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CYMBOL
10-21-2011, 05:18 PM
We all use that term. We talk about "famous", or "well known" creators.


Yesterday, a stranger in LBP said, "Well, you're a well known and respected creator in the community"... I said, "That's news to me, haha."

I doubt many people outside my friends list, or a handful of people on this site would recognize my name, as for respected, I'd hope my friends appreciate advice I give, other than that... I guess I'm not even sure what that means. So, I appreciate his kind words, but personally, I don't think it applies.

I don't think creators hearts equal being well known. I see people all the time with tons of creator hearts that I've never heard of. And I know many creators with less creator hearts than me, but is consider them much more well known than me. So, to me, I don't consider that a very large factor.


It got me wondering, at what point would you consider a creator well known?

Valeview
10-21-2011, 05:24 PM
Well, in my view if they had an MM pick...and a catchy name without Numbers in it ^^
E.gs: Lockstitch, comphermc
Oooh! And if they post alot...Advertising without spamming....
Also: IF they have more than 3 levels with 1,000 plays each.

That's Just My opinion, ;)

Ostler5000
10-21-2011, 05:49 PM
Y'know, it's funny, as much as I'm used to reading the term, and have used it a couple of times myself, I've honestly never given it much thought as to what qualifies and what doesn't.
My only real idea was 'The LBP players with a crapton of hearts who pop up in my recent activity all the time', but as soon as I thought about that, it occured to me that not everyone will have hearted the individuals I have, and so my definition is really subjective and a not a very good one.

I have little else to contribute to the thread, but it never occured to me before - that's a brilliant question.

TBH - I really don't have an answer. I may need to think that over.


EDIT-
Y'know what, I'm gonna say, I think it has nothing at all to do with in-game activity. All the creators I recognise and remember, are active in some sort of fansite.
I say, it's more about community involvement, which later leads to popularity, rather than just being any good at creating.

Rpg Maker
10-21-2011, 06:00 PM
Known creators are simply creators with ton of publicity and fans. Most have done something really innovative with LBP and became popular for it. Typically, if you have that many fans, then you will have a ton of hearts. But I do agree a ton of hearts, doesn't necessarily mean your well known, but some people defiantly know you lol.

tdarb
10-21-2011, 09:49 PM
Good thread! I was thinking about this the other day when someone mentioned a well known creator that apparently is well known to everyone but me.

It seems that it is all relative. If I mention well known creator X on this site, it is very likely that we would all know who that is because we frequent the same site, and largely have the same frame of reference. If I went to another site, there would be some of the same people recognized as well known, but there would also be a few that some of us here have never heard of, and we would have a few they had never heard of.

I think the term "well known" as applied to creators is just more or less a reference point that we use among our individual circles to create a hierarchy of creators so we can more easily communicate. it's just what people do. We create abstract constructs so that we can categorize things and make sense of the world around us, but it is all completely subjective and relative.

If I had to define what I consider a well known creator, it would be someone who has brought something of value to the community. That could be anything including videos, good levels, music, objects, tutorials, or any number of other things that people find useful.

Dortr
10-21-2011, 11:02 PM
Haha! I saw this thread at work and was waiting all day to throw in my two cents... or rather, dump the piggy bank on it..

Going by the term "well known" you could almost completely base that off of hearts. There are 20 or so creators that are on almost every single person's hearted list.. and that pretty much means that almost everyone knows those few creators, making them pretty well known :p

I'd say there are levels of being "well known" though, with those few creators being at the top. If a player is to go deeper in the community they will start to see other creators predominantly popping into the mix of those few creators. Then there's the tiniest group of people that go real deep to find all the hidden gems throughout the community, which there are several.

There are a few selective groups of creators that really only contribute to each other.. The two biggest being trolls and Mm picks. If you look at the hearted creators, hearted levels and reviews of these groups, they will be filled with levels and creators of their particular group. Now this isn't always the case, but noticeable enough and completely destroys the idea of a community.

I, for one, get infuriated when I see a troll or even someone with no levels with several hundred or 1,000+ hearts, when I, and several others, try incredibly hard to make something of ourselves by being a legitimate creator... It just burns me up..

