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View Full Version : New twists on old logic components aka: What does "owned by Sackboy" mean?



Sehven
11-26-2014, 01:49 AM
I'm seeing some new tweaks on some of the logic that I don't understand.


Tag - "Owned by Sackboy": There's no "Owned by Sackboy" on tag sensors, so what does this do?
SOLVED Follower - "Stabilizer": I can probably figure this out through experimentation but if anybody knows off the top of their head what this does...
SOLVED Emitter - "Reference in Play Mode"
SOLVED Anti-Gravity - "Zero Buoyancy" I'm guessing it makes things sink in water as if they weren't in water


The rest seems pretty straight-forward and I could probably figure these out without taking taking too long but I thought I'd ask first. If anybody else has questions about new tweaks on logic, feel free to add them.

ForcesWerwolf
11-26-2014, 01:58 AM
i guess that tag thing is if you add tags to costum made powerups

Archon453
11-26-2014, 02:17 AM
I haven't had a chance to look at any of these really. :o but I imagine they are obviously helpful.

Mr_Fusion
11-26-2014, 08:21 PM
I do remember that I used the 'owned by' option in the beta to make custom spikes that only killed the player touching them. Selecting 'owned by' denoted that the activating player owned the effect. Sort of like player colour signal stuff going through tags.

Can't remeber if the owned by was on the kill tweaker or a broadcast microchip... I'll will check later though.

Sehven
11-26-2014, 08:30 PM
I do remember that I used the 'owned by' option in the beta to make custom spikes that only killed the player touching them. Selecting 'owned by' denoted that the activating player owned the effect. Sort of like player colour signal stuff going through tags.

I'm not sure I understand the custom spikes. Don't spikes normally only kill the player touching them? The color thing makes sense. Odd that it's only attached to a tag, though. What tag sensor setting do you use to detect those tags? The tag sensor doesn't have an "owned by sackboy" option.

Mr_Fusion
11-26-2014, 08:48 PM
Yah... There were no spikes... Sorry that's what I meant by 'custom'

I used a deco of thorns to make a thorn pit. Then used some sticker panel, with a kill tweaker attached to an impact sensor.

So if the sticker panel was touched it caused a spike death. Which killed everyone in the level originally. Selecting 'owned by' made it so that only the player touching the spikes owned the death.

GribbleGrunger
11-26-2014, 09:00 PM
That follower 'stabiliser' sounds awfully like a tool that could be used for HUBs. I saw a video recently in which sackboy moved and the box around him stayed solid.

Chazprime
11-26-2014, 09:59 PM
Follower - "Stabilizer": I can probably figure this out through experimentation but if anybody knows off the top of their head what this does...

I'm using this right now currently and it's pretty cool: it smooths out the path of the follower as it travels towards its destination. Before I turned this option on, objects traveling at high speeds would jump all over the place...afterwards, they track smoothly towards their targets.

There's also a cool stabilize option on gadgets with circuitboards in LBP3 - if an object is spinning with its microchip open, the board with remain upright and not rotate with the parent object.

Mr_Fusion
11-26-2014, 09:59 PM
Ok so I just recreated the custom spike thingy. It may help with the 'ownership' thing. But I tried several combinations of 'owned by' tag set ups without any results.

http://ie.lbp.me/img/ft/d9e707a59938646de41e2bf97b4f2d1c5fb41331.jpg

The red sticker panel has a red tag, and the broadcast chip is on both players. The impact trigger switches on when the player touches it, and the spike death animation is set to 'owner'. The broadcast chip ends up being owned by the player, so selecting owner only kills the person touching it.

I was thinking that the BC chip would then allow the tag to be owned by the player its attached to, but there doesn't seem to be anything that actually responds or senses the player owned tag (which always switches to blue) but a blue sensor does not see it.

LittleBigDave
12-01-2014, 07:45 PM
Emitter - "Reference in Play Mode"


This one baffled me too. According to the official tutorial videos, this applies when you are using a reference object in your level as your emitted object (rather than a saved object). If the source object is exposed to players while they play your level, and they alter it (such as with stickers), then future emitted versions will be that altered copy.

