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Macnme
03-23-2011, 12:26 PM
It has come to my attention (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1368467/I-met-granddad--wings-Colton-Burpo-went-heaven-speaks-relatives-book-Heaven-For-Real.html)that there is a book currently on the American best sellers list - Heaven is for Real - purporting to be an account of a trip to heaven.

Straight away, I can think of dozens of inaccuracies and inconsistencies with the kids account - as well as there being deep suspicion about the authenticity of his claims thanks to his parents backgrounds.

Please, for the sake of my sanity, tell me that it's in the "fiction" section?

Are people in America 'really' this gullible? or is it just how they're portrayed in our media?

Aya042
03-23-2011, 04:00 PM
Please, for the sake of my sanity, tell me that it's in the "fiction" section?

"Fiction" is in the eye of the beholder. IMO, all books are fiction, but YMMV.



Are people in America 'really' this gullible? or is it just how they're portrayed in our media?

Kind of a sweeping generalization considering less than 0.3% of the population bought it, so if you choose to base the definition of "gullible" on whether or not they bought this book, it would seem that 99.7% of Americans aren't.

Are people in Scotland 'really' this trolly? or is it just how they're portrayed by you? ;)

EinRobot
03-23-2011, 05:20 PM
"people in America" is invalid. The way the USA was shaped and the whole "melting pot" thing pretty much makes those generalizations laughable.

Macnme
03-23-2011, 05:21 PM
"All books are fiction" -
Kind of a sweeping generalisation... what about an Atlas?

Fair Point that the majority of Americans have not bought it... but what it does say, is that of the Americans that can read and buy books, they are buying and reading Heaven is for Real?!! ... For REAL?! :rolleyes:

"Are people in Scotland 'really' this trolly?"
"Trolly" is in the eye of the beholder. But yeah, pretty much ;) :p

EinRobot
03-23-2011, 05:24 PM
Are you saying that the US is the only place people that disagree with you exist? It does seem like you are trollin and taking a shot at us. But hey guess what, I already know that gullible people exist in my country as well as yours, and his, and hers.

Macnme
03-23-2011, 05:28 PM
A book like that would never make it on the best sellers list in the UK.

Forget the "are Americans gullible", I'll rescind the statement - What I really wanted to know was wether this was sold in the fiction or the non-fiction section in bookshops?

Testudini
03-23-2011, 05:37 PM
My local library's site says Non-Fiction, and that it's a biography.

Macnme
03-23-2011, 05:45 PM
My local library's site says Non-Fiction, and that it's a biography.

!!!

I was about to go off on one, but then I took a deep breath :)

Book classification is a bit of a strange one to be honest.
Someone recounting a dream for instance, is recounting a 'real' imagining that they 'really did' imagine - even if what they are recounting is purely from their imagination.

But then again, it's patent B$ what is being recounted - his description of Jesus fits perfectly with the European interpretation of Jesus that surfaced some thousand years after the time of Jesus... and surprise surprise - he looked European.
If there 'was' actualy a guy called Jesus who did exist in Nazereth 2011 years ago - then he would have looked Arabic, and the men of that era and region were clean shaven with short hair - rather than the long haired/bearded version of Jesus that people keep seeing in their Toast (America again!).

But I remember a companion Map of Ankh Moorpork (The fictional capital city of Terry Pratchetts Discworld) was being sold in the Non-Fiction section - purely because it was a map - even if the map was of a fictional place :rolleyes:

Syroc
03-23-2011, 05:56 PM
http://gyazo.com/c9a15d3805ef702fcfbcaea30e84b7ce.png

EinRobot
03-23-2011, 05:58 PM
I personally don't believe organized religion, as historically it has been used as a tool to control the masses, but just for the halibut I would point out that just because he (allegedly) appeared to this boy as European would not be the point I would use to invalidate it and further my "hattin on Christianity" campaign. Heaven, if it did exist, could exist in a completely non tangible way. I say this because nobody has ever gotten lost and would up running out of gas in Heaven. So it to me would be similar to a dream state anyway, and silly things like visual appearances are subject to weird interpretations.

alexgangsta4
03-23-2011, 06:08 PM
It has come to my attention (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1368467/I-met-granddad--wings-Colton-Burpo-went-heaven-speaks-relatives-book-Heaven-For-Real.html)that there is a book currently on the American best sellers list - Heaven is for Real - purporting to be an account of a trip to heaven.

Straight away, I can think of dozens of inaccuracies and inconsistencies with the kids account - as well as there being deep suspicion about the authenticity of his claims thanks to his parents backgrounds.

Please, for the sake of my sanity, tell me that it's in the "fiction" section?

