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View Full Version : Yes, use F4F Are we there Yeti?



CommToad
07-07-2011, 10:59 AM
G'day all,

I had a decent response with a normal post, now to delve into the F4F waters. This level is a mix of puzzle and platformer and even has a story. I took me about 5-6 month of on and off work to get it done, but I think it is worth the wait.

Hope you enjoy it!
http://lbp.me/v/z5y83j

biorogue
07-07-2011, 01:45 PM
this sounds interesting. already queued. do you have any pictures you could post. might help in enticing people to play

CommToad
07-07-2011, 10:25 PM
I need to try that. I know I can take pictures, move them to the pictures section on my PS3, but have not been able to find out how to move them to my PC so I can post them. Any suggestions?

zzmorg82
07-07-2011, 11:00 PM
You can use an USB stick, copy the pictures on it, then stick the usb into your PC, then upload it :P

Euthymios
07-08-2011, 05:09 AM
I assume the F4F idea is geared towards players who need feedback on one of their levels in return. I do not fit this criteria, as I have not yet made any levels, but I would most definitely like to provide feedback on this level. I'll give it a shot as soon as I can.

EDIT: Okay, having played through one time, I have the following things to say:
*I genuinely enjoyed the level.
*The way the lighting changed from area to area was quite nice.
*I found the level to be aesthetically pleasing.
*The musical track selection seemed to fit with the level in all areas.
*The dialogue was well written, and the story was charming, albeit straightforward.
*Nice use of colors in most areas.

Judging purely by first impressions, this is what I believe you could improved on:
*Level flow. (getting from point A to point B smoothly without hiccups induced by the level design *and I don't mean puzzles, challenges, etc.*)
*Attention to detail. (more scenery would have been nice to sculpt the landscape and further immersion)
*Sense of direction. (the level seemed to lack a true sense of direction, and although I knew I was on a mission to find a pickaxe, I had no clue where I was going *I realize that you wanted the player to do some exploring, but indicating the "right" path does not necessarily mean curious players won't traverse a "wrong" path or two*
*Wall of text. (the dialogues were well written and very descriptive, but sometimes the last thing a player wants is to read through paragraph-long text bubbles *in other words: for the amount of text bubbles spread throughout the level, you may want to be a bit more concise and less descriptive*)

For the most part, the hindrances I have listed do not outway the goodness of this level. In its current state, I would give it a 3.5/5. However, I can see me easily bumping that score up a good 0.3-0.5 points if you tweaked it a bit to improve the level flow, and ironed out a few irritating quirks. I will make sure to point out and discuss these irritations/quirks after two or three more playthroughs, and I will also provide advice for the purpose of improving the flow of the level.

That is all for now. I'll be sure to post again when I get the chance to play through the level a few more times.

DoodVogeltje
07-08-2011, 10:15 PM
Actually, a lot of my remarks have already been mentioned by Euthymios.

The level was genuinely nice to play, although it did feel a little unpolished. It had a "first level" feel to it, but in a good way. For a first level, it is a very nice attempt. You will see that, when you make another level, you notice that you're getting the hang of it and with enough patience and devotion, you'll turn into a fine creator in no time.

My biggest complaint is that from the beginning it is not clear where to go to. The only thing I find when going right is a cat and some object I later found out to be the key. To the left is nothing but a closed gate. The only clue is the aforementioned wall of text you have to endure that the strange object near the cat is actually the key. It would've made more sense if the key would almost be in sight when the man speaks of it. This is a classic rookie mistake and it's easy to tell that this demonstrates your skills of about 5-6 months ago. Further on in the level, I can clearly notice that you've greatly improved over time. As for now, I've got some minor issues left.