Mr_Fusion
12-01-2014, 08:07 PM
Thats pretty cool... so players can alter an object and it emits it with the alterations

fluxlasers
12-01-2014, 08:42 PM
Thats pretty cool... so players can alter an object and it emits it with the alterations

Yeah, that's how the contraption challenges work - when you start the race it emits whatever is in the box you build your contraption in.

NotALegend
12-05-2014, 12:37 AM
For the zero buoyancy, it has to do with water. I tried it out on both 100% and 0% and, I forget which did what, but one of them made me sink and the other made me rise to the surface of the water.

Sehven
12-05-2014, 05:29 AM
Thanks everybody! Looks like the only thing nobody has figured out is the "owned by sackboy" on the tag.

Here's what I've tried:
I stuck an owned by sackboy tag on a broadcast chip so it would be on my sackboy. I set up tag sensors of every color (my hypothesis was that, since I was player 1 and spawned from the "red team" checkpoint, it would inherit a red color from me), but none of the sensors detected it.

Next I tried plugging a controllinator on the same broadcast chip into the tag and setting it to receiver/nearest player. We've known since LBP2 that a controllinator operated by a player will contain that player's data in its outputs (wiring them to color sensitive materials will cause them to take on the player's color and wiring them to score bubbles will cause the player in the controllinator to receive points) so I figured this would certainly transmit my ownership to the tag. Once again, no sensors were triggered.

I'm completely baffled. I have no idea what this does or how to get anything to respond to it.

peabodyman
12-05-2014, 06:47 PM
I'm only speculating based on the name, but my guess is that it makes it so the tag is on sackboy without it actually being attached to him. So if there was a tag in the environment with that setting, when sackboy (any player) came within range of a tag sensor keyed to a tag with this set it would trigger the sensor even though no broadcast chips were applying it to him.

Just a theory. I'll have to test it later.

blastroid
12-05-2014, 06:54 PM
I have tested "owned by sackboy" myself. My theory is Sackboy got confused with tags and DLC. He thinks he owned all the DLC we are missing. So if you are looking for missing DLC question Sackboy.

Only other theory is it's a left over test and should of been removed before this bug free perfect game was released.

tdarb
12-05-2014, 07:49 PM
If memory serves, it's so that objects will be "owned" by the sackboy that created them. I think one of the big uses is for scoring on four player levels. I don't have an extra controller on PS4 so I can't test this.

I was thinking it is for emitted objects, but it may update when a player grabs an object.

peabodyman
12-05-2014, 08:00 PM
If memory serves, it's so that objects will be "owned" by the sackboy that created them. I think one of the big uses is for scoring on four player levels. I don't have an extra controller on PS4 so I can't test this.

I was thinking it is for emitted objects, but it may update when a player grabs an object.

THAT makes a lot of sense actually, I'll bet that's it. Would apply to character tweakers, game play tweakers, kill tweakers, sack pocket tweakers, teleporters, score bubble, prize bubble and collectibell inputs, as well as score givers (all of those have an 'activating player' input settings I believe, with the exception of score, prize and cottectibell inputs because that's the only input type they have). I'm guessing the tag sensor would carry along the associated ownership data from the tag for use in the above components.

I'll bet the tag itself would get ownership data via an input signal which had ownership data, or a broadcast chip applying to a player, or by being an item emitted by the player via a blaster handle power up, creatinator, etc.

Oh, and you could test it with a score giver by observing whether the score award display was white, or matched your player color when triggered. Doesn't matter if you'r in co-op or versus mode.

Sehven
12-05-2014, 08:13 PM
Interesting. I'll have to do some tests with that, but don't we already have methods for preserving player data? Also, if it's not an emitted object, how does it decide which sackboy to belong to? Grabbing might trigger it or does it just lock to the nearest player as of the time the tag was activated?

