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Lord-Dreamerz
12-03-2016, 01:32 PM
Howdy yall!

I come here today with a question that me and many folkz interested in Dreams probably have thought about already. Will Dreams even get the chance to become popular? Looking at the downside... It’s not something we enjoy thinking about… but the following subject is not uncommon. I was talking to somebody about upcoming PS4 games in a chatroom, after I tossed Dreams onto the small pile of games I’d care about getting… I was meet with the question from another person

“What the hell even is Dreams? Is it a movie maker or something? What‘s the point?”

When I tried to quickly explain that Dreams is a media creation engine game where you can make almost anything including nearly any kind of game or movie or whatever else... the next reply I got was

“You can do or make anything in it?! That‘s impossible! there’s no way you can make anything. The concept of the game is to vague for me... If it even is a game.”

So I guess the questions for all of us next is… Has MM bite off more then they can chew this time? Is the concept of a game that is half a game/entertainment-hub to play/watch and half a media creation engine to vague for people to want to buy it? Afterall LBP-1&2 sold good enough despite just being a lesser version of what MM has planned for Dreams… but maybe LBP was still obviously more of a game first to people beyond all else, while Dreams doesn’t give that impression to current gamers? Can Dreams pull past the stigma of being a confusing product which many can’t be bothered to understand? So many questions that only time can tell for most of them. But right now the overall public interest in Dreams is only from a small fan base while the common gamers are not yet interested It seems.

Thoughts? Feelings? Share your opinions here.

gurren009
12-03-2016, 10:00 PM
I totally I agree! The popularity of Dreams is gonna be a major thing we should be looking at. LBP became popular on 2008, back in the PS3's early years, because it was the first major creation game of its time. But as time went buy, you would have creation games like Minecraft getting more popular, and even racing games where you could create tracks, like Modnation Racers. Over time the idea of making games inside games has gotten even more popular, with games like Super Mario Maker coming out in 2015, project spark in 2014, terraria, and you would even have modding PC games and sandbox games getting more and more popular. LBP's popularity began to dwindle because it was no longer something new anymore, it became something done time and time again as more creative games have risen since 2008. Dreams might be shoved off as just another one, and if MM doesn't play this right, people might get scared off it because they'll think it's some boring Unreal Engine 4 or Unity copy, which is something we don't want. Not to mention ratings might scare people off. You know IGN, they'll probably give the game a low score simply BECAUSE of how complex it is. All we can do is hope that Dreams will have some unique aspect to it, or else it'll be shoved off as some weird indie game :(. But hey, let's now be too sad and down, MM created LBP, one of the greatest games of it's time! I'm sure they can pull something off, and really get creative! It most likely won't have nearly as much popularity as LBP, but if they could reach out to, say the Steam community, oh man, I can't even imagine how popular it'd get! If MM made the good choice to sell Dreams on both PS4 and PC, popularity would probably flow right in :)

Lord-Dreamerz
12-03-2016, 10:35 PM
people might get scared off it because they'll think it's some boring Unreal Engine 4 or Unity copy, which is something we don't want.

Personally the idea that Dreams is a more fun user friendly version of Unreal Engine & a 3D modeling program mixed together is a great selling idea to me... But that's probably because I am more of a creator then I am a gamer. Meh.

jwwphotos
12-03-2016, 11:12 PM
I would think at some point, Sony will market the crap outta it. ...but probably not until it gets closer to a reality.

gurren009
12-03-2016, 11:36 PM
I want MM to stand up to Sony if something happens and Sony wants to deadline it at the holidays of a year. It should be postponed as long as MM wants it to be.

koltonaugust
12-04-2016, 04:07 AM
I think it's pretty clear that they're letting them take their time with this project. It's been a couple of months since we've even heard anything about it, meaning we probably aren't going to meet a release date any time soon especially since the beta is looking like it's getting delayed from its vague original deadline of 2016 (said in January this year). In terms of marketing, I don't really know what they'll do. The plus side for Sony wanting to market is the PSMove really being helpful, but that also means less popularity if it seems like it's required. It's a tough road, but we'll see as we get closer. My guess for release date is next holiday season with a beta in the summer

Sir monacle
12-05-2016, 05:17 AM
I don't have a Ps4, so whatever happens will not effect me.

mdkd99
12-05-2016, 01:25 PM
I bought a PS4 with all extras for 270€ and it was new and had a static price on ebay. Save some money and you can get a PS4. It doesn't hurt, to upgrade the engine.

