PDA

View Full Version : LBPC Contest #9 - Locomotion Commotion



Pages : [1] 2

Pookachoo
09-25-2012, 10:58 PM
The publishing window is now closed
Thanks to all who've entered, we look forward to playing your levels.

Hiya Sacks and Libits!
Looooooooooooooong time no see, huh?
We're the Contest Crew, back from slumber, back with full force.
*roll drums*
We want to introduce you our new, tireless blood, the awesomeness of SpaceMonkey187, Missi_Cat, and Pookachoo!!!
So, the Contest Crew has its gears in place again, but...wait, what's this noise?

http://imageshack.us/a/img89/9827/lbpc91q.jpg

CLICK...RUMBLE...WHIR...

Gears are turning, pistons are pumping and the whole of Craftworld is in motion. It’s time for all you dream builders and engineers to take your pencils from behind your ears, sit down at a drawing board and design levels full of fantastical machinery, worlds of perpetual motion, glorious humming, spinning, continuously evolving chain reactions. Amaze us with feats of engineering; make us gasp at your Rube Goldberg-esque inventions, shining, well oiled clockwork or magnificent steampunk contraptions.

In this month’s contest we want you to create a motion oriented level for your sackperson to navigate.
The catch? All obstacles must be influenced by each other starting from a singular power source.

An example to help explain the concept: A singular motor bolt turns a cog which turns a series of other cogs, platforms connected to the cogs allow for player progression while causing constant level motion as they will always be moving. The cogs could then transform into a piston sequence (like a steam engine) which could in turn power further obstacles. However don't think your just limited to spinning things, the more creative the locomotion the better.

It must be a playable level so we don't want to just put down our controller and watch!

Building requirements

• The level must start with either a motor bolt, wobble bolt, piston or winch which will act as a power source.
• You may only have one power source in the level.
• The power source must be set to "visible".
• The portion of the level including the moving mechanics must be visible at all times.
• All additional obstacles need to be powered kinetically through chain reaction.
• All interactive obstacles need to be in some kind of motion at all times.
• The player cannot directly interact with buttons or switches, but may use any power-ups to do so from a distance.
• Every power-up is allowed, though we request the Creatinator to be equipped only with the standard projectiles
• No level links
• As a guideline levels should be 5-10 minutes long and, as always, we favour quality over quantity.
• Because of the very nature of the contest requirements, it will be frowned on if you emit/destroy the power source.
• No controllinators / player controlled Sackbots
• No mid-level cutscenes. You may have a short intro cutscene.

How to enter

• Build a level before the deadline that fits the contest description and building requirements.
• Include the text “(LBPC9)” in the title of the level. Don’t forget to add things like a nice looking badge, some tags, and a concise level description.
• Publish your levels in the 10 day period between 12.00AM GMT on 22nd October and 11:59PM GMT on 31st October 2012. Please note this is a change from previous LBPC contest rules.
• Post LBP.me links to your levels in this thread, so we’re sure not to miss them!
• After the deadline, the judges will grab some motion sickness pills and select the best levels based on the scoring criteria below. The creator of the best level will be awarded a Crown and rare LBPC pin!

Judging criteria

Levels will be judged according to the following criteria:
• Gameplay – Here, we’re scoring things like fun factor, balanced difficulty and freedom from glitches and bugs.
• Originality – How innovative is your creation? How well did you take the source material to create something unique yet still have it be recognizable?
• Visuals – This is all about how good your level looks. We like detail and lighting and special effects, but try to avoid graphics-induced lag!
• Audio – Sound effects and music are a great way to turn your level into an addictive and immersive experience.

Rules and Regulations

• This contest is open to all ages and all regions. That means anyone can participate!
• All entries must be playable in LittleBigPlanet 2
• You can only enter one level. Duplicate entries will result in disqualification.
• The contest officially begins on 26th September 2012 at 12:00am GMT. Previously published entries will not be accepted.
• Levels must be published during the 10 day publishing window between 22nd and 31st October with “(LBPC9)” in their title. After the final deadline on 31st October, do not republish. Levels republished after the deadline will be disqualified. Exceptions may be made for quick fixes with respect to level titles, description, badges, or major game-breaking fixes, but only with the prior consent of the contest crew. If you need to request an edit, please post in this thread and send me a PM.
• Levels must be your own creation. Feel free to take inspiration from the world around you and from other levels, but don’t copy someone else’s work outright! That’s just not cool….
• Last but not least, have fun, play fair and respect other creators!


Also a little Handy FAQ for you all


Q: Can I have my friends play test a locked beta level before the publishing window?
A: Yes. The beta level must remain locked, and should be deleted and replaced with your official contest entry during the publishing window. Your official entry must have a publishing date within the window.

Q: Can I enter a previously published level?
A: No.

Q: Can I enter a level I already have on my moon, but hasn't yet been published?
A: Yes.

Q: Once I've published my entry, can I republish it?
A: You can republish it as many times before the deadline as you like, but not after the deadline.

Q: When will the judging begin?
A: The judges may take a look at some levels prior to the deadline, but the judging proper will not begin until after the deadline.

Q: When will the results be posted?
A: We can't really give any accurate answer to this, but it will be no more than a month after the judging begins.

Q: Does every single part of the level have to be constantly moving?
A: No. Every contraption must be moving and powered through chain reaction by one original source. We do need to constantly be able to see the chain reaction taking place, and it should appear coherent and believable.

Newly Added FAQ About Building Requirements


Q: Does everything in the level have to be physically connected?
A: No, we just need to see the cause and effect chain reaction powering the level. The way in which motion transfers between parts is entirely up to you.

Q: Can moving scenery have its own power source?
A: Yes, just make sure we can see that it's scenery and not part of the interactive mechanics.

Q: My power source is a Wobble Bolt, Winch, or Piston, and I want it to have a pause. Is that allowed?
A: Yes, a constant power source with a build in pause in fine.

Q: Can I use In/Out Movers?
A: Yes, if the movement is believable and justified by the mechanics of your level.

Q: Can I use Object and Material Tweakers to adjust weight and friction, etc?
A: Yes

Q: Can I use Emitters?
A: Yes, if they're believable. We don't want to see just plain infinite emitting, but you could for example have a container of bombs that continues to refill. Remember that we need to see the cause and effect.

Q: Can I have water in my level?
A: Yes

Q: Instead of creating my own entry, can I help a friend?
A: Yes, but only the creator who publishes the level may receive the prize.



Good luck everyone!

Als_TheGamer
Biorogue
Dav1d0
LittleBigDes
Missi_Cat
Pookachoo
Psyntens
Shadowriver
Shropshirelass
Spacemonkey187

Jedi_1993
09-25-2012, 11:03 PM
Looks like a tricky one! I may give it a go... if I ever put LBPV down.

Tynamite
09-25-2012, 11:42 PM
Everything must be connected from the beginning to the end? I can't create new motors or power sources for other parts of the level?

Also, does everything sackboy lands on have to be moving? Can I put a platform over something that is moving to walk over it?

ForgottenEnigma
09-25-2012, 11:46 PM
Everything must be connected from the beginning to the end? I can't create new motors or power sources for other parts of the level?


Also, does everything sackboy lands on have to be moving? Can I put a platform over something that is moving to walk over it?

You are correct, you may only have one power source for the whole level and everything your sackperson touches has to be moving

just read the rules

Tynamite
09-25-2012, 11:58 PM
You are correct, you may only have one power source for the whole level and everything your sackperson touches has to be moving

just read the rules

I'm just clarifying.

yugnar
09-26-2012, 12:07 AM
This is a really nice idea for a level! I'm sure there will be some pretty awesome and maybe even MM-pickable concepts coming out of this. Still, it is probably the hardest concept for the contests yet. Making something that fits the judging criteria and all of the limitations specified in the rules will make this quite a hard challenge. Still, I'm so glad these contests are back! Good luck everyone! I might give it a try...

Pookachoo
09-26-2012, 12:16 AM
@yugnar - We did talk about whether this could be too challenging, but we have confidence in the talents of LBPC's creators!

WESFUN
09-26-2012, 12:16 AM
question shouldnt the level start with an entrince gate just saying?

Tynamite
09-26-2012, 12:22 AM
question shouldnt the level start with an entrince gate just saying?

O_o How else would you start the level?

Lord-Dreamerz
09-26-2012, 12:30 AM
Err I think I'll more then likely pass on this contest. way to hard... and goodness it's even more limiting then LBPC1! and we basically only have one month to make which is a really complicated confusing level idea and at the same time need to do a great job at it! I Think I'll just stick to my normal levels i've been working on this past year. ohwell. :S *mew

WESFUN
09-26-2012, 12:35 AM
question can we use a piston and a bolt if the pisoton is the power sorce?

also since there is only one power scorce can you use multipul power scrorces of the same kind?

Pookachoo
09-26-2012, 12:45 AM
question can we use a piston and a bolt if the pisoton is the power sorce?

also since there is only one power scorce can you use multipul power scrorces of the same kind?

If you use an ordinary Bolt (not Motor or Wobble) that doesn't count as a power source, so feel free to use a piston. You may use as many regular Bolts you want.

Only the one power source, everything must happen by chain reaction.

bonner123
09-26-2012, 01:01 AM
I think SLS10 and I can whip up something hilarious for this.

Hilarious, not good. Also physics don't fail me now.

fireblitz95
09-26-2012, 01:02 AM
Oh boy you guys really got me stumped on this one, I'll see what I can come up with. :)

WESFUN
09-26-2012, 01:09 AM
final question can we make a sackbot be the power sorce for example run on a wheel?

Wolffy123
09-26-2012, 01:12 AM
Oh. My. Goodness.

I SOOOO want to enter this one! Question.. Are we allowed to help our friends with this? I know someone who will definitely enter this, and I kind of want to help him instead of making my own. It will be on his Earth, and any prizes that may be given to him will be his and his only, I just want to help out :)

Is that allowed?

Tynamite
09-26-2012, 01:57 AM
Oh. My. Goodness.

I SOOOO want to enter this one! Question.. Are we allowed to help our friends with this? I know someone who will definitely enter this, and I kind of want to help him instead of making my own. It will be on his Earth, and any prizes that may be given to him will be his and his only, I just want to help out :)

Is that allowed?

I'm not an official judge or anything, but I don't see how working with your friend is against the rules. It's not like they're watching you anyways. If it was against the rules, what's stopping you from jumping into create with them and not crediting you to keep it secret? It's impossible to make that a rule because it's not possible to regulate.

Pookachoo
09-26-2012, 02:04 AM
final question can we make a sackbot be the power sorce for example run on a wheel?

let me check with the rest of the crew...


Oh. My. Goodness.

I SOOOO want to enter this one! Question.. Are we allowed to help our friends with this? I know someone who will definitely enter this, and I kind of want to help him instead of making my own. It will be on his Earth, and any prizes that may be given to him will be his and his only, I just want to help out :)

Is that allowed?

You can help out, but the level should essentially be one person's creation.
Play testing a locked beta level is a great way to help a friend before the publishing window.

Frinklebumper
09-26-2012, 03:32 AM
Ooh, this is definitely an interesting concept. I think I might have a go at this one! :D

I do have one question, though; Can decorative elements (things that don't effect the gameplay at all) in the level have their own individual "power source" (motor bolt, etc.)? Like if I wanted a spinning cloud or something in the background?

Night Angel
09-26-2012, 05:13 AM
Great idea for a contest, and sounds very challenging! I'm going to see if I can enter this after the Film Festival.

OmegaSlayer
09-26-2012, 05:35 AM
Some explanations
- Every contraption must move, that doesn't mean every single bit of the level, so elevators, moving platforms, lethalized sections (activated by contact), etc...must be connected to the power source.
- Obviously you can make a passageway over a piece of level connecting 2 contraptions.
- Sackboy turning the wheel...we COULD eventually accept it, but I encourage you all to think of the lag factor that sackbots suffer and how much lag could affect this kind of Contest and potentially be game breaking.
- You can help your friends, but the prizes go ONLY to the publisher.
- Decorative objects can have their own power sources, but it must be evident that the power sources don't affect the level.

RtooDee2
09-26-2012, 08:21 AM
I really wish this contest came out before LBPVita (Im finally getting to grips with it) ...but LBPC9 calls me, so down goes the Vita and out comes the drawing board i guess.

Good to see the contests are up and running again. Hello from me...and good luck to everyone!

goranilic
09-26-2012, 10:02 AM
I'm not sure I understand correctly, could you give a more detailed explanation for this:


• The portion of the level including the moving mechanics must be visible at all times.

ForgottenEnigma
09-26-2012, 10:19 AM
I'm not sure I understand correctly, could you give a more detailed explanation for this:

you have to prove that obstacle A affects obstacle B by showing us all connections in the level

OmegaSlayer
09-26-2012, 10:46 AM
I'm not sure I understand correctly, could you give a more detailed explanation for this:

To further explain what Dav1d0 said, but we thought it was pretty obvious, bolts, pistons, staffs, whatever must be set to visible.

RtooDee2
09-26-2012, 11:40 AM
Sooo...i line up a sensor(GREEN) that when comes in contact with sensor activate thingy (GREEN) which is connected to a piston (that is visible) ya?

Has the wire that connects to the piston fella have to be visible? I take it that the sensors have to be visible too ya? Just wana make sure.

Darkabbestia
09-26-2012, 11:42 AM
very hard concept... is the contest valid for all version of lbp - ps3 - psvita ?

OmegaSlayer
09-26-2012, 12:12 PM
Sooo...i line up a sensor(GREEN) that when comes in contact with sensor activate thingy (GREEN) which is connected to a piston (that is visible) ya?

Has the wire that connects to the piston fella have to be visible? I take it that the sensors have to be visible too ya? Just wana make sure.

The piston must not be wired but MECHANICALLY activated, and the sensors can activate hazards by CONTACT.
You all must think of a Rube Goldberg machine kind of stuff where if the connection between the power source stop at any time, the level stops.

Sackboy can interact with the level to remove something that prevents the chan reaction to work, that stops the chain, but he can't power it.

I hope that I've been exhaustive.

@Darka, the contest is only for LBP2.

As for the concept being hard.
It is, but we really want to award with Crowns people that can break the walls and create a new "genre", explore territories that other haven't explored yet.

goranilic
09-26-2012, 12:28 PM
As for the concept being hard.
It is, but we really want to award with Crowns people that can break the walls and create a new "genre", explore territories that other haven't explored yet.
... and I like this concept very much.
Thanks both of you for your answers.

Darkabbestia
09-26-2012, 01:25 PM
ok thank you i like this contest so i think i will begin to create again on lbp2

SLS10
09-26-2012, 03:35 PM
This is a step forward. I may enter.

Mizztrust
09-26-2012, 03:36 PM
Cool idea, a bit tricksy for me though, good luck to all that enter <3




http://littlesigplanet.com/v/fr2t7f/wallpapers_lbp2/full/sig.png (http://lbp.me/v/fr2t7f)

OmegaSlayer
09-26-2012, 04:11 PM
This is a step forward. I may enter.

Glad to tickle your excellent taste ;)

OriginalCreator
09-26-2012, 05:38 PM
I think i might sit this one out but I cant wait to see all the ingenious levels people come up with

Tynamite
09-26-2012, 10:56 PM
This wobble bolt I have as the source is screaming ... it can't handle all the weight.

