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View Full Version : Auto Parallax Scrolling



GribbleGrunger
09-27-2014, 01:40 PM
A simple idea really but I'm not sure how easy it would be to implement in reality. You would be able to set each of the extra layers (13) to scroll slightly faster or slower than the first 3 layers. The default would be 0 (= no parralax scrolling) with -10 or +10 as an option. You would design each layer separately and designate a speed. Great for shooters or those distant mountains/forests/hills when ambling, swinging, jumping, swimming or flying through a level.

MMLgamer
09-28-2014, 03:57 PM
What you want is something I think would be called Localized Depth of Field, with each layer having it's own tweak for distance and relative focus. Am I right?

SEWO97
09-28-2014, 07:44 PM
What you want is something I think would be called Localized Depth of Field, with each layer having it's own tweak for distance and relative focus. Am I right?

I didn't honestly understand his post but what you've wrote is a nice idea. This would help creating menu backgrounds. increase focus on the more core aspects of levels like platformers and films. Rather endless list of positives for a feature much like this.

GribbleGrunger
09-28-2014, 10:23 PM
What you want is something I think would be called Localized Depth of Field, with each layer having it's own tweak for distance and relative focus. Am I right?

No. Each layer scrolls at a slightly different speed than the layer next to it. That's parallax scrolling. To get the right effect, the first layer would scroll much faster than the last layer and each layer in between would scroll incrementally faster in between. If we could set the scrolling speed of each layer separately we'd be able to create this effect easily.

This is Parallax scrolling:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RZRE0M3Hvc

This is what you currently have to do to achieve this effect:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEplXDGqtAM&hd=1

Lord-Dreamerz
09-28-2014, 10:45 PM
hmm... Not saying it's a bad idea, but not really sure why we would need it to automatically do it? I have worked on quite a few auto-scrolling emitted levels in private and it's not really hard to make parallax scrolling BGs... And in a non-auto-scrolling level I can understand that you may want more depth options as you can't fake it as well as you can in auto-scrolling level... However if you change the depth of field on a cam or movie cam you make it so it looks like things pass by quicker. But The 3D layers glitch should still work on LBP3, which means you can always put more far off in the BG to get better parallax scrolling. *mew

SEWO97
09-28-2014, 11:46 PM
hmm... Not saying it's a bad idea, but not really sure why we would need it to automatically do it? I have worked on quite a few auto-scrolling emitted levels in private and it's not really hard to make parallax scrolling BGs... And in a non-auto-scrolling level I can understand that you may want more depth options as you can't fake it as well as you can in auto-scrolling level... However if you change the depth of field on a cam or movie cam you make it so it looks like things pass by quicker. But The 3D layers glitch should still work on LBP3, which means you can always put more far off in the BG to get better parallax scrolling. *mew

Additionally its much more impressive if the creator has the ability to do it themselves leaving them more independent. If Sumo start creating tools that is logic and can be made for us what's the point in making any logic. There are new tools that enable us to do stuff we weren't able to before, but asking them to spend development time on a tool that the players can make without the tool is a waste of time.

I know it's only a suggestion but I'm only being logical. I don't see a point in something that allows us to do something we already can.

Lord-Dreamerz
09-29-2014, 01:00 AM
Additionally its much more impressive if the creator has the ability to do it themselves leaving them more independent. If Sumo start creating tools that is logic and can be made for us what's the point in making any logic. There are new tools that enable us to do stuff we weren't able to before, but asking them to spend development time on a tool that the players can make without the tool is a waste of time.

I know it's only a suggestion but I'm only being logical. I don't see a point in something that allows us to do something we already can.

Actually my opinion as a game developer and artist I feel that streamlining create tools is better and that there's no reason to do things the hard way just for the sake of it, if you have shortcut tools that do just as good of a job then why not at least have the option? When LBP2 added jump-pads a lot of us loved them even tho we could handcraft jump-pads ourselves... Sure it was a lot harder and not as good... but point is we could... To me it's more nice to just start real actual design work on your game instead of putting all your time and effort working on mostly the technical aspects behind the game. Well what I'm trying to say is to me it's more nice to just get your game made and not really super important how it was made. *mew

But at the same time I don't think more parallax options is needed much as we have fairly enough options for it already.

MMLgamer
09-29-2014, 01:09 AM
No. Each layer scrolls at a slightly different speed than the layer next to it. That's parallax scrolling. To get the right effect, the first layer would scroll much faster than the last layer and each layer in between would scroll incrementally faster in between. If we could set the scrolling speed of each layer separately we'd be able to create this effect easily.The effect is designed to create the illusion of distance. Depth of Field (or Depth of Layer) does the exact same thing only better.

SEWO97
09-29-2014, 01:34 AM
Actually my opinion as a game developer and artist I feel that streamlining create tools is better and that there's no reason to do things the hard way just for the sake of it, if you have shortcut tools that do just as good of a job then why not at least have the option? When LBP2 added jump-pads a lot of us loved them even tho we could handcraft jump-pads ourselves... Sure it was a lot harder and not as good... but point is we could... To me it's more nice to just start real actual design work on your game instead of putting all your time and effort working on mostly the technical aspects behind the game. Well what I'm trying to say is to me it's more nice to just get your game made and not really super important how it was made. *mew

But at the same time I don't think more parallax options is needed much as we have fairly enough options for it already.

