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View Full Version : Tools we want for RPG's and Adventure games



Rpg Maker
08-21-2014, 12:52 AM
http://www.daviddino.com/lbp2craft03.jpg

I took a while and thought about this because I am seeing a lot of RPG projects lately, which is great. But we have seen this before and lots of projects go unfinished. I decided to compile a list of what RPG creators will need to be successful and feel free to add your own. I laugh at this quest tool. I feel like that was solved with the memorizer. We already got a save system, we have the sequencer and enough simple logic to create most RPG type of games. What else could we possibly need? Well I thought of five off the top of my head.

5. Calculators and numerical display options
Sure there are a lot of these in LBP2 created by the community, but we want calculators that are already built in, can flash numbers and respond to different camera angles. Much like how score appears in the above pictures. A lot of creators(myself included) use score to display damage values. But think of the thermo this would save. We also wouldnt have to think of so many complex tricks to exceed 100 percent signals. This would mean that these values would have to be built into LBP and probably wont make it in, but it would be a darn useful tool.

4. Custom Huds

http://vghvi.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/mass-effect-femshep.png?w=640&h=359

Imagine being able to make something like Mass effects dialogue wheel system or being able to have character stats displayed on screen for action titles. This would be simple to just have a dedicated layer just for the hud. It would be easy to understand and create, yet allow some complexity for the fancy creators.

3. The text tool
I like the idea of being able to just type letters into LBP. We could even go as far as to make custom dialogue bubbles. It takes a lot of time to copy letters and space them out, so this would make things a little easier on us.

2. Top down animation support
I think its time for LBP to support top down animations. We have seen soo many projects, and while these were good, I just cant get over sackboy looking odd during these top down animations. They were never quite as believable.

1. Way...way way more THERMOETER

Sure the new layers are a great addition, but if we are really going to be filling them up, we are going to need a much more forgiving thermometer than in LBP2 and a lot of us will still probably use the emit/destroy technique. The dynamic thermometer sounds cool, but when there is a bunch of fireballs, and ships and calculations going on at one time. A second level doesnt help much. We want better frame rates and stability for high activity moments and no freezes( or dramatically reduced).

Bladex61
08-21-2014, 04:03 AM
Well we're already getting 2 and 1 for sure. Top down will be much easier to work with and there are clips showing Sackboy walking normally on a top down surface. As for the thermo, it will no longer restrict creating rather it now serves more as a signal when there's a lot in one space.

XX_sonicfan_XX
08-21-2014, 09:03 AM
[QUOTE=Bladex61;1182665As for the thermo, it will no longer restrict creating rather it now serves more as a signal when there's a lot in one space.[/QUOTE]
so basically its like "hey! youre about to crash!"

pingrek77pl
08-21-2014, 05:32 PM
As i said in my own thread (http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?91047-My-ideas-and-projects-for-LittleBigPlanet-3) there should be Frankenstein Tweaker, allowing us to create enemies without logic :D
THAT could be the best tool ever made :3

Ash_uk1
08-21-2014, 06:30 PM
A better memerizer. Maybe a memerizer like microchip that remembers the state of all logic placed in it

Bladex61
08-22-2014, 02:08 AM
so basically its like "hey! youre about to crash!"

Maybe for PS3

ZNBJ
08-23-2014, 04:39 AM
Im interested in the custom HUDs. In LBPK, u could sorta customize the hud, but making it from scratch would be cooler. It would also be easier to make life bars and stuff like that.

runner21
08-23-2014, 06:50 PM
1. Way...way way more THERMOETER

we are going to need a much more forgiving thermometer than in LBP2

I know this might come off wrong, but you do have to understand the technical limitations behind the thermometer. The only way the can "add more thermometer" is to optimize the game, and even then, there will be very little improvement. What they did with the Dynamic Thermo is genius. They tested out how much can run at once, and then focused on making it all stitch together seamlessly. That's about the best we were going to get unless they made LBP3 a PS4 exclusive (still a little shocked/upset). If it had been, the PS4 is way more powerful than the PS3 and therefor we would've had much more thermometer to work with - not to mention the graphical and frame rate improvements.

(Slightly Off-Topic: And yes, I do understand them making LBP3 on PS3 from a business standpoint. It's just that in my opinion the series could've used a technical overhaul rather than the PS3 sequel we're receiving.

Rpg Maker
08-23-2014, 08:41 PM
I know this might come off wrong, but you do have to understand the technical limitations behind the thermometer. The only way the can "add more thermometer" is to optimize the game, and even then, there will be very little improvement. What they did with the Dynamic Thermo is genius. They tested out how much can run at once, and then focused on making it all stitch together seamlessly. That's about the best we were going to get unless they made LBP3 a PS4 exclusive (still a little shocked/upset). If it had been, the PS4 is way more powerful than the PS3 and therefor we would've had much more thermometer to work with - not to mention the graphical and frame rate improvements.