Kalawishis
09-27-2012, 12:55 AM
I'm glad how the contests are getting harder.
It puts a much greater emphasis on innovation and reveals true genius more clearly. It requires large amounts of thought and you can't just throw something together. I would actually much prefer competitions like this to something like LBPC7 (make a show-based platformer) or LBN Tribute (make a tribute to pop culture) which anybody can enter and throw something crappy together while still following the rules.
There's just one thing. I think you guys might have taken it a step to far.
While at a glance this may seem easier than LBPC8, it would actually be a lot harder. Why? The game. LBP has a very frustrating physics engine. SackDroid, my LBP project, has a lot of contraptions in it, so I got to experience this full force. And, oh god, it hurt. If you have two quadrilaterals of material aligned slide against each other, they may slide, or break, or go off course - it's completely random. That is, if they stay on grid in the first place. Chances are when you come back to something you made it's going to be slightly off grid, even though that piston was still or that advanced mover was 100% deceleration. Combine the two, and your contraptions are going to break again and again and again. Oh no, not all the time, that would be merciful. They break sometimes, and not other times, so you have no idea what's going on. Chances are something you made will work fine, then break the next time even if you did nothing. Even if there's no problem, it's gonna break. If they don't touch each other, even if you made a tiny crack so the geometry won't rub against itself, it's gonna break. The game will find a way to move your moving parts ever so slightly so they collide. Oh, they can also rotate a bit on their own if they feel like it. Gyroscopes don't do anything. And even if you get it all to work, it's probably gonna break in play mode. Trust me. IT. WILL. BREAK.
And this is with the assistance of movers and individual power sources. Here, with only one power source, and BOLTS AND PISTONS (which have a little habit of going completely crazy and doing nothing they're meant to do)...well I'll be surprised if anything actually works. I'm serious. It will break.

WESFUN
09-27-2012, 05:01 AM
- Sackboy turning the wheel...we COULD eventually accept it, but I encourage you all to think of the lag factor that sackbots suffer and how much lag could affect this kind of Contest and potentially be game breaking.


to be honest I was thinking only 1 sackbot that would run around and had advanced ai inside of it so I dont see how that would use up alot of thermo :D

OmegaSlayer
09-27-2012, 05:39 AM
My suggestion is to think more to a Rube Goldberg machine than something forcedly connected.
We said that the level must have one power source, and that we want to see how machinery "X" affects machinery "Y" not that everything must be phisically connected. ;)
Think in a broader way guyz ;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdPDn1KUz_A

Darkabbestia
09-27-2012, 07:56 AM
yesterday i worked hard on creation and now i've some question before i continue to create to prevent mistakes

1: is possible to use tag sensor and with danger tweaker on pistons stuffs and all other machine pieces?
2: is possible to use emitters to create bomb or explosives?
3: is possible to use world tweaker to increment water level and then use water to activate/deactivate sensors or some stand alone contraptions that influence level working? ex. i can create some pistons that works with water?
4: the last one ... can I use material tweaker, to change boucing sliding and so on, and Gyroscopes?

I'm sorry for my english i hope is all clear

OmegaSlayer
09-27-2012, 08:43 AM
I just make a simple example of what's possible, then you figure out things.
First motor bolt activates a button switch that activates a cannon that fires on a two way switch that opens a tap/grid that allows water to flow...blah blah blah
I hope you all understand the point ;)
What's important is that
we want to see every mechanic and every action-reaction and they must be coherent and "believable"

Darkabbestia
09-27-2012, 10:20 AM
This wobble bolt I have as the source is screaming ... it can't handle all the weight.

my wooble bolt too
so i'm thinking to use some water

eustoma
09-27-2012, 11:16 AM
For Japanese creators, this is the contest description (#1) translated by me.
日本語訳です。最初のご挨拶的な部分7行だけカットしました。
ちょっと難しいところもあって直訳しちゃってます。参考にしてください。



ギアが回転し、ピストンが動き、クラフトワールド中が動きに満ちている。夢の設計士とエンジニアの皆さん、 耳の後ろから鉛筆を取り出して製図板に向かい、すてきな仕掛けにあふれたステージを、絶え間ない動きと活気 と回転とつながり続ける連鎖反応の世界を、デザインする時間です。エンジニアリングの妙技で私たちを驚かせ てください。ルーブ・ゴールドバーグ的な発明、ピカピカにオイルがきいた時計仕掛け、見事なスチームパンク の装置で私たちを仰天させてください。

今月のコンテストでは、動きを重視したステージを作ってもらいます。そのねらいとは?すべての障害物が一つ の動力源から連鎖して影響を受けていること。

コンセプトを説明するために例を挙げます。1個のモーターボルトが1個の歯車を回転させ、その歯車がさらに 他の歯車や、歯車に連結された足場を回転させ、ステージ全体の動きを作りながら、プレイヤーを先に進ませて いく。歯車からピストンへ変換して(蒸気エンジンのように)、より遠くの障害物を動かしてもよい。もっとも 、物を回転させることにとらわれる必要はなありません。よりクリエイティブな動きほど望ましい です。

プレイ可能なステージでなければなりません。コントローラを置いて眺めてるだけのものは嫌です 。

作成条件
・ステージは1個のモーターボルト、ぶらぶらボルト、ピストン、ウィンチのいずれかを動力源としてスタート しなければならない。
・ステージに置ける動力源は1個のみ。
・動力源は「表示」に設定しなければならない。
・ステージのうち、動きの仕組みを含んでいる部分は常に見えるようになっていなければならない 。
・すべての追加の障害物は、連鎖反応による運動で動かされていなければならない。
・すべての相互作用的な障害物は、なんらかの形で常に動いていなければならない。
・ボタンやスイッチで、プレイヤーが直接に作用させられるようにするのは不可。パワーアップを使って離れた ところから作用させるのはOK。
・パワーアップは全種類使用OK。ただし、クリエイトギアは通常のprojectiles(※ゲームプレイ キットのミサイルの項目にあるウォーター、プラズマ、プラズマボールetcのこと)のみ発射できるようにす ること。
・ステージリンクは不可。
・ガイドラインとして、ステージの長さは5分から10分程度。通例通り、量よりも質が重視され る。
・コンテスト条件の性質上、動力源をエミッターで出したりデストロイで消すことは好ましくない 。
・コントロールギア、プレイヤーが操作するロビッツは不可。
・ステージ途中のカットシーン(ムービー)は不可。短いイントロムービーだけOK。

エントリー方法
・締め切り前に、コンテスト詳細と作成条件に従ったステージを作成する。
・ステージのタイトルに「(LBPC9)」を入れる。バッジやタグ、簡潔なステージ説明文など も忘れずに。
・ステージを、2012年10月22日午前12時00分GMTから2012年10月31日午後11時59分 GMTの10日間の期間中に公開する。従前のコンテストからルール変更がある点なので注意。
・このスレッドにLBP.meのリンクを投稿する。審査員が見逃さないため。
・締め切り経過後、審査員が酔い止めを飲んで、下記採点基準に従って優良ステージを選びます。最優秀クリエ イターには王冠とレアなLBPCピンが贈られます。

審査基準
ステージは次の基準に従って審査されます。
・ゲームプレイ ー 楽しい要素、バランスのとれた難易度、バグや不具合のないことが採点ポイントになりま す。
・オリジナリティ ー どれだけ革新的か。素材を生かしながら、いかにうまく使ってユニークなものを作って いるか。
・ビジュアル ー ステージの見た目に関することです。ディテールや照明や特殊効果は好きですが、グラフィ ックのせいでラグが起きるのは勘弁です。
・オーディオ ー サウンドエフェクトや音楽は、ステージを魅力的で夢中になる体験へと変身させてくれます 。

ルールと規則
・当コンテストは全年齢、全地域が対象です。誰でも参加できます。
・参加作品はリトルビッグプラネット2でプレイ可能でなければいけません。
・応募できるステージシリーズは1シリーズまでです。複製しての応募は失格になります。
・コンテストは2012年9月26日午前12時GMTに公式スタートとします。それ以前にアップロードされ た作品は応募できません。
・ステージは10月22日から31日までの10日間の公開期間に、タイトルに「(LBPC9)」を入れてア ップロードすること。10月31日の締め切り後は再アップロードできません。締め切り後に再アップロードさ れたステージは失格となります。例外として、ステージタイトル、ステージ説明、バッジ、およびプレイ不能に なる深刻なバグに関する簡易な修正は、コンテストスタッフの事前の同意により、認められることがあります。 編集許可が必要な場合、このスレッドに投稿し、私にPMを送ってください。
・ステージは自分で作成したものでなければなりません。身の回りや他のステージからインスピレーションを得 ることは自由ですが、他人の作品の丸コピーはだめです。クールじゃない。
・最後になりましたが、楽しんで、フェアプレイをし、他のクリエイターを尊重してください。

ミニFAQ
Q : 公開期間前に、ロックしたステージをフレンドにテストプレイしてもらうことはできますか?
A : はい。ベータ版ステージはロックし、削除してから公開期間中に正式なエントリー作品と置き換えなければなり ません。正式なエントリー作品は、公開日が公開期間中になっていなければなりません。

Q:前にアップロードしたステージを応募できますか?
A:いいえ。

Q:前に作ったけどアップロードしてなかったステージを応募できますか?
A:はい。

Q:アップロードした後は再アップロードできますか?
A:締め切り前は何度でも再アップロードできます。締め切り後はできません。

Q:審査はいつ始まりますか?
A:審査員は締め切り前にもステージを見ることがありますが、審査そのものは締め切り前には行 いません。

Q:結果はいつ発表されますか?
A:正確にはお答えできませんが、審査開始から1か月後ぐらいです。

皆さん、がんばってください!

Cosmic_Powder
09-27-2012, 02:52 PM
but se can use for example impact sensors and player sensors?

WESFUN
09-27-2012, 02:59 PM
im gonna enter this :D

OmegaSlayer
09-27-2012, 03:00 PM
Impact sensors: Definitely yes.
Player sensors are allowed but as I said earlier we must see consistency and coherence with the contraption design.

D-E-S_87
09-27-2012, 03:38 PM
I have a question.

Are teams allowed? And if a team won, would the prize be given to all team members or just the publisher?

Valeview
09-27-2012, 03:46 PM
Holy w....
Wow, way to come back, contest crew :p
This one may even be harder than the last contest, and I didn't think that was even possible. Interkinetic seems to be a good level, using mechanics like this ?(although, think there's more than one power source.)
Quick question, does scenery have to be connected too? Or could you have cogs tuning at random intervals in the background, not connected to the original source?

shropshirelass
09-27-2012, 04:38 PM
I have a question.

Are teams allowed? And if a team won, would the prize be given to all team members or just the publisher?

People can help their friends out with an entry but the prize will only be given to the publisher.



Holy w....
Wow, way to come back, contest crew :p
This one may even be harder than the last contest, and I didn't think that was even possible. Interkinetic seems to be a good level, using mechanics like this ?(although, think there's more than one power source.)
Quick question, does scenery have to be connected too? Or could you have cogs tuning at random intervals in the background, not connected to the original source?

I know right - gotta keep you guys on your toes! :P

To answer your question, decorations can have their own power sources but it must be clear that they are not affecting the playable bits of the level.

Wolffy123
09-27-2012, 07:12 PM
Wait wait wait wait wait...

I get the whole idea of a Goldburg (Spelling?) machine and everything, but is it supposed to be playable? How do you make a platformer Goldburg machine? It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Unless... You have the player use the Goldburg obstacles as platforms, and the machine does its thing, but sackboy has to hit buttons that let the machine continue its thing? And eventually you unlock all of the doors or whatever that allow the machine to finish its mission?

Valeview
09-27-2012, 07:14 PM
To answer your question, decorations can have their own power sources but it must be clear that they are not affecting the playable bits of the level.

By decoration, do you mean only the decorations in the stickers section of the popit, or does scenery (such as, say cogs from the objects) count as well? :p

Pookachoo
09-27-2012, 07:41 PM
Unless... You have the player use the Goldburg obstacles as platforms, and the machine does its thing, but sackboy has to hit buttons that let the machine continue its thing? And eventually you unlock all of the doors or whatever that allow the machine to finish its mission?

I think you've got the gist of it :)


By decoration, do you mean only the decorations in the stickers section of the popit, or does scenery (such as, say cogs from the objects) count as well? :p

You can have powered objects as scenery, just make sure we can easily tell that they're decorative and not part of the main level mechanics.

Liquid_Blood_
09-28-2012, 03:02 AM
A couple points of clarification I need regarding this line:


All interactive obstacles need to be in some kind of motion at all times.

1. Does this mean there can be no stationary platforms for the player to stand on?

2. Say I want the player to fall off a platform into some spikes or smoke.. is that not allowed unless the spikes/smoke is moving, even though it's at the bottom of a fall?

Tynamite
09-28-2012, 03:08 AM
I have my motor on a wobble bolt that pauses for 3 seconds, are you saying that isn't allowed?

L-I-M-I
09-28-2012, 06:00 AM
I just make a simple example of what's possible, then you figure out things.
First motor bolt activates a button switch that activates a cannon that fires on a two way switch that opens a tap/grid that allows water to flow...blah blah blah
we want to see every mechanic and every action-reaction and they must be coherent and "believable"

Ok this reply to me conflicted with previous clarifications:


If the button is hit once and the water is kept flowing without the the button being constantly held down, then the water becomes a power source.....


Are u saying a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc power source(s) are allowed? In other words. A cog drops a ball and hits a button and then water flows, etc. Power source A inadvertenly starts power source B, hence u have a chain of power sources all starting with power souce A.

At a glance this contest read as a singular power souce in which other power sources cannot be created.

Did you mean to write that the water will flow only while piece A comes in contact with the button.



Also, say I have a cube that is being emitted and then a piston being powered thru "chain" pushes the block, which in turn the block falls and hits a button and while the button is pressed and wobble bolt will activate and so on and so on. (FYI the block selfd estroys to make the button intermittent.


Also, your definiton above mentioned "button activated" a button isn't defined as a "physical connection" such as a cog, slider, piston (not the tool, real life piston)

a rube goldberg machine doesn't illustrate a mechanism that lasts indefinetly, its equivalent to dominoes. Once it goes thru its motion once its finished.

I understand the conceppt here, but please be more definitive with what exactly can be used in the tool bag once we have established our single power source. Cause in my eyes a button switch only activates power sources.

OmegaSlayer
09-28-2012, 06:44 AM
A couple points of clarification I need regarding this line:



1. Does this mean there can be no stationary platforms for the player to stand on?

2. Say I want the player to fall off a platform into some spikes or smoke.. is that not allowed unless the spikes/smoke is moving, even though it's at the bottom of a fall?

1. Obviously you can have solid ground.
We only mean that whatever thing is moving in your level must move due to a connected power source

2. I don't get it, but if people fall from a moving platform, you already got the point :confused:
Maybe I didn't understood your request well.


I have my motor on a wobble bolt that pauses for 3 seconds, are you saying that isn't allowed?

No, why it shouldn't, we can argue about the reason, bt you could place something like a broken battery (using a sequencer) before the wobble bolt to justify the behaviour of the bolt.
We're interested in coherence, as I said we want to see how the level behaves


Ok this reply to me conflicted with previous clarifications:


If the button is hit once and the water is kept flowing without the the button being constantly held down, then the water becomes a power source.....


Then I would expect the water level to keep rising endlessly. ;)
Don't mess the cause-effect concept with power source



Are u saying a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc power source(s) are allowed? In other words. A cog drops a ball and hits a button and then water flows, etc. Power source A inadvertenly starts power source B, hence u have a chain of power sources all starting with power souce A.

