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View Full Version : Neverynall & NinjaMicWZ Present: SEMINAL GEMINI (2x level w/ PICS)



NinjaMicWZ
01-17-2009, 01:07 AM
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=239&pictureid=1976

Nev gave me the go ahead to publish this. It's the result of two extremely creative minds, and we've each put in well over 80 hours apiece on this masterpiece of coop-creation and coop-gameplay.

http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=239&pictureid=1972

This level REQUIRES 2 players and can also use 4 (or a 3rd wheel lol), but the main innovation here is the flying paintinator technique that Nev came up with. One player flies with the jetpack, the other shoots with the paintinator.

http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=239&pictureid=1974

I designed the enemies, turrets and bosses, and nev gave me the specifications for some of them. He designed came up with the paintinator idea, designed the whole layout of the level and the plot. We both had a hand in the dialogue, and I went through and did the final touches with stickers, sounds, and decoration and fine tuning camera work and playtesting bugs. There may yet still be problems, but we'll see.

http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=239&pictureid=1973

There are some really inventive 2 player puzzles and constant action segments thanks to Nev's amazing design, and the final boss I made is quite a complex piece of machinery...

http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=239&pictureid=1971

You have no idea how difficult it was for us to accomplish this feat since we couldn't see what the other was doing and bugs in object captures made it so we couldn't send each other working items. We had to publish as copy and locked, make key levels, send back all the new stuff, playtest every little detail and repeat endlessly. At one point the thermometer was so maxed that the paintinator wouldn't even fire paintballs anymore.

http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=239&pictureid=1975

In my opinion, this is both of our finest work yet and I could never have done it by myself. Grab one of your buddies and have fun, because you have never seen a level like this before. It will be hard for us to capture a great heart ratio with the 2 player requirement, but it was still worth it.

It's currently under my PSN btw... hopefully we can find a way to get a mutual account.

moleynator
01-17-2009, 01:18 AM
Sounds great, I will check it out next time someone is on with me.

Walter-Kovacs
01-17-2009, 01:20 AM
This sounds like a lot of fun.

OCK
01-17-2009, 04:34 AM
I played this earlier with Voltiare and I have to say I was really blown away. This is one of the top 10 levels I have played in LBP! Here are some more thoughts:

I really have to begin with the whole jetpack/paintinator mechanic. YOU GUYS ARE GENIUSES! Seriously man, this was one of the most incredible, innovative and enjoyable gameplay elements that I have ever experienced in LBP. Everyone who plays this should be saying "****, I wish I had thought of that" and if they aren't saying that then the only person they are fooling is themselves. The release of the paintinator changed the way the game can be played. You guys took it to a whole new level and proved that the options available to creators in LBP are limitless. I applaud both of you, this is truly inspiring stuff.

With the release of the MGS pack the world of LBP has been flooded with VR levels. The great thing about your level is that although you use the VR materials, your lighting and some very cool imbedding make it look completely original and fresh. I particularly liked the imbedding and I have to be honest that at one point of was thinking of doing a similar zig-zag pattern on 218 (great minds think alike lol). It was beautiful and really added a visual punch.

There are so many new and original ideas going on in this level that it is mind boggling. I could write an essay on all the crazy things you guys do here but I will focus on what impressed me most of all: the turret. One player on the bottom, one on top, work together to aim the turret and destroy the barriers. Guys, I was literally laughing the whole time we were playing through this section, it was so good that I could not help myself. Voltiare was on the bottom shooting the switch handle (that`s right everyone SHOOTING A 2 WAY SWITCH HANDLE, NOT A PAINTINATOR SWITCH) and I was firing the turret on top, laughing out loud the whole time. This single gameply element will be really hard to top as far as I am concerned. This is Mt. Everest and good luck to anyone wanting to conquer it's magnificence.

The collapsing bridge was bananas. Not the first time I have seen a collapsing bridge but I can tell you this was the best collapsing bridge I have ever seen in LBP.

Two boss battles that have a pretty complex construction. It was almost as if you were trying to embarass everyone else when you set out to do this level lol. WE ARE NOT WORTHY!

I love the story driving everything forward and the use of the codec. It was just the icing on the cake for me.

Suggestions:

- There are a few visible prox switches

- We had some trouble with the final boss. We hit all the weak points but he just didn't want to give up the ghost lol. Please look into this ASAP.


This level is a masterpiece in every sense of the word. Needless to say, 5 stars and hearted! Those 80 hours each were well worth it guys and my onluy hope is that the level gets the exposure and recognition it deserves. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

NinjaMicWZ
01-17-2009, 05:22 AM
Thanks, OCK. I actualled fixed a couple things and republished while you guys were playing. I saw that you were in it, like "man, I wish they'd restart real quick" lol

I know the boss dies, I've done it twice with people and have checked it a bunch of times now. There's a glitch with hit detection on spinning objects, so even though the blue wheels only have 1 hit point, they take alot of hits to catch at just the right time. Destroy the blue things, then destroy the center.

The magic mouth on the boss was missing to say to leave, basically. You head back up and out and voila... mission accomplished.

I added a thing to the two-man turret to make shooting the switch alot easier - Neverynnal designed that part, and when I was looking at it, I thought - why would there be a switch just sitting on the ground right here and it seemed so boring for the bottom player to just pull it while the other one gets all the fun. I tested to see if I could shoot the switch and sure enough I could. Slapped it on the ceiling and I was like "man... that's cool." Neither of us were sure it was a good idea, if people would understand it or not, so you put my mind at ease. Thanks alot.

Also, all credit due to Nev for his two-man jetpack/paintinator concept. He approached me with it, but it was all his idea. I DO have a one-man flying paintgun equipped ship ****ting on my moon right now though, if anyone's curious.

Voltiare
01-17-2009, 08:00 AM
Yeah, I have to say that flying Paintinator is hardcore action. If you thought a paintinator was awesome, wait until you are dangling two inches apart of a moving electric boss with your life in somebody else's hands. If OCK goes, I go. It really feels more like a co-op level more than any other level I have ever played since your survival depends on one another 100%.

I think I forgot to heart it, but I will return to do so. It really is a fantastic idea and it is executed very, very well. Oh yeah, and it will be spotlighted. Guaranteed.

NinjaMicWZ
01-17-2009, 10:01 AM
Man... we got this out there just in time... I went to a friend's game just now and he was on his moon making a terrible version of the same thing. Either we beat the clock, or it's already being copied.

Imitation is the highest form of flattery. If some other level uses this and gets more plays and hearts I will be MAD!

Voltiare
01-17-2009, 04:15 PM
Dude, why is nobody posting here? If you are reading this, grab a friend and GO PLAY IT. It is fuuuuuun.

Neverynnal
01-17-2009, 07:54 PM
I played this earlier with Voltiare and I have to say I was really blown away. This is one of the top 10 levels I have played in LBP! Here are some more thoughts:

I really have to begin with the whole jetpack/paintinator mechanic. YOU GUYS ARE GENIUSES! Seriously man, this was one of the most incredible, innovative and enjoyable gameplay elements that I have ever experienced in LBP. Everyone who plays this should be saying "****, I wish I had thought of that" and if they aren't saying that then the only person they are fooling is themselves. The release of the paintinator changed the way the game can be played. You guys took it to a whole new level and proved that the options available to creators in LBP are limitless. I applaud both of you, this is truly inspiring stuff.

Man you really know how to make someone feel good OCK :p Thanks so, so much for this. I actually thought of the concept when I was looking over a thread on LBPC and people were upset because you couldn't fly and shoot at the same time and it was a huge oversight on their part. Immediately I went to Ninja with the concept, since we share quite similar tastes in levels and creating, and he took it better than I anticipated and proceeded to go on a 48 hr LBP bender. hahaha



With the release of the MGS pack the world of LBP has been flooded with VR levels. The great thing about your level is that although you use the VR materials, your lighting and some very cool imbedding make it look completely original and fresh. I particularly liked the imbedding and I have to be honest that at one point of was thinking of doing a similar zig-zag pattern on 218 (great minds think alike lol). It was beautiful and really added a visual punch.

