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valious2corvus
10-03-2014, 04:49 AM
What does a 'level' need to have a high replay value?

I believe that we, 'sack-racers' share some common intrests in what we like to see in levels.
When ever I turn on the game, I always check the 'newest levels'. And play a dozen or so depending on the day.
Some people get a few plays, and maybe a replay.
Not saying anybodies 'levels' are bad, they are just missing the 'replay value'.
Now the question is, what few things could/should be added/changed to increase 'replay value'?

1. A complete track/arena:
-few>no glitches or broken sections. (jumps, turns, unavoidable slams)
-aligned 'power-ups' to proper track height.
-alot of people are using this in a race track, "the track goes up, then down and turns"(blind hill). The problem with this "hill" is the tendency to fly off track.

Even the simplist tracks/arenas have the potential to have a 'high replay value'.
-IMPORTANT- *Do not rush publish a level please (It take longer than a couple hours). Test everything first.

2. Tell family, friends, LBPK community.
-Word of mouth, tell your friends, family.
-Join this forum, and share your 'level' with the rest of the community (It's free).

-Keep building, always pushing yourself forward.-

StJimmysAdiction
10-03-2014, 05:32 AM
More than just a complete track, it needs to be well done in a couple complimentary ways.

A level needs any combination of these: a well made track layout - fun to traverse, easy to play, hard to master; a good and immersive environment; unique, fun, and well made mechanics; interesting and viable custom weapons; commensurate and fun shortcuts; variability, so it's a little different each time you play it - almost a new experience each time; rewards to work towards, that can take a few attempts to get them all.

Any group of a couple or few of these can make a good, replayable level.

- - - - - - - - - -

More than just a complete track, it needs to be well done in a couple complimentary ways.

A level needs any combination of these: a well made track layout - fun to traverse, easy to play, hard to master; a good and immersive environment; unique, fun, and well made mechanics; interesting and viable custom weapons; commensurate and fun shortcuts; variability, so it's a little different each time you play it - almost a new experience each time; rewards to work towards, that can take a few attempts to get them all.

Any group of a couple or few of these can make a good, replayable level.

valious2corvus
10-03-2014, 04:27 PM
We as 'level builders' should have some levels with 'increase enemy difficulty'.
Or even, easy, medium, hard levels.
One level copied three times each with a different difficulty.

What would happen if...
1. You played a normal published fun level and 'aced' it on your first run (getting everything and 1st), would you replay it?
2. You played a 'harder diffculty' published fun level and didn't even rank on your first run (4-8 place), would you replay it?

You could even have better 'prizes/awards' for higher difficulty.

But you also have to have a fun factor.

So three key things...
1. Is it build good? (no broken walls/weapons/boost/shortcuts...)
2. Is it fun? (lots to do, find, explore...)
3. Is it challenging? (did you have a great battle/race or did you close you eyes and win)

What would a good 'time limit' be?
I personally enjoy races about five minutes long. About a 1.5>2 minutes per lap (for 3 laps).
For battle arenas, it depends. 10-15 hits, or 5-10 minutes.
For Explore/Rpg type, unlimited time.
Ther are many other types, which have 'number of lives/balls/tries'.

*Please don't say "a good mario remake will get high replays".

Devious_Oatmeal
10-03-2014, 07:06 PM
I want to mention that with the new ability to make power-ups and unique stickers in LBP3, I think community prizes will be more worth the effort.

Anyways.

Just wanted to add some stuff.

What to avoid:

- Laziness (Well. I put this block of cardboard here....... Time to publish!)
- Repetitiveness (Nascar)
- Lack of Uniqueness (Sharks, Skateboards, and Madden- OH MY!)
- Uncreativeness (Madden, Sharks, and Skateboards- OH MY!)
- Untested... -ness (Day 54 in the pit purgatory: Maybe they planned on this happening and I'm just not seeing the right path...)
- Unchallenging (Go left [ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED])
- Too challenging (You never mentioned the Crocaducks, squad of harpoon-armed squids, and... is that Ninja Gaiden?!)
- Non-User Friendly (Oh the joys of X moving left, R1 being pause, and Start being "Sorry. No refunds!")
- Unrewarding (Deep Voice: You have slain the basilisk, conquered the temple, and saved the world. Here's a stale cookie)
- Hand Holding (Navi's Cousin: So here's what you do, A is the answer, and this is a rock)
- Misleading (HAHAHAHA! I can't believe you tried to jump off the edge towards that decoration!)
- Prior Knowledge (What do you mean you don't know how to savalay against the Ickagor?! That's like, common knowledge bro)
- Poor Teaching (Step 1: Draw a circle. Step 2: Bake a souffle. Step 3: And that is how you perform brain surgery)
- And then more to come.... Maybe.