At a glance this contest read as a singular power souce in which other power sources cannot be created.

Did you mean to write that the water will flow only while piece A comes in contact with the button.



Yes



Also, say I have a cube that is being emitted and then a piston being powered thru "chain" pushes the block, which in turn the block falls and hits a button and while the button is pressed and wobble bolt will activate and so on and so on. (FYI the block selfd estroys to make the button intermittent.


Also, your definiton above mentioned "button activated" a button isn't defined as a "physical connection" such as a cog, slider, piston (not the tool, real life piston)

a rube goldberg machine doesn't illustrate a mechanism that lasts indefinetly, its equivalent to dominoes. Once it goes thru its motion once its finished.

I understand the conceppt here, but please be more definitive with what exactly can be used in the tool bag once we have established our single power source. Cause in my eyes a button switch only activates power sources.

http://oi53.tinypic.com/34hvpjo.jpg

Liquid_Blood_
09-28-2012, 07:04 AM
Let me restate my 2nd question: Spikes and smoke I would consider obstacles. As per the rules, "obstacles" must always be in motion. Does this mean all danger elements such as spikes/smoke have to be tied to the machine, or can they be stationary? I ask because in some gameplay-design cases, there might be no reason for them to move.

An additional question.. what about emitters? Are they allowed since they could be utilized as a secondary power source?

This is a really neat contest and I just want to be sure I'm not disqualified for a misunderstanding! :D

OmegaSlayer
09-28-2012, 07:56 AM
Spikes and gas are the shortcut to the inevtability of death
(How I feel so decadently poetic :rolleyes:)
I mean spikes and gas are there to prevent sackboy to get stuck in some place forever, the action that leads sackboy to his inevtablblble departure is the missed jump or falling into a trap.

Again, as I said emitting a cannonball for example is ok.
Due to the nature of the game we can't see an infinite deposite of cannonballs, though, it's better to see a reserve of balls entering one by one in the cannon and then be fired than see a cannon firing balls out of nowhere ;)

Darkabbestia
09-28-2012, 10:07 AM
I think that i understood how this level will works and i found some tricks to use only one motor bolt but i need to ask you this again:
can I use emitters to create infinite bombs to use in the level ?

P-I-M-P-I
09-28-2012, 11:49 AM
Woah amazing contest idea. I'm doing this for sure! :love:

OmegaSlayer
09-28-2012, 12:12 PM
I think that i understood how this level will works and i found some tricks to use only one motor bolt but i need to ask you this again:
can I use emitters to create infinite bombs to use in the level ?

As I said, it wold be nice to see a reserve of bombs from where the bombs get into place and they just don't pop out of nowhere?
If you make a container with bombs it's ok to refill it emitting bombs.
If you shoot bomb with emitters, it's not allowed

moonwire
09-28-2012, 12:13 PM
And here I was looking forward to playing LBP Vita throughout my upcoming autumn vacation.Oh, how wrong I was.

I must say, the challenges are getting better and better :p

Darkabbestia
09-28-2012, 01:03 PM
ok thank you, my idea was a bomb box so i can continue

moonwire
09-28-2012, 02:29 PM
Ok, I just did another read-through... just refer to earlier comments if I repeat a question asked by someone else :)

1. Can buttons/Switches in any way activate any sort of motion at all, whether it is direct or indirect? Winches, pistons, wobble bolts and the likes are out of the question since there can only be one singular power source, so I cannot use it to slide open and let something fall out, right? I'm also guessing movers and rotators are out of the picture.

2. What about in/out movers, and for an example, gravity switches which dampens objects?

3. Whenever I create, I get the impression that whether it is a piston or a wobble bolt, they break easily when there is too much weight, is there any possible way to fix this? A level of this kind would be in a lot of trouble, should anything break.

4. All interactive pieces must be in motion at all times, whether or not they are inaccessible(?), but is there a limit to how little motion it needs to be in? Does all motion have to be completely constant, or are small pauses allowed?

5. Can I emit any pieces at all which affect gameplay?

OmegaSlayer
09-28-2012, 02:46 PM
Ok, I just did another read-through... just refer to earlier comments if I repeat a question asked by someone else :)

1. Can buttons/Switches in any way activate any sort of motion at all, whether it is direct or indirect? Winches, pistons, wobble bolts and the likes are out of the question since there can only be one singular power source, so I cannot use it to slide open and let something fall out, right? I'm also guessing movers and rotators are out of the picture.

A powered button could open a trap door for example



2. What about in/out movers, and for an example, gravity switches which dampens objects?


You can have every time of action that is JUSTIFIED by the cause-reaction flow in your level
You don't have to ask us: "can I do this?"
But you have to ask yourself "is this behaviour believable?"



3. Whenever I create, I get the impression that whether it is a piston or a wobble bolt, they break easily when there is too much weight, is there any possible way to fix this? A level of this kind would be in a lot of trouble, should anything break.


yes, transform the initial power source energy into kinetic energy that powers another section



4. All interactive pieces must be in motion at all times, whether or not they are inaccessible(?), but is there a limit to how little motion it needs to be in? Does all motion have to be completely constant, or are small pauses allowed?


We want to see how the initial force travels through the beginning to the end of the level to prevent gamblings ;)
How you make the signal travel is up to you



5. Can I emit any pieces at all which affect gameplay?

You can emit what yo find here in the projectyle section
http://wiki.lbpcentral.com/Gameplay_Kits
plus bombs, always with a reason ;)

moonwire
09-28-2012, 03:10 PM
More questions, to clear up further my earlier ones.
An example: There is a button hooked up to a section of the "roof", and when it is pressed, it opens and a piece of gameplay falls down which connects two other pieces, is that allowed? Besides in/out (question below), another piston or wobble bolt to open the section would qualify as another power source, would it not?

In/out motion cannot be controlled by the cause-reaction, In short wonder if it would still be allowed (like when using it for the trap door).
Another example: A 2 layer piece of cardboard is fixed in place and moves in and and, each time one of the sides block motion from a specific rotating cog (both powered by the power source), which makes both of them do something separate.
Once again, is this allowed?

TJ2010-OLYMPICS
09-28-2012, 03:37 PM
Wow this is gonna be a thinker, but I am always up for a challenge!

OmegaSlayer
09-28-2012, 03:57 PM
More questions, to clear up further my earlier ones.
An example: There is a button hooked up to a section of the "roof", and when it is pressed, it opens and a piece of gameplay falls down which connects two other pieces, is that allowed? Besides in/out (question below), another piston or wobble bolt to open the section would qualify as another power source, would it not?


Yes, it is allowed, though I encourage you all to think mechanically, so use "something" that prevents "something else to move or fall into the right place" instead of using buttons.
We allow buttons/switches to make things easier, though self made stuff is more than welcome and may be even more "performant"
As you can imagine. building your own button/levers nets lots of design points



In/out motion cannot be controlled by the cause-reaction, In short wonder if it would still be allowed (like when using it for the trap door).
are you sure? ;)
I say that contact to simulate hazards or electricity is allowed ;)



Another example: A 2 layer piece of cardboard is fixed in place and moves in and and, each time one of the sides block motion from a specific rotating cog (both powered by the power source), which makes both of them do something separate.
Once again, is this allowed?

If you justify the movement yes :)

moonwire
09-28-2012, 04:24 PM
So basically, it's fine as long as it's fancy :p

drstixxs12
09-28-2012, 08:54 PM
here's my submisson for LBPC9 not done yet but heart and keep a look out for it.

http://lbp.me/v/fs1xjx

Wolffy123
09-28-2012, 09:01 PM
here's my submisson for LBPC9 not done yet but heart and keep a look out for it.

http://lbp.me/v/fs1xjx

What the nuggets are you doing?!?!

You know people can steal your ideas, right?? Not the greatest idea, my friend. EDIT: Nevermind, didn't realised it's locked. XD

On a different note, I'm still confused beyond belief... I just started the gameplay. I'm confused about something.. So, no matter what, you CAN NOT use more than one piston/motor bolt in your contraption thingy? Here is an example.. I have a cog that uses a motor bolt (Main source of energy), that opens a door, sets loose a ball, the ball then goes over onto a platform that has a piston connected to it, launching the ball into the air. Yay or Nay? I have it so the ball is the source of the piston going off.

Here is another question, relating to the previous. Can I have the player press a button that activates the piston, that launches the ball in the air?

Also, if the player dies, can you use pistons and stuff to reset everything? If not, this will make things VERY difficult :/

Thanks!

Schark94
09-28-2012, 09:47 PM
I'd read through all the posts in this thread and I think I get the idea of this. This one will require much thinking, but I like challenges and I think I'm entering this contest. Now I just need some paper and my pencil...

PGdafrog
09-28-2012, 10:13 PM
Great to see another contest! Fantastic work on coming up with yet another awesome theme, Contest Crew!

Shame I'm too addicted to Borderlands 2 to play anything else at the moment. Stop having contests on when I'm not able to play LBP, fools! :p

Bremnen
09-28-2012, 10:20 PM
I advise everyone to get their material tweakers set to indestructible ready.
Also be prepared for a lot of breaking bolts.

I like the idea of this contest, I might enter.. although i've never made a legitimate level before, I have a bunch of mechanical parts already made.. (nvm I dont have them anymore apparently >.>)
Ideas for people:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q76r-3z4Ckk
DA page with different pics of mechanical parts:
http://mechanism-stock.deviantart.com/gallery/
And of course Clay and Fotos Interkinetic ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_qWY_D-VGo

Ben21
09-28-2012, 10:42 PM
FINALLY!!! I am in on this one sounds like a great idea i wonder how i will pull it off.

Chaos_Martin
09-28-2012, 11:05 PM
I might enter this one. I own a Crown but I want the LBPC pin. Can I still enter and 2nd place can have the crown IF of course if I win get the LBPC Pin?

ForgottenEnigma
09-29-2012, 12:55 AM
I might enter this one. I own a Crown but I want the LBPC pin. Can I still enter and 2nd place can have the crown IF of course if I win get the LBPC Pin?

That's generally how it works, so yeah, the more the merrier.

vinkreepo
09-29-2012, 02:50 AM
I am very sorry to say that the original post has two conflicting rules.

Rule A: All additional obstacles need to be powered kinetically through chain reaction.

Rule B: All interactive obstacles need to be in some kind of motion at all times.

Now here's the issue; if I make a true Goldberg machine, one event will lead to the next in a grand chain reaction. This implies that once one event has transpired, the next event is triggered and the first event can cease to function. For example, let's say a block falls on a plank which knocks a platform into position which loosens a jammed cog which picks up a door etc. The block has ceased to descend, the plank fell to some stationary point, the platform is at rest, the door is open and so on. Now this contradicts Rule B since movement in these interactive pieces has ceased.

Let's say, however, that Rule B must be followed. Your previous example of cogs and platforms applies and is some sort of chain. However, your idea that each interactive element is transferring kinetic energy to the next element is room for error and low quality levels. Here's why; this means that one bolt is turning, say, a cog, which turns another cog, which raises a platform etc. all the time according to Rule B. Thus, due to friction and gravity (which need to somewhat exist for believability), not all of the energy is transferred to the next piece. some of that is lost in those two forces. Which means that each piece eats up some of the initial energy which limits level size. Now all of that mass depends on the energy of that one motor bolt so our levels will be extremely limited. Furthermore, we can not use falling objects (which lets gravity help power our contraption) or projectiles because these interactive elements are either stopped (violating Rule B) or they add to the mass that is dependent on the motor bolt once recycled and put back into motion.

Hence, creators have now stated that their wobble bolts are being stretched to the limits. And furthermore, many of the posts the contest team have posted disregard Rule B by saying we may do things like have Sackperson remove an object that blocks the chain (which implies the chain may have been stopped and after it is back in motion, the next section still adds mass to the motor bolt), or shoot projectiles that are not necessarily recycled, etc.

So I ask for the sake of level quality, creativity, and consistency among competitors that Rule B, which states all interactive elements be moving in some way, hereby be removed so that our levels can have objects such a dominoes, falling blocks, dropping hammers, ball in cup, etc. to maintain a sense of chain reaction and not just some small machine that relies on a motor bolt to function.

P.S. This would allow players to start off a level by, say, having Sackperson push a block onto a waterwheel/cog that moves a platform .... and so on... a true chain reaction.

Wolffy123
09-29-2012, 02:58 AM
I am very sorry to say that the original post has two conflicting rules.

Rule A: All additional obstacles need to be powered kinetically through chain reaction.

Rule B: All interactive obstacles need to be in some kind of motion at all times.

Now here's the issue; if I make a true Goldberg machine, one event will lead to the next in a grand chain reaction. This implies that once one event has transpired, the next event is triggered and the first event can cease to function. For example, let's say a block falls on a plank which knocks a platform into position which loosens a jammed cog which picks up a door etc. The block has ceased to descend, the plank fell to some stationary point, the platform is at rest, the door is open and so on. Now this contradicts Rule B since movement in these interactive pieces has ceased.

Let's say, however, that Rule B must be followed. Your previous example of cogs and platforms applies and is some sort of chain. However, your idea that each interactive element is transferring kinetic energy to the next element is room for error and low quality levels. Here's why; this means that one bolt is turning, say, a cog, which turns another cog, which raises a platform etc. all the time according to Rule B. Thus, due to friction and gravity (which need to somewhat exist for believability), not all of the energy is transferred to the next piece. some of that is lost in those two forces. Which means that each piece eats up some of the initial energy which limits level size. Now all of that mass depends on the energy of that one motor bolt so our levels will be extremely limited. Furthermore, we can not use falling objects (which lets gravity help power our contraption) or projectiles because these interactive elements are either stopped (violating Rule B) or they add to the mass that is dependent on the motor bolt once recycled and put back into motion.

Hence, creators have now stated that their wobble bolts are being stretched to the limits. And furthermore, many of the posts the contest team have posted disregard Rule B by saying we may do things like have Sackperson remove an object that blocks the chain (which implies the chain may have been stopped and after it is back in motion, the next section still adds mass to the motor bolt), or shoot projectiles that are not necessarily recycled, etc.

So I ask for the sake of level quality, creativity, and consistency among competitors that Rule B, which states all interactive elements be moving in some way, hereby be removed so that our levels can have objects such a dominoes, falling blocks, dropping hammers, ball in cup, etc. to maintain a sense of chain reaction and not just some small machine that relies on a motor bolt to function.

P.S. This would allow players to start off a level by, say, having Sackperson push a block onto a waterwheel/cog that moves a platform .... and so on... a true chain reaction.

THIS.

I couldn't agree with you more.

Also, no one has answered my questions yet :P

Tynamite
09-29-2012, 04:16 AM
I might enter this one. I own a Crown but I want the LBPC pin. Can I still enter and 2nd place can have the crown IF of course if I win get the LBPC Pin?

Confusing question (intentionally):

What if, under some circumstance, I already have a crown, and I win, but I don't actually have a crown and I didn't fileshare, and I want to keep the crown code, even though it appears I have a crown, which I don't, can I still get the crown code if I win?


:grr:

L-I-M-I
09-29-2012, 05:11 AM
In terms of maintaining pace within the level to pprevent the "action/reaction getting ahead of sackbouy/girl, may we incorporate a pause like function within the level.

i.e. A triggers (-->) B --> C --> D but --> E is off screen/out paced player who has to transverse A-->D, can a stopper be placed that pauses D--->E, untill sackboy/girl catches up with the action and then it magically starts back up from D --> E --> F, G, H, I.... when these sections come into view?