When I say we don't need tools that allow us to do things that we can already do. I meant such as this topic. The purpose of the developer investing time into a rarely used tool is pointless, the tool would provide only a small amount of progress in the entire system that would be needed to be created. I agree with on the bounce pads, it made creating levels much easier. But the tool suggested in this conversation is again, pointless.

GribbleGrunger
09-29-2014, 05:04 AM
The effect is designed to create the illusion of distance. Depth of Field (or Depth of Layer) does the exact same thing only better.

They're completely different effects. I've put a video up to show what Parallax scrolling is and it isn't depth of field. One creates the illusion of depth while the other creates the illusion of distance with motion. when you look out of your car window and see the fences moving quickly, the fields moving slightly slower and the mountains in the far distance moving very slowly, that's the illusion Parallax scrolling can give. Depth of field does not create that illusion, it just creates the illusion that the fence is close, the fields are slightly further away and the mountain is far away. You cannot have trees in the foreground speeding by with depth of field, you can only have them sharper than the layers behind (but moving at the same speed). Of course, if the addition I'm suggesting is added, then we can combine the two for an even greater effect.

You'll also notice that ComphermC only manages to create parallax scrolling on one direction, which is only any good for a game that requires you to go in one direction like a sidescrolling shooter. What we need is the ability to make parallax scrolling work in both directions easily.

SEWO97
09-29-2014, 10:55 AM
You'll also notice that ComphermC only manages to create parallax scrolling on one direction, which is only any good for a game that requires you to go in one direction like a sidescrolling shooter. What we need is the ability to make parallax scrolling work in both directions easily.

I think if he wanted to he could create a system that goes both left and right. This hole topic has kinda gone of topic.

Devious_Oatmeal
09-29-2014, 12:16 PM
They're completely different effects. I've put a video up to show what Parallax scrolling is and it isn't depth of field. One creates the illusion of depth while the other creates the illusion of distance with motion. when you look out of your car window and see the fences moving quickly, the fields moving slightly slower and the mountains in the far distance moving very slowly, that's the illusion Parallax scrolling can give. Depth of field does not create that illusion, it just creates the illusion that the fence is close, the fields are slightly further away and the mountain is far away. You cannot have trees in the foreground speeding by with depth of field, you can only have them sharper than the layers behind (but moving at the same speed). Of course, if the addition I'm suggesting is added, then we can combine the two for an even greater effect.

You'll also notice that ComphermC only manages to create parallax scrolling on one direction, which is only any good for a game that requires you to go in one direction like a sidescrolling shooter. What we need is the ability to make parallax scrolling work in both directions easily.

You can easily make it go both ways and even stop if say the player was running, then decided to stop to do something. And with the 16 layers, the effect can look even better. Too tired at the moment to fully explain, but there was a level I was working on a looong time ago called [REDACTED] and I needed the background to zoom by at times depending on how fast the player was going. I should really get back to that level- anyways!

A tool like that could come in handy for some other things. Like if, let's say, someone had a level that used multiple layers to run on, but movers would be a bit difficult due to the moving pieces in the scenes moving in the background, which would also be interactive once the player got to those back levels. Only real answer I have to make this 'work' is using stickiness to grab things when moving the background. But it wouldn't be able to grab everything in cases where things were on top of other things that weren't sticky. Not to mention when you sticky moving parts, it stops them. You COULD use some holo and the bolts for moving pieces though- Hmm...

I don't think a tool that was specifically for parallax scrolling would be necessary. This may be my sleepiness talking, but how would they make that tool work with an infinite level? Are they going to spawn the backgrounds for you after you tell the tool what to spawn? (In that case, just use the spawner method since it offers more control) Are you going to make a really big background? (Which if you did, then that only makes it easier to do as a creator)If the player made it themselves, they'd have more control, and the skills they would learn from doing it themselves would help with other logic systems; for example, if they didn't even want to have the endless scrolling to be in the background. Now they know a new technique to make it possible and maybe easier.

GribbleGrunger
09-29-2014, 03:44 PM
You can easily make it go both ways and even stop if say the player was running, then decided to stop to do something. And with the 16 layers, the effect can look even better. Too tired at the moment to fully explain, but there was a level I was working on a looong time ago called [REDACTED] and I needed the background to zoom by at times depending on how fast the player was going. I should really get back to that level- anyways!

A tool like that could come in handy for some other things. Like if, let's say, someone had a level that used multiple layers to run on, but movers would be a bit difficult due to the moving pieces in the scenes moving in the background, which would also be interactive once the player got to those back levels. Only real answer I have to make this 'work' is using stickiness to grab things when moving the background. But it wouldn't be able to grab everything in cases where things were on top of other things that weren't sticky. Not to mention when you sticky moving parts, it stops them. You COULD use some holo and the bolts for moving pieces though- Hmm...