Scorpio1357
10-03-2014, 08:10 PM
I want to mention that with the new ability to make power-ups and unique stickers in LBP3, I think community prizes will be more worth the effort.

None of this unfortunately will be available to LBPKarting though unless you know something different?

Devious_Oatmeal
10-03-2014, 09:03 PM
None of this unfortunately will be available to LBPKarting though unless you know something different?

lol Never played it, except for the demo, and didn't even notice this was the Karting thread. I jump around by the new posts link.

BUT! some of what I said may still be helpful. Racing games are still games after all, and some of what I said applies to pretty much any game.

After a little research into the logic of Karting and what you can do in the game, (Granted, that knowledge is not as extensive as someone who has played it for a while), it looks like some views towards racers in general can still apply. Which by the way... There is a lot of stuff in LBP Karting that people have been asking for in LBP2. That's pretty interesting.

But most of what I said can apply.

valious2corvus
10-04-2014, 05:57 AM
None of this unfortunately will be available to LBPKarting though unless you know something different?

We can make "power-ups and unique stickers" in LBPK.
All the custom 'weapons/karts' (power-ups), and all the 'level stickers' (create an object, take a picture of it, share as prize).

StJimmysAdiction
10-04-2014, 01:28 PM
lol Never played it, except for the demo, and didn't even notice this was the Karting thread. I jump around by the new posts link.

BUT! some of what I said may still be helpful. Racing games are still games after all, and some of what I said applies to pretty much any game.

After a little research into the logic of Karting and what you can do in the game, (Granted, that knowledge is not as extensive as someone who has played it for a while), it looks like some views towards racers in general can still apply. Which by the way... There is a lot of stuff in LBP Karting that people have been asking for in LBP2. That's pretty interesting.

But most of what I said can apply.

Not just most of what you said applies, but all of it. More than a racing game, lbpk is a 3D world editor. Your post is full of insightful points for creators to be mindful of.

Would recommend trying out create mode for it, there's so much possible, or at least try out some of the more creative levels like scorpios first person adventures to see what how far some people push it.

Devious_Oatmeal
10-05-2014, 06:56 AM
Not just most of what you said applies, but all of it. More than a racing game, lbpk is a 3D world editor. Your post is full of insightful points for creators to be mindful of.

Would recommend trying out create mode for it, there's so much possible, or at least try out some of the more creative levels like scorpios first person adventures to see what how far some people push it.

I've actually been looking at quite a few videos on the game and what you can do. I have now asked myself why I never bought it when it first came out, and when I first played the demo, my gut told me too.

But I guess LBP2 took up too much of my time, and then I had a dry spell in the urge of wanting to play. And now I've come back to LBP2 after like, a year.

I would actually buy Karting if it wasn't for ooooone major issue- LBP3. Now that that's about to come out, I've been playing LBP2, making stuff all over again, and reminding myself of the tools. Once LBP3 is out, I won't have time for Karting, sadly.

valious2corvus
10-15-2014, 06:22 PM
Unfortunatly when the new 'reeses pieces cereal' comes out, I wont have time for real food.
...
I thought this was a dedicated forum for LBPK related news and input.

Anyways, I hope you enjoy your new cereal (now with an extra marshmellows).

Devious_Oatmeal
10-16-2014, 10:03 AM
Unfortunatly when the new 'reeses pieces cereal' comes out, I wont have time for real food.
...
I thought this was a dedicated forum for LBPK related news and input.

Anyways, I hope you enjoy your new cereal (now with an extra marshmellows).

My rebuttal (http://tinyurl.com/m33phxk). (sound)

Butsrsly. I was simply stating that Karting is something I would like to get, but LBP3 will be taking up my time.

Despite the fact that I do not play karting, that does not mean I can't have any input.


And yesh. I shall enjoy my cereal with the marshmallows while enjoying the box and look of this other brand!

gipsy
10-16-2014, 02:50 PM
I think that karting is free with ps +. Otherwise it should cost maximum 10$. You should try it.

Devious_Oatmeal
10-16-2014, 08:48 PM
I think that karting is free with ps +. Otherwise it should cost maximum 10$. You should try it.

I really should, but LBP3! :( Dang you Sumo. Why did you have to come out with LBP3 already?! :mad: Iamkiddingofcourse.

All focus would be on LBP3, and at the moment, I'm looking at all the LBP3 beta vids and learning the new logic and tools to see how I am going to incorporate them into levels and such. Which takes up the time I would be using to play Karting if I had it.