I understand you would like this to happen as smooth as possible without the player being a forced power source, or can we have the action stop and require the player "fix" the mechanic to get it working again?

i.e.
D (ball rolls down slope) ---- ( ball hits door/wall) ---(player pushes/pulls/lifts/etc door/wall) --- (ball rolls down slope) --> E (ball hit button and releases baloons :D) ----> F.....

The player interaction unpauses the system, but didn't interfere with the system as a whole and is back to going thru its course


Also, in terms of style points etc etc.

Imagine the system mentioned above with the baloon.
2 things:

1.) Emitter allowance: Say for example a player must in turn jump on the baloon to ride it up and he misses the baloon. May we place reset buttons that will emit a ball at stage D to restart D --> E, moreless are "magic" resets allowed
To prevent a one and done situation from occuring or the player waiting on the entire system to run thru its cycle and catching up to whatever stage they are at.
2.) Same thing if the player dies between 2 stages, or are we to treat this as a platforming survival or can we reset the system with the use of emitters/destroyers that continue the system at the nearest point before the section/stage they are currently in, hence maintaining the flow of the machine?


I am really digging the conservation of energy idea here, 1 in 10 people have the ability for cognitive thought, which means 9 out of 10 don't fully comprehend the transfer of energy from one space to another while considering losses by heat, friction, absorption, etc.

OmegaSlayer
09-29-2012, 06:40 AM
here's my submisson for LBPC9 not done yet but heart and keep a look out for it.

http://lbp.me/v/fs1xjx

We asked to start publishing the level 10 days before release to avoid leaks, steals and stuff.
At the moment your level would be disqualified, so I strongly suggest to take it down, or change name or whatever and publish it again in the time window we asked ;)


What the nuggets are you doing?!?!

You know people can steal your ideas, right?? Not the greatest idea, my friend. EDIT: Nevermind, didn't realised it's locked. XD

On a different note, I'm still confused beyond belief... I just started the gameplay. I'm confused about something.. So, no matter what, you CAN NOT use more than one piston/motor bolt in your contraption thingy? Here is an example.. I have a cog that uses a motor bolt (Main source of energy), that opens a door, sets loose a ball, the ball then goes over onto a platform that has a piston connected to it, launching the ball into the air. Yay or Nay? I have it so the ball is the source of the piston going off.

Here is another question, relating to the previous. Can I have the player press a button that activates the piston, that launches the ball in the air?

Also, if the player dies, can you use pistons and stuff to reset everything? If not, this will make things VERY difficult :/

Thanks!

Guys, you're making things way more complex than they are.
1 Power source means that you can have only the first contraption moving without giving a reason.
If at a certain point of the level, one of yor piston/winch activates a 2 way switch, you transferred the primary power source to piece of the chain.
Think like electric circuits
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_circuit
if you want piece D to move, you must take the signal from Primary Power Source A to activate source B > C > D
A can always be on, B, C and D can be on only when the signal arrives
So theorically you don't need a reset, but if you want something to work rythmically you maybe need to switch the signal on/off in some way ;)
Also the sackboy can't touch the switches directly, you have to use power-ups in someway.


I am very sorry to say that the original post has two conflicting rules.

Rule A: All additional obstacles need to be powered kinetically through chain reaction.

Rule B: All interactive obstacles need to be in some kind of motion at all times.

Now here's the issue; if I make a true Goldberg machine, one event will lead to the next in a grand chain reaction. This implies that once one event has transpired, the next event is triggered and the first event can cease to function. For example, let's say a block falls on a plank which knocks a platform into position which loosens a jammed cog which picks up a door etc. The block has ceased to descend, the plank fell to some stationary point, the platform is at rest, the door is open and so on. Now this contradicts Rule B since movement in these interactive pieces has ceased.

Let's say, however, that Rule B must be followed. Your previous example of cogs and platforms applies and is some sort of chain. However, your idea that each interactive element is transferring kinetic energy to the next element is room for error and low quality levels. Here's why; this means that one bolt is turning, say, a cog, which turns another cog, which raises a platform etc. all the time according to Rule B. Thus, due to friction and gravity (which need to somewhat exist for believability), not all of the energy is transferred to the next piece. some of that is lost in those two forces. Which means that each piece eats up some of the initial energy which limits level size. Now all of that mass depends on the energy of that one motor bolt so our levels will be extremely limited. Furthermore, we can not use falling objects (which lets gravity help power our contraption) or projectiles because these interactive elements are either stopped (violating Rule B) or they add to the mass that is dependent on the motor bolt once recycled and put back into motion.

Hence, creators have now stated that their wobble bolts are being stretched to the limits. And furthermore, many of the posts the contest team have posted disregard Rule B by saying we may do things like have Sackperson remove an object that blocks the chain (which implies the chain may have been stopped and after it is back in motion, the next section still adds mass to the motor bolt), or shoot projectiles that are not necessarily recycled, etc.

So I ask for the sake of level quality, creativity, and consistency among competitors that Rule B, which states all interactive elements be moving in some way, hereby be removed so that our levels can have objects such a dominoes, falling blocks, dropping hammers, ball in cup, etc. to maintain a sense of chain reaction and not just some small machine that relies on a motor bolt to function.

P.S. This would allow players to start off a level by, say, having Sackperson push a block onto a waterwheel/cog that moves a platform .... and so on... a true chain reaction.

Our rules doesn't stop you from doing what I have highlighted in bold.
We tried to be flexible with rules.
We gave Rube Goldberg machine as an example, not as the only right way to do things
We want the contraption that can lead to sackboy death be moving because of a chain reaction/kinetic/inertia effect, whatever moves must be powered, the power must be visible and must be actvated by the prevous source


Confusing question (intentionally):

What if, under some circumstance, I already have a crown, and I win, but I don't actually have a crown and I didn't fileshare, and I want to keep the crown code, even though it appears I have a crown, which I don't, can I still get the crown code if I win?


:grr:

You must make this very clear.
People has gameshared stuff and will still do it, since no one can prevent it, thogh the easiest way to be forgiven is publically tell the truth.
Otherwise both ours (as the Crew) and your (as contender) will be considered unfair
I'm sorry :(
I hope you understand


In terms of maintaining pace within the level to pprevent the "action/reaction getting ahead of sackbouy/girl, may we incorporate a pause like function within the level.

i.e. A triggers (-->) B --> C --> D but --> E is off screen/out paced player who has to transverse A-->D, can a stopper be placed that pauses D--->E, untill sackboy/girl catches up with the action and then it magically starts back up from D --> E --> F, G, H, I.... when these sections come into view?

I understand you would like this to happen as smooth as possible without the player being a forced power source, or can we have the action stop and require the player "fix" the mechanic to get it working again?

i.e.
D (ball rolls down slope) ---- ( ball hits door/wall) ---(player pushes/pulls/lifts/etc door/wall) --- (ball rolls down slope) --> E (ball hit button and releases baloons :D) ----> F.....

The player interaction unpauses the system, but didn't interfere with the system as a whole and is back to going thru its course


Also, in terms of style points etc etc.

Imagine the system mentioned above with the baloon.
2 things:

1.) Emitter allowance: Say for example a player must in turn jump on the baloon to ride it up and he misses the baloon. May we place reset buttons that will emit a ball at stage D to restart D --> E, moreless are "magic" resets allowed
To prevent a one and done situation from occuring or the player waiting on the entire system to run thru its cycle and catching up to whatever stage they are at.
2.) Same thing if the player dies between 2 stages, or are we to treat this as a platforming survival or can we reset the system with the use of emitters/destroyers that continue the system at the nearest point before the section/stage they are currently in, hence maintaining the flow of the machine?


I am really digging the conservation of energy idea here, 1 in 10 people have the ability for cognitive thought, which means 9 out of 10 don't fully comprehend the transfer of energy from one space to another while considering losses by heat, friction, absorption, etc.
As I said, the player can use a grabinator and throw something, pull with a hook, fire with creatinator/paintinator to remove the obstacle that is preventing the signal/signal carrier to reach point Y and activate the next section.
You can have an infinite source of emitted ballons/bombs, but they must apppear in a box, and said box must open/close/fire at a rhytmic pace set by the power source.

As for point 2, let's say that you're making a ball fall to turn a wheel, instead of resetting, you can keep balls falling to keep the contraption going.
Otherwise if you need a one-time action you can set some dear old plley/weight system ;)

moonwire
09-29-2012, 09:31 AM
The examples are getting confusing, I'll just ask the simple yes/no question everyone seems to want an answer for. I'm also pretty sure we covered these recent questions earlier through my question as well, but meh >.>

1. Can a piece of gameplay object remain motionless as long as it is not connected to, or blocked from the power source?

The answer is yes, from what I have gathered from the responses. This seems to go against rule "All interactive obstacles need to be in some kind of motion at all times", but am I right when I state that if it is out of reach, it is not interactive? That pretty much solves the problem if so. If that's allowed, then people can indeed block the cause/effect motion from the power source to other gameplay pieces.

The rule also states that "All additional obstacles need to be powered kinetically through chain reaction", but it only means that they need the power from the chain reaction, not that they need to be in contact with it at all times. Hope I am correct here too.

If you reply to clarify Omega, please start with a yes or no first, to the first question :p


EDIT:
By all means, go on with creating masterfully crafted Rube Goldberg-esque machines, that's what the judges want!

OmegaSlayer
09-29-2012, 10:14 AM
1. Yes.
The object/obstacle must be in motion when sackboy traverses it.

(Even because we can't know if it's in motion when we leave the area)

PGdafrog
09-29-2012, 10:42 AM
Just out of interest, would Interkinetic be a valid entry (assuming they hadn't already published it)?

OmegaSlayer
09-29-2012, 11:07 AM
I just have to replay it and get the particulars, but if I remember well, players could "throw cogs" with the creatinator, and somethng lke that woldn't be allowed in this contest.

Lakera-13
09-29-2012, 11:13 AM
I have always wanted to create something like this! If I had more time from school and other things I would be sure to enter. One annoying thing in LBP in things like this is just that machines break easily when they actually are connected to hundreds of other things :P. So good luck everyone! I am expecting to see a lot of great entries if people get this work well.

Rogar
09-29-2012, 11:55 AM
Very intriguing challenge... :)

LBP physics will pose some problems, though. But as I understand it, the essence is to build a chain of kinetic effects that all believably appear to be coming from a single power source. Wouldn't it then be better to allow more hidden power sources? For example: putting all your cogs on motor bolts so they run smoothly, but only making the first motor bolt visible, and covering the rest with regular bolts so they seem to be driven by the first cog?

ForgottenEnigma
09-29-2012, 01:17 PM
Very intriguing challenge... :)

LBP physics will pose some problems, though. But as I understand it, the essence is to build a chain of kinetic effects that all believably appear to be coming from a single power source. Wouldn't it then be better to allow more hidden power sources? For example: putting all your cogs on motor bolts so they run smoothly, but only making the first motor bolt visible, and covering the rest with regular bolts so they seem to be driven by the first cog?

but that wouldn't be as challenging... we want people to earn the crown with good ol' hard work XD

DominationMags
09-29-2012, 02:39 PM
This looks like a great idea for a contest, and I look forward to playing all the levels.

My level for this contest, you ask?


I gave up on these contests a LONG time ago. :p

PGdafrog
09-29-2012, 02:59 PM
Very intriguing challenge... :)

LBP physics will pose some problems, though. But as I understand it, the essence is to build a chain of kinetic effects that all believably appear to be coming from a single power source. Wouldn't it then be better to allow more hidden power sources? For example: putting all your cogs on motor bolts so they run smoothly, but only making the first motor bolt visible, and covering the rest with regular bolts so they seem to be driven by the first cog?

but that wouldn't be as challenging... we want people to earn the crown with good ol' hard work XD

Though surely someone could do what Rogar suggested and you wouldn't be able to tell. ;)

Tynamite
09-29-2012, 03:07 PM
Omega,

It's not fileshared, the situation in complicated, it looks like I have one, but I kinda don't.

Wafflegod345
09-29-2012, 04:45 PM
Hey cn I make it so it requires two players? And I have buttons that acivate things but I can make them open a gate for the gears to turn so it all comes from one source...I hope....

OmegaSlayer
09-29-2012, 05:08 PM
Omega,

It's not fileshared, the situation in complicated, it looks like I have one, but I kinda don't.

Look, the best thing I can do is asking you to find someone that would come here, post and vouche for your situation (I give you some names, you pick one: EnochRoot, b-coli, bagheadinc, shanedanger)
I can't do more than this. :(
Sorry


Hey cn I make it so it requires two players? And I have buttons that acivate things but I can make them open a gate for the gears to turn so it all comes from one source...I hope....

Sorry, don't understand, you want to make it co-op?
In case, that would make things really easier :rolleyes:
we didn't state that the level must be single player, though, making a co-op level could prevent you to get a high score :boo:

bagheadinc
09-29-2012, 05:53 PM
Look, the best thing I can do is asking you to find someone that would come here, post and vouche for your situationI can vouch for him. The issue is that he doesn't have the crown on his main account, Tyler_stewart, he redeemed the code on a secondary account. It's not been an issue until LBPV came along since he can't have both his main and secondary account on the same device like with a PS3. In other words, without winning a new crown, he won't be able to use it on LBPV.

OmegaSlayer
09-29-2012, 06:16 PM
I can vouch for him. The issue is that he doesn't have the crown on his main account, Tyler_stewart, he redeemed the code on a secondary account. It's not been an issue until LBPV came along since he can't have both his main and secondary account on the same device like with a PS3. In other words, without winning a new crown, he won't be able to use it on LBPV.

That's ok then :)
Tyler will be entitled to win a Crown too :)

Pookachoo
09-29-2012, 06:26 PM
Reminders:
* Levels must be published in the 10 day period between 12.00AM GMT on 22nd October and 11:59PM GMT on 31st October 2012.
* You may publish a locked beta level for play testing, but these should be deleted and replaced with your official contest entry during the publishing window. Your official entry must have a publishing date within the window.


here's my submisson for LBPC9 not done yet but heart and keep a look out for it.

http://lbp.me/v/fs1xjx

Since your level is locked that's okay :)

bluesteel789
09-29-2012, 07:29 PM
hmm, I tried using a series of cogs with powered Cog A turning unpowered B turning unpowered C. However, the first cog just couldn't power so many cogs.... Are we allowed to use extra motor bolts to 'support' them- so the cog series are still connected, but they are also powered so that it runs smoothly?

Wafflegod345
09-29-2012, 07:37 PM
Can our power source be the sun? as in using solar panels? That would be cool, bet no one els thought of that! Yeah, so the wire would link into the bu-.... never mind don't wanna giv to much away! But can we use the Sun, it would have a motorbolt on it making it shine and spin?

L-I-M-I
09-29-2012, 07:37 PM
That's ok then :)
Tyler will be entitled to win a Crown too :)

Does this mean anyone who uses a seperate account on a Vita be allowed to win a 2nd crown?

ALS_TheGamer
09-29-2012, 08:12 PM
Good luck everyone! I can't wait to play the levels of this new contest, I hope creators who enter have fun at creating and enjoy it. :)

PGdafrog
09-29-2012, 08:28 PM
Can our power source be the sun? as in using solar panels? That would be cool, bet no one els thought of that! Yeah, so the wire would link into the bu-.... never mind don't wanna giv to much away! But can we use the Sun, it would have a motorbolt on it making it shine and spin?

