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Gilgamesh
12-19-2008, 04:20 PM
Since we've lost the ability to alter materials using the "Cow Glitch" in the latest update, I've thought of something useful that could be added to the Create mode.

Put simply, it would be a "Tweak" menu, but for materials. This could give access to the hidden properties of the materials which we could then alter when we really need a special behavior from one of the materials we have.

We could alter :
Weight - The weight of the material, negative values would give something akin to the Peach Floaty.
Durability - How durable the material is to being crushed by other materials.
Traction - How much traction the material has (both extremes being Rubber and Glass).
Static? - Whether the material remains in place (such as Dark Matter).
Dissolve? - Whether the material can be attached to a switch to dissolve it.

I think that would pretty much cover it. The appearance and sound would just remain that of the base material being tweaked.

muttjones
12-19-2008, 04:42 PM
i think this would completely take away the idea of materials and the way they are used in the physics of the game. then material would be just for cosmetic purposes like stickers and decorations.

Gilgamesh
12-19-2008, 04:59 PM
I agree, there is that aspect. Unfortunately I can't think of a middle ground. For instance, allowing the setting of any material as dissolvable basically nils the usefulness of Dissolve material. The same could be said about Dark Matter.

On the other hand, Dissolve is also terribly heavy, so if you want to make a big block of material to dissolve, it will likely crush whatever is under it if it is not glued down. You might also be tempted to use Glass because it is transparent, but not want it to be so slippery.

LFF
12-19-2008, 05:21 PM
Yeah, it would be useful, but the thing about the materials is that you know what you're going to get once you see one, that the metallic material will be heavy, etc.

OverWork
12-19-2008, 05:27 PM
o man really the cow glitch has been fixed. that really does suck i used that all the time.

BassDeluxe
12-19-2008, 05:49 PM
So long as it's done, right, this would be good. I for one am not willing to give up this ability. What I'm thinking of is making a new material you can do this with. That way the other materials wold still have uses other than cosmetic.

Neverynnal
12-19-2008, 10:05 PM
The game is pretty complex as it is. Adding a material editor and setting the weights every time would be royal pain imo. Takes long enough to tinker around with stuff already.

However, a seperate material with this use would be really interesting. Have all the defaults and then have a "material creator". Ooooh that would be amazing. We'd some some really tripped out levels then :hero:

RAINFIRE
12-19-2008, 10:52 PM
i think it would take away from the different materials, being well... different materials, they will lose thier identity as a whole (wow that sound like the entire world, back when you had to go to a certain country or state to experiance the culture and food and stuff, now, everything is in your backyard) I do not mean to offend anyone, but hey look i used to have to go to Philly to get a Philly Cheese Steak, now i just go to the local store or restuarant and pick one up

Cheers!

Conall-Star
12-19-2008, 11:32 PM
the danger with this idea is that it SOUNDS great but if it actually came into being you'd run into problems. LFF already said it exactly like i was going to so i'll just quote him...


Yeah, it would be useful, but the thing about the materials is that you know what you're going to get once you see one, that the metallic material will be heavy, etc.

Bear
12-20-2008, 01:47 PM
No, I don't like this idea, though it isn't terrible. I've never needed to use the Cow Glitch before.

For example, on one of my levels I made sponge float without the cow glitch. You had to swing on this to get to the other side.

All I had to do was make a tiny amount of Dark matter behind the sponge, then glued them and voila, it floats! It's simple, not using the Cow Glitch is possible, you just have to think about how you're going to do it.

LFF
12-20-2008, 02:03 PM
No, I don't like this idea, though it isn't terrible. I've never needed to use the Cow Glitch before.

For example, on one of my levels I made sponge float without the cow glitch. You had to swing on this to get to the other side.

All I had to do was make a tiny amount of Dark matter behind the sponge, then glued them and voila, it floats! It's simple, not using the Cow Glitch is possible, you just have to think about how you're going to do it.

But you can't make slippery sponge, or dissolving metal that way.

Bear
12-20-2008, 03:27 PM
But you can't make slippery sponge, or dissolving metal that way.

You could easily make a thin layer of glass though, and it will go invisible. Attatch those onto the objects.