LittleBigDave
12-05-2014, 08:14 PM
I thought maybe it would become whatever team color you were assigned when using team-color-coded level entrances. So a blue tag sensor might register for the blue team members if they were wearing that "owner by player" tag via broadcast chip. Whereas the same b-chip would make a red team member emit a red signal. But alas I couldn't get that to work either.

Player ownership of signals is normally separate data on the wire that gets handled by the game automatically, so I have a hard time figuring out how the tag setting could help with score givers or what not.

peabodyman
12-05-2014, 08:15 PM
I thought maybe it would become whatever team color you were assigned when using team-color-coded level entrances. So a blue tag sensor might register for the blue team members if they were wearing that "owner by player" tag via broadcast chip. Whereas the same b-chip would make a red team member emit a red signal. But alas I couldn't get that to work either.

Player ownership of signals is normally separate data on the wire that gets handled by the game automatically, so I have a hard time figuring out how the tag setting could help with score givers or what not.

I don't believe historically tag sensor signals provided ownership info. Now, in theory, they can with this setting.

Mr_Fusion
12-05-2014, 08:20 PM
The confusing part is that there doesn't seem to be anything that senses the ownership.

maybe if you put an owned by tag an an object and Sackboy dies the object also 'dies' and has to respawn?

peabodyman
12-05-2014, 08:26 PM
The confusing part is that there doesn't seem to be anything that senses the ownership.

maybe if you put an owned by tag an an object and Sackboy dies the object also 'dies' and has to respawn?

The tag by itself won't be able to, but if you were to pipe a signal into the tag which contained ownership, I believe it would pass it along. I dissected the blink ball circuitry and saw they used a technique to provide player data to the teleporter on the circuit board by piping a battery set to player color into an "AND" gate that involved the signal from the impact sensor (impact sensors signals don't contain ownership data, even if set to only detect characters).

I think the battery gets ownership data by being on a circuit board emitted by the player.

LittleBigDave
12-05-2014, 09:08 PM
The confusing part is that there doesn't seem to be anything that senses the ownership.

maybe if you put an owned by tag an an object and Sackboy dies the object also 'dies' and has to respawn?

Yeah, this is the crux of the thing. It doesn't do any good for a tag to carry player signal if nothing can read that signal, and nothing will read the tag if it doesn't have a conventional color choice.

Here's an new one I'd like to understand:

What does the input on the left side of a Blaster Handle circuitboard get used for?

peabodyman
12-05-2014, 10:18 PM
Yeah, this is the crux of the thing. It doesn't do any good for a tag to carry player signal if nothing can read that signal, and nothing will read the tag if it doesn't have a conventional color choice.

Here's an new one I'd like to understand:

What does the input on the left side of a Blaster Handle circuitboard get used for?

Ah, yeah, didn't think of that. I misunderstood the post. Would a label work?

Sehven
12-05-2014, 11:28 PM
I don't believe historically tag sensor signals provided ownership info. Now, in theory, they can with this setting.

Yes they do, depending on how you set it up. Wire the middle output from a controllinator (the one that doesn't correspond with any button) into a tag. Place a tag sensor on another bit of material and hook it to a score giver. When the tag connected to that controllinator triggers the tag sensor, the player operating the controllinator will receive the points.


The tag by itself won't be able to, but if you were to pipe a signal into the tag which contained ownership, I believe it would pass it along. I dissected the blink ball circuitry and saw they used a technique to provide player data to the teleporter on the circuit board by piping a battery set to player color into an "AND" gate that involved the signal from the impact sensor (impact sensors signals don't contain ownership data, even if set to only detect characters).

I think the battery gets ownership data by being on a circuit board emitted by the player.

Now that is interesting. I've wondered how the blink ball worked exactly and had a pretty good idea but never got around to dissecting it to find out exactly. I'll have to examine one to see what you mean.


What does the input on the left side of a Blaster Handle circuitboard get used for?

Good question. I've wondered this too.