I'm not on the Contest Crew so this isn't official. However, I don't think that would be allowed as the contest seems to want you to create things that affect each other through kinetic energy (movement) whereas a solar panel produces electrical energy when light energy is input. You might be allowed to use a dynamo, which turns kinetic energy into electrical energy, at one point in you level. Though, as I said, i'm not a member of the Crew so don't quote me on that. :p

Wolffy123
09-29-2012, 08:50 PM
I feel bad for Omega right now.. Being riddled with 930224729 questions a day.

Lets make it 930224730, shall we?

Does that count as a question? ^

How about that? ^

How abou-- Wait.. Okay, make this 930224734.

Are we allowed to emit marbles? They emit into a tube-ish thingy and are sent out 1 at a time, making it seem like an unlimited supply. I remember reading that we can do this, but I don't remember if you said we can only do it with bombs or not..

Kruisers
09-29-2012, 08:50 PM
Are you allowed to have one trail that returns to the power source and then use it to start a second trail, or would it have to continue from the last motif?

OmegaSlayer
09-29-2012, 09:02 PM
hmm, I tried using a series of cogs with powered Cog A turning unpowered B turning unpowered C. However, the first cog just couldn't power so many cogs.... Are we allowed to use extra motor bolts to 'support' them- so the cog series are still connected, but they are also powered so that it runs smoothly?

the cogs given as a prize are really heavy.
IF I should create in this contest I would
A) make my own simple cogs in cardbord or something else very light
B) not place more than 2 cogs in series ;)


Can our power source be the sun? as in using solar panels? That would be cool, bet no one els thought of that! Yeah, so the wire would link into the bu-.... never mind don't wanna giv to much away! But can we use the Sun, it would have a motorbolt on it making it shine and spin?

You're mah hero.
Stop the contest, he has already won :)


Does this mean anyone who uses a seperate account on a Vita be allowed to win a 2nd crown?

NO
BUT
If the admin of a big forum that is ALSO a guy that holds contest vouche for "you", I'm led to think that there's something gone very wrong and that there's no other way to solve things.
Tyler won the Crown AND has an awesomesauce pin for http://littlesigplanet.com , so I don't think he has to resort to tricks to get a Crown AND we should respect him for taking the hard way to gain a Crown and not going to whine and complain to StevenI.
As I said, if one of the 10 more representative people of the LBP Community vouches for him, not only me, not only the Contest Crew, but the whole Community should trust his honesty blindly.


I feel bad for Omega right now.. Being riddled with 930224729 questions a day.

Lets make it 930224730, shall we?

Does that count as a question? ^

How about that? ^

How abou-- Wait.. Okay, make this 930224734.

Are we allowed to emit marbles? They emit into a tube-ish thingy and are sent out 1 at a time, making it seem like an unlimited supply. I remember reading that we can do this, but I don't remember if you said we can only do it with bombs or not..

Don't worry, I no sleepz in a bed :)
*snore*
You can emit marbles/basketballs/tennisballs/chicken legs in a "box" unlimitedly, then drop them where you desire when the signal open the trap door and use a device/power-up to throw/launch them where you need.


Are you allowed to have one trail that returns to the power source and then use it to start a second trail, or would it have to continue from the last motif?

Why not?
Remember that the whole mechanism must be believable and not fishy and we're fine. :)

thespacemonkey187
09-29-2012, 09:24 PM
Omega has been a boss answering all the questions. :)

I am really excited to see what everyone comes up with when the levels start coming in. I just know you are all going to astound us with your creativity.

Good luck to each and every creator who plans to enter.

Tynamite
09-29-2012, 09:32 PM
I see everyone talking about Goldberg machines ... my entire level so far is all connected by actual objects ... I need to start throwing stuff and hitting things to change it up a bit. Thanks for asking all these questions for ideas :P

OmegaSlayer
09-29-2012, 09:35 PM
Omega has been a boss answering all the questions. :)

I am really excited to see what everyone comes up with when the levels start coming in. I just know you are all going to astound us with your creativity.

Good luck to each and every creator who plans to enter.

So stop asking question guys and get your bums on the PS3 :p

Really guys, feel free to ask whatever you want.
I would hate to see your hours of work wasted because you didn't asked here something that the Crew could make clear :(

Wolffy123
09-29-2012, 09:49 PM
Don't worry, I no sleepz in a bed :)
*snore*
You can emit marbles/basketballs/tennisballs/chicken legs in a "box" unlimitedly, then drop them where you desire when the signal open the trap door and use a device/power-up to throw/launch them where you need.

Do we HAVE to use a power-up with them? Or can they roll around?

FYI
09-29-2012, 11:14 PM
It just so happens I have a rube goldberg.

Question, If there is a spot where under is own power an object moves down some stairs and after hitting a switch, it switches layers, still under its own power mind you, would that be allowed.

Wafflegod345
09-29-2012, 11:51 PM
You're mah hero.
Stop the contest, he has already won :)

Sweet, I won!! Is that a yesto my briliant idea?

Tynamite
09-30-2012, 03:46 AM
How do you guys feel about a level not having too much danger? Like, if you fall down, you will just fall to the floor (not level floor, a platform) and you will have to pop or find a way to get squished. Or should I add DANGER?

OmegaSlayer
09-30-2012, 05:20 AM
Do we HAVE to use a power-up with them? Or can they roll around?

it's up to you, you can do both


It just so happens I have a rube goldberg.

Question, If there is a spot where under is own power an object moves down some stairs and after hitting a switch, it switches layers, still under its own power mind you, would that be allowed.

If there's a reason to switch layer, yes :)


You're mah hero.
Stop the contest, he has already won :)

Sweet, I won!! Is that a yesto my briliant idea?

http://nooooooooooooooo.com/vader.jpg


How do you guys feel about a level not having too much danger? Like, if you fall down, you will just fall to the floor (not level floor, a platform) and you will have to pop or find a way to get squished. Or should I add DANGER?

You can have all the dangers you want AND hazards can affect level by contact

TheUltraDeino
09-30-2012, 07:11 AM
Seems too complicated to me...


When are you guys gonna do Vita contests? =P

Pookachoo
09-30-2012, 07:40 AM
I've updated the FAQ in the original post with some of the questions asked so far regarding the building requirements. These seemed likely to come up again as more creators join in the fun.
This thread is a pretty long read by now, so hopefully the FAQ update will save a little time :)

goranilic
09-30-2012, 07:55 AM
I can vouch for him. The issue is that he doesn't have the crown on his main account, Tyler_stewart, he redeemed the code on a secondary account. It's not been an issue until LBPV came along since he can't have both his main and secondary account on the same device like with a PS3. In other words, without winning a new crown, he won't be able to use it on LBPV.


That's ok then :)
Tyler will be entitled to win a Crown too :)

My apologies to all participants, but something here is not clear to me and I have to ask a question. From what I have read, without further complicating, this looks like this (to me):
- He's got a crown on a secondary account
- Now he wants the crown on the main account too
Why would this be justified and allowed ?

... or :


Does this mean anyone who uses a seperate account on a Vita be allowed to win a 2nd crown?

OmegaSlayer
09-30-2012, 08:13 AM
My apologies to all participants, but something here is not clear to me and I have to ask a question. From what I have read, without further complicating, this looks like this (to me):
- He's got a crown on a secondary account
- Now he wants the crown on the main account too
Why would this be justified and allowed ?

... or :

again...

NO
BUT
If the admin of a big forum that is ALSO a guy that holds contest vouche for "you", I'm led to think that there's something gone very wrong and that there's no other way to solve things.
Tyler won the Crown AND has an awesomesauce pin for http://littlesigplanet.com , so I don't think he has to resort to tricks to get a Crown AND we should respect him for taking the hard way to gain a Crown and not going to whine and complain to StevenI.
As I said, if one of the 10 more representative people of the LBP Community vouches for him, not only me, not only the Contest Crew, but the whole Community should trust his honesty blindly.

MM is very caring about not making favours to friends and Bagheadinc knows.
If something would be fishy he would be responsible.
I don't think Baggie wants to ruin his brlliant hard working reputations, so if he backed Tyler, we should assume that there's a very good reason.

goranilic
09-30-2012, 09:07 AM
again...


MM is very caring about not making favours to friends and Bagheadinc knows.
If something would be fishy he would be responsible.
I don't think Baggie wants to ruin his brlliant hard working reputations, so if he backed Tyler, we should assume that there's a very good reason.

Yes, I have read this answer before, but I deliberately simplify things. In the eyes of others it will look just as permission to one individual to gain another crown, while others are not entitled to it. All this talk because I'm sure that you don't want participants to think that someone has an exclusive treatment.

alain251
09-30-2012, 09:15 AM
This contest looks really great, but very hard too...

I'll try my best ^^ And good luck for all participants ;-)

OrwellianStuff
09-30-2012, 12:15 PM
*jumps in excitement* Mechanics? Woo! This contest I might just want to join :D

One clarifying thing - there's a ban in the rules on the player directly operating buttons and switches. Does this apply to ALL possible switches - for instance, would it be a bad thing if I built a, say, a mechanical lever that when pulled by the sackboy, swings a gear-on-a-post into the middle of a gearbox clockwork, activating something :D - or does it just apply to logical switches and buttons?

ForgottenEnigma
09-30-2012, 12:38 PM
*jumps in excitement* Mechanics? Woo! This contest I might just want to join :D

One clarifying thing - there's a ban in the rules on the player directly operating buttons and switches. Does this apply to ALL possible switches - for instance, would it be a bad thing if I built a, say, a mechanical lever that when pulled by the sackboy, swings a gear-on-a-post into the middle of a gearbox clockwork, activating something :D - or does it just apply to logical switches and buttons?

Home-made switches are fine, the example you gave would be acceptable as it would advance the kinetic motion...

what we don't want to see is something happen for no reason (e.g a red button is pressed and a gear magically starts turning)

OrwellianStuff
09-30-2012, 01:43 PM
Perfect, thanks OmegaSlayer.

Oh - and one more thing. You say the guideline time limit is 5 to 10 minutes. Is it permissible though to do any/some/all of these?:

a) Level is passable in 10 minutes or so, but to find all possible secrets and things, you need more time than that.
b) Add a 10 minute time limit..
c) .. and perhaps make the level a VS level. :)
d) ..and even after that, perhaps add a lever/button/switch/squishable sackbot/menu for an adjustable time limit (after which are no cutscenes or interruptions whatsoever).

I should be fairly set after I get answers for these questions :D

OmegaSlayer
09-30-2012, 02:39 PM
Perfect, thanks OmegaSlayer.

Oh - and one more thing. You say the guideline time limit is 5 to 10 minutes. Is it permissible though to do any/some/all of these?:

a) Level is passable in 10 minutes or so, but to find all possible secrets and things, you need more time than that.
b) Add a 10 minute time limit..
c) .. and perhaps make the level a VS level. :)
d) ..and even after that, perhaps add a lever/button/switch/squishable sackbot/menu for an adjustable time limit (after which are no cutscenes or interruptions whatsoever).

I should be fairly set after I get answers for these questions :D

a) yes
b) ok
c) ??? why?
d) why not the good ol' custom sticker that would also allow you twice the plays?

SuperROBO1
09-30-2012, 03:52 PM
I'm gonna pass on this one... You guys just know how to give us a hard time!

bonner123
09-30-2012, 05:51 PM
I can understand having obstacles being powered by one source, but the entire level might be a bit much. I think that rule can really hinder variety. I mean, what happens if I want to use pistons, bolts and winches but I'm limited to one source? I have several ideas regarding obstacles with a sole source of movement but there's no way they can be connected. Even Interkinetic (the obvious inspiration) had multiple sources. At any rate, I'll wait to see what people come up with. I think it's a bit too tedious for me to participate in seriously but I'm sure others will have a blast.

OmegaSlayer
09-30-2012, 06:34 PM
I can understand having obstacles being powered by one source, but the entire level might be a bit much. I think that rule can really hinder variety. I mean, what happens if I want to use pistons, bolts and winches but I'm limited to one source? I have several ideas regarding obstacles with a sole source of movement but there's no way they can be connected. Even Interkinetic (the obvious inspiration) had multiple sources. At any rate, I'll wait to see what people come up with. I think it's a bit too tedious for me to participate in seriously but I'm sure others will have a blast.

you're mising the point, the power source sends a signal that in a way or another powers other devices in a cascade effect.

bonner123
09-30-2012, 07:00 PM
Oh, I think I understand. Thanks for clearing that up. :P

Jonarrthan
09-30-2012, 08:01 PM
final question can we make a sackbot be the power sorce for example run on a wheel?

that probably won't be powerful enough to power an entire level. maybe if you have the sackbot running on a wheel to power the power source but don't know if that is in the rules

Rogar
09-30-2012, 09:28 PM
I mean, what happens if I want to use pistons, bolts and winches but I'm limited to one source? I have several ideas regarding obstacles with a sole source of movement but there's no way they can be connected.

Just wanted to add there are ways to convert linear into rotational motion and vice versa. This is what happens in a combustion engine, for example. Have a look around on wikipedia, at the crankshaft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crankshaft) and the camshaft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camshaft) for example.

Tynamite
09-30-2012, 10:01 PM
The more people who pass on this ... the better chance I have :P

I've stopped creating obstacles at this point to consider how my level is going to look ... I've spent too many hours today redesigning my level to look nice. I think I've finally got something.

I wish blogging our level progress was a requirement, like on PL. I liked doing that for the PLCC contests and I would do that here ... but there is nothing to motivate me to actually do it because it's not required. Do it for the next contest :P

bonner123
09-30-2012, 10:16 PM
Just wanted to add there are ways to convert linear into rotational motion and vice versa. This is what happens in a combustion engine, for example. Have a look around on wikipedia, at the crankshaft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crankshaft) and the camshaft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camshaft) for example.

Well, I know it can be done IRL, I was just a bit skeptical of how well it could be done in game... but now I have a few more ideas. Excellent.

Today really isn't a good day for me. I'm just being pretty derpy so don't mind me, lol.

ricksnun
09-30-2012, 11:04 PM
so, if i understood so far using movers are out of question right?

ForgottenEnigma
09-30-2012, 11:16 PM
so, if i understood so far using movers are out of question right?

correct... no magical movements please

Tynamite
09-30-2012, 11:17 PM
so, if i understood so far using movers are out of question right?

Not if you secretly use it.

yugnar
10-01-2012, 12:01 AM
Not if you secretly use it.

Jeje yeah, I was thinking the same. What about a creator uses some movers to actually make one of their contraptions to work, and make it look like it's being powered by the level's contraptions like stated in the rules?
Can you ask the creators to show you their level in Create to be sure they don't cheat, or how will you be able to be sure about that?

Wolffy123
10-01-2012, 12:08 AM
Jeje yeah, I was thinking the same. What about a creator uses some movers to actually make one of their contraptions to work, and make it look like it's being powered by the level's contraptions like stated in the rules?
Can you ask the creators to show you their level in Create to be sure they don't cheat, or how will you be able to be sure about that?

I'm not quite sure, but I do recall Omega saying something about "It has to be believable" .. So if you HAVE to use a mover of some sort, make it look believable, and make it look real. I doubt they will ask to jump into create. That would take forever.