- At the end of the cave, you need to solve some kind of color puzzle to open a door. The color code however is maybe a bit out of reach. People don't know that you have to use the wheel to get to the secret area to unlock the code. Especially when there is an elevator in the way, you can't expect them to backtrack all the way to that wheel and go to a supposedly secret area to memorize the code. Luckily there is an easy way to solve this, as you only have to point out to go to the left instead of the right, while riding the wheel.
- Maybe you could include more checkpoints overall in the level
- The lighting tool in the hole with the bananas kind of ruined the level for me. The lift only goes up when the bananas are in the area and after you accidentally fall down and respawn, the dark lighting doesn't reset. So the level stayed dark for me, for the remainder of the time.

I hope this feedback was useful for you. Keep on fiddling with Create mode and one day I'm sure you'll turn out to be a fine creator.

CommToad
07-08-2011, 11:11 PM
Thank you both for the detailed feedback. I was trying to not lead the player too much, but have a couple ideas to help in areas you mention. One idea is to move the key, as suggested, or use the camera to hint at the direction to go to find the key.

I thought that the hidden area in the cave (where the code is) was hinted at by showing the top of a pile of score bubbles and a prize bubble when you run from the elevator to the stairs near the colored switches.

As for that banana bag...that gave me the most trouble of anything in this level. Do you have any suggestions on how to handle that, or the lighting issue?

Thanks!

leos_bin
07-09-2011, 12:17 PM
Thanks for the feedback on my level, sorry for the late reply.

I enjoyed your level, I thought the story was amusing and the platforming good. The backgrounds were very short on detail and a bit dull. It could also use a few more checkpoints to avoid repitition.

The only real problem was that I got fell down where the bananas came from and was stuck, when I then committed suicide the lighting stayed dark after I respawned and I had to backtrack a long way to get the lighting back to the correct level.

I also got stuck in and under the Yeti's hut.

Overall a good level: :star::star::star::star:

Phosphorus15
07-09-2011, 02:12 PM
I tried this level out a while ago. Don't know why I haven't posted on it yet. :P

The pros:
•The idea of the level was brilliant! I enjoyed the plot of the level
•The Yeti looked pretty awesome, along with all the other characters.
•The obstacles were fun, I really liked 'em.

The cons:
•There was a lot of just plain 'ol backgrounds. Try adding in some variety into it.
•Try using the corner edit tool. It's one of the best tools in the game.
•The lifts for me were a little too slow for me. Speed them up a little, and use the directional setting on the switches you're using so if someone were to die halfway up, it would go right back down to where it was originally.

Overall, nice job with the level! I gave it :star::star::star:.

Hockeysteve54
07-14-2011, 11:08 PM
There's a small lip at the top of the hill that you need to get the key over that causes the key to get snagged.

The caves are perfectly squared, which doesn't look right for a cave. Try making the floors and wall of the caves a little bumpy to give it a better cave look.

Add controls for the elevator. I had to restart because the lift went up without me and I could reach to get on it. I also had to restart a second time because I died and was respawned in an area where the elevator had already gone up.

lisatiffany
07-15-2011, 02:10 AM
kay well i just played it so i'll give you some feedback too. before i played it i just looked at the name of the level and not the feedback so i got stuck big time on the colour puzzle but after a while i got the right combination by a complete fluke, most people i think would head right i didn't even know you could go left so some indication of the extra option would definitely help the player. i never got to finish it in the end because when i gave the guy the bananas nothing happened so i jumped back down to the elevator to see if there were more and it just left me sitting in the dark. if there were some controls perhaps a switch on the elevator then people wouldn't get stuck down there. the caves and the exterior were a little square in places, if you blended the edges and such into one another it would look more natural and less boxy. all that aside it was an enjoyable level with some fun and interesting ideas. the lighting was probably one of my favorite parts on the level, it fit the scene perfectly and really added a nice touch to the surroundings.. just a shame i never got to meet the yeti in the end = )

http://i3.lbp.me/img/ft/093dcd0ed9cca247603bd90bd262880c598c3a5d.jpg
next time i'm going left

Angelgozen
07-15-2011, 02:20 AM
I shall try! Que me up baby xd

CommToad
07-15-2011, 02:45 AM
Thank you all for the feedback. That whole part with the banana bag has given me fits from the beginning. As soon as I am able to update the level I will post here again.

romancrisis
07-20-2011, 11:31 PM
Tried it some time ago, and then tried it again recently. The first time I played it, I was able to beat the level.