It's true they do think alike :p Yeah it was a bit of a feat to try and make the level look fresh and original. You can thank Ninja for coming up with the perfect material set and myself for integrating them. However the aesthetics in the level are a combined effort. I built the level itself and Ninja cleaned it up and did all the dirty work :D Love this guy hahaha


There are so many new and original ideas going on in this level that it is mind boggling. I could write an essay on all the crazy things you guys do here but I will focus on what impressed me most of all: the turret. One player on the bottom, one on top, work together to aim the turret and destroy the barriers. Guys, I was literally laughing the whole time we were playing through this section, it was so good that I could not help myself. Voltiare was on the bottom shooting the switch handle (that`s right everyone SHOOTING A 2 WAY SWITCH HANDLE, NOT A PAINTINATOR SWITCH) and I was firing the turret on top, laughing out loud the whole time. This single gameply element will be really hard to top as far as I am concerned. This is Mt. Everest and good luck to anyone wanting to conquer it's magnificence.

Haha, as Ninja mentioned I was worried that people simply weren't going to "get" it. That turret part I mean. But you've put both of our minds at ease OCK. Thankyou :)


Two boss battles that have a pretty complex construction. It was almost as if you were trying to embarass everyone else when you set out to do this level lol. WE ARE NOT WORTHY!

Yeah I was completely blown away the first time Ninja showed me the last boss...I still don't understand how he did it...:D



This level is a masterpiece in every sense of the word. Needless to say, 5 stars and hearted! Those 80 hours each were well worth it guys and my onluy hope is that the level gets the exposure and recognition it deserves. Thank you, thank you, thank you!


Thanks so, so much for the kind words. While we don't anticipate the level getting a ton of recognition because of the 2 player aspect and the lamebrainness of the majority of the LBP community, we wanted to blow a few people out of the water! That we succeeded in this with both you and Voltiare makes me so happy, and all the work put in is officially worth it. You're both extremely accomplished creators yourselves, so your kind words really go a long way :) Thanks for playing our level :cool:

NinjaMicWZ
01-17-2009, 08:43 PM
Man you really know how to make someone feel good OCK :p Thanks so, so much for this. I actually thought of the concept when I was looking over a thread on LBPC and people were upset because you couldn't fly and shoot at the same time and it was a huge oversight on their part. Immediately I went to Ninja with the concept, since we share quite similar tastes in levels and creating, and he took it better than I anticipated and proceeded to go on a 48 hr LBP bender. hahaha

I saw that thread too, come to think of it... where aer0blue or someone said, "maybe you can't fly out of the water with the 9mm in hand, but so what?" or something to that effect, right? That was the thread that gave me the idea to make the automatic paintball rifle out of my Metal Slug trick coincidentally.

lol @ bender... yeah, I went off that first two days. Banged out 3 bosses and 3 turret designs... never got to use the locust boss ;) but he will make his debut eventually


It's true they do think alike :p Yeah it was a bit of a feat to try and make the level look fresh and original. You can thank Ninja for coming up with the perfect material set and myself for integrating them. However the aesthetics in the level are a combined effort. I built the level itself and Ninja cleaned it up and did all the dirty work :D Love this guy hahaha

When I saw the look you came up with, with the bloodlines, the color correction, and the lighting - it was wayyyy better than I had pictured it, even with the material set in mind.


Yeah I was completely blown away the first time Ninja showed me the last boss...I still don't understand how he did it...:D

Niether do I anymore heh The funny thing is that every single switch arrangement is contained within the boss' sphere except for the one that controls the speed setting for the interior lights. I think it gave me a stroke D:


Thanks so, so much for the kind words. While we don't anticipate the level getting a ton of recognition because of the 2 player aspect and the lamebrainness of the majority of the LBP community, we wanted to blow a few people out of the water! That we succeeded in this with both you and Voltiare makes me so happy, and all the work put in is officially worth it. You're both extremely accomplished creators yourselves, so your kind words really go a long way :) Thanks for playing our level :cool:

I think it might just take awhile to catch on... I hope at least. I agree though... getting props from two of my favorite creators is a much higher honor than ratings, hearts, and plays. If they like it, then I know it's good.

Right now it's got 8 hearts and 3 stars... if I can publish it at the right time for the highest traffic we might catch alot of teams looking at the front page some night. Either way, LBPC's our arena and our peers.

Kog
01-17-2009, 09:40 PM
Gosh... that was amazing in such a way that I can't bring my self to thinking another level is better.

When I started the level, I have top say, I thought it wasn't going to be that good. It didn't look so snazzy, and I just had a felling. BUT, that feeling was completely WRONG. That level made my day. It was simply epic. EPIC.

Pretty much everything was original, and everything looked amazing. The two bosses that were supposed to be really hard, weren't really. Me and Dimo didn't lose a single life during the Eye boss. But the final boss was a bit of a doozy, and we beat the level with the warning alarm. It took us a while to beat the last boss, because it was hard, and that when we knocked off all the things on the spinning blue things, nothing really happened. But when I went to check here to see how to beat it, then returned, Dimo had magically beaten it. I don't know how he did it, but I bet it was just random shots.

Pros:
+Detail. Was. Awesome.
+Bosses. Were. Awesome.
+Originalty in most of the challenges.
+Awesome idea for a jet packer holding an 'artist'. (:p)
+Pwnsome 2 player challenges.
+Storyline FTW!
+Lighting was awesome.
+Custom Content FTW!

Cons
-Last boss was a bit tricky to figure out how to defeat it.

I love this level, and will play it again and again with many of my friends, to show them this pwnsome level! Can't wait for a sequel! (Make one! ;))

5 stars, and hearted. Good job you two!

Neverynnal
01-17-2009, 10:26 PM
Gosh... that was amazing in such a way that I can't bring my self to thinking another level is better.

When I started the level, I have top say, I thought it wasn't going to be that good. It didn't look so snazzy, and I just had a felling. BUT, that feeling was completely WRONG. That level made my day. It was simply epic. EPIC.

Pretty much everything was original, and everything looked amazing. The two bosses that were supposed to be really hard, weren't really. Me and Dimo didn't lose a single life during the Eye boss. But the final boss was a bit of a doozy, and we beat the level with the warning alarm. It took us a while to beat the last boss, because it was hard, and that when we knocked off all the things on the spinning blue things, nothing really happened. But when I went to check here to see how to beat it, then returned, Dimo had magically beaten it. I don't know how he did it, but I bet it was just random shots.

Pros:
+Detail. Was. Awesome.
+Bosses. Were. Awesome.
+Originalty in most of the challenges.
+Awesome idea for a jet packer holding an 'artist'. (:p)
+Pwnsome 2 player challenges.
+Storyline FTW!
+Lighting was awesome.
+Custom Content FTW!

Cons
-Last boss was a bit tricky to figure out how to defeat it.

I love this level, and will play it again and again with many of my friends, to show them this pwnsome level! Can't wait for a sequel! (Make one! ;))

5 stars, and hearted. Good job you two!

Thankyou Cog! Yeah Eye-Gore is really nice to look at, and isn't entirely hard to beat, but that's kind of what we were looking for. We wanted to make it progressively harder as the level went on, and didn't want people to get stuck at Eye-Gore and miss Ninja's masterpiece boss. I'm surprised you didn't die once though, I still manage to kill my gunner every time I square off against Eye-Gore haha :p

A sequel will come, but probably not until co-op create is introduced...because making this level without it was a serious pain in the exterior. We actually wanted to end the story in this level but it simply wasn't possible because of thermo constraints. Believe it or not, Ninja had another boss that was almost game-ready that we were going to implement into the level, but the thermo is literally exploding as it is so.. :p

d BAG
01-17-2009, 10:44 PM
The flying Paintinator? Nev, you're a genius! Gotta check this one out!

Neverynnal
01-17-2009, 11:40 PM
Please do :) And bring your best bud with you to enjoy the ride!

gameguy888
01-18-2009, 01:37 AM
I hate sounding jealous, but I actually already tried doing the "flying Paintinator" thing in my VR Dodgeball level... (which, no one has looked at btw...) =\ Still, that doesn't make it any less of an awesome idea. Great minds think alike? The one thing you do pull off is that it's an actual level while mine is just a mini-game. Whatever, this thread isn't about my level.


I assume this is the level Nev took me into earlier today. I have to say, I enjoyed it greatly. The atmosphere of the level is pretty slick, and I love seeing co-op type stuff. Makes the game more fun and whatnot.

My main problem with this level is that it really only works with 2 players only. With 3 it's even worse since someone basically sits there and does nothing. With 4 players, it's not so bad, but it's hard to keep track of 4 players at once. Not really your fault, but still.