Tynamite
10-01-2012, 12:19 AM
I've been reluctant to ask:

Kind of what yugnar said, if we still follow the rules, have everything connected, believable and all, but assist our contraption a little bit to make it work fluently? Let's say I have a cog spinning on a bolt, and over time, it is just weak because of all the pressure, can I help assist that cog with a rotator?

OmegaSlayer
10-01-2012, 05:22 AM
The more people who pass on this ... the better chance I have :P

I've stopped creating obstacles at this point to consider how my level is going to look ... I've spent too many hours today redesigning my level to look nice. I think I've finally got something.

I wish blogging our level progress was a requirement, like on PL. I liked doing that for the PLCC contests and I would do that here ... but there is nothing to motivate me to actually do it because it's not required. Do it for the next contest :P

we'll never do it.
It's one of Planetarium uniqueness, together with the use of a prize object.
It's wonderful that each site has its unique contests and we don't steal ideas between friends :)


Not if you secretly use it.


Jeje yeah, I was thinking the same. What about a creator uses some movers to actually make one of their contraptions to work, and make it look like it's being powered by the level's contraptions like stated in the rules?
Can you ask the creators to show you their level in Create to be sure they don't cheat, or how will you be able to be sure about that?

Remember that I'm not the only one judging.
We have 4 MMPick quality judges ;)
Though I can sense latency like people smells onion and with my bare hands I can kill more flies than Myiagi sensei.
We won't ask to show levels in create mode, but what wll seem fishy will lose point in the final judgement.
Easier, quicker aaaaaaaaand, the part I like more, MORE CRUEL :p


I've been reluctant to ask:

Kind of what yugnar said, if we still follow the rules, have everything connected, believable and all, but assist our contraption a little bit to make it work fluently? Let's say I have a cog spinning on a bolt, and over time, it is just weak because of all the pressure, can I help assist that cog with a rotator?

I said that you can bring the initial signal to power up a device many many times.

Liquid_Blood_
10-01-2012, 07:03 AM
More questions!! :D


I said that you can bring the initial signal to power up a device many many times.

1. What's this talk of 'signals'? Doesn't everything have to be powered mechanically/physically, or is there, like, electricity involved?

2. I'm still unclear on the definition of "obstacle" in the official rules..

3. Let's say my level is full of kinetic mechanisms, but I want to keep a player from going down a path without blocking it. Am I allowed to turn the floor beyond a certain point to plasma, or would that not count enough as an "obstacle" "always in motion"?

4. Regarding emitters, would it be alright to have custom objects continually dropping from the sky, so long as they travel through the level's cause and effect motion right after they land?

Thank you for taking the time to answer these questions. I'm sure when the rules were written, they couldn't universally account for every concept that us creators would come up with.

OmegaSlayer
10-01-2012, 07:44 AM
More questions!! :D

1. What's this talk of 'signals'? Doesn't everything have to be powered mechanically/physically, or is there, like, electricity involved?

2. I'm still unclear on the definition of "obstacle" in the official rules..

3. Let's say my level is full of kinetic mechanisms, but I want to keep a player from going down a path without blocking it. Am I allowed to turn the floor beyond a certain point to plasma, or would that not count enough as an "obstacle" "always in motion"?

4. Regarding emitters, would it be alright to have custom objects continually dropping from the sky, so long as they travel through the level's cause and effect motion right after they land?

Thank you for taking the time to answer these questions. I'm sure when the rules were written, they couldn't universally account for every concept that us creators would come up with.

Ok...our rules are made to be flexible and encourage creativity, that's why we will always leave loopholes that smart creators can exploit ;)
I really don't want to give you a full disclosure of what you can do but I want you to stop and think.
What's a power source?
How a power source relates to energy?
What is energy?
How many kind of energy do you know?
How many kind of energy can you simulate in LBP?

2. Obstacle is every gameplay passage/section that requires the player an imput that is different than simple left/right movement at player's desired pace.

3. If you activate the floor hazard with a previous device, yes you can.

4. Custom objects are ok, though watch for the lag.
I remind once again that you can fire ONLY game standard projectyles if you use the Creatinator

Liquid_Blood_
10-01-2012, 07:52 AM
Thanks Omega, that really helps me!

I think I may have been a little unclear on question 3. To restate, I have platforms and areas in my level that I want non-player objects to pass through, but that need to be inaccessible to the player. Is it alright to have parts of the floor or wall always be plasma, just to keep players from going that way, or would that violate the rules?

Also, I notice people asking about in-out movers. While I don't plan on using them myself, I am curious to know, how could someone get an in-out mover to physically interact with any other type of movement?

OmegaSlayer
10-01-2012, 08:05 AM
Thanks Omega, that really helps me!

I think I may have been a little unclear on question 3. To restate, I have platforms and areas in my level that I want non-player objects to pass through, but that need to be inaccessible to the player. Is it alright to have parts of the floor or wall always be plasma, just to keep players from going that way, or would that violate the rules?

Also, I notice people asking about in-out movers. While I don't plan on using them myself, I am curious to know, how could someone get an in-out mover to physically interact with any other type of movement?

You replied to yourself, if the player is not meant to go through them, then they're not obstacles ;)

About IN/OUT movers...
I honestly don't know how they can be used either but we don't want to cripple the creators' creativty, and we're just wlling to be very surprised.
Remember that the Contest Crew rules are made to encourage creativty ;)

BillyCrash100
10-01-2012, 10:53 AM
very hard concept... is the contest valid for all version of lbp - ps3 - psvita ?

The level must be playable in LBP2, so I guess it can be on LBP2 and maybe on LBP (not sure).

ForgottenEnigma
10-01-2012, 11:03 AM
The level must be playable in LBP2, so I guess it can be on LBP2 and maybe on LBP (not sure).

if you publish the level on lbp1 it can be played on lbp2 so it will count, what we are not accepting for this contest is levels made on psp or vita.

RJA00000
10-01-2012, 02:12 PM
Two questions that remain unclear to me:

1. Are we allowed to have a stationary hazard of some sort, be it spikes, fire, electricity, etc. along the floor to kill the player if they fall?

2. From what I gather, you want for each obstacle in the level to be moving as a result of the power source in some way, however, OmegaSlayer replied to this question...

Another example: A 2 layer piece of cardboard is fixed in place and moves in and and, each time one of the sides block motion from a specific rotating cog (both powered by the power source), which makes both of them do something separate.
Once again, is this allowed?
...with this:

If you justify the movement yes
Now, the gears are not really causing the block to move in and out at all, it is just some clever timing or use of tags. So to my understanding, as long is the mechanisms look like maybe they could be working because of the power source, it is fair to use? Because the example above is no different than doing something that Tyler said - having additional movers or rotators to increase the fluency of the motions.

OmegaSlayer
10-01-2012, 02:22 PM
Two questions that remain unclear to me:

1. Are we allowed to have a stationary hazard of some sort, be it spikes, fire, electricity, etc. along the floor to kill the player if they fall?

2. From what I gather, you want for each obstacle in the level to be moving as a result of the power source in some way, however, OmegaSlayer replied to this question...

...with this:

Now, the gears are not really causing the block to move in and out at all, it is just some clever timing or use of tags. So to my understanding, as long is the mechanisms look like maybe they could be working because of the power source, it is fair to use? Because the example above is no different than doing something that Tyler said - having additional movers or rotators to increase the fluency of the motions.

1. ok
2. What's a power source?
How a power source relates to energy?
What is energy?
How many kind of energy do you know?
How many kind of energy can you simulate in LBP?

Liquid_Blood_
10-01-2012, 03:47 PM
2. What's a power source?
How a power source relates to energy?
What is energy?
How many kind of energy do you know?
How many kind of energy can you simulate in LBP?

Ohhhh, I think I just realized what Omega's getting at. There are other 'physical' interactions that can be created besides motion, such as putting out fire with water. That's the first one that comes to my mind, but there are probably several others from which to derive level concepts. So, that makes the requirements a little more open-ended than at first glance.

OmegaSlayer
10-01-2012, 04:48 PM
:rolleyes:
If we tell you every single thing you can do we will kill your creativity.
And that's exactly what we do NOT want to do ;)

Wolffy123
10-01-2012, 07:07 PM
:rolleyes:
If we tell you every single thing you can do we will kill your creativity.
And that's exactly what we do NOT want to do ;)

Totally understand this, but I hafta ask.. Can we simulate the transfer of "Electricity" travelling through wires from sensors?

OmegaSlayer
10-01-2012, 09:03 PM
Totally understand this, but I hafta ask.. Can we simulate the transfer of "Electricity" travelling through wires from sensors?

;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Maybe something more ingenious...I said hazards can move via contact.
Is there an electricity hazard in LBP?
:rolleyes:

RJA00000
10-01-2012, 10:19 PM
;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Maybe something more ingenious...I said hazards can move via contact.
Is there an electricity hazard in LBP?
:rolleyes:

Heh. Now I get what you mean.

EDIT: One more question. You say that, regarding emitters, you want it to be believable and for it not to be infinite emitting. Does that rule out, for example, emitting bits of block to form a conveyor belt powered by the power source?

IamKillax
10-01-2012, 10:36 PM
& i thought we'd be competing to make the best train level :/..
At first it's like WAHHH how am i supposed to make everything move from 1 power source
& then it's like OHHHH this is LBP :)

Pookachoo
10-01-2012, 11:36 PM
Heh. Now I get what you mean.

EDIT: One more question. You say that, regarding emitters, you want it to be believable and for it not to be infinite emitting. Does that rule out, for example, emitting bits of block to form a conveyor belt powered by the power source?

We don't want to see blocks just popping out of thin air.

Wolffy123
10-02-2012, 12:21 AM
;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Maybe something more ingenious...I said hazards can move via contact.
Is there an electricity hazard in LBP?
:rolleyes:

;D I see what you mean..

Liquid_Blood_
10-02-2012, 12:31 AM
We don't want to see blocks just popping out of thin air.

Curses!, that's going to mean some pretty serious re-working for me. I have objects falling from the sky, which then go through a circuit of cause/effect motion. They need to be continually emitted at a constant timing for the entire mechanism to work, so I'm not sure what whould be the appropriate approach....... ummm... shoot.

RJA00000
10-02-2012, 12:42 AM
We don't want to see blocks just popping out of thin air.

It was said earlier that you could have a container that endlessly fills with bombs that pop out of thin air, though, so what's the difference? And you won't see the blocks being emitted.

ForgottenEnigma
10-02-2012, 12:59 AM
It was said earlier that you could have a container that endlessly fills with bombs that pop out of thin air, though, so what's the difference? And you won't see the blocks being emitted.

we said you could emit items in the "projectile" section of your tools bag... bombs fall into this category.

RJA00000
10-02-2012, 01:32 AM
we said you could emit items in the "projectile" section of your tools bag... bombs fall into this category.

I see. I'll do it so that the blocks are looped back and reused then.

Pookachoo
10-02-2012, 01:41 AM
It was said earlier that you could have a container that endlessly fills with bombs that pop out of thin air, though, so what's the difference? And you won't see the blocks being emitted.



You can emit marbles/basketballs/tennisballs/chicken legs in a "box" unlimitedly, then drop them where you desire when the signal open the trap door and use a device/power-up to throw/launch them where you need.

For example: you could have a container of blocks that refills itself, and then place those blocks.

The idea is that you'd have a container full of objects that never runs out, but we still don't want to see these objects pop out of thin air.

Edit to clarify the use of emitters:
The example of a container that refills itself requires player interaction. This could yield a limited source of additional power as part of the gameplay (such as tossing a bomb to destroy a barrier) and that is allowed.
An infinite emitter that requires no player interaction could be used as an additional, constant power source - that is not allowed.
Likewise, you may equip the player with a Creationator (standard projectiles only) as this is interactive.

Bremnen
10-02-2012, 10:05 AM
Omega, can you clarify what you mean by "simulating" and the whole electricity thing? It sounds like you're saying it's ok to have multiple power sources as long as they look like they're caused by the original power source, and that it's ok to simulate electricity(thereby powering up your whole level, equaling infinite power sources) which would defeat the whole purpose of using one power source.(and ruin the whole idea of using kinetic motion) :/

Having a line of electrified material moving between two objects to simulate electricity and turn on a motor bolt or something sounds like cheating to me.

To prevent cheating, you could pick a handful of finalists and then ask to check their level in create mode, anyone who cheated is disqualified and you pick the winner from whoever didn't. That way you don't have to check every entry but can still keep things fair.

RJA00000
10-02-2012, 12:52 PM
For example: you could have a container of blocks that refills itself, and then place those blocks.

The idea is that you'd have a container full of objects that never runs out, but we still don't want to see these objects pop out of thin air.

Edit to clarify the use of emitters:
The example of a container that refills itself requires player interaction. This could yield a limited source of additional power as part of the gameplay (such as tossing a bomb to destroy a barrier) and that is allowed.
An infinite emitter that requires no player interaction could be used as an additional, constant power source - that is not allowed.
Likewise, you may equip the player with a Creationator (standard projectiles only) as this is interactive.

Even if it isn't used as a power source? You see, I have it set up to emit little portions of the ceiling with cog teeth in them. Directly after being emitted (which the player does not see), a cog powered by the power source sets it into motion where it later powers future cogs.

OmegaSlayer
10-02-2012, 01:33 PM
Omega, can you clarify what you mean by "simulating" and the whole electricity thing? It sounds like you're saying it's ok to have multiple power sources as long as they look like they're caused by the original power source, and that it's ok to simulate electricity(thereby powering up your whole level, equaling infinite power sources) which would defeat the whole purpose of using one power source.(and ruin the whole idea of using kinetic motion) :/

Having a line of electrified material moving between two objects to simulate electricity and turn on a motor bolt or something sounds like cheating to me.

To prevent cheating, you could pick a handful of finalists and then ask to check their level in create mode, anyone who cheated is disqualified and you pick the winner from whoever didn't. That way you don't have to check every entry but can still keep things fair.

I see where you come from and deeply appreciate your position and concern.
But we have to leave the contest as open as possible to every range of skill as you might understand.
It's obvious that the smartest, more ingenuious and more brilliant level design will be favoured over cheap design choice.
That's why I keep saying, make things the most believable possible.
We give guidelines, then it's up to each one's creativity.
Results of the past contests often showed that, in order to win, a creator must challenge himself more than challenge other.

@RJA
I don't know if understood 100% what you mean, the whole mechanic, (because of my poor English), sorry, so please wait that Dav1d, pooka or space will give you an answer.
Don't want to give you a wrong info because I didn't understood correctly.

RJA00000
10-02-2012, 03:19 PM
42084

A picture, as it may help. The "cart" things are emitted behind the block, are put into position (thank gravity), and are set into full motion by the cog, which is powered originally by the power source.

EDIT: Much more clear to me now. I've added a lever-thingy that gets periodically pushed by certain teeth from the cogs, which then emits these carts at their starting point before rolling onscreen. Thanks!

OmegaSlayer
10-02-2012, 03:26 PM
42084

A picture, as it may help. The "cart" things are emitted behind the block, are put into position (thank gravity), and are set into full motion by the cog, which is powered originally by the power source.

Ok, I see now.
You don't have to reply here or to me, but to yourself...
The question is: "Why/How do/are these carts emitted?"

You guys should have realized that you haven't got lots of limits beside credibility.
Also, the more the level will operate on true kinetic force and inertia the more we will be impressed.