But as for my second playthrough, I encountered a glitch with the elevator after the huge spinning wheel with lights attached to it. I accidentally got on the front layer and the elevator started moving up without me. Then it just got stuck up to a point where I can't reach it. Instead of using a proximity sensor, you could try adding a 2-way or 3-way switch to it as to avoid the elevator from moving up without the player inside.

As for the platforming in the level, I actually had fun with it, even though the somewhat poor lighting (I don't know if it was intended) inside the cave area made it hard to see some of the traps.

Overall, it was a decent platformer with a very simple design.

CommToad
07-21-2011, 11:12 AM
Tried it some time ago, and then tried it again recently. The first time I played it, I was able to beat the level.

But as for my second playthrough, I encountered a glitch with the elevator after the huge spinning wheel with lights attached to it. I accidentally got on the front layer and the elevator started moving up without me. Then it just got stuck up to a point where I can't reach it. Instead of using a proximity sensor, you could try adding a 2-way or 3-way switch to it as to avoid the elevator from moving up without the player inside.

As for the platforming in the level, I actually had fun with it, even though the somewhat poor lighting (I don't know if it was intended) inside the cave area made it hard to see some of the traps.

Overall, it was a decent platformer with a very simple design.

I've discovered that about elevators, and have a new design planned for all of then as soon as I am able to edit it again. I found a video on YouTube by DEFCON01 that shows how to build an elevator with a control that works very well. Hopefulle within a week or two I will have the level updated.

Nyckolaz
07-23-2011, 09:14 PM
Well, I had a lot of problems to get to the second elevator, as at that spot you're already swimming and can't move between planes, took me a long of time to figure I had to jump to it, thought it was a door that had to be opened and I went back to the entrance :S The flow of the level is reaaally slow, at least for me, and for levels in which the action is kinda slow, you need a lot of detail or visual appeal. As I went really slow through the level seemed to feel it was barred, simple walls and background, (just with a few monsters in the cracks, which was a nice touch btw.)

For the 4th elevator, as I was going to get on it, the sensor switch perceived me and the elevator went without me. I quit the level and didn't really want to try again as I thought it was going to take me forever to get where I was.

Sorry if I'm being to harsh but it's that the way I felt the level, if you'd like to give me feedback try my Morph Temple 1 leve (http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?60412-Morph-Temple)

CommToad
07-28-2011, 12:10 AM
The second elevator, where you are swimming, is on my list of fixes. Something shifted in the level and the water is too deep to walk in. Add that to the bad elevator design and is spells disaster. I've queued up your level and should play it later this week. Thanks for the feedback.

Lordwarblade
07-29-2011, 07:18 PM
There were quite a lot of issues but most have been explained by the posts above me.

Overall it wasn't unpleasant but could really do with a touch up. The cave was much to square and straight you need to make it look more reallalistic with lumps and bumps.
It was quite hard to know where to go at some points as well. I didn't have any issues with the elevators though.

CommToad
07-30-2011, 11:23 AM
Well, update to all those who played and left feedback. I am finally purchasing the Monster Kit and History Kit this weekend so edits are on their way. I will post here when I complete the changes and publish an updated level. Thanks for all the great feedback!

Kanefan
08-01-2011, 01:32 PM
Ok, since you're editing the level, and I have probably played it before you're editing, much of this you've probably already heard before, but I'll say it anyway. Some of it, you probably haven't heard:

First of all, great level! Love the idea that the yeti is actually nice. However the whole Yeti scenario is a blur for me. What he said disappeared too fast, so I didn't get time to actually read it. I'm thinking of what he says when you're walking along with him to his house.