Now.. still talking about hearts. To me quality is actually better than quantity. I try to be versatile with my levels to try to impress or get the attention of specific creators I admire or respect... if I can get them to even play it. I generally set the bar a bit to high and get angry when I don't get the heart from those creators.. even if they heart the level in question.. but the way I see it, I have 14 more tries to gain their respect :p

I have always wanted to be considered a talented and creative person, especially in something like LBP where I have tons of experience. So I take hearts to heart pretty often :(

One thing i am great at though is getting comments 1,900 :p I have more than most "spammed" "popular" creators and it is hardly spam. :D
Does that make me well known? lol. The funny thing is it's generally a ploy of mine to write a long and personalized comment to a creator, say a few things about their levels, maybe heart them, their levels or write a review in an attempt to give them as much incentive I can to see my levels or respond.. Either are very rare :(

Speaking of the subject.. @Xyphas: I constantly think about how many plays you will get when you release Chrono Chrysalis... and it bums me out :( I can tell you right now it won't be a fraction of what you deserve or measure up to all the work you and your team put in. LBP is not designed for singular epic levels at all.

zzmorg82
10-21-2011, 11:13 PM
Nice thread! But I've always though of a "well known" creator to have an MM pick. Or is everywhere.

EDIT:


and a catchy name without Numbers in it

Silverscorp91 is "well known"

AND WHAT'S WRONG WITH NAMES WITH NUMBERS IN IT HUH!!!? :mad:

schm0
10-22-2011, 12:08 AM
...and a catchy name without Numbers in it ^^

Hey, what's wrong with numbers? Besides the fact they reveal how pathetically old you are? Ahem.

Some other shlub grabbed my moniker long before I could create my own. :(

As to what is considered "well-known", pretty much anyone with one or more memorable MM picks are what I would consider well-known, especially the creators that have been invited to the Creator Jams. Another thing to consider is that people who are well-known to one community may not be to another. I'm sure LBL has their own "famous" creators, as does the official LBP forums, etc.

CYMBOL
10-22-2011, 12:34 AM
Yeah, I checked out another forum recently - and only a couple of names were people I recognized, even though some of them had crowns - and were obviously known by other creators I have heard of, and consider "well known" on this site.

So, yeah - very relative it would appear.

But after the consersation I had with the guy I listed above - I had another with a friend who was showing me his Work In Progress. He has about 6,000+ creator hearts and I would guess that he is well known (not because of his heart count, but because he is one if the best creators I know) - he asked me about my new level and I told him about some issues - and I mentioned someone had made some custom music for me (this person has 9,000+ creator hearts) - I told him the name, and he said, "Never heard of him".

What was funny was that in my mind, I assumed he's say - "Oh yeah, he's on my friends list" - as if for some reason, everyone with high creator heart counts were obviously friends with others. I had to laugh at myself - and got the idea to post this thread. Really made me consider my thought process on the subject. :)

OmegaSlayer
10-23-2011, 05:35 AM
I just want to say one thing
Hearts =/= creativity skills.
Look at Ungreth or Luos, or Antikris (Stellakris) to mention a guy that blows my mind everytime I see some of his not published stuff.

The active creator community is very little compared to the "only players" community, so having hearts stands up much by publishing the right level at the right time and having tons of kids liking it and hearting you.
The creative community has higher standards and they unfortunately are stingy with their hearts.
Back to the kids point, look at the latest MM picks: Ikarus, Angels Of The Sky, Feeding Frenzy...they're insane stuff and they have a really low heart/Yay ratio, just because thety don't appeal to kids.

So...looking into hearts is a bit pointless imho.
I know it's rewarding and it's good to feel acknowledged, but some nice words from friends and fellow creators in the forums is much more worthy :)

Valeview
10-23-2011, 10:57 AM
Schm0, i mean someone with a name like "Cattack8596" that is someone i wouldn't consider well known, i don't mind up to 3 digits in a name ^^

Ungreth
10-23-2011, 01:20 PM
I know it's rewarding and it's good to feel acknowledged, but some nice words from friends and fellow creators in the forums is much more worthy :)

This is exactly how I feel too.

No amount of hearts could ever substitute for some of the great comments I've recieved, such as...


After 15 minutes of trying to piece together a review that accurately describes the sheer, divine excellence of this level, I realise that no review, no matter how well written, will truly do it justice. This is tiers above every other level I've played. *Bows*

or...


is it wrong that this level gave me a bon3r? :D

Federico
10-23-2011, 02:00 PM
You can still be a well known creator by joining a lot of LBP forums, you don't really need the hearts to be honest. You just need the skills of creativity. :)

Rather Tasty
10-23-2011, 03:58 PM
Only the ones who kiss the butts of Media Molecule become famous, my boy.
:rolleyes:
Pucker up.