I went back through this level by myself (with another controller obviously... making it a lot more difficult for sure), so I could review it properly.

I can't say I have much to say about the intro section. The guns and such look well designed, the debris from the various guns pile up down below though. Not a huge issue, but it makes a mess. I really don't know why this bugs me. I guess I'm just use to all of the "creature" dying when killed. Oh well.

The two player race section was very clever and easily my favorite part of this level. It must be hard to pull off splitting an area into two sections and be able to see it all (stupid camera limitations and all). Very well done here.

The first boss is rather... easy. All you really have to do is stay back and keep firing until the thing falls apart. Also, it's almost no threat at all once you get rid of the guns. Those pieces that come rocketing off don't do anything but push you around. I dunno, this thing seems like it should be more dangerous.

The collapsing bridge is kind of a good idea, but it doesn't quite fit with the whole co-op theme of the level. And actually, it's easy to die and/or get left behind on that thing due to the camera. Plus, if the "leader" (whomever the camera is focused on) falls, everyone else is pretty much screwed.

The section with the little robot things is a little hazardous due to electrified pieces sometimes not going away. Plus, it's hard to tell which layer the things are on.

After this, the level shifts to a different style, and becomes much more creepy. Again, it loses the co-op feel for a while. Actually, there's an issue with that sponge you grab to go up a shaft (the one with the star on it). It goes up way too fast, and is rather hard to time getting on with 2 players (more players would be even worse).

The end of the level is rather difficult, mostly due to the lack of knowing what to do exactly. The first part of the boss also suffers from the "stay in a safe spot and keep firing" flaw. Once you're able to get inside, it's not really obvious what to do. If I'm suppose to shoot the blue things or something, I kept doing it, and one of them refused to go away. You can shoot through the small gaps to the middle core. I don't know exactly how this boss was designed to be beaten. Maybe make it a little more obvious? I don't know how, this thing already seems very complex.


Problems aside, this level is very well made. It's difficult to find a player to go with, and a little hard to work together in some sections, but overall it's a fun experience. Can't wait to see a sequel. I've liked the idea of flying with the Paintinator since I (you) thought about it, but it really shouldn't be a majority of the level, since the same thing over and over can get old pretty fast. Here's hoping you still have some cool ideas left.:)

Walter-Kovacs
01-18-2009, 02:32 AM
Cool level, one quick bug I found:

The portal on a piston when the bridge is falling didn't move. So we just repeatedly spawned on top of a gas pit.

Neverynnal
01-18-2009, 08:20 AM
I hate sounding jealous, but I actually already tried doing the "flying Paintinator" thing in my VR Dodgeball level... (which, no one has looked at btw...) =\ Still, that doesn't make it any less of an awesome idea. Great minds think alike? The one thing you do pull off is that it's an actual level while mine is just a mini-game. Whatever, this thread isn't about my level.


I assume this is the level Nev took me into earlier today. I have to say, I enjoyed it greatly. The atmosphere of the level is pretty slick, and I love seeing co-op type stuff. Makes the game more fun and whatnot.

My main problem with this level is that it really only works with 2 players only. With 3 it's even worse since someone basically sits there and does nothing. With 4 players, it's not so bad, but it's hard to keep track of 4 players at once. Not really your fault, but still.

I went back through this level by myself (with another controller obviously... making it a lot more difficult for sure), so I could review it properly.

I can't say I have much to say about the intro section. The guns and such look well designed, the debris from the various guns pile up down below though. Not a huge issue, but it makes a mess. I really don't know why this bugs me. I guess I'm just use to all of the "creature" dying when killed. Oh well.

The two player race section was very clever and easily my favorite part of this level. It must be hard to pull off splitting an area into two sections and be able to see it all (stupid camera limitations and all). Very well done here.

The first boss is rather... easy. All you really have to do is stay back and keep firing until the thing falls apart. Also, it's almost no threat at all once you get rid of the guns. Those pieces that come rocketing off don't do anything but push you around. I dunno, this thing seems like it should be more dangerous.

The collapsing bridge is kind of a good idea, but it doesn't quite fit with the whole co-op theme of the level. And actually, it's easy to die and/or get left behind on that thing due to the camera. Plus, if the "leader" (whomever the camera is focused on) falls, everyone else is pretty much screwed.

The section with the little robot things is a little hazardous due to electrified pieces sometimes not going away. Plus, it's hard to tell which layer the things are on.

After this, the level shifts to a different style, and becomes much more creepy. Again, it loses the co-op feel for a while. Actually, there's an issue with that sponge you grab to go up a shaft (the one with the star on it). It goes up way too fast, and is rather hard to time getting on with 2 players (more players would be even worse).

The end of the level is rather difficult, mostly due to the lack of knowing what to do exactly. The first part of the boss also suffers from the "stay in a safe spot and keep firing" flaw. Once you're able to get inside, it's not really obvious what to do. If I'm suppose to shoot the blue things or something, I kept doing it, and one of them refused to go away. You can shoot through the small gaps to the middle core. I don't know exactly how this boss was designed to be beaten. Maybe make it a little more obvious? I don't know how, this thing already seems very complex.


Problems aside, this level is very well made. It's difficult to find a player to go with, and a little hard to work together in some sections, but overall it's a fun experience. Can't wait to see a sequel. I've liked the idea of flying with the Paintinator since I (you) thought about it, but it really shouldn't be a majority of the level, since the same thing over and over can get old pretty fast. Here's hoping you still have some cool ideas left.:)


Well I appreciate the feedback, but most of the complaints, in my opinion, are rather opinionated. We didn't want to load the entire level with completely co-op tasks for the reason that we wanted to give it more variety. I personally love platforming, so we added some fun sections that you don't need to rely on your partner for. Also the bit about the debris at the bottom is there for effect, since you would expect a gun to shatter into pieces rather than simply disappear.

I'm happy you enjoyed the 2 player race section :) We absolutely loved building that part of the level and tried to make it as inventive and original as possible. Thanks for the kudos!

Also, as stated previously, Eye-Gore isn't meant to be an extreme challenge. While your competent at finding a "safe spot" during the boss fight, others may find this more problematic. We wanted the rest of the level to be accessible as the attention span of most people playing LBP is that of a young child with ADD. I do think, though, that we could possible make the parts that rocket off electric. Might add this, as it shouldn't take up much, if any, thermo space.

As for the final boss, a stupid glitch makes spinning circles almost impossible to register paint hits. It's been a problem for me and Ninja over the last week, and just when we thought we'd fixed it, it still acts up on us. I do agree though, we could add a speech bubble explaining what to do after the 3 sets of cannons and the cyborg are killed. I'll look into this.

And indeed, we did think alike :p I'll be sure to check out your dodgeball level. Invite me to check it out sometime when I'm on m8. Thanks for checking out the level.


EDIT: Walter! I have no idea what happened on the bridge section. I've never seen the piston act up like that and I'm sorry it happened. We'll look into it bud, thanks for letting me know :)

blizzard_cool
01-18-2009, 08:52 AM
I'm going to play it now... I'll give feedback when I'm done with it

NinjaMicWZ
01-18-2009, 06:00 PM
I did add a speech bubble saying "Don't stop shooting til his cores are completely destroyed!" with the camera zoomed up on the blue wheel. People still don't get it, and there's nothing more I can do to hold peoples hands.

Each wheel has 30 different paint switches all over it, and it's set to 1 hit. It's a glitch, and it has to do with hit detection on on spinning objects - there's absolutely nothing I can do about. I even tried putting magnetic keys on all the wheel parts, but then ran into the problem that some pieces will fall off and sift at the bottom where they can't be hit. I also tried replacing all the offshoot pieces with brains which caused the entire level to disappear after the last one had been shot. That's no bueno.

The bosses all have safe spots. That's only natural. On RRoD though, you can still get hit anywhere by the 4th chamber when he pops out, as his range is total. Just getting into the safespot and finding it is the real challenge. We originally had eyegore spinning way faster, but in testing, getting anywhere near him was impossible, and the spread of his plasma was too random. A good boss needs a pattern that's somewhat predictable and avoidable, and doesn't change the next time you play.

I will definitely electrify those rocket offshoots though. Good idea. I am not going to add plasma shooting from the center though - can't be done. One more sticker and the paintgun won't even shoot.