The second prize, after you go left in the huge spinning wheel with the lights, I didn't get. I fell into the hole leading to the correct path before I could collect it, and it didn't follow me either. When I went back to the elevator to collect it, it was still elevated. So prize uncollected.

Which leads me to the elevators. I disagree with romancrisis saying you should use two-way switches or three-way switches. They get in the way of the gameplay unless they're really out of the way. I think you should use winches or pistons which retract when you're not in the elevator. That way, you can always come back to it if you come back to the same place. If not, you're stuck and can't finish the level. Imagine if the elevator went all the way to the top, and you somehow managed to fall down, then you'd have to restart the level. Make a grabbable switch or a proximity switch inside the elevator to give the player complete control of when the elevator goes up, and if not, it goes down. Make one winch/piston underneath the elevator, and one on top. That way, you'll ensure the path of it. You can also make the winches/pistons invisible.

You should also mark the correct path. That way, curious players can explore everything else before going in the correct path. At least i try to explore everything of a level, and there were several places where I was confused whether I should go back to explore or move forward to explore, because I didn't know which path was the "correct" one.

When the yeti head appears behind the ice, you should give only players a glimpse of it. Now it stays there until you go down, and then the yeti won't be creepy. Make it go away, much creepier.

Last, and probably least, change the camera angle when you step on the red switch to turn the platforms. The first time, I didn't understand what that switch did, because I didn't see the platforms, so to ensure smooth level design, show the player what the switch does. The difficulty shouldn't be figuring out what to do next, it should be about the raw challenging aspect.

Another time when I didn't know what to do was when I was back in the village with a banana pickaxe. I grabbed it around a bit, and when I passed the villager I understood, because it initiated his event. One doesn't remember what the initial quest was when you have such a long level in between. Maybe add some reminders about the quest in the level.

Overall, the story is a bit pieced together. There are perhaps a bit too many plots and stuff to wrap your mind around when you're actually concentrating about clearing the level.

It was challenging at times though, I like that. :) And I like that you didn't use those infinite checkpoints, they sometimes ruin the game experience if you ask me. Rather make the level so good that you don't die accidental deaths and give you control over the lives.

xxMATEOSxx
08-02-2011, 07:14 PM
OK, so I finally got around to playing. I mostly have similar things to say, building on other peoples posts. Definitely add more detail to the cave section of the level and make the elevators less problematic. Have the sensors set to direction instead of on/off if you do nothing else. If you have the mgs pack, the spotlight is the best tool for this. The only other thing is the speech bubble for the various characters. When a particualr speech is no longer relevant, it should not appear anymore. For instance, when you bring the guys bananas to the surface, he should stop asking you to go get them. The same goes for the character who asks you to retrieve the pickaxe.
I thought it was pretty clever how you find the pickaxe. At first, I was thinking "whats with this random guy with his bananas" but then it made sense when he talks about the other one he found.
The only other thing is the light puzzle to open the door. I happened to go the direction to see the clue but there was really no true indication that it was important. I know you don't want to make it too easy on the player but there's a difference between leading players and showing them what to do. I don't know, a player who didn't go that way might feel cheated by that puzzle, even if they happen to guess it right.
Overall it was a pretty good level. Once we get to the yetis cave it looks really nice with a clean presentation. The platforming was fairly easy but still enjoyable. I look forward to seeing any new levels you release.

Garak101
08-02-2011, 11:03 PM
Since you played my level and left feedback, I am returning feedback for yours.

Okay, I played this level and a lot of the same issues popped up that other reviewers left. Difficult to navigate or where to go in some parts. Elevators sometimes leaving you stranded. I got stuck at the banana guy. I accidentally fell back down the hole after giving him the bananas and the elevator did not come and get me.

As for the design, this was a good start. Good story behind it. You definately need to add more visuals as a lot of the level was plain. Also, corner editing can help make it look more like a cave instead of just squares and straight lines.