Biv
12-06-2014, 12:24 AM
Yeah, this is the crux of the thing. It doesn't do any good for a tag to carry player signal if nothing can read that signal, and nothing will read the tag if it doesn't have a conventional color choice.

Here's an new one I'd like to understand:

What does the input on the left side of a Blaster Handle circuitboard get used for?






Good question. I've wondered this too.

Could this be for wiring in a controllinator to get multiple effects?

Rogar
12-06-2014, 01:28 AM
On the first LBP3 twitch stream they mentioned the left output gives an angle.

Sehven
12-06-2014, 03:34 AM
On the first LBP3 twitch stream they mentioned the left output gives an angle.

?!?!?! Ooh, I'm going to have to mess with that!

I've emitted a blink ball in create mode and paused it so I could look at its logic. It has an physics tweaker set to ignore tagged objects and the tag is set to "owned by sackboy." Interesting. I wonder why it's the only logic bit that seems to recognize that particular tag setting.

Also, the battery set to player color helpfully has a note telling us specifically that it's to bring the player data to the teleporter, so that's helpful.

While we're on the subject of the blink ball, why isn't it an item in my popit? I mean the ball itself, not the powerup. Looks like the sound object has a setting for "digital ball" so I guess there should be an object in my inventory called "digital ball." Is it a prize for the 4x level or for acing the 2x level? Those are the only things I'm missing. If not, I wonder why we weren't given it.

[EDIT] Ok, I'm trying this angle thing on the left input but nothing's happening. Has anybody figured it out yet? I tried wiring the left stick into a direction combiner and changing its output to angle and wiring it into the input but nothing happened.

Mr_Fusion
12-06-2014, 05:47 AM
[EDIT] Ok, I'm trying this angle thing on the left input but nothing's happening. Has anybody figured it out yet? I tried wiring the left stick into a direction combiner and changing its output to angle and wiring it into the input but nothing happened.

Does the angle sensor interact with it?

MrLongJohn
12-06-2014, 11:33 PM
Tag - "Owned by Sackboy": There's no "Owned by Sackboy" on tag sensors, so what does this do?


After loads of searching, I think I've found the answer (or at least part of it): physics tweakers. They can ignore or single out tagged object collisions, and the tag type dialog has, unlike every other detector I can find, an "owned by sackboy" setting.

Sehven
12-07-2014, 12:05 AM
After loads of searching, I think I've found the answer (or at least part of it): physics tweakers. They can ignore or single out tagged object collisions, and the tag type dialog has, unlike every other detector I can find, an "owned by sackboy" setting.

I noticed that last night so I guess that's solved, but now I'm wondering why. As far as I can tell, it's essentially the same as having another color of tag but only for one specific function. I mean if you set the tag to "owned by sackboy" and the physics tweaker to "owned by sackboy" to get them to collide or not to collide, then sackboy doesn't really have anything to do with it, does he? Like there's a direct correlation between the tag and the tweaker that doesn't seem to require sackboy.

ILoveI6v6I
12-07-2014, 12:10 AM
I noticed that last night so I guess that's solved, but now I'm wondering why. As far as I can tell, it's essentially the same as having another color of tag but only for one specific function. I mean if you set the tag to "owned by sackboy" and the physics tweaker to "owned by sackboy" to get them to collide or not to collide, then sackboy doesn't really have anything to do with it, does he? Like there's a direct correlation between the tag and the tweaker that doesn't seem to require sackboy.

This is wrong. On the physics tweaker, the "sackboy" option doesn't require a tag at all. It just tells it to either collide with only sackboy or ignore only sackboy. The "owned by sackboy" setting on a tag is something completely different.

MrLongJohn
12-07-2014, 12:23 AM
Ah, my mistake. Then the mystery remains!

[EDIT]: Just tried this, and I think it still applies. ILoveI6v6I is right that the setting on physics tweakers does just say Sackboy, but it also applies to anything with an "Owned by Sackboy" tag on it. For instance, it's a way for you to drag objects through materials you don't collide with without having to apply an extra physics tweaker to the material. It's a little underwhelming to be honest, I hope there's other functionality we haven't found.