Although it fills up the lower area, the debris left behind on the turrets is logical, and mechanically sound. There's a sliver of glass inside that weights and stabilizes the moving chamber inside. without this piece, the pistons slide and bend through the frame of the turret due to some overload in the physics engine that I can't control. No glass debris, no realistic turret. It's nice to see your work as a mercenary after disabling an enemy threat :D

These bugs in the game engine are things Nev and I can't be faulted for.

Everything to do with "if one player falls behind" - yeah, move as a unit, act as one. I love when me and Nev play it, 'cause we come flipping off that grab switch at the end commando style. If I had room to add explosives there and breaking glass atthe end, I would lol

@ Walter. I fixed it. The platform the jetpack was attached to was unglued, so it gave the jetpack too much radius allowing you to fly over the sensor radius to activate the piston when activating the checkpoint.

Be assured that I edit habitually for months on end, so any issues I can fix, I will.

Sonic5411
01-18-2009, 06:19 PM
Sounds epic, me and clank are going to have to try this

blizzard_cool
01-18-2009, 06:58 PM
Ok I played it with my friend and this are my thoughts:

Really good. Loved the mechanism when one fly's and the other shoots.
The beginning is very easy. You just shoot up all the cannons (witch are very very well made{congrats to the creator}). But the problem with those guns is that when u destroy them, some parts just don't disappear. Well there was nothing more wrong with the first part.

The second part with the race is really fun. To bad I never finished it in time. My friend leaks some skill (if he's reading this, I'm joking {actually I'm not}).
The only problem I had here was that the camera with the platforming at the beginning. The thing with the paintball cannon, just genius!

Everything was fun until the boss. Don't get me wrong. The boss is fun to but.... You can go left to the electrified part at the bottom and just shoot up everything cause from there nothing can hurt you.

Really loved the level. As said the mechanism is awesome and so is everything else. The only thing that bothers me is the lack of detailed environment (sorry, I like to be picky) and the VR material... People r putting it some much in their levels that I started to hate it!

Rated 5 stars and hearted.
Despised the things I didn't like, I appreciate the work u guys put into it ;)

briggsy
01-18-2009, 07:12 PM
That level sound awesome... i'm going on it now :p!!!

NinjaMicWZ
01-18-2009, 11:30 PM
RRoD is officially fixed! No more need to eliminate the center blue wheel. Regrettably, the bug still exists until they've patched in a hit detection fix on rotating objects, but we no longer have to worry about it in Seminal Gemini.

I am actually not a fan of VR material either, for the same reason, blizz. That's why I was determined to break it up a little in the final stages of development... Nev's use of the red VR for the bloodlines and his lighting and color correction really saved this level from being another VR level, and achieved a beautiful polish and complimentary look. I've been known to completely change the texture pallet on levels down the line, but Nev would have to be 100% behind it on any changes like that in the future. I've played with tons of texture combinations and none of them look as nice IMO. Metal's interest me, but they're all too grainy and faded to fit with the futuristic and technologically advanced design of everything else. Only the MGS materials, including the cardboard, fit.

Thanks for the feedback, and I will be getting everyone back in their threads as soon as I can.

Takelow
01-19-2009, 09:45 AM
Hi,

When i first saw this thread i thought: "OMG, when you know what these two guys are able to do by themselves, you MUST BE ANXIOUS to see what they have done TOGHETHER!
I was right...

I had the chance and privilege to play this level yesterday with NinjaMicWZ himself and... i even don't know what to say...
WOOOOOOOOWWWWWW!!!
The ultimate 2 players level! Guys, you made THE ULTIMATE 2 PLAYERS LEVEL!!!!

First of all, i would like to say that i had a completely new feeling playing this level. It is out of classical LBP gameplay. It was more in an incredibly nervous and beautiful shoot'them'up... Really unique!

As i told above, the level is nervous (in the god sense of the word) and you don't bother one second (things happen to fast for this!).
The visual is INCREDIBLE: It is ONE OF THE MOST beautiful and original level i have saw using MGS materials. Lights are great!
And your bosses... OMG your bosses: Beautiful, well designed and incredibly living bosses!

I must admit that after playing your level i was going to bed and I thought again to the level in my bed (btw, thank you men, i only slept 5 hours!!!:D)!

Ok, so two little comments:

- I don't know if it is due to my bad connection, but during the flying/shooting sections, i didn't saw the paint bubble from my paintinator. It was kinda hard to aim. To be honnest, it was strange at start, and i forgot this during the play. Then, it is far to be a big issue.

-The last boss is great but i found that destroying the blue wheel requires very long time shooting. Perhaps, my skills in aiming are very bad though.
I don't know if you can do something here.

Overall, a GREAT, GEORGOUS and AMAZING level!
I loved a lot playing it (thank you NinjaMicWZ...btw, your incredible flying skills permit us to do a great score ;) ) and i will love to play it again, for sure... I think that this level could be highlighted by Mm itself!
So, PLEASE, even if you never played a creator level in LBP, try this one with your friends... you will not regret it.

5 Stars, Hearted!

Neverynnal
01-19-2009, 04:44 PM
Thanks a lot Takelow! I'm glad you were able to pair up with someone and play the level :) I'm also thrilled you were nervous playing the level, because we tried to keep you on edge throughout. Thanks again for the kudos bud :D

The comment you made on not being able to see the paint. Yeah that is definitely a case of a bad connection. Same thing happens to me mid-day playing online with the paintinator.

As for the blue wheels, I was hoping that was fixed. I'm curious to know whether you played that before or after Ninja fixed it.

NinjaMicWZ
01-20-2009, 12:24 AM
He played it before. Everytime I play with someone I analyze and gauge their reactions to the level and try to see what I can improve or change... see where I need hints, or what needs fixes. Other people will always break things in ways you never thought of, or even solve things in ways you didn't plan, which is a great asset. The hardest part about this level was that neither of us were on at the same time and nobody was willing to playtest, but considering how few bugs were actually in the level on launch day, and that the two there were resulted from the game engine glitches itself, I think we did an outstanding job regardless.

I've tweaked a few things still in the last day or so... it'll only come closer to being 100% balanced and bug free as time goes on.

...and thanks, Takelow. It's nice to see some of our most prestigious creators are enjoying this level so much.

Onymega
01-20-2009, 05:39 PM
Hey guys,

Finally played through the entire level with my brother and I have to say, pretty amazing level.

I played it few days ago with a friend (we didn't get far) and now noticed the guns in the first part have less health if I'm not mistaken.
I really like the concept and appreciate original ideas that are executed well.

Liked (things that come to mind) :

- The concept : very cool, nothing more to add.
- The small co-op puzzles
- The little jumping buggers (original idea done well)
- Pulling the plugs (small event that made me care about the characters)
- The final boss (I like multi part bosses and it's pretty well done)

Liked less :

- First boss (had to restart because the door wouldn't open after beating it)
- Maybe a bit dark, but otherwise the vr materials would loose their effectiveness I guess.
- The falling bridge (we jumped into electricity right away so we missed the whole experience)(kinda our fault)
- Final boss (part where you have to shoot, all the small pieces takes a while and are no dangers for that period)

Tips :

- If you use a standard platform jumping sequence, mix it up with one of your cool ideas that are still locked in your brains.
- I wanted more ending story wise. But hey that's just me.

I gave the level 4 stars because nothing is perfect and I don't want to discourage you guys from making your next level even better.

If the next is but a little better, you'll receive my 5 stars :)

Onymega

ps : Hey Neverynnal if you want to know what the Epiphany means in my level title, you need to play through it till the end, otherwise it makes little sense.

LFF
01-20-2009, 05:43 PM
Gah, I came up with this idea two weeks ago, but never got round to making it. :P

Sounds awesome though, I'll be sure to play it when my brother gets back.

Hexagohn
01-20-2009, 08:20 PM
Wow with all the praise I just read on here I can't believe I haven't seen this yet! I am at school but I will definitely check it out with my brother later on. Lol my lil bro has been saying for weeks he wishes you could have the jet pack and the paintinator at once.

NinjaMicWZ
01-20-2009, 08:29 PM
Hey guys,

Finally played through the entire level with my brother and I have to say, pretty amazing level.

I played it few days ago with a friend (we didn't get far) and now noticed the guns in the first part have less health if I'm not mistaken.
I really like the concept and appreciate original ideas that are executed well.