Are people in America 'really' this gullible? or is it just how they're portrayed in our media?

Nope; Heaven is a theory and doesn't mean that it exists... He is crazy, I know the answer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wrs-eTVqZE

Mama, we all go to Hell...

Sehven
03-23-2011, 06:27 PM
Just because people bought the book doesn't mean they're gullible--they may simply be curious. Also, as Aya said, even a best seller is only bought by a small percentage of the population so even if they all bought it and completely ate up the account, it's still very few people. As for Americans being gullible vs. the media, I'd say it's some of both. There certainly are plenty of gullible people in America and everywhere else, but at times the media kind of reports what the people think with a slant regardless of what the people actually think... though certainly not to the degree that conspiracy theorists like to think they do.

As for whether his account is accurate, if it were me and I had been to heaven and back, that would be a sacred experience to me that I would only share with the right people under the right circumstances. Certainly I wouldn't publish it in a book--that kind of amounts to casting your pearls before swine. So yeah, I doubt that it's true. But that's just my opinion as somebody who hasn't read the book or even a synopsis of it, so not exactly an informed opinion.

Macnme
03-23-2011, 06:29 PM
So, there are two competing theories here.

Either god is very real, and appears to you in which ever manner you would imagine they would appear. For Christians that would be Jesus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus), Muhammad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad) for Muslims, for Hindus that would be Vishnu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vishnu), or Buddha (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gautama_Buddha) for Buddhist, or Emperor Haile Selassie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haile_Selassie_I#Rastafari_Messiah) for Rastafarians, L Ron Hubbard/Aliens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Ron_Hubbard#Rise_of_Scientology) for Scientologists, or The Flying Spaghetti Monster for Pastafarians, or Yoda for Jedis.

Or

It's all Imaginary, and you are imagining your religious experience in the manner in which your brain can convince you that it is real.

Now, in all probability - Which one is the more likely theory?

Did the boy really go to heaven? or did he imagine it?
I guess that's the gullibility test.



@Sehven;
I do believe the UK has quite alot of an anti-american sentiment in the media - but it is not deliberate or malicious. It's slow and insipid. We are constantly fed the stereotype of the fat(bodied and headed) gun toting, religious fanatic. Just as (from the british perspective) we consider that American media has quite an anti-british flavour when we are portrayed (usually hideously ugly with bad teeth (http://www.guardian.co.uk/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-22429,00.html))[despite the two countries being the best of friends].
But stereotypes exist for a reason - even if no single person truely conforms to the stereotype (except those that do :rolleyes: )

Sehven
03-23-2011, 06:58 PM
Who says those are the only two theories? I've always believed that God and Jesus have a specific appearance--I'd describe it but I've never seen them myself. Why is it that when a person wants to debunk something they always try to break it down into a simple "It's either A or B" situation? Who are you to decide those are the only two options?

As for stereotypes, I had only become aware of the British "teeth" sterotype when Austin Powers came out and even then I thought it was a sterotype of the '60s, not the British. I only heard about the British part of it a few years ago in an article that analyzed a handful of stereotypes and why they're ridiculous. Most of the stereotyped portrayals of the British I've seen in America have been the well-mannered intellectual type (Rupert Giles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Giles)) or otherwise stand-up, classy types. I guess they're portrayed as stammering nerds or weaklings fairly often too, so there is some negativity there.

As for Americans, we lost our right to be offended at stereotypes when we invented "reality TV." "Americans are so dumb." "No we're not, we're awesome." "Dude. Jersey Shore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_Shore_%28TV_series%29)." ".... yeah, you're right. We suck."

Syroc
03-23-2011, 07:04 PM
Pretty sure that Buddha is not seen as a god and that Buddhism is a non-theistic religion. Mohammad was a prophet.

Not that it matters in this discussion. :)

EinRobot
03-23-2011, 07:07 PM
I know you have to climb a stairway and knock on a door or something.

Rabid-Coot
03-23-2011, 07:33 PM
Fake - kids of that age do 1 page of poorly written work on their experience not 192

OmegaSlayer
03-23-2011, 07:38 PM
Heaven doesn't exist...
Do you want a proof?
Repent of your sins, go to a priest then go play football in the middle of an highway.
Then discover that it's all a lie.

Voltergeist
03-23-2011, 07:42 PM
LBPC: Where it's perfectly alright to attack an entire group of people through sweeping generalizations, BUT BY GOD DON'T CALL ANY PARTICULAR USER NAMES. That would just be uncalled for!

Aya042
03-23-2011, 07:47 PM
Kind of a sweeping generalisation... what about an Atlas?