Pookachoo
10-02-2012, 07:13 PM
A creator messaged me with a question about using emitters in a specific way, and I'm posting the main part of my answer here to help clarify for everyone. (The specific question was asked in private so as not to reveal details about that creator's design)


When objects are emitted during gameplay, you shouldn't be thinking "where the heck did that come from?" - it should feel like a cognitive part of the level. If the player is involved in the cause and effect then it feels more believable.
Play your own level with as much objectivity as possible. If you feel that it's believable and fitting the parameters on the competition, then it probably is.

KomodoBrothers
10-02-2012, 09:04 PM
Does it have to be a chain reaction? Or can the entire level be controlled by one thing? Example: a rotating level that spins with a single motor bolt.

Pookachoo
10-02-2012, 09:44 PM
Does it have to be a chain reaction? Or can the entire level be controlled by one thing? Example: a rotating level that spins with a single motor bolt.

That's fine :)

Rogar
10-02-2012, 10:03 PM
I have a cunning planidea... :)

So, I was wondering, would it be okay if at the start of the level the player needs to perform a few simple tasks in order to start the single power source before he can proceed?

Pookachoo
10-02-2012, 10:33 PM
I have a cunning planidea... :)

So, I was wondering, would it be okay if at the start of the level the player needs to perform a few simple tasks in order to start the single power source before he can proceed?

We said that you could have a short intro cutscene, so if you want to have a short playable intro that's okay too.

ForgottenEnigma
10-02-2012, 10:36 PM
I have a cunning planidea... :)

So, I was wondering, would it be okay if at the start of the level the player needs to perform a few simple tasks in order to start the single power source before he can proceed?

well simply put... we won't judge anything that happens in the level before the initial power source (with the possible exception of asthetics and sound) as we are not looking for that in the contest requirments, so you can, but if it's too long or too irrelevant to the design brief it may impact the level's score in a negative fashion.

Also... I'm the one with the cunning plans round here... remember when I lifted up the sea for the under-water contest...? genius... I've got my eye on you

*evil cackle*

oh wait... I'm a judge now, Hubbie told me to behave and play nice or I'd have to go mine cookies... yeah... I said mine cookies... next to the milk waterfalls... you know... in the land of milk and cookies... where did you think Hubbies food came from? Why all you looking at me like that... um... awkward

tell ya what... I'll reveal my cunning plan for this contest when the deadline passes.

XD

Wolffy123
10-02-2012, 11:55 PM
So, it's okay to have electricity wires and stuff if there is a justified reason for it? I'm not giving away what I have in mind, it's a secret :O

EDIT: Just making sure.. We can have platforms that aren't moving that the player has to walk on, right?

KomodoBrothers
10-03-2012, 12:41 AM
Just had a marvelous idea, expect an entry from me! It will be fab!

OmegaSlayer
10-03-2012, 05:47 AM
I have a cunning planidea... :)

So, I was wondering, would it be okay if at the start of the level the player needs to perform a few simple tasks in order to start the single power source before he can proceed?

THOUGH...remember that you should interact with powerups, no lever pulling/pushing, no button pressing ;)


well simply put... we won't judge anything that happens in the level before the initial power source (with the possible exception of asthetics and sound) as we are not looking for that in the contest requirments, so you can, but if it's too long or too irrelevant to the design brief it may impact the level's score in a negative fashion.

Also... I'm the one with the cunning plans round here... remember when I lifted up the sea for the under-water contest...? genius... I've got my eye on you

*evil cackle*

oh wait... I'm a judge now, Hubbie told me to behave and play nice or I'd have to go mine cookies... yeah... I said mine cookies... next to the milk waterfalls... you know... in the land of milk and cookies... where did you think Hubbies food came from? Why all you looking at me like that... um... awkward

tell ya what... I'll reveal my cunning plan for this contest when the deadline passes.

XD

And now you all know why we hired Dav1d0 :rolleyes:

Rogar
10-03-2012, 09:41 AM
THOUGH...remember that you should interact with powerups, no lever pulling/pushing, no button pressing ;)

No worries, it'll be legit, judging from Dav1d0's response quoted below. Totally custom, totally believable physics. :)


Home-made switches are fine, the example you gave would be acceptable as it would advance the kinetic motion...

what we don't want to see is something happen for no reason (e.g a red button is pressed and a gear magically starts turning)

Wolffy123
10-04-2012, 10:14 PM
No one has answered my questions yet :/

ForgottenEnigma
10-04-2012, 10:23 PM
So, it's okay to have electricity wires and stuff if there is a justified reason for it? I'm not giving away what I have in mind, it's a secret :O

EDIT: Just making sure.. We can have platforms that aren't moving that the player has to walk on, right?

1. well, we'd prefer you kept to kinetic energy but if it's brief and justified it shouldn't cause too much of an issue and shouldn't score negatively. Keep in mind we will be concentrating on motion though, but don't let it stop you from being creative with the idea.

2. we won't give penaltys for stationary walkways, but we will be more impressed if you can incorporate motion into them... food for thought

As a general note we'll only really score a level low if it has large deviations from the building requirments, if you keep to those as best you can there shouldn't be anything to worry about.

sorry for the delay, we've been fairly busy behind the scene recently but if you have any more questions feel free to ask and I'll promise we'll be quicker, after all, you guys and gals are the most important element in this contest, without you we would be nothing.

OmegaSlayer
10-05-2012, 05:55 AM
Well said Dave! :)

moonwire
10-05-2012, 10:03 AM
About IN/OUT movers...
I honestly don't know how they can be used either but we don't want to cripple the creators' creativty, and we're just wlling to be very surprised

Indeed. Heh :arg:

Pookachoo
10-05-2012, 07:12 PM
I've answered a creator question by PM, and to summarize for everyone:



A powered button could open a trap door for example
If you want an area to break away as the player walks across, that's that same principle as a trap door even if you use a destroyer instead of a button.

I'd also like to mention that general questions should be posted here for everyone to see. I've answered a couple questions by PM because the creator didn't want to reveal certain design details. When possible, it's in everyone's best interest to ask questions here without divulging your secret plans - that way you can get answers from other crew members as well. A few creators have asked very general questions via PM and I requested that you post those questions here, simply because there was no need to keep that information private.

I'm excited to see the levels you all create :D

Agentorange739
10-06-2012, 03:56 AM
Well I told myself I was gonna do the next contest to try to win that crown, but reading the rules and regulations, seems my first contest will end in pieces.

OmegaSlayer
10-06-2012, 06:29 AM
This contest is hard, purposedly hard.
I'll state again what I said in other contest.
There's not only one winner, yeah the Crown is just one, but if you challenge yourself to beat the best you can do, you have won a little, you gained experience and you learn something new.

L'important dans la vie ce n'est point le triomphe, mais le combat, l'essentiel ce n'est pas d'avoir vaincu mais de s'κtre bien battu. -- Pierre de Coubertin
;)

Laser675
10-06-2012, 02:17 PM
Is the Brain Crane allowed?

ForgottenEnigma
10-06-2012, 03:37 PM
Is the Brain Crane allowed?

from the rules:


Every power-up is allowed, though we request the Creatinator to be equipped only with the standard projectiles

but keep in mind,


The level must start with either a motor bolt, wobble bolt, piston or winch which will act as a power source.

and


All additional obstacles need to be powered kinetically through chain reaction.

so yes, but if it seems that the use of the brain crane is going against the spirit of the contest it may damage the level's score

moonwire
10-06-2012, 04:13 PM
Do all bounce pads need to be in motion in order to be used?

Pookachoo
10-06-2012, 05:54 PM
Do all bounce pads need to be in motion in order to be used?

Obviously you can have solid ground.
We only mean that whatever thing is moving in your level must move due to a connected power source
Bounce pads aren't required to be in motion.

KomodoBrothers
10-06-2012, 08:09 PM
Is it okay if the level is controlled by a piston, but we make it look like it is being controlled by a string?

Killerrain13
10-06-2012, 08:44 PM
This is pretty confusing...

So basically just use pistons, bolts, and anything else that makes everyone mechanical?
So the piston must be a power source? I don't quite understand on how to make the piston the power source lol.
So we can make the piston blow up and there we go the power source is gone not against the rules or anything hehe. :p
We can have the piston look like it's doing something the boom it blows up :D
I don't understand this contest... Please make it more simple to understand...

PGdafrog
10-06-2012, 09:04 PM
This is pretty confusing...

So basically just use pistons, bolts, and anything else that makes everyone mechanical?
So the piston must be a power source? I don't quite understand on how to make the piston the power source lol.
So we can make the piston blow up and there we go the power source is gone not against the rules or anything hehe. :p
We can have the piston look like it's doing something the boom it blows up :D
I don't understand this contest... Please make it more simple to understand...

It's been explained multiple times already. Re-read the thread, particularly the earlier parts, where other people where in a similar situation to you. If you still don't get it, look up some Rube Goldberg machines on Youtube to get an idea. If you're still confused, you might as well give up... :p

Pookachoo
10-06-2012, 09:22 PM
Is it okay if the level is controlled by a piston, but we make it look like it is being controlled by a string?
The building requirements state that your power source must be visible. You can also use string if you want, but we do need to see the power source.


This is pretty confusing...

So basically just use pistons, bolts, and anything else that makes everyone mechanical?
So the piston must be a power source? I don't quite understand on how to make the piston the power source lol.
So we can make the piston blow up and there we go the power source is gone not against the rules or anything hehe. :p
We can have the piston look like it's doing something the boom it blows up :D
I don't understand this contest... Please make it more simple to understand...

Please thoroughly read the building requirements and FAQ in the OP.
One power source only. That can be a piston in you want.
As stated in the OP, it will be frowned on if you emit/destroy the power source.

ps3gamer11
10-06-2012, 10:29 PM
1. Can I, use pistons for a intro, and then use a cog with a motor bolt or something for a power source, but its not part of my intro.

2. so if I use a cog as a power source, everything else has to be connected to that cog?

Sorry if these has been answered already

Pookachoo
10-06-2012, 10:42 PM
1. Can I, use pistons for a intro, and then use a cog with a motor bolt or something for a power source, but its not part of my intro.

2. so if I use a cog as a power source, everything else has to be connected to that cog?

Sorry if these has been answered already

1. You can use what you like for an intro, but keep in mind:

well simply put... we won't judge anything that happens in the level before the initial power source (with the possible exception of asthetics and sound) as we are not looking for that in the contest requirments,

2. No, as stated in the OP:

Q: Does everything in the level have to be physically connected?
A: No, we just need to see the cause and effect chain reaction powering the level. The way in which motion transfers between parts is entirely up to you.

Manny_LBP2
10-07-2012, 09:24 PM
if a pipe is emitting water projectiles and say that pipe is connected to the grounds pipe system is that ok? even though that water isnt being pumped from the source. just the plumbing of a house (andy's house backround)

OmegaSlayer
10-08-2012, 07:56 AM
If what you mean is plausible AND powered with a signal/energy from the power source, the answer is yes.
On a side note... who is andy??? :boo:

ForgottenEnigma
10-08-2012, 10:36 AM
On a side note... who is andy??? :boo:

The kid in Toy Story

OmegaSlayer
10-08-2012, 11:03 AM
o_______________________O"
What's Toy Story?

Wolffy123
10-08-2012, 03:06 PM
o_______________________O"
What's Toy Story?

Leave. Now. XD

OmegaSlayer
10-08-2012, 03:19 PM
You sound like...
Nevermind XD

Liquid_Blood_
10-08-2012, 04:23 PM
There's not only one winner, yeah the Crown is just one, but if you challenge yourself to beat the best you can do, you have won a little, you gained experience and you learn something new.

I like this^ a lot. For me, entering this contest is all about the fun of being inspired to challenge myself, growing as a creator, being part of a really cool event, and connecting with people. Also, machines... There's something strangely compelling about building these machines. The restrictions of the contest rules are leading me to come up with stuff that's way more complex and interesting than I'm used to, and I can't wait to see all the crazy stuff everyone else comes up with too. Can't wait to be surprised and go "Why didn't I think of that??" :D


EDIT: Btw, I also have this fear that I'm somehow going about building my level all wrong. From the description, it sounds like the judges are expecting levels which move in a straight line with devices affecting each other one after the next. My level however, is turning out to be this big system that has the player moving in all different directions, spreading way out and then twisting in on itself. I really hope that's okay.

yugnar
10-09-2012, 12:38 AM
I can't wait to see all the entries!!! I'm working in a level for LBL's Touch & Tilt contest right now, but with so many physics lessons I've had lately, and with such realistic create mode physics, I can't wait to see what you guys come up with, building interesting stuff with real-life mechanics, vectors, and... stuff. Hopefully it'll also make me return a bit to LBP2 and take a break from LBPV. (I've already been awarded the 720 Minute Create mode pin with no published levels. lolwut)

Pookachoo
10-09-2012, 01:52 AM
@Liquid_Blood_ We expect to see the unexpected from respected creators :p

Level layout is entirely up to each creator, and does not have to be linear.

Liquid_Blood_
10-09-2012, 06:26 PM
That's a relief. And such lovely alliteration!! Can't tell if it was intentional.

The715Gamer
10-09-2012, 08:55 PM
Can the Power Source just be a made object that you take around the level turning things on?

ForgottenEnigma
10-09-2012, 08:57 PM
Can the Power Source just be a made object that you take around the level turning things on?

no, that would defeat the purpose of the contest as there would be no need for any form of reaction...

the power source must be a motor/wobble bolt or a winch/piston at the beggining of the level, the obstacles/power transition that connects to is up to you.

forevertuesday
10-10-2012, 01:56 AM
Holy cow... This contest is hard. I spent some time this weekend trying to create a silhouette locomotion commotion level and failed miserably. Alas, work is too demanding for me to have time to participate in this awesome contest. I can't wait to try and play some of the entries.

aratiatia
10-10-2012, 04:42 AM
Question regarding these criteria:

• The portion of the level including the moving mechanics must be visible at all times.
• No mid-level cutscenes. You may have a short intro cutscene.

Can I use movie cameras on sequencers with controllers set to "on" to draw attention to key events if the above criteria are still fulfilled?

The player would be able to move about as normal, it wouldn't be a traditional cutscene with black bars, just some slick camera work.

Thanks!

OmegaSlayer
10-10-2012, 06:22 AM
The "reaction" should be so clear that it wouldn't need cutscene.
If you mean a pan/zoom out to reveal the movement it's ok. :)

Ben21
10-10-2012, 10:08 PM
Well lets say that i have water powering the cogs that run as the power source would this be acceptable? Idk if it is beacause if the water is powering the actual power source wouldn't the water be the power source and to have the water work i need to emit it and you stated about it will be frowned upon if the power souce is emmitted or destroyed.

aratiatia
10-11-2012, 12:42 AM
Well lets say that i have water powering the cogs that run as the power source would this be acceptable?



I think it's clear from this criteria (but I'm not an official!):

• The level must start with either a motor bolt, wobble bolt, piston or winch which will act as a power source.
• You may only have one power source in the level.
• The power source must be set to "visible".

OmegaSlayer
10-11-2012, 05:48 AM
Well lets say that i have water powering the cogs that run as the power source would this be acceptable? Idk if it is beacause if the water is powering the actual power source wouldn't the water be the power source and to have the water work i need to emit it and you stated about it will be frowned upon if the power souce is emmitted or destroyed.

A watermill is accepted IF its powering is believable and coherent.

Darkabbestia
10-11-2012, 01:58 PM
i made it but i'm not convinced it's really short, i've not time in this period... lot of busyness but i thinl tha i wait before pubblish it

Liquid_Blood_
10-11-2012, 04:11 PM
I know we're not allowed to have players use buttons, but what about them jumping on a custom-made 'button' (a board on springs) with an impact sensor which blows up a wall?