I might just pick it up if it's only $10 though. It may just sit there collecting dust for the next year, but at least I'll have it! Unless they come out with a second one... Then I would be overwhelmed by the options of being able to create things! :cry:

I actually have a bunch of tabs with LBP3 videos and threads open as I am typing this.

valious2corvus
10-16-2014, 09:51 PM
LBP3 this, LBP3 that... Dude your in the wrong forum.
Its funny how your trying to 'push' that game.
We get it, you like it.
Now get this, This forum is about LBPK.

I have no quams with your excitement, its just in the wrong neighbourhood.

As for your comment on LBPK2... they dont need to make it, LBPK is a fully complete game. Unlike the 3rd installment of your LBP game (now with extra marshmellows they left out 2 times before).

Now can we get back to the original topic of this forum, "replay value".

Thanks, Cheers and all those other niceties.

Devious_Oatmeal
10-16-2014, 10:21 PM
LBP3 this, LBP3 that... Dude your in the wrong forum.
Its funny how your trying to 'push' that game.
We get it, you like it.
Now get this, This forum is about LBPK.

I have no quams with your excitement, its just in the wrong neighbourhood.

As for your comment on LBPK2... they dont need to make it, LBPK is a fully complete game. Unlike the 3rd installment of your LBP game (now with extra marshmellows they left out 2 times before).

Now can we get back to the original topic of this forum, "replay value".

Thanks, Cheers and all those other niceties.

Omg... Dude. They mentioned that I should get it. I gave a reason. It could have been tacos or an actual cereal that would be taking up my time. I'd still mention it because it is my reason. I'm not trying to push it, I'm not trying to showcase it, and I'm not trying to say anything like "Ha ha. I has betr game."

I like Karting, I want to play Karting, but there's this other thing that keeps me from playing Karting.

Also, I didn't say, in any way, that they SHOULD make a second Karting.

I don't want to fill this thread with my reasons, but they said I should get Karting, so I gave a response. And I sure as heck don't want to fill this thread with what I am filling it with right now with this post, but you felt the need to post what you posted, so I must post something back to give my response and defend that what I am doing IS NOT what you think I am trying to do.

Next time, just PM me or post a visitor message instead of here, that way I do not need to respond in here. The only reason I am responding here now is because I am responding to the message you posted in here, publicly. So I must defend myself, publicly.

Scorpio1357
10-16-2014, 10:36 PM
Now can we get back to the original topic of this forum, "replay value".

Ok. Back to it then. I've thought of a way to randomise levels during the build of my latest level. I can't do anything with it because the thermo is almost maxxed out, but.........

Using the randomiser gadget you could make any number of collectable objects/score bubbles/prize bubbles appear. I have 20 in my level, however if you had the randomiser connected to lets say 50 emitters but a counter set to only count to 10 that triggers the randomiser it stands to reason you would get a 'nearly new' experience for multiple plays.

valious2corvus
10-16-2014, 10:44 PM
Great idea, that way you'd only get 'x' amount of prizes per turn. If you wanted them all, you'd have to play (replay) abunch of times. Hopeing that the randomizer would give you the ones you still needed.
For sure, Excellent addition.

- - - - - - - - - -

You could use the randomizer idea for 'opening' doors/new passages. With your idea, you could pretty much make the entire level 'different' with each experiance.

Devious_Oatmeal
10-16-2014, 10:53 PM
Ok. Back to it then. I've thought of a way to randomise levels during the build of my latest level. I can't do anything with it because the thermo is almost maxxed out, but.........

Using the randomiser gadget you could make any number of collectable objects/score bubbles/prize bubbles appear. I have 20 in my level, however if you had the randomiser connected to lets say 50 emitters but a counter set to only count to 10 that triggers the randomiser it stands to reason you would get a 'nearly new' experience for multiple plays.

What you're talking about is basically a kind of random level generation. Except you're changing what's in the stage, rather than changing the stage itself.

Hmm... What if you did it with power-ups as well? I'd say maybe whole tracks could be emitted randomly with a set criteria, but that's a lot to do.

Or uhm... Obstacles. This obstacle was here at one point, but now it's over here!

Also, maybe... Make the course with a ton of different ways it could be raced through, slice it up, then have the emitters place the paths that the player must take this go-around.

The changes would require the player to play due to skill and not memorization of the track.

Scorpio1357
10-16-2014, 10:59 PM
Great idea, that way you'd only get 'x' amount of prizes per turn. If you wanted them all, you'd have to play (replay) abunch of times. Hopeing that the randomizer would give you the ones you still needed.
For sure, Excellent addition.

- - - - - - - - - -

You could use the randomizer idea for 'opening' doors/new passages. With your idea, you could pretty much make the entire level 'different' with each experiance.

Thanks, I'll do a tutorial on how simple it is to do after I finish the Superman build. It's really only a change to the default settings on the randomizer that does the job, plus the counter connection obviously.