Overall, with a few modifications, this level can become pretty good. A good start for your first level.

Thank you for creating and sharing this level.

CommToad
08-04-2011, 02:36 AM
Good news folks, I picked up LBP2 and now I have access to the DLC I need to fix the level. I've decided to go one step further and rebuild it with the new version since the design tools are more advanced. I already have a number of things I am changing (besides the elevators), that will enhance the story a little. I got most of the ideas from your feedback, and going through the tutorials in LBP2. Thanks for the honest feedback, it's the only way we can make our levels better.

xxMATEOSxx
08-05-2011, 05:36 PM
Hmm, I could have sworn I poseted... Well anyway, I have more or less the same things to say about the level. Just up the visuals for the cave and have the elvevators set to directional instead of on/off. If you have the mgs pack, then the searchlight object is your best bet.
In addtion, it wouldn't hurt to have uneeded magic mouths deactivate once you finish a task. For instance, once you bring up the guy's bananas, he should stop crying about how they're still in the hole, etc.
Other than those, I'd say it's a pretty good level. The snowy enviorments have solid aesthetic appeal. The challanges, while not all that "challanging" are still fun to play. Also I thought the banana guy was a creative touch. At first I was thinking "what's with this random guy" but when he mentions what he found I was like "ooohhh". Anyway, I look foward to playing this again as you make improvements. Keep up the good work.

CommToad
11-05-2011, 08:29 PM
Well, I finally completed part of the rework of this level in LPB2. I say part of the rework since the thermometer got kinda full partway through so I picked a good stopping point. I made some major changes to the detail of the backgrounds, props, and the elevators. Please give it a try and let me know how it is going. Meanwhile, I am working on the second part/finale of the level and will add a level link when it is done.

EnochRoot
11-07-2011, 06:31 PM
Checked out this level the other night and enjoyed it. Obviously I'm playing the revised version that has edited out some of the previous issues.
I like the whimsical storyline involving a rogue yeti, the gameplay is strongly platform based with nice little random elements like using a banana for a key.
Good use of the sackbots and new LBP2 gameplay elements, The level does show it's underlying LBP1 origins.
maybe the second part will be more LBP2 orientated.
good job.

CommToad
11-07-2011, 11:43 PM
Thanks for the feedback. The banana only seems random because the second half of the level isn't there. Also, when you wrote "LBP2 oriented" do you mean using more of the new gadgets like the grabinator, grappling hook, etc? I've done some experimentation with circuit boards, sequencers, and movie cameras. Just trying to think of how to use either the grappling hook or grabinator in part 2.

LittleBigDes
11-09-2011, 03:14 PM
Hi CommToad, played your level 2 days after you republished it and thought I'd let you know that I came across two problems:

http://i4.lbp.me/img/ft/de4a5bea94ae851edf522612c8fc63c19c72fef4.jpg
Here as you can see the door is shut to my right. I dragged the banana to the door to open it and dragged it past the door. I then died by accident at one of the obstacles. When I respawned back the door had shut. This can be quite annoying to players as this forced me to restart your level. I would either add in another checkpoint after the door and before the next obstacle. Or set the door up to only trigger once and stay open once it has been triggered by the player. You can use a counter set to 1 wired to a tag sensor so when the banana is within range of the door (with its corresponding tag) it counts as 1 on the counter making it permananet so it stays open.

http://i1.lbp.me/img/ft/e11d645ea12506addf002f56a02033438f56735f.jpg
Also, at this section it must have been like 10 times or more that the same cut-scene would trigger and play, just from me looking around exploring and trying to find my way around. You can use the same method of a counter set to 1 as a permanant switch so this scene only triggers once.

I hope that helps and I'll be back to give it another go once you've updated it so I can give you more feedback, as I didn't get to finish it.

