't know. Am I having trouble with Fat Fist Three because of a change or because I'm squinting too hard?

zabel99
03-27-2011, 12:44 AM
Yes, that is the big drawback with the new change in controls so that the right analog stick aims. Now you gotta use the thumb for both aiming and jumping, which does make jump and shoot harder. Fat Fist Three haven't changed, but they might indeed be harder if you were used to fighting them before by making small jumps while shooting. (what other names have you come up with? XD)

I dunno, I was reluctant to make this change but several players suggested it would be better. Nor do I want to change the jump button since people are used to jumping with X. I could stiffen the arm so that jumping doesn't make the arm go limp and reset your aim, but I kinda like the arm having a limpy feel.
Perhaps I could get some feedback from other players who have tried it before the change?

Btw, was the final boss fair? Now that the wall jump is gone, the only way to get back up without dying is to hop onto the punching fist and from there to the ledge, which might be a little tricky. (But if you're trying to ace the level, of course, you can take out the weak spots on the top before you jump down so that you don't have to go back up)

Well, the slow respawn problem should be completely gone now. :-) Someone who ran into the same bug when making his own level showed me a workaround for the problem.

Kanada Ten
03-28-2011, 02:39 PM
Yeah, the respawn is instant now - which creates its own issue: I spawn right on top of enemies that kill me. Honeyhead Grizzly killed me when I tried to late jump him, and then killed me a few times more as I spawned on top of his backflip. Also, it killed me at the end eject, which it's never done before; don't know if the timing is off now or something else... [edit] Mm, also again, the camera zooms in on the ninja when you drop the Spitsquids on the bridge, and then has trouble zooming out.

Alphagaia
03-28-2011, 09:20 PM
I LOVE these kind of games! I liked the premise, the execution is nice, but I feel the gameplay still needs some finetuning.

-sometimes the camera does not show enough of the screen to avoid deaths. Almost at the start when I am forced to jump some platforms, some birds are offscreen and I jumped right into them. If enemies exist above me, the screen should show them.

-when I push left and the left stick is not entirely to the left the ninja moves right instead.

-i killed a lot of enemies ofscreen, maybe give the shuricans a little logic so I cant kill enemies while they are ofscreen?

- the fishes are a bit slow moving on the bridge. Could you speed them up a bit?

-the dragon sequence had the left of the screen showling a green wall with enemies emitted on screen. Was this intentional? It looks a little sloppy.

-after the dragon bit, i died lots of times by fire coming from above I had no time to avoid.

-the boss I had to kill via reflecting shot did not attack at all and the shuricans dont make it if keep the fire button pressed. Maybe up the amount of shuricans whgich can be onscreen? Could you give him some attacks?

-the last boss had a few spots I had to shoot that were ofscreen. Is he supposed to go up and down?

-maybe animate the ninja a bit? Perhaps make him a sackbot or animate him using holorams?

This might sound all very negative. I just want to help because I really liked this level, but feel its just a little unfinished yet.

F4F is you feel like it, my level is in my signature. My level is a platform/shooter as well, so I'm hoping you will like it! :)

DragonHunterEx
03-29-2011, 03:38 PM
hey it was fun to play your level :)

the idea is great and as far as i can say everything worked fine.
There was a variation in gameplay because of the different sections which is always good to have.
My favourite part was the dragon ride, really liked it :)

Two things i would suggest though:
- it was hard to beat the dogs and all the birds which appeared at the beginning, maybe make the dogs a bit weaker or change the amount of birds spawning
- the last boss had two weakpoints that were off-screen, you should make them visible

All in all it was very enjoyable so keep it up :)

zabel99
03-29-2011, 10:41 PM
Thanks much for the feedback, guys.

Hmm, I didn't realize there were still that many issues in the level. And it sounds like a lot of them are camera issues, ugh. I HATE camera issues. Camera issues were the hardest thing about making this level. Looks like I need to head back to the shop and see what I can do about some of these, but I dunno how much more of a headache I'm willing to give myself lol. I definitely appreciate every suggestion tho.

You shouldn't see a green wall on the dragon sequence; that sounds like another camera-related bug I gotta fix.

Oh, and I have an idea for the controls. Maybe if I allow both the L-stick AND R-stick to aim?
edit: Went ahead and implemented.

edit:


-when I push left and the left stick is not entirely to the left the ninja moves right instead.
This is baffling me. All I did was hook the controllinator output to a directional mover. I don't understand why it's making the ninja move right instead of left when you tap left lightly :( Could it have something to do with friction settings??

edit:
Actually, the signal wasn't going directly to the mover. It was going through an AND gate, and that apparently was causing the glitch. Don't ask me why. I've fixed this problem and some of the other issues.

Kanada Ten:
I don't know what else I can do about about respawn deaths, but since you have unlimited lives and now respawn immediately, it should only be a problem if you're trying to ace the level, so let me instead tell you something you're not supposed to know:
When respawning you can jump before your feet have touched the ground
I've also increased the movement speed while jumping so it should be easier to jump over Honeyhead Grizzly.

Alphagaia
03-30-2011, 01:03 PM
To counter instant death traps I gave my sackbot 5 seconds of invulnerability in my level. I think this will benefit you as well!