There will be Promotion, when Dreams is ready. Advertisment, Youtubers, reviews of many critics and so on. I don't think it will fail.

blacksackman
12-05-2016, 01:57 PM
Although the creating aspect is a huge part of the game, creators has always been the minority. The majority are just players and they usually just tinker with the storymode and community games created by others. I firmly believe that Dreams will receive plenty of attention but it's up to the package, so to speak.

jwwphotos
12-05-2016, 04:17 PM
Although the creating aspect is a huge part of the game, creators has always been the minority. The majority are just players and they usually just tinker with the storymode and community games created by others. I firmly believe that Dreams will receive plenty of attention but it's up to the package, so to speak.

Yup.. I would agree creators are the minority... even now, I am betting a poll among gamers would have many of them not knowing what LBP even is... let alone Dreams.

Devious_Oatmeal
12-06-2016, 10:06 AM
To a large degree, the success of Dreams lies within the community of creators, despite them being the minority. Unlike games like Minecraft, you don't have a world already created that you can build off of, or a world where it is unique to you through RNG, and choose to just explore. That exploring comes with the benefit of influencing, experiencing, and inspiring ideas based off of terrain, without a person actually having to build it. A person(s) has to create everything in Dreams, from what I understand.

I am pointing this out because this may be one of the problems to new players. And with how broad and vague the game looks to be, it may be daunting. What MM is making, or seems to be making, has stepped into a much larger field as well, as they will be 'competing' with actual game-dev software if actual money is involved with people making games/levels, and then publishing them.

It can't be said if they have bitten off more than they can handle because we have never seen this done before. I don't even know how they will market it, as the usual marketing as a game would possibly be too restrictive on what it is, and marketing it as a game-dev tool would be far too broad. Depending on how they make Dreams, it will be in a very interesting middle-ground.

comishguy67
12-06-2016, 03:22 PM
I certainly do hope so! I'd hate to see such a great idea with a lot of potential get lost in the trenches. I don't think Dreams has a market identity yet, in that it's not marketed as a straight-forward FPS or Action Adventure game (although ironically, it could be both of those things!) A lot of people still don't really get what it is, and Media Molecule is a relatively young company, so they don't have the following that say Naughty Dog or Rockstar has, as they only have 1 AAA series to their name at the moment (though, considering they are one of the pioneers of the modern sandbox genre, I honestly feel they deserve as much popularity as the Minecraft series). The Last of Us 2 is guaranteed to sell just because it has Naughty Dog developing it, whereas Dreams may need some extra marketing support from Sony to get any decent numbers.

Also, I think if they can push Dreams outside of the PS4, (meaning you could use the platform as a legitimate game creation tool) that would be a pretty big selling point both in the short and long-term.

jwwphotos
12-06-2016, 11:37 PM
I'm not sure if Dreams will end up being a raw game creation tool or not. Plus I think Sony likes selling their consoles. ;)

Devious_Oatmeal
12-07-2016, 12:57 AM
I'm not sure if Dreams will end up being a raw game creation tool or not. Plus I think Sony likes selling their consoles. ;)

If they made it to where Dreams could only 'publish Dreams indies' onto the Playstation Market, then it would most certainly get them to sell more consoles. Not like, a sudden rush of buyers, but it will help sales. That's what I meant about it being interesting to see if they did something like that. Or, they may do some sort of hybrid, where you can either pay for the levels/games outside of Playstation for a price, or get a Playstation 4 and buy Dreams to play the games for free.

jwwphotos
12-07-2016, 01:28 AM
If they made it to where Dreams could only 'publish Dreams indies' onto the Playstation Market, then it would most certainly get them to sell more consoles. Not like, a sudden rush of buyers, but it will help sales. That's what I meant about it being interesting to see if they did something like that. Or, they may do some sort of hybrid, where you can either pay for the levels/games outside of Playstation for a price, or get a Playstation 4 and buy Dreams to play the games for free.

Hmm... yeah interesting idea! ...but I have a feeling they will go the route of LBP. Just an engine for itself so to speak.

Lord-Dreamerz
12-07-2016, 03:36 AM
Hmm... yeah interesting idea! ...but I have a feeling they will go the route of LBP. Just an engine for itself so to speak.

I think I already discussed my thoughts on that more then enough. But to go at it once again a bit, personally I'm hoping MM gets to do what they said what they have planned for Dreams with it being a media creation engine kinda like if you combined Unreal Engine & a 3D modelling program together but made it more fun and that we'll be able to sell our games separately from Dreams only using Dreams as a creation engine. On the Dreams servers all games made there will be free however.

Anyways while it's possible Sony may tell MM no to that ideas MM were thinking of... regardless I'm putting in a bit of faith MM will get to do it in the end... Dreams is suppose to be a real evolution from LBP, and you can't really do that without allowing creators to have better ownership/control over their creations... because without that it'd just be a fully 3D LBP without sackpeople and a bigger focus on using the Move more or less I say.

comishguy67
12-07-2016, 03:44 AM
Hmm... yeah interesting idea! ...but I have a feeling they will go the route of LBP. Just an engine for itself so to speak.