I don't think a tool that was specifically for parallax scrolling would be necessary. This may be my sleepiness talking, but how would they make that tool work with an infinite level? Are they going to spawn the backgrounds for you after you tell the tool what to spawn? (In that case, just use the spawner method since it offers more control) Are you going to make a really big background? (Which if you did, then that only makes it easier to do as a creator)If the player made it themselves, they'd have more control, and the skills they would learn from doing it themselves would help with other logic systems; for example, if they didn't even want to have the endless scrolling to be in the background. Now they know a new technique to make it possible and maybe easier.

Obviously you would need more width to play with for the very front layer and less for the back layer, and you would have to be very careful how you linked sections together, but it would add a visual flare to a lot of creations. Imagine a simple forest scene with sackboy strolling through. You could set the front layer to move the fastest and place trees and bushes on it. The next layer could be grass and the layer after that would be the layer sackboy is walking on. Then you'd add trees in the next few layers all moving slightly slower than the previous layer and a last layer with mountain moving very slowly. You would obviously have to limit the stroll to a certain extent because otherwise the first layer with the trees could end up being as long as the whole level, but the back layer would be much shorter of course. It would just make the effect possible for even beginners and give more experienced creators another tool to bend to their will.

MMLgamer
09-29-2014, 04:43 PM
They're completely different effects. I've put a video up to show what Parallax scrolling is and it isn't depth of field. One creates the illusion of depth while the other creates the illusion of distance with motion. when you look out of your car window and see the fences moving quickly, the fields moving slightly slower and the mountains in the far distance moving very slowly, that's the illusion Parallax scrolling can give. Depth of field does not create that illusion, it just creates the illusion that the fence is close, the fields are slightly further away and the mountain is far away. You cannot have trees in the foreground speeding by with depth of field, you can only have them sharper than the layers behind (but moving at the same speed). Of course, if the addition I'm suggesting is added, then we can combine the two for an even greater effect.
You are only half-correct. By first order logic, you cannot have depth without distance. The only really meaningful difference is that in my version, the mountains would have to be bigger to make up for the fact that they are far away. Beyond that and the need for a simple auto-scrolling function, there really isn't much of a difference between your version and mine. Further evidence can be found when comparing create mode's front view with the normal view. In front view, the objects in the background appear much bigger and move much faster because they appear to occupy the same layer.

Devious_Oatmeal
09-29-2014, 06:12 PM
Obviously you would need more width to play with for the very front layer and less for the back layer, and you would have to be very careful how you linked sections together, but it would add a visual flare to a lot of creations. Imagine a simple forest scene with sackboy strolling through. You could set the front layer to move the fastest and place trees and bushes on it. The next layer could be grass and the layer after that would be the layer sackboy is walking on. Then you'd add trees in the next few layers all moving slightly slower than the previous layer and a last layer with mountain moving very slowly. You would obviously have to limit the stroll to a certain extent because otherwise the first layer with the trees could end up being as long as the whole level, but the back layer would be much shorter of course. It would just make the effect possible for even beginners and give more experienced creators another tool to bend to their will.

If you use just a big creator-made backdrop to scroll, then that can be done very easily without the need for the parallax tool. If it's all glued together, or emitted like the Comf video you posted then movers could be used with ease.

But I don't think it should be called a parallax tool. Instead, we could have a Layer Manipulator Tool in general. "This layer can switch with this layer. These layers now merge! This layer moves as if it were one solid piece of material. This layer can go back and forth. You can spin this whole layer!" And maybe have it to where you can manipulate more than one layer at once.

cuddelbunny
10-03-2014, 01:35 AM
Actually my opinion as a game developer and artist I feel that streamlining create tools is better and that there's no reason to do things the hard way just for the sake of it, if you have shortcut tools that do just as good of a job then why not at least have the option? When LBP2 added jump-pads a lot of us loved them even tho we could handcraft jump-pads ourselves... Sure it was a lot harder and not as good... but point is we could... To me it's more nice to just start real actual design work on your game instead of putting all your time and effort working on mostly the technical aspects behind the game. Well what I'm trying to say is to me it's more nice to just get your game made and not really super important how it was made. *mew

But at the same time I don't think more parallax options is needed much as we have fairly enough options for it already.

your a game devloper to yay




If you use just a big creator-made backdrop to scroll, then that can be done very easily without the need for the parallax tool. If it's all glued together, or emitted like the Comf video you posted then movers could be used with ease.

But I don't think it shouldn't be called a parallax tool. Instead, we could have a Layer Manipulator Tool in general. "This layer can switch with this layer. These layers now merge! This layer moves as if it were one solid piece of material. This layer can go back and forth. You can spin this whole layer!" And maybe have it to where you can manipulate more than one layer at once.
i like that a lot lot better can you post that as a sugestin ples and thank you this wold be more pawerful for creaters
this tool wold have meeny uses un like the parallax tool wich sound like it wold only be made for one use and not a bunch like this tool