CYMBOL
10-23-2011, 05:24 PM
Well, I think most people on this forum would agree that heart counts have little to do with the caliber of the creator. I know plenty of people with much fewer hearts than me, and I consider them much better than me. In fact, I usually think most people are better than me. :)

SnipySev
10-23-2011, 06:48 PM
Well, LBP's community is a whimsical thing. And by whimsical I mean filled with kids, haters, trolls and people apparently oblivious enough to think making H4H levels is standard procedure to get hearts. Some creators that should be much more aknowledged than they really are remain in the shadows while a few people who copy, spam, steal and H4H get thousands of hearts. Nah, hearts don't define how good or popular a creator is. I'd value a friend's heart above a thousand of ignorant kiddies' hearts.

And of course being a "well known creator" is completely different than being a "respected creator". Stephanie_Ravens and The_Golden_Ruler are well known, but their reputation couldn't get more infamous.

CENTURION24
10-23-2011, 09:32 PM
If I notice a creator with 10,000 or more hearts to there name, for some reason I tend to remember them.

Valeview
10-23-2011, 09:35 PM
Centuruion..so you remember a H4H'er with 10,000 Hearts? O.o

CYMBOL
10-24-2011, 12:29 AM
If I notice a creator with 10,000 or more hearts to there name, for some reason I tend to remember them.

I notice when someone has a very high heart count, but I in no way remember them because of it.

But that's probably just me. I never head of Steve Big Guns till LBP2. And I had never even heard of anyone on this site till I joined it cause a friend told me I could promote my level, of course, I liked it enough to stick around.

I tend to remember people from a level they made. I remember you from a level you made, but before you had posted, I couldn't have told anyone by memory what your heart count was/is.

If I see a high heart count, the only thing I can be assured of from that is that they've had popular levels. Doesn't necessarily mean they were any good, or memorable.

So, for me, heart count alone never made me remember anyone's name.

Impress me with a level, or being an awesome community member, then I might remember your name.

CENTURION24
10-24-2011, 01:20 AM
Centuruion..so you remember a H4H'er with 10,000 Hearts? O.o

Sure. I won't remember you though ;:^p JK dude

cymbol you act like you pick and choose what you remember. I don't sit around with flashcards of names and levels and try and remember who deserves a slot in my TiVo.

I simply stated what I tend to remember. Sorry my selective memory is so shallow.

CYMBOL
10-24-2011, 05:22 AM
Sure. I won't remember you though ;:^p JK dude

cymbol you act like you pick and choose what you remember. I don't sit around with flashcards of names and levels and try and remember who deserves a slot in my TiVo.

I simply stated what I tend to remember. Sorry my selective memory is so shallow.

Actually, I stated the opposite. I was just stating hearts never make me remember someone. And stated I tend to remember them by a level.

I don't remember insinuating that you are shallow.

Mr_Fusion
10-24-2011, 07:52 AM
I never have been good at remembering names. I know of Centurion only because Julesyjules told me that Centurion had made the Han Solo costume he was wearing. I remembered the name because I then went to search for more stuff. That was only a few months ago.

Cymbol; I only really know of because he is so helpful on the forums.

Not sure if I have played any of your stages to be honest. Maybe.

Once I was in create mode with Evret and SladenBob tried to join and I asked if he was legit before I allowed him... Evret laughed, and explained he was fairly trustworthy. Another time I was in create and Steve BIg Guns dropped in, didn't realise he had made that awesome FPS level, it clicked a little later. I'm sure I looked stupid showing of some object too him.

Now I play with LBP.me open to check all these people... just to make sure I say 'good job' if I meet them. Chazprime is a perfect example; didn't realise he was behind an awesome Donkey Kong remake until after I was messing with a font of his and commented that it looked like a Nintendo font.

The worst thing I have done is said to someone while testing their stage was that it had a similar look and feel to something I had played last week and they said "Yeah, that was mine... this is the sequel"

OmegaSlayer
10-24-2011, 09:25 AM
LOL, another things to take in account is that, how we say in Italy...the water always go to the sea.
I mean that creator with lots of heart receive even more heart in an easier way :)

RainbowtipsFort
10-24-2011, 09:42 AM
It's a weird one, certainly, and I think all posts here that have coined theories about the why's and wherefore's are perfectly valid, and I think that right there is the crux of the matter: there is no one definite answer.

Many creators I've hearted, which number up to about six, have provided me with a different Lbp experience that I would love to revisit at a later date. All my other hearts are simply for levels that impress me visually and/or technically, but don't neccessarily bring me back.

For instance, before Skunk Factory 2 came up in the Spotlight I'd never heard of Bobtox, but have since hearted him as a creator and still don't consider him all that well-known.

