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Pinchanzee
12-27-2008, 10:22 PM
[can somebody please change the titles to "Review4Review" please?]
Reveiw4Review

This is a helpful system for the "Level Showcase" forum where you can ask for your level to be reviewed and to return the favour you review one of the other persons levels! Everybody wins! Reviews do not have to be very lengthy but also very short reviews will be ignored.
The review should show at least 2 pro's and 2 con's for the level. Add suggestions in which you think the cons could be improved also.
Most of the credit goes to Whale for providing most of the foundations of this system :]

RULES

1) In order to participate in the Review4Review system you must indicate that you actually want to participate in your level showcase thread. Showcase threads will look like this then:

*PSN/Level

*Description

*Photos/Video (optional)

*Review4Review (ie "I am using the Review4Review system, see this thread (http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6627) for more details)

2) You do not have to participate in the Review4Review system. It is anticipated that with this system in place your level may receive a ton of reviews from people wanting to get their own level looked at. In turn you must review their levels, and if you do not have the time please do not participate.

3) Reviews should be extensive, rather than just “great level, keep up the good work!”. While comments like this are appreciated and encouraged, do not expect a review in return. People are looking for constructive criticism and the pros and cons of their level, and should you participate you must do this.

Get Reviewing!

Shining Aquas
12-28-2008, 05:59 AM
Get volunteers. Then it works.
Otherwise,:eek:

BassDeluxe
12-28-2008, 06:33 AM
I'd be willing to do this. That is, when I actually get a level up.

Takelow
12-28-2008, 08:15 AM
I think that posting reviews in original thread of the showcase should be more simple and effective for the authors... ;)

OCK
12-28-2008, 08:21 AM
Many of us have already been doing this in the form of giving feedback on peoples threads. The problem is that those who want feedback ( basically everybody ) dont always want to take the time to give feedback in return...

Xx_FAF_Sniper_xX
12-28-2008, 02:59 PM
Many of us have already been doing this in the form of giving feedback on peoples threads. The problem is that those who want feedback ( basically everybody ) dont always want to take the time to give feedback in return...

agreed, we just need more people to want to help out then just get a score for there level alone :/

Hamsalad
12-29-2008, 10:44 PM
i'd do that since getting people to play your level then let you know what they think even seems like pulling teeth, so count me in

Whalio Cappuccino
12-29-2008, 10:46 PM
It almost seems impossible, you really can't force anyone to review your level, and if they don't you really can't do much... I already review levels, as it's kind of my job on the site. I'd join when I get a decent level up.

ClankXIII
12-29-2008, 10:48 PM
We should get a review for ALL of LBPCentral members' levels. Every single one. Even if they're not completely serious. And then everybody would have a portfolio with their reviewed levels, and the levels that they've reviewed. Imagine how much more impressive the site would be with all of that information...

Hamsalad
12-29-2008, 10:58 PM
We should get a review for ALL of LBPCentral members' levels. Every single one. Even if they're not completely serious. And then everybody would have a portfolio with their reviewed levels, and the levels that they've reviewed. Imagine how much more impressive the site would be with all of that information...


I think thats a great idea, maybe even award bonus XP for reviewing levels, might be hard to moderate that they are actually doing reviews, I guess whoever they were reviewing could report them if they were just faking it to get XP or something. but i think that would be cool, make a review folder that includes your levels that were reviewed and by who and levels you've reviewed

Neverynnal
12-30-2008, 04:25 AM
You would never find people willing to do this. I mean to do an honest review it takes a lot of time and consideration.

I believe the showcase section is sufficient enough, although I do agree that many levels barely get a look unless there are screens and the person is of some stature in the forums (ie: published a good level in the past and is constantly active on the site).

While good levels in the past and popularity are completely legit reasons to check out some of the levels, it leaves a lot of hard work by people going nearly unnoticed. This review section is my personal way of giving back to the community, and as I've said in one of my showcase threads, I don't get much back in return unless I harp on people (which I absolutely hate doing).

That said, a good fix for this problem would require a complete change in people's attitudes, which is out of the hands of the moderators...unless you guys have some sort of mind-controlling device...:eek:

BassDeluxe
12-30-2008, 04:44 AM
I don't think he means a full-blown review. Just some feedback, some things he liked and didn't like, and suggestions. That, I think, is doable.

Neverynnal
12-30-2008, 04:30 PM
Well it's common courteosy to comment/play someone's level after they have taken the time to comment on and play yours. What bothers me is the amount of attention the people with 5-10 posts are getting when all they do is post on their showcase thread, while neglecting to look at others. I mean we even have some of those people spotlighted :rolleyes:

Takelow
12-30-2008, 05:26 PM
I mean we even have some of those people spotlighted

I hope i'm not in these... :p

I try to leave comments back on others levels as much as possible.
But i agree that a lot of people don't show the courtesy to do the same thing in returns.
Alternatively, it is good to see that there is people on this forum that take the time to play the other's levels and to comment them. It is not the case in all the LBP forum...