UPDATE: Here are two examples of me using a counter to act as a permananet switch incase you haven't set one up before or do not know how to do it, these two images from my Flickr account may help :)

Wired to a tag (http://www.flickr.com/photos/littlebigdes/6312067834/)
Wired to a player sensor (http://www.flickr.com/photos/littlebigdes/5833430419/in/photostream)

CommToad
11-09-2011, 09:45 PM
Thanks for the detailed feedback. The cut scene will be easy, just like you described, should have know I would forget one of them. As the the door issue, I need to check my placement of the checkpoint. I was sure I put one after the door. Maybe it isn't triggering because it is on the backmost layer.

CommToad
11-11-2011, 02:39 PM
Updated and published this morning. Moved the checkpoint (after the "secret" door) to the second layer hoping it will trigger easier than before. Also added a counter to the cut scene by the giant wheel so it only triggers once.

For part 2, I started experimenting with the extra layers glitch to see how that would improve the look of the level. Think it is going to be a nice touch overall. If I get good enough with it, I may redo parts of part 1.

Thanks for any and all feedback!

CommToad
11-19-2011, 05:51 PM
I modified the bounce pads in the maze so they do not trigger automatically. Also, tried to reduce the thermo level by simplifying some of the shapes. Used the corner editor to remove corners that the player would not see. Didn't reduce the thermo at all. No biggie, still working on the second part of the level.

kirbyman62
11-21-2011, 06:04 PM
Hi there! thanks for the feedback on my level, here's my retunr feedback. I'm writing this as I play it, so bear with me :)

Intro looks cool, nice buildings. Mice simple story, I like it. Down the mine, lov ethe change in atmosphere. Perhaps some indication that you're on the top floor, I was holding up on the lift for a littlw while. the checkpoint next to the bombs didn't activate autmatically, maybe lower it jsut a little. With the bouncepads going up to the banana, I find it looks much better if you put the bouncepads in the floor (so that the top of the bouncepad is level with the floor) instead of glueing them on top, but it's no big deal. got the banana. I broke it somehow :/

Restarting...

Ok, through the door with the banana. Again, love the change in atmosphere. Maybe set the checkpoint to infiinte, four lives seems a bit unfair considering all the dangers. Ran out of lives.

Restarting...

Back to the samne bit again. Went up the lift. Again with the bouncepads, put them in the ground,. but otherwise the maze was very fun, well done. Finished the maze. I got lost a couple of times, but that's the point of a maze. Spikes were quite difficult, again, I recommend infinite checkpoints.Fell intot he trap with the bombs (>.>). Ran out of lives again at the spikes.

Restarting...

OK, back at the big wheel thing. Love how you've made it so the payer has to backtrack to pull the switch, it was cool going through everything again. Big spinny wheel thing was fun, I wen tleft if that makes any difference. Another trap (:(). Back on the wheel. went the right way this time. I swung on the light for a joke and passed along the whole fire pit, was that ment to happen? The colour bit was confusing, and for some reason the scoreboard doesn't work?

Anywho, that's all. Overall a fun level with some good ideas, but please, please, change the checkpoints. A happy face from me :)

CommToad
11-22-2011, 11:01 PM
Kirbyman, thanks for all the great ideas. I just republished it with the following updates....

- made the bounce pads flush with the ground (now that I've done this, I really like the way it looks compared to them pasted above ground)
- changed the checkpoints on either sides of the big hazards to "double-life" checkpoints (I am not a big lover of infinite checkpoints, takes some of the danger out)
- moved some of the checkpoints lower so they will trigger easier
- freed the scoreboard from the giant block of ice it was frozen in

I don't have a good idea for the elevator floor indicator, that will fit well in the level, so I am leaving that out for now.

CommToad
05-24-2012, 12:28 PM
For anyone who wants a nostalgic level, I republished my original "Are we there Yeti?" level. It was built with LBP1, and contains the entire story. Give it a try and see how the LBP2 makeover made it better.