They've already talked about being able to "export" the things you make in Dreams into Unity in a few of their live streams. Though they might've only meant the artwork you make in the game, I can only imagine them expanding on that going forward. I don't think Sony would have a problem with a PC port if they were to go that route, especially considering how easy it might be, given the PS4's PC architecture. It would expand the market for the game and open the doors for more creators to join. I personallly think it will increase its console sales.

It may be wishful thinking, but honestly, I can't think of a more perfect game to pioneer this sort of thing, including publishing games into the Playstation store, as suggested by Devious_Oatmeal. It could set a precedent for future console sandbox games.

Somebody has to do it,why not them? ;)

Edit: For some reason, my spacebar stopped working in the middle of writing this. lol

mdkd99
12-07-2016, 05:33 AM
That sounds interesting.

And if Sony thinks, that is OK, than it could be really cool. A PC port for the 'masterrace' people. :D

Rabid-Coot
12-07-2016, 12:46 PM
Right now it feels like they've nailed tne asset part of create anything with the sculpting tool but the game side is probably going be challenging. For the end user to be able to create anything they need to build a system that could take those assets and make any genre you can think of. This could potentially be Devkit the game, great for the creative types but a hard sell for players. The typical creative game is tied to a genre, if you like X our X lets you build your own. When it gets to the point where Dreams marketing is ramping up there will be a need to showcase competent dreams productions across multiple genre's and demonstrate the ease of production. Its not impossible but it will be one of the more difficult sales pitches.

mdkd99
12-07-2016, 10:25 PM
Could be, but LBP has shown, what players can do.

Titanic, Little Dead Space, see you tomorrow, ninja cat and so on. They will see what's possible and they will try too.

Lord-Dreamerz
12-08-2016, 05:18 AM
You can't really use a different game as a example of what another game can do to common people. Dreams won't be able to use LBP to back it's existence very much.

mdkd99
12-08-2016, 06:09 AM
I think I can compare LBP with Dreams. They are not the same, but similiar. You can create things in these games. LBP has tight limits, and Dreams doesn't seem to have tight limits. But they are games, where you can create your own stuff.

Lord-Dreamerz
12-08-2016, 09:52 AM
I think I can compare LBP with Dreams. They are not the same, but similiar. You can create things in these games. LBP has tight limits, and Dreams doesn't seem to have tight limits. But they are games, where you can create your own stuff.

But you are already a LBP fan... you can't use yourself as a example of how other people will understand things, because A fan already understands similar concepts they are a fan of. Just like how I understand the appeal of a card game because I've been into Yugioh for a long time, however people who have not played those types of card games before... won't understand the appeal.

I've seen many people who already complained how LBP doesn't focus enough on the gameplay in their opinions and they also think the creation side of LBP is to to extremely hard for them. When you consider how Dreams will be even worse in that regard because it has a even bigger focus on creating things from the ground up. Dreams will be a very hard sell... but if Sony or whoever are smart enough they maybe can pull it off right.

mdkd99
12-08-2016, 01:11 PM
At that point you are right.

Devious_Oatmeal
12-08-2016, 02:35 PM
Right now it feels like they've nailed tne asset part of create anything with the sculpting tool but the game side is probably going be challenging. For the end user to be able to create anything they need to build a system that could take those assets and make any genre you can think of. This could potentially be Devkit the game, great for the creative types but a hard sell for players. The typical creative game is tied to a genre, if you like X our X lets you build your own. When it gets to the point where Dreams marketing is ramping up there will be a need to showcase competent dreams productions across multiple genre's and demonstrate the ease of production. Its not impossible but it will be one of the more difficult sales pitches.

I would have to guess that they will do what they did for LBP. There may be a BETA for the community to create levels and show how the community can make stuff, and they will make their own levels from the game-dev side.

But man... I am very curious as to how they will market this. Just from looking at the initial teaser with the guy playing the piano, and other videos of them making stuff, they didn't focus on a story or even hint at one. It all looks like stuff you would see if someone was trying to sell an actual Dev-Tool. Granted, a limited one that can be used to make bigger things, but it seems like their focus is to make smaller things that can make bigger things, with an emphasis on players creating together.

The fun may just be in the actual creating of dreams; be them games, pictures, movies, rooms, music, whathaveyou. For example, in things like Minecraft, people have made roller coasters, mini-games, places to explore, stories, simple villages, complex castles and homes. And then you have the people that play those to see what others have made.

Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I am sure that it being exclusive to the PS4 will be its biggest pitfall.

mdkd99
12-09-2016, 09:51 AM
The PS4 community is big. And PC is even bigger. But I don't think Dreams will come to PC.

I hope, Dreams will be less limited than LBP is.