(Slightly Off-Topic: And yes, I do understand them making LBP3 on PS3 from a business standpoint. It's just that in my opinion the series could've used a technical overhaul rather than the PS3 sequel we're receiving.

Maybe for platformers, and this is why I say that. Most of the thermo spent on RPGs in most cases are not for environments. My own projects, and projects I helped mentor, most of the cost comes from logic and sackbots. I understand the dynamic thermometer allows us to stitch levels together seamlessly, however, this doesnt fix the issue at all for RPGs. We got around that by using the emit destroy technique.

For RPGs to be able to go to the next level in LBP, there must be a higher tolerance from the single level thermometer. As long as that is better than the LBP2 version( and it doesnt even have to be thousands of times more) then we are headed in the right direction.

runner21
08-24-2014, 04:06 PM
I understand the dynamic thermometer allows us to stitch levels together seamlessly

For RPGs to be able to go to the next level in LBP, there must be a higher tolerance from the single level thermometer. As long as that is better than the LBP2 version( and it doesnt even have to be thousands of times more) then we are headed in the right direction.

The dynamic thermo isn't just for multiple levels. The thermo can, and will, vary all throughout a single level. If there's a ton of stuff over at this boss fight, the thermo may be high. But over in the edge of your level, the thermo is very low. I understand this may not help your RPG if there's always a high thermo wherever your logic is, but it still will help the majority of levels

As I mentioned in my original post, there can't be "a higher tolerance" because of technical limitations. The thermo is pretty much a graphic for what the PS3 can handle. Your PS3's specs won't change, so neither will your thermometer. Of course, they could optimize the game better, making the PS3 work less, but that won't make a significant difference in the long run.


For RPGs to be able to go to the next level in LBP

I completely agree of course. This is why in my OP I explained why I thought LBP3 should have been a PS4 exclusive.

wally-217
08-24-2014, 04:26 PM
I completely agree of course. This is why in my OP I explained why I thought LBP3 should have been a PS4 exclusive.

The PS4 is way to new for LBP3 to be PS4 exclusive. I don't exactly know how easy they've made it to develop on but it usually takes a few years for games to be fully optimised and have truly next-gen graphics. Although, that might have been because the PS3 was stated to be a nightmare to develop on. And a lot of logic experts have said that 30 fps is necessary for backwards compatibility as it would mess up some of the more advanced logic.
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I think the ability to place logic on characters instead of sackbots will be very useful to RPG's. I just hope there is some way of making controlinators match the right characters. I suppose it could be possible to place a controlinator transmitter on the character itself but I'm not sure.

Rpg Maker
08-28-2014, 02:51 AM
The dynamic thermo isn't just for multiple levels. The thermo can, and will, vary all throughout a single level. If there's a ton of stuff over at this boss fight, the thermo may be high. But over in the edge of your level, the thermo is very low. I understand this may not help your RPG if there's always a high thermo wherever your logic is, but it still will help the majority of levels

As I mentioned in my original post, there can't be "a higher tolerance" because of technical limitations. The thermo is pretty much a graphic for what the PS3 can handle. Your PS3's specs won't change, so neither will your thermometer. Of course, they could optimize the game better, making the PS3 work less, but that won't make a significant difference in the long run.



I completely agree of course. This is why in my OP I explained why I thought LBP3 should have been a PS4 exclusive.

Yea you make a great point..even if we kind of looped lol I just dont see much advantages from the dynamic thermo vs the emit/destroy technique other than saving us from memory crashes and faster transitions--cant complain about that though and every RPG could benefit from it. Maybe I am just wanting a PS4 exclusive. I guess I was wondering if it was any better than LBP2's, because I remember LBP2's being a step above its predecessor, even if its marginal. But I think someone said it wasnt. Not sure how true that is though.



The PS4 is way to new for LBP3 to be PS4 exclusive. I don't exactly know how easy they've made it to develop on but it usually takes a few years for games to be fully optimised and have truly next-gen graphics. Although, that might have been because the PS3 was stated to be a nightmare to develop on. And a lot of logic experts have said that 30 fps is necessary for backwards compatibility as it would mess up some of the more advanced logic.
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I think the ability to place logic on characters instead of sackbots will be very useful to RPG's. I just hope there is some way of making controlinators match the right characters. I suppose it could be possible to place a controlinator transmitter on the character itself but I'm not sure.

I'm guessing its going to work much like sackbots, they just no longer have to be bots. One mechanic that will also be useful is actually the powerup creator. Would be much easier to create weapons and multiple items to be swapped instantly. I seen one video where the guy made like hand drill weapon. That was really cool.

GribbleGrunger
08-29-2014, 05:23 AM
I am absolutely certain they'll allow people to create HUDs. It makes so much sense and it's something that's been requested SO many times. As I mentioned in another thread, the level we saw with Oddsock is completely built from Pinball machine parts which suggests to me they're going to cover quite a few different genres as opposed to just offering random things in the hope it satisfies everyone's needs. An RPG level seems such an obvious level to include, as does an Arcade level. I'm also certain that we'll now get a top down view of Sackboy and friends.