[EDIT 2]: There is. I don't want to speak too soon, but I think this could end up being big. So the first thing I noticed was boost boots. They can be recharged by passing through material with a tag on it, and the tag type can be set to "Controlled by Nearest Player." This works with "Owned by Sackboy" tags, and it's ownership sensitive (A tag wired with a signal owned by player two will not recharge player one's boost boots). So that was exciting. (Quick aside: the physics tweaker is not ownership sensitive as far as I can tell.)

Then I tried creatinators. If you creatinate an object with an "Owned by Sackboy" tag on it, the game creates a new label for the emitted tag corresponding to the player. The labels are "0000000002", "0000000003", "0000000004", and "0000000005", for players 1, 2, 3, & 4, respectively. There are not multiple unique labels for multiple emitted objects, nor multiple creatinators. The same behavior is displayed by emitters on powerups.

Obviously this functionality is only as powerful as the sensors that can detect it, and so far that's just physics tweakers and boost boots that I know of. However, I'm still looking. Just thought I'd give everyone an update.

Sehven
12-07-2014, 07:28 AM
I just logged out of LBP for the night so I can't test it now (time to go to bed,) but I wonder what would happen if you set a tag sensor to label "0000000002."

MrLongJohn
12-07-2014, 08:57 AM
I tried configuring the tag sensor every way I could think of, and nothing came of it.

Also, more weirdness to report: I recalled that there are actually 7 controller slots on the PS3, so I tried those. Player 1 had 0000000002 as usual, I assume Player 2 had 0000000003 (though I didn't check), but when I switched player 2 to player 5, the tag became 0000000008. So I kept switching ports (and adding controllers, in the case of last two in the list), and the results were as follows:

Player 5-0000000008
Player 6-0000000009
Player 7-0000000010
Player 4-0000000011
Player 3-0000000012
Player 2-0000000013
Player 3-0000000014
Player 4-0000000015

So something insane is going on here. Also swapping controller ports for two on controllers doesn't alter label numbers, but turning off a controller, waiting for the player to disappear, and turning it back on does (in doing so, player 3 went from 0000000014 to 000000016). Interestingly though, these player/tag associations remained when I left the level and went to a new one (e.g. 2 was still 0000000013). Sadly, I have no answers, only bewilderment. This may not actually have any practical application to speak of.

[EDIT]: I reset my PS3, and the labels actually start at 0000000000. I guess I had let two controllers turn off and back on when I first tested it.

one-mad-bunny
12-07-2014, 01:15 PM
Keep digging guys. This is very interesting. I imagine the owned by player is mostly intended for scoring logic and player teleporters. But I hope there is much more.

tdarb
12-07-2014, 06:29 PM
OOPS...I missed that this was already posted. Rats!

On the physics tweaker you can set collisions to detect or ignore tagged objects. Below the usual tag colors there is a sackboy silhouette.

If you select that sackby silhouette, it treats any objects bearing this tag the same as sackboy. I tested this by creating two identical squares of cardboard; one with the tag and one without. I then dropped them onto a piece of material set to either ignore or acknowledge items tagged as owned by sackboy. With this option set, sackboy also inherited the behavior.

That was the only tool I could find with that option on it, and while sackboy follows whatever settings are made on the physics tweaker when this option is selected, it doesn't seem to work the other way around. I was unable to get kill tweakers, player sensors, or any other tool to acknowledge the tag.

Mr_Fusion
12-07-2014, 08:24 PM
Has anyone checked if 'owned by' stuff go thorough a Velecoporter?

MrLongJohn
12-07-2014, 08:41 PM
Has anyone checked if 'owned by' stuff go thorough a Velecoporter?

It does not. Nor does it come with you (when grabbed or otherwise) through wormholes, character teleporters, slides, or layer launchers. This is true with or without player-matching labels.

Biv
12-09-2014, 02:59 AM
Quite the mystery.