Simply place a tag on your Ninja. Place some logic on your spawnpoint with a tagsensor which turns on a timer for 5 seconds when the tag is NOT present (in other words, the ninja is killed). The next logix should turn of the kill-triggers for 5 seconds but still kill the enemies when they touch the ninja. For bosses you should just turn of their deathtouch.

zabel99
03-30-2011, 10:53 PM
^ I do have something similar to that in place. The problem was a couple specific bosses where you can land on top of them after respawning and die if you don't get off them cleanly, which depending on the position of the checkpoint and the enemy at the time of your respawn can be a little iffy. But I don't think it happens often and you do get unlimited lives so I'm not too concerned about it.

Alphagaia
03-31-2011, 01:17 PM
Well, its your level and you should do as you see fit, but I don't think people will like dying a few times in a row because of this, even when they have unlimited lives...

zabel99
03-31-2011, 11:57 PM
I could be wrong but I don't think they're dying a few times in a row..
But you know, you gotta make decisions on how best to spend your time. I've already devoted a large amount of time to addressing respawn problems and quite a lot of that was because of bugs that weren't my fault. My patience has limits (especially when the level is not being played by the community at large).

Alphagaia
04-01-2011, 12:31 PM
Yeah I can understand you feeling bitter about the lacks of plays.

-Here are some things you could try: add a better discription in your levelname: I think a lot of people don't know what to expect from your levelname alone. Something like ( a platform shooter) would help a great deal.
-add more pictures, only one picture doesn't help you sell your level.
-listen to critique: this one is very important: i made a long list with improvemets, but you hardly did anything to adress them.
-F4F a lot! You can also try other levels and give feedback. If they have F4F in theur name there's is a very good chance they will return the favor.
-make a new level! use the knowledge from this level to make an even better level and promote it! The more good levels you have the more likely people will play them! Dont give up just because one level does not get a lot of plays!

zabel99
04-02-2011, 12:20 AM
I'm not bitter. Thanks to the LBPC community this is the most played level I've ever made lol. And I don't think you have any idea how much F4F I've done.

Adding that information to the description is not a bad idea, but isn't that what tags are for? If the "Shooter" tag doesn't convey that a level is a "Shooter" then I'm not sure what the point of tags is.

Eh? I did listen to your critique on the day you gave it and spent that day updating the level. Here, I'll go through your list:


-sometimes the camera does not show enough of the screen to avoid deaths. Almost at the start when I am forced to jump some platforms, some birds are offscreen and I jumped right into them. If enemies exist above me, the screen should show them.

Because the automatic scrolling system allows free non-automatic vertical movement, this is a difficult issue to address. The best I can think of is try not to have too many enemies fly overhead. I reduced the number of birds in the beginning, and removed one particular cheap bird that used to fly in from the right side and drop rocks.


-when I push left and the left stick is not entirely to the left the ninja moves right instead.

Fixed. (although I still don't understand why the AND gates were behaving that way)


-i killed a lot of enemies ofscreen, maybe give the shuricans a little logic so I cant kill enemies while they are ofscreen?

Shuriken logic is a good idea and I'll probably add it later, but I think the only enemies that die off screen now are birds, which can be killed very fast, so if I wanted to eliminate the problem completely I would almost have to make them spawn on-screen. I did discover a bug I had overlooked in the bridge part where there are a few spitsquids that were dying before the player ever sees them.


- the fishes are a bit slow moving on the bridge. Could you speed them up a bit?

I doubled their speed.


-the dragon sequence had the left of the screen showling a green wall with enemies emitted on screen. Was this intentional? It looks a little sloppy.

I wasn't able to figure out what you meant by this. I looked through the level and there aren't any green walls. Did you mean grey walls? Were they in the upper left part of the screen? Was it before or after clouds started appearing?


-after the dragon bit, i died lots of times by fire coming from above I had no time to avoid.

Can't do much about this. I sunk hours into trying to make the camera work better in this particular sequence and in the end I just couldn't improve it. Again, it's a problem that comes with the horizontal scrolling being automatic while the vertical scrolling is free. I guess I could give the fire more anti-gravity so that it falls slower.


-the boss I had to kill via reflecting shot did not attack at all and the shuricans dont make it if keep the fire button pressed. Maybe up the amount of shuricans whgich can be onscreen?

I doubled the number of shuriken that can be on screen.


Could you give him some attacks?

He's not really supposed to be a traditional boss fight, but more like a puzzle. I was worried some players would have trouble figuring out that they need to kill him by ricocheting the shurikens so I didn't want there to be any other threats in that room.


-the last boss had a few spots I had to shoot that were ofscreen. Is he supposed to go up and down?

He doesn't move up and down. The two weak spots are visible if you jump up from the middle ledge (the ledge you enter from). You can partially see one of them as soon as you enter, so I don't think it's unfair. To get back up to the middle ledge from the bottom, you have to jump onto the punching arm, which might be a little tricky.


-maybe animate the ninja a bit? Perhaps make him a sackbot or animate him using holorams?

That would require a major overhaul and imo would not necessarily be an improvement. Besides, I want to get back to doing your last piece of advice--making my next level :)

Alphagaia
04-02-2011, 12:42 AM
Good to know you changed those things, mate. I'll play it again soon :)

placing descritiontags in your name as well will help extra when players search on text, look at it on this forum, or just randomly find the name of your level, buts its not vital.