Neverynnal
12-30-2008, 06:29 PM
Oh yeah I totally agree Takelow. However, you can never have too much of a good thing and more people should step it up.

Whalio Cappuccino
12-30-2008, 07:42 PM
Well we have an idea going around. If you want, you can have it so you're level is a Feedback4Feedback, sort of level, which means when someone gives you feedback on your level. You give it back, this is probably the only way we can do it. After a while, people will see how effective it is, and start using it themselves.

Hamsalad
12-30-2008, 08:01 PM
i say we get it started ASAP. we should prob make a new thread as whale said review4review . something clever like that, i can get it started tonight by reviewing / giving my opinion on one of your guys' level(s) and then posting one i want reviewed of my own then the next guy that posts can review mine and post his?

BassDeluxe
12-30-2008, 08:04 PM
We decided it would actually probably be best to get it started ourselves. As in, no thread or anything, just post in your level's thread that you're using the Feedback4Feedback system, and maybe a short explanation of the system. We figured the people who do that will get more feedback, and eventually it'll catch on and most people will do it.

ClankXIII
12-30-2008, 08:14 PM
Well, let me start off by saying, anybody want me to review a level?

Warning: Will fire suggestions at will

Hamsalad
12-30-2008, 08:32 PM
i hate to be the first. but you can do my level zomg zombiez. i dont want anyone to do zombie onslaught yet till i make a couple adjustments due to people cheating. But i can do one of yours tonight but i have to wait until i get home from work

ClankXIII
12-30-2008, 08:34 PM
i hate to be the first. but you can do my level zomg zombiez. i dont want anyone to do zombie onslaught yet till i make a couple adjustments due to people cheating. But i can do one of yours tonight but i have to wait until i get home from work

I don't have any. >_>

So do I post here, or do you wanna give me the link to your showcase thread?

Hamsalad
12-30-2008, 08:38 PM
well i'll give you the choice actually since my other one isnt broken or anything its just some people can cheat and im at stupid work so cant fix it!

so i'll leave it up to you, my first one is a "real" level zomg zombies. its an adventure where you start in an abandoned police station, go to a graveyard, into a mausoleam and into a lab where you fight a tyrant boss http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6727

my second one is a survival challange where you shoot a endless army of zombies while held in a barn that progressively gets harder (you get a air strike for when it gets hairy) this one would be pretty short but fun hopefully

http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6727

ClankXIII
12-30-2008, 08:44 PM
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6727

http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6727

Both of those links are the same.

Whalio Cappuccino
12-30-2008, 08:44 PM
Ok, you guys don't seem to understand how it will work.

You post your level, in the showcase thread, have all the regular info.

Description
Screenshots
Video
All that extra stuff.

Then have it written in bold or something. That you are using the feedback4feedback system, with a description of how it will work. Which would be, they give you feedback, on your level. Then they ask you " Can you give me feedback on such and such? "

That's how it will work.

Warning though: You will probably need a lot of time, as you will have to leave feedback for all the levels the people give you, unless they don't give you any feedback. I'm saying maybe 5-6 levels? If it goes really well, the feedback can go up to 20. That's what we're aiming for. A lot of feedback and suggestions. You will have to do the same for everyone that does it for you. We still need to talk to CC about a punishment for abusing the system, ( for example, just using it to get a lot of feedback but not giving any back )


@ Hamsalad: If your using the system, state it in your thread. Let's get this idea started and all that good stuff!

Hamsalad
12-30-2008, 08:46 PM
k, understood thanks for making it clear. so do you want us to start on it now or wait until you speak to him

Neverynnal
12-30-2008, 08:46 PM
And we need to make sure that feedback is more than a couple words like "great job keep it up". Constructive feedback is important.

I really love this idea though...sorry for being so pessimistic earlier but I'm kind of a Devil's Advocate when it comes to these sorts of things :) Glad minds were put together and this great idea came out of it all.

Whalio Cappuccino
12-30-2008, 08:47 PM
k, understood thanks for making it clear. so do you want us to start on it now or wait until you speak to him

I'll PM him, you can start it now. And in addition, if the person that gives you feedback on your level doesn't have a level. You obviously don't need to do anything.


And we need to make sure that feedback is more than a couple words like "great job keep it up". Constructive feedback is important.

I really love this idea though...sorry for being so pessimistic earlier but I'm kind of a Devil's Advocate when it comes to these sorts of things :) Glad minds were put together and this great idea came out of it all.