Whereas I have other levels by more popular creators hearted but not the creators themselves, which begs the question: can a levels' popularity overshadow said levels' creator?

Ayneh
10-24-2011, 10:46 AM
The community isn't homogeneous but split by language barriers and sub-communities like LBPC. Creators in Mm Picks are well known in the sense Mm Picks is universally accessible in the same manner to all LBP2 players.

OmegaSlayer
10-24-2011, 11:00 AM
Ok, as an example of Hearts given with the butt...this are the latest hearts I received.

Yu-Hugo Hearted this player .
about 2 hours ago in LittleBigPlanet™2

cool_scooter Hearted this player .
about 12 hours ago in LittleBigPlanet™2

DAN--MURPHY Hearted this player .
2 days ago in LittleBigPlanet™2

heartlesswrench Hearted this player .
5 days ago in LittleBigPlanet™2

firemeup-3 Hearted this player .
6 days ago in LittleBigPlanet™2

darksideways21 Hearted this player .
10 days ago in LittleBigPlanet™

and these are the last 10 days of my levels...
StarCrossed (http://lbp.me/v/400pwv)

eyeNJOYnothen Played this level. Rated it .
1 day ago in LittleBigPlanet™2

SenneChuChi Played this level. Rated it . Hearted it .
11 days ago in LittleBigPlanet™2

thebigcheese96 Played this level. Rated it .
11 days ago in LittleBigPlanet™2


Run For Your Freedom (http://lbp.me/v/qe93n7)

PJBgamer Played it 2 times.
about 11 hours ago in LittleBigPlanet™

doodakus Played this level.
5 days ago in LittleBigPlanet™

mikmor6 Played this level.
7 days ago in LittleBigPlanet™2

Rustywould Played this level.
9 days ago in LittleBigPlanet™2

And...I don't know anyone that hearted me... :boo:

Is there any kind of sense in it???
BIG F'N NOOOOOOOPES!!!
So, again, don't read into hearts.

Ayneh
10-24-2011, 11:14 AM
Ok, as an example of Hearts given with the butt...
Hearts given with the butt?

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l37/Corporeal/1bd65c40.jpg

OmegaSlayer
10-24-2011, 11:22 AM
Hearts given with the butt?

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l37/Corporeal/1bd65c40.jpg

That's the face I have everytime I notice I received a new heart. :)
Seriously.
I'm annoyed by undeserved hearts.

Shadowriver
10-24-2011, 12:57 PM
That's the face I have everytime I notice I received a new heart. :)
Seriously.
I'm annoyed by undeserved hearts.

how do you know that they are undeserved? :> some people simply like your creations :p

CYMBOL
10-24-2011, 01:36 PM
That's the face I have everytime I notice I received a new heart. :)
Seriously.
I'm annoyed by undeserved hearts.

Just cause you don't know why you got a random heart doesn't mean its undeserved. I sometimes see someone, perhaps in LBP.me activity, and wonder why I never hearted them. So, I correct it. :)

But yeah, it does make you scratch your head.

I love it when I check their LBP.me activity, to see what level of mine they played to make them want to heart me was, and find that they are and hearting tons of creators, and a lot of times, really good creators. I figure its probably someone I know, perhaps adding a second account? Or, someone new to the forums.

Actually, more confusing for me is the unhearting. Oh, I'm sorry, was your daily subscription fee of "free" to high? :p

I don't mind either, but both are head scratchers. :)

SnipySev
10-24-2011, 03:30 PM
That's the face I have everytime I notice I received a new heart. :)
Seriously.
I'm annoyed by undeserved hearts.

Maybe people heart you because you have an adorable fluffy face :p

xkappax
10-24-2011, 05:17 PM
We all use that term. We talk about "famous", or "well known" creators.
Yesterday, a stranger in LBP said, "Well, you're a well known and respected creator in the community"... I said, "That's news to me, haha."

This is an interesting topic for me, because I get this from time to time, too. My response is usually pretty much the same thing, CYMBOL. :P I've had a grand total of 5 or 6 levels... and I've never had an mm pick. But people know who I am somehow, even though I haven't really had a level of my own in like two years.


I doubt many people outside my friends list, or a handful of people on this site would recognize my name, as for respected, I'd hope my friends appreciate advice I give, other than that... I guess I'm not even sure what that means. So, I appreciate his kind words, but personally, I don't think it applies.


I recognize your name! ^___^ Pretty much "known" creators to me are creators I've heard of. I have a really good memory, so chances are if I've seen you around the forums, or if I"ve seen a lot of levels posted by you, you are a "known" creator in my book.