Liked (things that come to mind) :

- The concept : very cool, nothing more to add.
- The small co-op puzzles
- The little jumping buggers (original idea done well)
- Pulling the plugs (small event that made me care about the characters)
- The final boss (I like multi part bosses and it's pretty well done)

Liked less :

- First boss (had to restart because the door wouldn't open after beating it)
- Maybe a bit dark, but otherwise the vr materials would loose their effectiveness I guess.
- The falling bridge (we jumped into electricity right away so we missed the whole experience)(kinda our fault)
- Final boss (part where you have to shoot, all the small pieces takes a while and are no dangers for that period)

Tips :

- If you use a standard platform jumping sequence, mix it up with one of your cool ideas that are still locked in your brains.
- I wanted more ending story wise. But hey that's just me.

I gave the level 4 stars because nothing is perfect and I don't want to discourage you guys from making your next level even better.

If the next is but a little better, you'll receive my 5 stars :)

Onymega

ps : Hey Neverynnal if you want to know what the Epiphany means in my level title, you need to play through it till the end, otherwise it makes little sense.

Thanks for the great feedback -

1st boss - I'm not sure what happened with the 1st boss, Eyegore, and the door. That's weird.

darkness - the unique look is achieved by the darkness, but it can be a little much... when I'm in create mode I usually brighten it up, but still the materials just look typical without this color correction and darkness setting. It gives it some sci-fi horror to go with the experiments and the bloodlines. It's a fine line to walk.

bridge - I hardly ever get to enjoy it either, just depends on if I was quick enough or who I'm playing with... but it's a good extra point sequence to promote a better score

final boss wheel - I had the inside of the wheel electrified before, but removed it because a cut scene segment telling players what to do resulted in an automatic death... I removed one cut scene and I think I'm about the uncutscene the other magic mouth so that I can set it back to electrified. Thanks for reminding me.

...and for the tips. Me and Nev had wanted to make this level even bigger than it was and do soooo much more. I've got a completely built boss I had to scrap, and some extra turrets, and there was supposed to be another final boss at the end, after another segment. If the level hadn't been designed so much to support the flying paintinator we easily could have made a more traditional platform heavy affair, but I agree... I'm happy with what we accomplished, but displeased with the limitations of the thermometer.

As for the ending, yup! Nev just had me add in some closing dialogue at the scoreboard, but still, we wanted a grand exit to a big blockbuster event lol - if we hadn't packed the level with so much we'd have those awesome intro/outro screens with the big text that people use.

Thanks alot for playing and enjoying it. After a little R&R, Nev and I will most assuredly come back to this.

Neverynnal
01-20-2009, 11:07 PM
Thanks a lot for the comments Onymega! Well appreciated and I'm happy you took the time to play the level :)

The bridge was tested with 1 player and needs to be fixed for sure. I got it set on a timer currently triggered by a sensor switch, so when the first player triggers it, the bridge begins to fall, usually leaving the 2nd player behind. It was set perfectly with 1 player, but alas I was too close-minded at the time to take proper consideration. Consider it fixed.

Thanks again!

NinjaMicWZ
01-21-2009, 11:04 AM
Added pics.

Neverynnal
01-22-2009, 04:35 PM
Bridge should be fixed now as well. We need some plays on this level guys, and remember if you provide feedback, both of us will provide feedback on your level.

Thanks!

misterwonderloo
01-22-2009, 04:58 PM
got to try this one...............

Thegide
01-22-2009, 06:54 PM
Looking forward to tackling this one later....

larryjoe701
01-23-2009, 04:17 AM
So I finally got a skilled Sackboy to join up with this evening and had a go at your level. The level was well made and the concept seemed to work fairly well, though we still had trouble communicating sitting right next to each other. We weren't able to complete the level as the final boss kept kicking our butts.

Pros:
The level featured original game play.
The two player race was especially good... like an extended version of the co-op sections in Story Mode.
There was some story going on.
The turrets and bosses were impressive.

Cons:
I'm just not a fan of the VR metal everywhere. I would rather see a different material.
The turrets were a little difficult at first (they kept you on your toes but didn't give you a chance to really understand them).
The final boss just kept killing us... and since we needed to work together it got a little frustrating always going back for one another.

Suggestions:
Pick a different material... don't let your level get associated with the 5000 awful VR levels.
Solidify the roles (JetPack vs. Paintinator at the beginning by dividing the players then have them meet back up. I'd often accidentally pick up the paintinator rather than the other player.

Thanks for the review on Monochrome (http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7732). I've implemented many of your suggestions.

Neverynnal
01-23-2009, 05:56 AM
So I finally got a skilled Sackboy to join up with this evening and had a go at your level. The level was well made and the concept seemed to work fairly well, though we still had trouble communicating sitting right next to each other. We weren't able to complete the level as the final boss kept kicking our butts.

Pros:
The level featured original game play.
The two player race was especially good... like an extended version of the co-op sections in Story Mode.
There was some story going on.
The turrets and bosses were impressive.

Thanks for the compliments :)



I'm just not a fan of the VR metal everywhere. I would rather see a different material.

Well to be honest, the VR material + the colour correction gave this level the look that we wanted. And really, it doesn't look like any other level out there man. There's the VR background and that's it. We used a variety of other materials throughout the level, but it seems you were fixated on the background VR.



The turrets were a little difficult at first (they kept you on your toes but didn't give you a chance to really understand them).

haha and I was under the impression that they were going to be too easy :p Every section has a "sweet spot" that'll keep you safe. In that section, directly under the turrets usually prevents you from being killed (although if you get too close you get blown up :p)


The final boss just kept killing us... and since we needed to work together it got a little frustrating always going back for one another.

I think Ninja made some recent changes to make the boss more challenging and the plasma ball firing more random. I haven't seen the changes personally, but I'll keep this in mind.[/QUOTE]


Solidify the roles (JetPack vs. Paintinator at the beginning by dividing the players then have them meet back up. I'd often accidentally pick up the paintinator rather than the other player.

While this may sound easy enough to do, it's actually quite challenging. You can't pick up someone with a paintinator across different planes, you can't switch planes and you can only fire on the outermost plane while being carried with the paintinator. Besides, that's probably the easiest part of the level: picking up the person with the paintinator without picking up the paintinator yourself :p Pretty minor imo


Thankyou very much for the feedback larryjoe! Much appreciated and I look forward to trying your level again and beating the darn thing :p

TJapan
01-23-2009, 08:15 AM
Hey man, My wife and i played, and i thought it was an awesome level! really cool concept, (i just wish she could fly better:P)

Quick problem though... this is really a flight level, so you should really work on the camera angles, particularly at the end boss... you cant see when those things are going to come shooting out, so we kept getting blasted...

however, thats the only bad thing i can say about that, i really had a good time with it, and i hope there's a sequel.

NinjaMicWZ
01-24-2009, 03:53 AM
There's been a big overhaul in the visuals department of this level, as an update. The boss is now on a race timer, and the bridge is pretty hard to die on, and for the most part the camera action is more adept and adaptive.

Dimo1138
01-27-2009, 03:12 AM
This level was awesome! I had a similar idea but it didn't fit with the scheme of my current series, so I'm glad someone did it! You guys have to thank cogspartan, as I'm sure I'm not the only one he dragged to your level. I'm sure you guys don't need much feed back at this point, but I may as well tell you what I got. One thing: The gun turrets at the beginning. Why were these things not "enemies" (ie: brains)? I only ask because sometimes the electrified remains would build up at the spawn door, which was passable, but could be annoying. That's it, liked it all and I hope you guys keep 'em coming! As far as return feedback, don't worry about it, you guys are A-OK in my book.

Neverynnal
01-27-2009, 03:29 AM
This level was awesome! I had a similar idea but it didn't fit with the scheme of my current series, so I'm glad someone did it! You guys have to thank cogspartan, as I'm sure I'm not the only one he dragged to your level. I'm sure you guys don't need much feed back at this point, but I may as well tell you what I got. One thing: The gun turrets at the beginning. Why were these things not "enemies" (ie: brains)? I only ask because sometimes the electrified remains would build up at the spawn door, which was passable, but could be annoying. That's it, liked it all and I hope you guys keep 'em coming! As far as return feedback, don't worry about it, you guys are A-OK in my book.


Thanks a lot Dimo! And yeah CogSpartan is awesome <3 a big kudos to him for bringing peeps to the level.