Considering the Earth is constantly changing, any atlas is gonna be incorrect by the time it's published. :p



...what it does say, is that of the Americans that can read and buy books, they are buying and reading Heaven is for Real?!!

That's probably just down to an excellent marketing campaign, Mr. McXenophobe. :p

But I guess it doesn't really matter, since this thread was clearly just a ploy for you to take yet another swipe at organized religion.

Why does it bother you so much what other people believe? Frankly, you ought be supportive of those whose religions tell them it's wrong to punch you in the face. :p

Syroc
03-23-2011, 07:50 PM
BlueBulletBill: Where hyperbole is always better than a measured response.

moonwire
03-23-2011, 07:55 PM
Why does this reminds me so much of a certain Marjoe Gortner? :rolleyes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marjoe_Gortner

Voltergeist
03-23-2011, 07:57 PM
BlueBulletBill: Where hyperbole is always better than a measured response.

If I'm being hyperbolic, then it's a result of months of watching Mac push buttons with no action taken against him. In every thread involving religion, Macnme has acted in ways that go far beyond anything Inan ever did. And yet, who's the one permabanned? Is the position of the LBPC staff really that insulting an entire group of people is better than the occasional curse word or trolling? Because that's what the evidence points to.

Rabid-Coot
03-23-2011, 08:10 PM
http://assets2.qypecdn.net/uploads/photos/0024/0202/10521384_gallery2.jpg

I could go to Heaven right now but I don't have enough money at the moment.

Jack Thompson
03-23-2011, 08:13 PM
http://gyazo.com/c9a15d3805ef702fcfbcaea30e84b7ce.png

For a second there I thought that was the actual cover of the book.

moonwire
03-23-2011, 08:44 PM
If I'm being hyperbolic, then it's a result of months of watching Mac push buttons with no action taken against him. In every thread involving religion, Macnme has acted in ways that go far beyond anything Inan ever did. And yet, who's the one permabanned? Is the position of the LBPC staff really that insulting an entire group of people is better than the occasional curse word or trolling? Because that's what the evidence points to.

I take the side of Macnme, it is true he can be somewhat extreme, and I must say some elements I would question of what he wrote, but as good as every post that I have read from him that concerns about religion contains hard to oppose facts which you really can't walk around, unless proven wrong and that means of course that some opinions must be changed I believe...
Then there is stuff like the atlas example above ^-^ technically, if you really have to go into details you could never get a 100% correct downscale with those maps, plus there may be unknown features... But as a map in general it works and if we look away from the fact that it is not completely accurate it will still guide you to the right place if you use it properly (somewhat) and it would show how the world WAS, making it more like historical fact than fiction.

Jovuto
03-23-2011, 08:53 PM
Mama, we all go to Hell...

Hey I know where that quote is from! :D
*cough*

Anyway I dont see what the big deal is, some people believe in heaven and hell, I personally dont, but you have to have respect for people who are religious. :/

OmegaSlayer
03-23-2011, 08:56 PM
Still no maps for heavens...
Someone wrote 10 kind of directions on some stones but that's all too messy and boring to follow. :p
Then no one took pics, and the place could really be disappointing.
Bah, I think I'll pick Valhalla if one day I'm forced to take the trip. :)

Jokes aside I find hard to believe a book written by a man whose surname is Burp, with a gangsta inhaling his dope stuff on the cover...

JonnysToyRobot
03-23-2011, 09:09 PM
Guys, taking little jabs at people is fine but there's a point where it becomes bullying.

Bullying is bad, m'kay?

OT: Dunno, more people bought the Da Vinci Code and that, being the worst book every written ever, is more worrying to me.

moonwire
03-23-2011, 09:09 PM
Still no maps for heavens...
Someone wrote 10 kind of directions on some stones but that's all too messy and boring to follow. :p
Then no one took pics, and the place could really be disappointing.
Bah, I think I'll pick Valhalla if one day I'm forced to take the trip. :)

Jokes aside I find hard to believe a book written by a man whose surname is Burp, with a gangsta inhaling his dope stuff on the cover...

I am preeeeetty sure that gangsta cover is just a joke :p

CyberSora
03-23-2011, 09:16 PM
I am preeeeetty sure that gangsta cover is just a joke :p

What are you talking about? That cover's for realz dawg.

http://roflrazzi.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/d38156e0-16b7-44ba-990f-328757598edc.jpg

OmegaSlayer
03-23-2011, 09:19 PM
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Heaven-Real-Little-Astounding-Story/dp/0849946158/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1300915127&sr=8-1
LOL, I'm slow on jokes lately...

Sehven
03-23-2011, 10:02 PM
This thread wasn't especially nice to begin with but it's gotten just plain nasty.