I don't think creators hearts equal being well known. I see people all the time with tons of creator hearts that I've never heard of. And I know many creators with less creator hearts than me, but is consider them much more well known than me. So, to me, I don't consider that a very large factor.

I agree with this. I know a bunch of creators who have fewer hearts than me, or close to the same amount of hearts as me that I consider "well-known". There are also people like Chimpanzee, the lbp podcast guys, etc... people who don't really make levels but do other things for the community. I also consider them "well-known", even if they're not known in the same way. Does that make sense? Probably not. I tend to ramble. :P Sorry.

In conclusion, I don't like to put people up on pedestals. I consider everyone in lbp my peer. So, like i said, if I know you, you're known. ;)

Dortr
10-24-2011, 05:25 PM
That's the face I have everytime I notice I received a new heart. :)
Seriously.
I'm annoyed by undeserved hearts.

This is actually what makes me kinda mad Omega... I think hearting solely for levels is stupid.. Especially considering what hearting a creator does to your activity.
Say someone made an amazing level, it got Mm picked and they stopped playing LBP. Well all your going to see in your activity for that player is just all the other people that heart them.. Which is kinda useless. Same with a really popular level.

We all know the LBP community is mostly crap, the trolls the spammers and quite a few negligent popular creators. I try to heart those making the experience better, those who contribute to the community positively, those who seek out great creators and levels and socialize among other players and creators, those who actually have interesting activity instead of seeing their hearts stack up. I look at everything before I heart a creator. I like to see how many people they have hearted and who they have hearted. It's really cool to see in what order they have come across recognizable creators and supported them. Reviews are cool to see too, especially if they are longer than a sentence and on more unknown levels. Having an awesome level or a few just doesn't cut it for me... unless it is absolutely mind blowing I will heart the level and level alone.. and why "bookmark" a creator that is in almost everyone else's hearted list or easily accessible through Mm picks?

I don't like to see this in my activity or others:
Player X hearted Creator X
Player X hearted Creator X
Creator X played this level
Creator X played this level
Creator X played this level
Creator X played this level
Creator X played this level
Creator X played this level
Player X hearted Creator X
Player X hearted Creator X
Creator X played this level
Creator X played this level
Creator X played this level
Creator X played this level
Player X hearted Creator X... over and over

I like to see stuff like this:
Creator X played this level rated it :) hearted it and reviewed it
Creator X played this level rated it :)
Creator X commented on Creator Y's profile
Creator X played this level rated it :) hearted it
Creator X played this level rated it :)
Creator X played this level rated it :) reviewed it
Creator X reviewed this level
Creator X commented on Player Ys profile

^That's being a member of a community. Of course assuming the subject matter of the comments and reviews is good or helpful :p

Oh yeah XD Srry for this long post but check out this "Well Known" creator. I'm sure all of you have heard of him. Eh.. well.. the LBP.me profile is blocked so this link is the search for him.. Just look at the hearts and know this guy has 2 not very good and old LBP1 levels.. http://lbp.me/search?q=%40sackboy

CENTURION24
10-26-2011, 06:12 PM
@dortr

Rant much?

Dortr
10-26-2011, 07:28 PM
@dortr

Rant much? Yes sir. Is this new to you?
Actually if you read I simply explain the logic behind hearting and everything I said is quite often true.
I spend a lot of time in the community and see funny little trends that I like to express to those who don't pay any attention. If more would listen to my rants we all would have a much more friendly and productive community in LBP2, guaranteed ;)

Valeview
10-26-2011, 09:22 PM
just Read Back over your post Dortr and spotted the link....
i honestly did a double take. It, em, really puts my hearts into perspective lol

Dortr
10-27-2011, 02:00 AM
Lol are you reffering to Sackboy with 15,000+ and only reasonable explanation is that people wanted to heart Sackboy? What a genius idea... maybe I'm just mad because something as simple as that will get you tons of attention instead of trying to make awesome levels... and here I thought having a 5 letter PSN with no numbers would have been convinient.. people mispell it all the time too :rolleyes:

Antikris
10-27-2011, 03:43 PM
Famous... To me that used to mean creators with famous levels, but my list wasn't very long. Poms, Steve and I think that is about it. Then, when I joined LBPC, I got exposed to a whole lot more people who are smart and talented and that is what I now mostly recognize them from. Occasionally I drop in the middle of a friend's create session where one of these celebs are hanging out as well, sometimes they tag along with friends. The community as I see it isn't that big (I am not counting the bulk of anonymous 11-y/o's Cool Pages players as the community) and the more folks (famous or not) I meet, the more connected I feel.