Of course, the feedback needs to be good feedback. At least 4-5 suggestions, some things you liked, disliked, wow factors, etc. Even if they're small. Lets just hope it works really well.

Hamsalad
12-30-2008, 08:48 PM
And we need to make sure that feedback is more than a couple words like "great job keep it up". Constructive feedback is important.

I really love this idea though...sorry for being so pessimistic earlier but I'm kind of a Devil's Advocate when it comes to these sorts of things :) Glad minds were put together and this great idea came out of it all.

ya very true, should make some clear guidlines about it being an actual review / opinion at least

Whalio Cappuccino
12-30-2008, 08:50 PM
ya very true, should make some clear guidlines about it being an actual review / opinion at least

You can start it up, give a description of how the system works. Give an idea of what would be "good" feedback. I don't have a level I'd like feedback for but I'll be glad to give your level some feedback right now. Just tell me when the system is up and stuff.

ClankXIII
12-30-2008, 08:51 PM
Yeah, cause right now I'm just reviewing others' levels. Nothing from me that you can review.

I don't see why we can't just organize it here. Just say, "Hey you wanna review eachother's levels?" and then when you've got something set up, then post the review in their level showcase thread.

HamSalad, please give me the link to your other zombie level.

Whalio Cappuccino
12-30-2008, 08:54 PM
Yeah, cause right now I'm just reviewing others' levels. Nothing from me that you can review.

I don't see why we can't just organize it here. Just say, "Hey you wanna review eachother's levels?" and then when you've got something set up, then post the review in their level showcase thread.

HamSalad, please give me the link to your other zombie level.

Because it's just extra work on people to keep coming here to find levels to review, when we can just have it on the level itself.

You just leave the feedback on the levels with the system set up. Remember you don't need to use the system if you know you don't have the time. So you leave the feedback, then leave a link to your level that you want feedback left for. It's really simple.

Hamsalad
12-30-2008, 08:54 PM
oops sorry about that here you go! http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6438

Whalio Cappuccino
12-30-2008, 08:56 PM
I'll try it out now. :)

BassDeluxe
12-30-2008, 09:20 PM
k, understood thanks for making it clear. so do you want us to start on it now or wait until you speak to him

You can go ahead and start it now if you like. You'll have to establish your own temporary rules though. If all goes well this system should be a very good one with a universal ruleset.

Neverynnal
12-30-2008, 09:30 PM
I wouldn't mind working up some rules and then sharing them with everyone. We can work together to put this together.

Whalio Cappuccino
12-30-2008, 09:37 PM
I wouldn't mind working up some rules and then sharing them with everyone. We can work together to put this together.

Alright then, PM us the rules and we'll tweak em around if they don't really work. I still need CC's official OK to make the rules official but we can start early as I don't see a real problem with this so far.

Neverynnal
12-30-2008, 10:26 PM
Alright I got a good base of rules set. Whaale's gonna wait for the go-ahead from CC and maybe implement this in the near future :)

Whalio Cappuccino
12-31-2008, 06:03 AM
Alright I got a good base of rules set. Whaale's gonna wait for the go-ahead from CC and maybe implement this in the near future :)

Ok, so I suppose we have the OK. CC wants a few people that want to do this. I know Neverynnal is up for it. So Neverynnal, the rules for punishment is, we just inform the mods about it and they'll take the proper actions.

Might want to PM CC Neverynnal, about the rules and that you want to be apart of it.

ClankXIII
12-31-2008, 06:16 AM
Can I see these rules? Right now I'm just about to finish up a review for one of HamSalad's levels.

Whalio Cappuccino
12-31-2008, 06:24 AM
Can I see these rules? Right now I'm just about to finish up a review for one of HamSalad's levels.

Written by Neverynnal himself.

Alright this is just a draft, and more needs to be added for sure. (such as discipline for abusing the system) Tweak it how you want and lemme know what needs to be added:

Review4Review Rules


Alright guys, we’re going to implement a new system that’ll hopefully give the showcase section a nice kick in the rear. The new system is Review4Review and it means exactly how it sounds. If you review someone’s level you would hope they would do the same for you.

The main goal of this is to increase the amount of feedback levels are receiving, as some unfortunately don’t receive plays, nor do they get commented on for improvements. This system should not only increase forum activity but also ensure that your level gets a good look from the LBPC Community.

RULES

1) In order to participate in the Review4Review system you must indicate that you actually want to participate in your level showcase thread. Showcase threads will look like this then:

*PSN/Level

*Description

*Photos/Video

*Review4Review

2) You do not have to participate in the Review4Review system. It is anticipated that with this system in place your level may receive a ton of reviews from people wanting to get their own level looked at. In turn you must review their levels, and if you do not have the time please do not participate.