As for the gun turrets, do you know a way to set a brain on a paint switch? Otherwise I have absolutely no idea how to trigger a complete dissolve on the turrets unless we made the entire turret dissolve (which would look unbelievable tacky.

As for the electric remains, I had thought we resolved this but I guess not. We may have to look into de-electrifying the turrets completely. Another thing I want done is a better camera angle on the entry-way to the boss. I'll have to message Ninja, as he's the master-fixer-upper now :p haha

But thanks a lot Dimo! I've repeatedly played most of your levels and died more than often on all of them since they are so **** difficult, but rest assured they are full of hearts and awesomness :p haha ...I'll beat your latest level yet ><

Cheers!

Dimo1138
01-27-2009, 03:44 AM
actually, if you use "protected" creature brains linked to a paint switch set to "one-shot" you get an enemy that is killable with the paint gun. just set it to however many shots you want. the only potential issue is if you have an enemy made of multiple pieces (which you do). then only the piece with the switch will take damage , so the enemy would need a definitive "weak spot".

Neverynnal
01-27-2009, 03:50 AM
Thank you! I believe we will implement this if Ninja is in agreement :) You are the next messiah!

Dimo1138
01-27-2009, 04:04 AM
Thank you! I believe we will implement this if Ninja is in agreement :) You are the next messiah!

Ha! Don't say that! I don't want to be persecuted lol! Let me know if you change it, i'd like to see it implemented.

NinjaMicWZ
01-27-2009, 04:28 AM
Someone asked me that the other day too and I did set the WMD's to paint/brains yesterday, Nev. The thermometer won't allow it for the turrets. One brain and it overheats. I'm unsure what I could change to free up enough space for 14 brains, and I can't remember if they're embedded or not - if they are then we wouldn't want the whole level to dissolve. Another thing is, since I sent them to you as captured objects, and then you implemented them, then I copied the level it makes it so I can't take a piece off. I'd have to rebuild them.

The turrets haven't been electrified since the first day it was published, back when Cog and yourself played it. It's a much more polished level now.

Dimo1138
01-27-2009, 04:39 AM
yeesh, 14 brains is a bit to make room for. if you wouldn't mind a suggestion for future levels, instead of embedding or attatching hanging enemies to the ceiling/walls, place a small piece of dark matter in the enemy's base and you can hang them anywhere without actually attaching it to the ceiling. anyway, i'm going to have to give this another play through if i had only played an early version. where's cog at?

NinjaMicWZ
01-27-2009, 04:58 AM
I acrually miscounted lol, it's only 10 brains, but that's still 10 too many. The base of the turrets was originally dark matter when I was building them and ent them, but of course got changed for thematic purposes as time went on.

I think alot of people throw around the thermometer as an excuse, but I swear I milked it for every last drop. I have never dealt with a level so ready to burst before and the slightest change is like a mind boggling logistics evaluation of the entire level lol

Dimo1138
01-27-2009, 05:24 AM
I acrually miscounted lol, it's only 10 brains, but that's still 10 too many. The base of the turrets was originally dark matter when I was building them and ent them, but of course got changed for thematic purposes as time went on.

I think alot of people throw around the thermometer as an excuse, but I swear I milked it for every last drop. I have never dealt with a level so ready to burst before and the slightest change is like a mind boggling logistics evaluation of the entire level lol

I live in a semi-permanent state of fear due to the thermo. i think i've given myself a complex due to the pressure. the level is great as it is, and is a good sign of things to come from you guys, because you'll only get better from experience. Can't wait to see what's next!

Neverynnal
01-27-2009, 05:45 AM
haha ohh yeah I totally forgot the complications with the thermo and adding brains Ninja. Totally forgot bah! Well something to keep in mind for later levels I spose :)

Bridget
01-27-2009, 05:47 AM
I still intend on trying this one myself..... tonight if possible.

Not to mention the other levels you guys have put up.... the 3 I've tried so far were all so blasted pretty! (did have some framerate issues in one of them though, but I dont think that matters much).


On the note of the "flying paintinator" idea, I dunno about you, but I *really* wish they'd implement the idea of using both the Jetpack and the Paintinator at the same time. I see no reason why Sackboy cant be using both at once.... and it could lead to some awesome things.

Anyway, I'll be sure to give some detailed feedback on this level once I've gotten a chance at it. The screenshots alone look quite nice as it is :)

NinjaMicWZ
01-27-2009, 05:59 AM
Thanks, Bridget. I have a feeing the new jetpack in the update video is going to be exactly that - a combo. Which will effectively make this level obsolete :/ however, it could definitely be retooled with alot of work two incorporate two players with their own jetpack combos. I've been planning stuff just in case... the kind of shooter experiences we could come up with would be INSANE.

Also, just so you know that's the only level we've built together. Everything else on my page is mine and Nev's user name has all his own levels too. You should try out his level A Knight's Tale 2A: Ranaku's Awakening and his Sin City level. They're classics.

Bridget
01-27-2009, 07:48 AM
Thanks, Bridget. I have a feeing the new jetpack in the update video is going to be exactly that - a combo. Which will effectively make this level obsolete :/ however, it could definitely be retooled with alot of work two incorporate two players with their own jetpack combos. I've been planning stuff just in case... the kind of shooter experiences we could come up with would be INSANE.

Also, just so you know that's the only level we've built together. Everything else on my page is mine and Nev's user name has all his own levels too. You should try out his level A Knight's Tale 2A: Ranaku's Awakening and his Sin City level. They're classics.


I heartily agree. A combo item would be the best idea ever. I've been wanting to make something along the lines of a Robotron-ish survival challenge, but of course until such a combo option exists, that cant happen.

I dont think you need to worry about it being obsolete either. If it's anything like the levels I've seen so far, it'll still be fine.

Speaking of which, Im gonna go try some of them now. Just as soon as I make one more slight eye-twitching alteration to that blasted monstrosity of mine.

OCK
01-27-2009, 08:45 AM
I just wanted to say I love the new background you guys have put in there. I did not think the level could get any better but you guys are magicians lol.

I also have to say that regardless of whether the new Jetpack is combo this level will NEVER be obsolete. The whole appeal is in the 2 player teamwork and some of the puzzles you guys have in here would not work any other way. Don't worry, this is a masterpiece for all time :)

thekillermiller
01-28-2009, 05:28 PM
Okay neverynnal, here is some feedback for one of you levels...well partial feedback.

SEMINAL GEMINI -

Overall love the 2 player concept. (Makes me wish MM had a filtering system in place for 2-4 player levels.) I'll have to attempt to play again at some point because we were unable to finish the level....we hit some lag when attempting to remove the switches from the frozen Sackpeople. When the lag hit we dropped one of the iceblocks and it became wedged upside down in one of the holders. We tried for 10 minutes but couldn't remove it. We uploaded a pick, quite funny actually.

The visuals were kinda a mixed bag for me, the level almost had a tronish feel to it because of the use of the VR neon grid materials....yet there were skulls and metal giving it a goth feeling. I guess I'm more of the mindset of it's all techy or it's goth/dungeon. I'm not saying these styles can't be mixed, but it didn't seem to gel in the level the way it was designed.

First Rotating boss...haven't played around with the projectiles, but if there is any way to add a few cover points around the rotating eye it might make life a bit easier....we died a lot on that part. Really liked how the spikes flew off after you took em out, the first time it killed us and we both laughed.

The leap of faith had us stumped for a minute as well...maybe have that first platform there for a sec and then it disappears. Just to hint to the player that something was there.

I'll give you more feedback when I actually complete the thing. (*posted in his thread as well)

-killer

NinjaMicWZ
01-29-2009, 01:28 AM
Okay neverynnal, here is some feedback for one of you levels...well partial feedback.

SEMINAL GEMINI -

Overall love the 2 player concept. (Makes me wish MM had a filtering system in place for 2-4 player levels.) I'll have to attempt to play again at some point because we were unable to finish the level....we hit some lag when attempting to remove the switches from the frozen Sackpeople. When the lag hit we dropped one of the iceblocks and it became wedged upside down in one of the holders. We tried for 10 minutes but couldn't remove it. We uploaded a pick, quite funny actually.


heh... I saw that picture actually... I was like "why did they take a picture right there?" til I read this. The face you're making really made it funny. I have no idea how that's even possible for the grab material to go back in. It's bigger than the hole the glass piece comes out of. Even if it were back in the hole, if you got it out once, even a centimeter up from the mag switch it immediately activates the dissolve body by leaving the microscopic mag key radius.