Also, the rules say our levels should be 5-10 minutes long. Does this include all deaths, if a player is having difficulty, or is this the time it would take to perfectly play through without dying?

ForgottenEnigma
10-11-2012, 04:20 PM
I know we're not allowed to have players use buttons, but what about them jumping on a custom-made 'button' (a board on springs) with an impact sensor which blows up a wall?

Also, the rules say our levels should be 5-10 minutes long. Does this include all deaths, if a player is having difficulty, or is this the time it would take to perfectly play through without dying?

1. custom built button contraptions are fine as long as we can see why the wall explodes after you press it

2. level time rules are generally guidelines, put quality over quantity as we won't give penalty's for levels that miss the goal (but we might if it is a serious deviation e.g 20 minutes without a "lots of death" scenario, but in that case time isn't your biggest worry, difficulty levels are), deaths or no deaths... just aim for an average end time close to the goal

DominationMags
10-11-2012, 05:29 PM
Well, this contest is no different then the others... I won't be competing in it. :p

Because

A) I have no creating skills

and

B) I don't know what "kinetic" or "locomotion" means O_______________o

Pookachoo
10-11-2012, 05:39 PM
Well, this contest is no different then the others... I won't be competing in it. :p

Because

A) I have no creating skills

and

B) I don't know what "kinetic" or "locomotion" means O_______________o

You could use this as an opportunity to hone your creative skills and learn something new :)

Liquid_Blood_
10-11-2012, 07:51 PM
1. custom built button contraptions are fine as long as we can see why the wall explodes after you press it

Alright, let's get totally specific! :) Here's a pic of the part in question (http://ia.lbp.me/img/ft/29abf1aa3a1b0aa87d80c34857827fda73b8fd96.jpg). The player jumps on the "button" springboard, which lights up the custom wire, and fills the counter. Once the counter is full, the cardboard wall explodes. All the while, the player is dodging that beam of plasma on the left, which is attached by a gear to the main power source.

Does this part follow the rules?

OmegaSlayer
10-12-2012, 05:32 AM
Alright, let's get totally specific! :) Here's a pic of the part in question (http://ia.lbp.me/img/ft/29abf1aa3a1b0aa87d80c34857827fda73b8fd96.jpg). The player jumps on the "button" springboard, which lights up the custom wire, and fills the counter. Once the counter is full, the cardboard wall explodes. All the while, the player is dodging that beam of plasma on the left, which is attached by a gear to the main power source.

Does this part follow the rules?

The Crew had a "quick" confrontation.
This is very borderline with "magic" even because Dav1d0 came up with a similar mechanic (we can't share it, sorry) that would fit better the theme.
This piece of gameplay doesn't break totally the rules but...it raised our eyebrows a bit, at least by looking at a single pic, that is not representative of a level in which what matters is the "grand scheme"

Liquid_Blood_
10-12-2012, 07:00 AM
The Crew had a "quick" confrontation.
This is very borderline with "magic" even because Dav1d0 came up with a similar mechanic (we can't share it, sorry) that would fit better the theme.
This piece of gameplay doesn't break totally the rules but...it raised our eyebrows a bit, at least by looking at a single pic, that is not representative of a level in which what matters is the "grand scheme"

Thank you for your considerate considering! I agree with you, which is why I asked. Yes, this is one small part of a level which by and large is chock full of physically kinetic, cause/effect devices. I was just trying to figure out how to get the most out of this particular plasma obstacle. OH MAN, I wish I knew what Dav1d0 came up with!! I'll put some more thought into possibly redesigning it. You guys are the best! :D

OmegaSlayer
10-12-2012, 10:03 AM
You guys are the best! :D
Thanks :blush:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT3CePDfqTc

it says: "even a pig can climb a tree when it's praised and flattered" ^___^"

nysudyrgh
10-12-2012, 09:05 PM
Semi-on topic question (Sorry if this has been asked before, please don't throw me in the forest. D: )
Will there be VITA contests in the future aswell? VITA suits me more, and I feel that I would actually have a chance in making a decent entry on LBPV. :p

ForgottenEnigma
10-13-2012, 01:20 AM
Semi-on topic question (Sorry if this has been asked before, please don't throw me in the forest. D: )
Will there be VITA contests in the future aswell? VITA suits me more, and I feel that I would actually have a chance in making a decent entry on LBPV. :p

We have discussed vita contests, but we have yet to decide how these will be set up in relation to how we have things running now. So yes there may be, but honestly, it probably won't be for a while...

but please don't take this as 100% statement, things are subject to quick changes and things might take sooner or longer to fall into line.

short answer: never say never

Kruisers
10-13-2012, 02:45 AM
This is going worse than my LBPC8 disaster. At least I could actually create something, even if it was dreadful and I had to force myself into create mode. :D I might have to not make this an entry, anything I attempt fails or is cheating when I look back at the rules

Ben21
10-13-2012, 02:58 AM
Hmmmm srry u guys the past weeks have been rough i won't be able to make the deadline since all i have is a complete level idea in my head and one dreary logo in the level. I now deserve great shame D:

ShoutVik
10-13-2012, 03:16 AM
Hmmmm srry u guys the past weeks have been rough i won't be able to make the deadline since all i have is a complete level idea in my head and one dreary logo in the level. I now deserve great shame D:

Don't sweat it, you got time. Mine has been done since a week ago.

Ben21
10-13-2012, 03:36 AM
Don't sweat it, you got time. Mine has been done since a week ago.

Honestly no i don't not without help at least anyone wanna help me out.

Buttarms
10-13-2012, 04:12 AM
A certain contestant has a secret weapon: ME!! Amazing custom music will blow you minds! (I'm not paying for the surgery.)

ShoutVik
10-13-2012, 11:34 AM
Honestly no i don't not without help at least anyone wanna help me out.

I will help... But if you win I'll be sad.. What kind of help do you need?:hood:

Tynamite
10-13-2012, 02:42 PM
How's everyone doing with their level?

I haven't worked on my level in a while, I've been slacking a bit.

Manny_LBP2
10-13-2012, 11:51 PM
ok heres another questions power rotates along with it is magnets attatched to it. these magnets attract pieces of level is this alright to have?

Pookachoo
10-14-2012, 12:20 AM
ok heres another questions power rotates along with it is magnets attatched to it. these magnets attract pieces of level is this alright to have?

I'm not sure I understand your question.

If by "magnet" you mean Tag Followers or other additional logic that acts as another power source, then no.

Or, do you mean Magnetic Key Switch (Tag Sensor)? These are allowed, but should not be used in a way that looks like magic.


Alright, let's get totally specific! :) Here's a pic of the part in question (http://ia.lbp.me/img/ft/29abf1aa3a1b0aa87d80c34857827fda73b8fd96.jpg). The player jumps on the "button" springboard, which lights up the custom wire, and fills the counter. Once the counter is full, the cardboard wall explodes. All the while, the player is dodging that beam of plasma on the left, which is attached by a gear to the main power source.

Does this part follow the rules?


The Crew had a "quick" confrontation.
This is very borderline with "magic" even because Dav1d0 came up with a similar mechanic (we can't share it, sorry) that would fit better the theme.
This piece of gameplay doesn't break totally the rules but...it raised our eyebrows a bit, at least by looking at a single pic, that is not representative of a level in which what matters is the "grand scheme"

Manny_LBP2
10-14-2012, 03:38 AM
lolz well i have 2 weeks to finish this level time to scrap up some old concepts =/

Night Angel
10-15-2012, 12:34 AM
OmegaSlayer, I don't know how you do it. Answering these questions without contradicting yourself too much is like a feat among gods :P

In terms of summarizing the oodles of confusion and questions I've skimmed over the previous 15 pages:

You can do anything as long as it's caused by something else kinetically, visibily, and comprehensibly, and moving at the time Sackboy interacts with it.

Correct?

ForgottenEnigma
10-15-2012, 01:01 AM
You can do anything as long as it's caused by something else kinetically, visibily, and comprehensibly, and moving at the time Sackboy interacts with it.

Correct?

*puts on OmegaSlayer mask*

correct, with the exception of the initial moving object can be powered by the source and not by chain reaction... but that's obvious =p

OmegaSlayer
10-15-2012, 07:47 AM
*looks at Dav1d0 with disappointment*
tsk...you forgot the wig :/

http://www.wonderlandwigs.com/362-484-large/long-black-wavy-3-4-wig-half-wig-hairpiece.jpg

Rogar
10-15-2012, 09:31 AM
You can do anything as long as it's caused by something else kinetically, visibily, and comprehensibly, and moving at the time Sackboy interacts with it.

Another exception: simulating magnetism was ruled out. Or maybe that fails for being invisible. But then gravity might also be illegal. :p

Pookachoo
10-15-2012, 07:07 PM
Another exception: simulating magnetism was ruled out. Or maybe that fails for being invisible. But then gravity might also be illegal. :p

If magnetism can be simulated without using an additional power source, that's fine.
I can't think how this would be done without looking like magic, but maybe it's possible :p

OmegaSlayer
10-15-2012, 07:34 PM
How d dynamos work? ;)

yugnar
10-15-2012, 08:01 PM
Makes me think... Magnet materials would be nice to get in a future update.

Rogar
10-15-2012, 08:18 PM
How d dynamos work? ;)

Yeah, but I was thinking even simpler. A big metal U-shape with the ends painted red. That's believable, right? :)

By the way, this is all academical, I haven't got any magnet plans (yet).

Liquid_Blood_
10-15-2012, 11:03 PM
More questions!

1. No mid-game cutscenes, but what about near the very end of the level, after the bulk of the gameplay has been completed?

2. Do we have to start right off with the mechanical gameplay, or can we set the mood with a little atmospheric walking through an environment before getting into the thick of it?

3. Do end-of-level prize-dispensers have to be hooked to the main power source? Say we want to reward the player for collecting a set number of items, or score. The device dispensing the prizes might need to have 'magic' logic attached, and a gate that opens of its own power. I feel like this should be okay, because it seems more like scenery than an obstacle, but thought I'd ask anyway. (I also just enjoy chatting with you nice people about what I'm building!)



How's everyone doing with their level?
I haven't worked on my level in a while, I've been slacking a bit.
I'm sure all your more diligent competitors will be happy to hear that... BWAHAHAA!!

ForgottenEnigma
10-15-2012, 11:45 PM
More questions!

1. No mid-game cutscenes, but what about near the very end of the level, after the bulk of the gameplay has been completed?

2. Do we have to start right off with the mechanical gameplay, or can we set the mood with a little atmospheric walking through an environment before getting into the thick of it?

3. Do end-of-level prize-dispensers have to be hooked to the main power source? Say we want to reward the player for collecting a set number of items, or score. The device dispensing the prizes might need to have 'magic' logic attached, and a gate that opens of its own power. I feel like this should be okay, because it seems more like scenery than an obstacle, but thought I'd ask anyway. (I also just enjoy chatting with you nice people about what I'm building!)



I'm sure all your more diligent competitors will be happy to hear that... BWAHAHAA!!

1+2) yes you can, but it will not be the focus of judging and so is unlikely to boost your score... although we do score on asthetics.

2) if it's too long a section we might get frustrated at having to get to the stuff we will be judging heavily.

3) I see no reason why not... as it doesn't effect gameplay, but you might score bonus points if you incorporated the dispensers into the chain reaction... although I can't promise this because it would be down to each judge's opinion but... food for thought

Liquid_Blood_
10-16-2012, 06:22 AM
Oh man, ANOTHER one from me? Yep.

Here's the part in question. (http://i1.lbp.me/img/ft/75110d67140e402833ec5d42002561cc05e1a995.jpg) The player must jump this gap while avoiding this flaming wheel which has been propelled by the power source. However, there is a secondary obstacle (those spikes), to keep the player from getting stuck if they miss the jump entirely. Is this allowed, or must those spikes be moving arbitrarily?

On a separate note, I wonder if there will be a shortage of entries, as I don't see too many other creators frequently posting questions. Of course, that might only mean I'm the most confused. :D Anyway, I continue to appreciate the help!

OmegaSlayer
10-16-2012, 07:37 AM
Idle spikes in a pit are ok :)
(seems the name of a brutal death metal song :p)

ShoutVik
10-16-2012, 11:23 PM
Idle spikes in a pit are ok :)
(seems the name of a brutal death metal song :p)

This LBPC was really fun, and it has been fun for me! I can't wait to turn my creation in. But remember mates is just a chain reaction by one power source. GLUCK. :D

Liquid_Blood_
10-16-2012, 11:41 PM
This LBPC was really fun, and it has been fun for me! I can't wait to turn my creation in. But remember mates is just a chain reaction by one power source. GLUCK. :D
It's been a lot of fun for me too. (Though I still have much to do!) I don't know what all these other folks are complaining about it being too hard, or making no sense. It's a shame really.

OmegaSlayer
10-17-2012, 03:39 PM
*enters thread, looks around*
hm...15 hours without questions
*scratches head*
this contest has suddenly become too easy :(
whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy? :boo:
*leaves severely disappointed*

ShoutVik
10-17-2012, 04:25 PM
It's been a lot of fun for me too. (Though I still have much to do!) I don't know what all these other folks are complaining about it being too hard, or making no sense. It's a shame really.

I understood the first time I read the instructions because 2 years before when I was in high school we studied this, I got an 100%. I already knew what I was signing up for and just answering this and Idea came in but my lvl is finished so I won't add it cause then from space it will go to animal? Lol not a good idea. But guys is easy just read it carefully is well explained. Just don't be the power source that turns everything on. Just 1 power source. Remember the regulation of what you have to have to qualify in :)

Valeview
10-17-2012, 07:07 PM
*enters thread, looks around*
hm...15 hours without questions
*scratches head*


If I were to make a non-kinetic based level, but instead placed the player with an "i.o.u 1 freehug" note on the scoreboard...
Would I be deducted marks? :(

ForgottenEnigma
10-17-2012, 07:37 PM
If I were to make a non-kinetic based level, but instead placed the player with an "i.o.u 1 freehug" note on the scoreboard...
Would I be deducted marks? :(

no... but that would require you to have points =p

*hugs*

Valeview
10-18-2012, 02:02 PM
no... but that would require you to have points =p

*hugs*

Does that mean I don't just get points for the i.o.u?... THIS JUDGING IS CLEARLY THE BEST DISPLAY OF JUDGING THAT HAS EVER BEEN JUDGED BY A GROUP OF JUDGES AT A JUDGING CONVENTION FOR JUDGING..

Last edited by Dav1d0; 4 hours ago at 03:47 PM

ForgottenEnigma
10-18-2012, 02:45 PM
Does that mean I don't just get points for the i.o.u?... THIS JUDGING IS CLEARLY THE BEST DISPLAY OF JUDGING THAT HAS EVER BEEN JUDGED BY A GROUP OF JUDGES AT A JUDGING CONVENTION FOR JUDGING..

no, cause you said you gave the "I.O.U." to the scoreboard.... no point in bribing that guy =p

also thankyou... for that lovely statment that totally wasn't just changed to make us seem better...

;)

*more hugs*

Valeview
10-18-2012, 02:54 PM
no, cause you said you gave the "I.O.U." to the scoreboard.... no point in bribing that guy =p

*more hugs*

I said I left it on the scoreboard, not gace it to him. Silly David. ;)

*Even more hugs*