As for dissolve, just attatch dissolve material onto the metal and it will dissolve it... or add a brain onto it :p

LFF
12-20-2008, 05:39 PM
You could easily make a thin layer of glass though, and it will go invisible. Attatch those onto the objects.

As for dissolve, just attatch dissolve material onto the metal and it will dissolve it... or add a brain onto it :p
And what if you want the player to be able to slip on ice?
And having dissolve material attached to metal will only dissolve the dissolve material. As for brains, you need to directly hit the brain. What if you want the dissolve to be triggered?

KAPBAM
12-20-2008, 06:09 PM
o man really the cow glitch has been fixed. that really does suck i used that all the time.

Oh darn! :( Guess I waited to long to make my freaky level. Wanted to make something that would get you dizzy and wonder where you are cause all the materails are just screwin' with ya xP

EDIT: As for editing materials, yea I don't think I like the idea. It's good to know what is what, the gow glitch IMO was just that, a glitch, fun to exploit, but not what the game should be like all over.

I_Sack_therefore_I_Am?
12-21-2008, 02:21 AM
Materials, as stated before are in LBP for the key purpose of telling the players one thing, its properties. using an editor would add freedom but soon ruin the perspective that material properties gives the game. Materials have properties for a reason. To take away this set standards for the materials would devalue their purpose in the game and change whole aspects of LBP that we love.

Gilgamesh
12-22-2008, 02:14 PM
Well, seems people are pretty divided about this. I'm glad I decided to put that poll up :)

I think both sides can agree though that we could use more materials than we currently have. Not simply new variants of existing materials, but whole new ones too (there are many good suggestions over at the "I wish this material was in it" thread).

I suppose we'll have to wait and see what MM's ultimate decision will be. For now I think the MGS pack will tide me over, but I hope MM decide to give us new materials or a tweak menu soon :idea:.

Elbee23
12-23-2008, 09:44 AM
The one thing I would really push for would be the ability to dissolve any material on command. That's what I mainly used the cow glitch for, to make realistic but noticable walls that did not just look like a badly stickered piece of dissolve.

Other uses were adjusting the weight of objects so things would not tip over, like a crane looking like being made entirely of metal but actually having a light weight neck. It was also handy for removing potential exploits, like ceiling grabs, while keeping everything looking uniform. It certainly had it's uses.

They most likely "fixed" the cow glitch bug because people were making a "cheap deaths", like dark matter that sank so you would fall into a pit of gas below. If you took the dark matter skin and turned it into orange floaty, it looks like normal dark matter until you step on it and start falling. At least, that's my thinking for why they did it... :rolleyes:

Gilgamesh
12-23-2008, 12:31 PM
[...]They most likely "fixed" the cow glitch bug because people were making a "cheap deaths", like dark matter that sank so you would fall into a pit of gas below. If you took the dark matter skin and turned it into orange floaty, it looks like normal dark matter until you step on it and start falling. At least, that's my thinking for why they did it... :rolleyes:

IMO, I don't think they even knew about the cow glitch at all. They may well have changed something in the create mode which had to do with materials or the lethalize tools and inadvertently fixed the cow glitch at the same time.

Bridget
12-24-2008, 01:07 AM
The one thing I would really push for would be the ability to dissolve any material on command. That's what I mainly used the cow glitch for, to make realistic but noticable walls that did not just look like a badly stickered piece of dissolve.

Other uses were adjusting the weight of objects so things would not tip over, like a crane looking like being made entirely of metal but actually having a light weight neck. It was also handy for removing potential exploits, like ceiling grabs, while keeping everything looking uniform. It certainly had it's uses.

They most likely "fixed" the cow glitch bug because people were making a "cheap deaths", like dark matter that sank so you would fall into a pit of gas below. If you took the dark matter skin and turned it into orange floaty, it looks like normal dark matter until you step on it and start falling. At least, that's my thinking for why they did it... :rolleyes:


I agree..... that's what I was using the glitch for as well, was to have dissolvable things that werent just the usual green brick.

That'd be the suggestion I'd like to go with, the idea of being able to make Dissolve look like other things without trying to cover it in stickers.


I do agree that just having any material be able to behave like anything probably wouldnt work so well; it's important to have that "recognizable" aspect to things.