I don't know what happened, sorry. Definitely give it another try sometime. I find it's best to slow down and stop sometimes when I'm lagging, and let the big hiccup happen and then proceeed, instead of bouncing all over the screen holding run etc


The visuals were kinda a mixed bag for me, the level almost had a tronish feel to it because of the use of the VR neon grid materials....yet there were skulls and metal giving it a goth feeling. I guess I'm more of the mindset of it's all techy or it's goth/dungeon. I'm not saying these styles can't be mixed, but it didn't seem to gel in the level the way it was designed.

I officially give up. I tried every possible combination of textures, lighting, color correction, stickers I could... I spent about a week trying to find a second look that was semi technological without relying on the MGS material, but still looked advanced, dark & grim bloody John-Carpenter style sci-fi horror, metallic, and complimentary to the overall theme of enemy and level design. The skull and blood checkpoints, and the bloodlines throughout the level are just meant to coincide with the final boss design, that you didn't see.

"A single entity meant to breed a hybrid of flesh and steel"


First Rotating boss...haven't played around with the projectiles, but if there is any way to add a few cover points around the rotating eye it might make life a bit easier....we died a lot on that part. Really liked how the spikes flew off after you took em out, the first time it killed us and we both laughed.

If you were lagging, that part can be really tough to get a handle on, but it's best to just stay in the middle and watch the birdie. Make some sharp moves up, down, and back while the shooter blasts away and kills as fast as he can. The sooner you eliminate one of the protrusions, the easier the battle gets. Part of this level is that one player must have good aim and a quick trigger finger. The other part of this level is that the other player must have good reflexes and can maneuver around projectiles.

Make sure your shooter is rapidly tapping R1 and not just holding it. That helps alot too.

Like I keep saying to people though - I can't add a single thing. Not one sticker, a single triangle... absolutely N.O.T.H.I.N.G.

There's nothing I can do to alter or improve anything in this level unless I delete an entire section somewhere, smash it together, and hope to God nothing disappears, breaks, or malfunctions.

I could also rebuild it completely from the ground up as an entirely different level with less stuff in it, but I'm not going to.


The leap of faith had us stumped for a minute as well...maybe have that first platform there for a sec and then it disappears. Just to hint to the player that something was there.

"Let us help you cross... jump Ragnarok... trust in fallen soldiers still!"

They pretty much tell you what to do. It wouldn't be an act of faith and trust if there was proof that everything was ok.


I'll give you more feedback when I actually complete the thing. (*posted in his thread as well)

-killer

The last boss is alot harder than Eye-Gore. Good luck ;)

Vanemiera
02-10-2009, 07:19 PM
Hehe. I think i' m this friend who copied you? Hm^^

I promisse. I really never saw your's before i had the idea. And "terrible"??? Thx for That comment >.<

NinjaMicWZ
02-11-2009, 12:33 AM
I know you didn't, after talking to you about it. It turned out pretty great by the time you published it. When you showed it to me the day I published this, all I saw was an eyeball sticker and a bunch of VR material and what appeared to be a cheap knock-off of the same idea, and then you exited the level.

There's no story or visual punch, and detail like this level, but the gameplay variety, layout/design and challenge in your level are top notch. I never tried to nitpick the level and search for flaws in it.

I played it with Nev and a few other people, and have it on my hearted levels along with your survival game. There's alot of levels that use this concept now and I don't begrudge anyone anything.

Maraz_Matari
02-11-2009, 01:36 AM
Wow, this sounds really cool. I'll have to invite sombody and try it out sometime. I've thought of the possible 1 person fly, while the other shoots method, but never actually tried it :) Glad to see it's implemented in a cool looking way. From the pics (and description) it looks like you spent alotta time on this guys, keep up the good work.

frizby
02-12-2009, 01:38 AM
brilliant level overall.

loved the two player platforming portion...especially the shield plug turrets.

one complaint: the camera on the final boss is terrible...don't know if you can zoom that out anymore so you can see what you're shooting at.

Jaeyden
02-12-2009, 04:24 AM
Bravo! you two. Finally got to play this cause I had someone with me. Awesome level. Awesome bosses. Brilliant co-op concept. Tons of fun and challenge. Really is a stellar piece of work considering how you got it to all come together. 5 star/heart and a big thumbs down to anyone that rated it less.

Neverynnal
02-12-2009, 07:06 AM
Whoa the thread is back from the grave! haha :p Thanks a lot guys, I'm pumped you both really liked it, and thanks a lot for mentioning the shield plug turrets, as I kind of dreamt that one up and it's personally one of my favorite little parts of the level. That whole section really. Especially the cannon/paintinator combo. Ingenious on Ninja's part.

As for the camera, man what a royal pain that has been. It's impossible to check while in create mode because of the lack of another player so it's really all guess and check. It's all in Ninja's hands, so I guess I'll see what he thinks.

NinjaMicWZ
02-12-2009, 08:32 AM
Dunno... I can see it perfectly, and I played through it a couple nights ago, twice. You have to be within a 20 by 20 block vicinity to see it. It's at the optimal angle to see the entire turret chamber, and it's set to maximum radius and maximum zoom. Without a camera zone there you can't see ANYTHING unless you're sitting right on the turret barrels.

You aren't going to get to shoot it without flying down when the plasma spray stops and then constantly avoiding fire. I don't know if people think they can or should be able to shoot it from off-screen without getting shot at, or what.

Thanks for enjoying the level, otherwise. I went into create mode just now to see what I can do with it... I'm stumped. If I discover any kind of miracle fix for the camera zone, I will most definitely implement it.

Vanemiera
02-12-2009, 06:05 PM
Just a suggestion:

Perhaps add left and right moving platfroms at the boss. So the jetpack player has to keep flying behind cover. This could bring the player near to the boss so that it is no on the off chance down shoting anymore.

superezekiel
02-12-2009, 07:08 PM
I didn't get to play all of it, but from what I did play, I was impressed. But at the same time, depressed.

I'm currently working on a series of co-op levels, and this one really puts a lot of my ideas to shame, especially the jetpack/paintinator combo :< And I realized about a month back that my level isn't as co-op centric as I'd like, in a dynamic way, and it was fine then because I have better ideas for my next level. But the level you guys made just destroys and then dumps all over my levels.

So bravo on making a crazy good level with some really great ideas. Maybe I'll finish it someday, but I'm too jealous to continue on :P

edit: Also, I'm glad you guys realized the most essential part to a co-op level. Putting one partners life in the hands of the other. THAT is what makes a great co-op level.

Which is my current is falling short of my original expectations :P

Neverynnal
02-12-2009, 11:15 PM
Thanks for checking out the level ezekiel! :) I'm glad you liked it man.

My advice to you is to keep pluggin away at your level an expanding your knowledge base of the Create Mode. It's easy to get disheartened when you see a level that breaks some new ground (trying not to be fececious :S). I felt the exact same way when I played Jaeyden's level "Abyss!", and promptly quit creating for awhile because I knew I couldn't top that level. However, you need to look past that and challenge yourself to get better so that someday you can pump out a level that's both better and revolutionary. There is such a wide audience out there, that it's almost guaranteed that the level you create will be preferred to ours by many players. Learn from the levels you play and you'll find your experience with LBP all the more richer. Don't know if I made a lick of sense here, but I'll let you decide that lol :P Cheers!

Serpit
02-14-2009, 04:33 PM
Since you gave me such a huge amount of feedback, I figured I should try out this level as well, so I got my brother and played through it. Obviously, I didnít regret it one bit, but I fear I canít return the favor you did me because thereís hardly anything to critique =P

The flying paintinator concept was brilliant, as was the execution. What I liked even more was the cooperation gauntlet where one player had to take the lower patch and one the upper, especially because there was such a variety of different obstacles.

Visually, everything worked as well and fit with the theme of the level very much. Thereís a huge amount of VR levels out there, but this one definitely stands out. The boss designs were nice, Eyegore was a pretty sweet mid-boss, and the final boss was spectacular, although I did not like the first phase.