3) Reviews should be extensive, rather than just “great level, keep up the good work!”. While comments like this are appreciated and encouraged, do not expect a review in return. People are looking for constructive criticism and the pros and cons of their level, and should you participate you must do this.

**more to be added**


It's not the official list, more to be added.

BassDeluxe
12-31-2008, 06:27 AM
Suggestion! Everywhere it says review, change it to feedback. Review makes people think of the big in-depth ones SA and Neverynnal do.

ClankXIII
12-31-2008, 06:27 AM
Suggestion! Everywhere it says review, change it to feedback. Review makes people think of the big in-depth ones SA and Neverynnal do.

I agree. :)

Okay, but since I don't expect a review in return (I have no level to get reviewed) do I still consider it a Review4Review?

Whalio Cappuccino
12-31-2008, 06:33 AM
I agree. :)

Okay, but since I don't expect a review in return (I have no level to get reviewed) do I still consider it a Review4Review?

I don't know if we should do IOU's that's kind of dumb. But just be nice and give feedback for the level, whether you have a level or not.

@BassDeluxe: Yeah I was going to mention that, we'll change it to F4F ( Feedback4Feedback system )

Takelow
12-31-2008, 08:21 AM
Great work!
I love this system.
So, if i well understood, for my existing thread, i just will have to add "Review4Review" after the description of the level?

Whalio Cappuccino
12-31-2008, 08:23 AM
Takelow, just sit around a bit. CC is doing something that will have it so when you create a thread on the Showcase forum. It gives you the option of whether you would like the system or not. So just sit and relax till it's up and ready. Then you can use it like how it's suppose to be used.

Takelow
12-31-2008, 08:54 AM
Ok, sorry Whaaaaale. I just didn't understood well. I knew it was already functionning...
Argh... My english not so good and when i read a little fast...

Nevertheless, you have all my support for this great idea! ;)

Elbee23
12-31-2008, 08:58 AM
Hmmm... all this sounds like what people like myself and OCK have been doing already... but it's not a bad idea. :)

I definitely agree though with the sentiment "feedback" rather than "review". Reviews can be very hard and difficult to do, and take a lot of time to process.

I'd also like to suggest some sort of cap or limitiation for the people that are requesting feedback. The first few people will likely get many, many requests, and it may be very hard to deal with that many. Over times things might settle, but you might want to change it to something like "the first 5 to give constructive feedback will recieve feedback in return" or any other such number or sentiment. This makes things reasonable in my opinion.

This could be a minimum number suggestion. If they want to increase that number or keep asking for feedback expecting to give it in return then the author should be free to do so.

So that's my thoughts on the topic. :)

Whalio Cappuccino
12-31-2008, 09:11 AM
Hmmm... all this sounds like what people like myself and OCK have been doing already... but it's not a bad idea. :)

I definitely agree though with the sentiment "feedback" rather than "review". Reviews can be very hard and difficult to do, and take a lot of time to process.

I'd also like to suggest some sort of cap or limitiation for the people that are requesting feedback. The first few people will likely get many, many requests, and it may be very hard to deal with that many. Over times things might settle, but you might want to change it to something like "the first 5 to give constructive feedback will recieve feedback in return" or any other such number or sentiment. This makes things reasonable in my opinion.

This could be a minimum number suggestion. If they want to increase that number or keep asking for feedback expecting to give it in return then the author should be free to do so.

So that's my thoughts on the topic. :)

I did send CC the rules, he's really tired so he'll post them tomorrow, so you should wait until then Takelow, and no worries I never said it wasn't functioning. I just want you to be the first to use it as how it should be used.

@ Elbee, I sent the rules to CC, and I had already changed all the "Reviews" to "Feedback"

I agree a lot of people have already been giving people feedback, myself included. ( I did that all of today, maybe about 6-7 levels... ) But this system will hopefully get everyone to pitch in and start acting like a community. I don't know how but I always know when someone is here just for the sake of their level and nothing else, I review the level nonetheless because it's sort of what I like to do, give back to the community. :)

As for the feedback limitation, I really don't see why we would need this. There is no deadline of when you have to give back to the person. You will have to do it sooner or later, people will understand when they see how many people the person still needs to do. No one is expecting 15-20 people to ask for feedback. And if that was to happen, then at least we're doing something right... right? :P

But seriously, if things do get out of hand, the person can always give them an IOU or something. Limitations can really suck, especially when you took all that time to leave such an extensive list of pros/cons/suggestions, only to find out you're on a "waiting" list, or that you're level won't get the feedback it deserves because that certain person can't handle the amount he has.

So, bottom line is... We have to see how things go..

Pinchanzee
12-31-2008, 04:40 PM
Wow, this has progressed a bit ^_^
Great idea's Whale, I'll copy your Rules to the first post, anybody feel free to suggest when you come up with something