Thatís basically he only real flaw in my opinion: When you have to shoot the first 4 sections, itís basically impossible to dodge the plasma balls if youíre close to him, so you have to get to a safespot. This, however, takes all the challenge away Ė we killed the first 4 sections from above, simply firing downwards for 2 minutes, without any chance of getting hit ourselves. I recommend making the plasma balls he shoots less and slower, but at the same time giving them a much longer lifetime and eliminating the safespots. Basically, force the players to actually maneuver through the bullets, but actually make it possible =D

The abttle became much better when you had to fly inside of the boss, since you actually had to be on the move all the time. Overall, brilliant creation, the both of you really know what youíre doing. Thanks again for all the feedback Iíve received from you ^^

Neverynnal
02-14-2009, 06:33 PM
Hmm that might actually be a good answer for the boss man. Simply slowing down the speed of the plasma might make it a better fight. Plus we really want people to see that part of the boss, since it's personally my favorite part of the level. The last stage a cyborg shoots out instead of turrets and he just looks AWESOME. We need people to see that part because it also intertwines with the story as well :p

Anyway, thanks for the feedback Serpit. I'm sure it was Ninja that gave feedback on your level since I've been incapacitated over the last 2 weeks with school haha. Cheers m8! :)

Yarbone
02-17-2009, 05:11 AM
Ok... I played it and i have to say it's incredibly awesome!!!!

Unfortunately i died at the boss.... I didn't have a cleu... and it seemed impossible xD (for me :))

tameturtle
02-26-2009, 08:57 PM
Hey Ninja, finally had a chance to finish this wonderful level two nights ago and want to deliver the long-promised feedback. The first time I was with a thoughtful, cautious player, but unfortunately I had to quit the game right when we were going to face the final boss. This time we were four, with me being the only cautious one, but the experience gathered in the first incomplete run proved valuable enough for us to get to the scoreboard.

To start with the score, I find it another "Must play!" - much like all your levels, Ninja (haven't knowingly played any of yours yet, Neverynnal). Somehow I can't help but enjoy your levels, every time. And sure enough, this one's got great gameplay and that certain sense of humour (though obviously less so than the hilarious L.O.V.E.) that make it so much fun for me.

That said, and feel free to ignore it as it's a matter of taste, I am not a fan of the visuals - I simply don't like it when things border on pitch black. The problem is exacerbated by the unfortunate use of the "colour correction" filter, which lets the contrast between light and dark shoot straight through the roof. It literally makes my eyes hurt. And besides, the effect looks cheap to me, and that's the last thing a level as great as this deserves.

Something that struck me as odd was the rather high speed of the diagonal grab-lift before reaching the final boss. For a seasoned two-player team it will probably not be a problem to grab in unison, but all others lose at least one life. In our case, it meant threefold death, actually - making the final boss that much harder because these losses are drawing on the final two checkpoints.

I'll stop with the negative points here, as there are not many, and they've all been pointed out before in this thread. Speaking of which, I think gameguy888 did a great job with his lengthy feedback, and I was a bit surprised at its rather cold reception.

Anyway, it may be funky in some places and it may not look quite the way I'd like it to, but playing it is such good fun that I whole-heartedly support slapping "Must play" on it. Thanks for the fun! :)

NinjaMicWZ
02-26-2009, 09:21 PM
Thanks, man. I'll probably play around with it sometime, and maybe fiddle with the color and darkness a little... I've always utilized objective feedback and offered thanks for anything constructive or helpful, the harsher the better, but I can't meet some demands.

The sponge thing at the end, I like it, but I'll try and design a piston box that delays the piston action and see if I can fit it into the therm. I was actually trying to correct it about a week ago, but couldn't think of a definite fix. I'll TRY and set it up so that the grab switch (can't be set to require all :/) activates a slow moving mag key, to give other players time to grab on as well. I would try to revamp it into an elevator section, but I can't make any design changes without overblowing it. Hopefully having the grab action delayed, doesn't cause people to assume it's broken if it doesn't activate right away.

Or maybe I can arrange a double input switch box like is used for the door - where a require all, inverted sensor switch is keeping the grab-activated piston key from reaching the switch... that way, if one player is still on the ground in the sensor radius, the grab switch won't fully activate until he jumps up to grab and leaves the sensor radius, allowing the piston-key to fully extend... it'll take alot of testing though, and I can't do it by myself easily, holding one R1 button with my toe and trying to break it with the other player controller :/

I really hope the infinite checkpoints come along soon... that's all this level needs for it's final boss, to make it accessible for everyone, and put some more fun in it.

tameturtle
02-27-2009, 12:45 AM
Yeah, I realise I seem to be pretty much the only one out there not fond of these filters, or dark settings in general. I didn't actually expect you to waste much thought on it, let alone ponder changing it because of my opinion. :)

These quick grab-lifts are a frequent source of trouble in multiplayer, and I haven't seen an easy workaround other than dialling the speed down - but I understand that doesn't work well with your vision of this level's theme. A short delay between grabbing and moving sounds like a nice solution, hope it works out.

superezekiel
02-27-2009, 01:51 AM
Yeah, me and my friend kept dying at the last boss, though it was absolutely hilarious. He kept wanting to do the epic "JUMP, ILL CATCH YOU" thing and we'd make the slow motion "doo-doo-doo....doo-doo-doo...doo-doo-doo" sounds as I ran towards the edge with the Paintinator, only to have him TRY to catch me, and fail miserably as I fell to my death lol.

I keep trying to get another friend to play it with me, but he's being a buttmunch and won't get on LBP anymore because everytime we're on he gets "bored of it". Probably because he's in control of the level searching half the time and only searches the words "butt", "fart" and other bodily related words.

Maybe I can convince him to get on tonight. I wanna beat that boss!

Teebonesy
06-05-2009, 04:33 AM
Hey, just thought I'd resurrect this thread - I noticed what I think is a copy of this on the first page of Cool Levels (I'm assuming you're attempting to give it a new chance with the changes to cool levels), it was literally the very first thing that came up when I hit Community, there were less than 100 plays, and I had a friend over, so I figured, this is perfect - I've never played this, so here's my chance.

I think that this was the single most fun thing I have done in the entire time I've had LBP. That's no small compliment. I'm serious - Playing with my buddy Ryan, this was a balls-out, hilarity-inducing BLAST. Not only have I not had this much fun in LBP before, I don't think I've had this much fun playing VIDEO GAMES in a while. You've done something really special here. It's the ultimate multiplayer level, truly cooperative, and I cannot begin to stress how much fun this was. I think I forgot to heart it before we moved on to another game, but if I had a "golden hearts" list, a tiny list of all-time favorite levels, this would be in there, right at the top.

CCubbage
06-05-2009, 03:52 PM
Hey, just thought I'd resurrect this thread - I noticed what I think is a copy of this on the first page of Cool Levels (I'm assuming you're attempting to give it a new chance with the changes to cool levels), it was literally the very first thing that came up when I hit Community, there were less than 100 plays, and I had a friend over, so I figured, this is perfect - I've never played this, so here's my chance.

I think that this was the single most fun thing I have done in the entire time I've had LBP. That's no small compliment. I'm serious - Playing with my buddy Ryan, this was a balls-out, hilarity-inducing BLAST. Not only have I not had this much fun in LBP before, I don't think I've had this much fun playing VIDEO GAMES in a while. You've done something really special here. It's the ultimate multiplayer level, truly cooperative, and I cannot begin to stress how much fun this was. I think I forgot to heart it before we moved on to another game, but if I had a "golden hearts" list, a tiny list of all-time favorite levels, this would be in there, right at the top.
I gotta agree with you 100% on this one.... this is "by far" the best 2 player level in LittleBigPlanet, and is arguably one of the best 2 player games I've ever played too.

Also check out Venemiera's 2 player level if you liked this one - it's another 2 player flying paintinator level that puts a different spin on it.

NinjaMicWZ
06-05-2009, 06:17 PM
Thanks, Teebonsey. That was unexpected. I really appreciate it, and enjoy reading stuff like that, especially from someone who's got such a legendary repertoire. The Movies is the number one level I use to sell people on how much LBP has to offer as a toolset, how great the content can be, and how ingenious the community creators are.

I've recently tried to relaunch all my old levels with some upgrades and changes to little success, and I even accidentally deleted one of them in the process like an idiot lol. So all the hearts and plays are reset to a clean slate... but getting a really awesome comment like that really made my day, and it's nice to see that it can still measure up to some of the amazing levels that have come along since we made this.

Neverynnal was a great creator, and you can see that in the layout and pacing of this level, even with all the changes it's gone through... like OCK, he's another one I wish would jump back into LBP.