Mm censorship of qbert333's petition to make the glitch dlc

hi :) didn't really wish to post here again but felt it was necessary . qbert333 published a level which was a petition to make the '3d 50 layer glitch' a workable tool & paid for downloadable content. it reached page 3 of cool levels with considerable backing. 10 % of plays asked for their name to be added to this list which he worked hard to do. considering most people played the level a second time to see their name it is probably 20% . over 7 days on cool pages i estimate 15,000 potential names. His level was taken down, deleted, gone. He is carrying on again but i ask, is this silencing fair ??? really ? it seems like yet another public relations blunder by Mm to me. anyway, go & copy his level & show Mm we are willing to pay for a workable tailored version of this truly fantastic glitch. btw, this thread is not for opinions on the glitch but on unreasonable censorship . thankyou

oh, one last thing. before any bright spark says that is 80% against the glitch being dlc it obviously isn't .The majority are unaware of it & those who don't want it feel strongly enough to say so. from the comments on his level before deletion this seemed to be around 1 against to every 25 people for the proposal.

Sorry, but 50 layers is going too far. I'd say like 7 thick layers is enough.

Please just leave Mm be! Whatever they are doing i'm sure its for the best. All this 'commotion' is starting to make me wish the glitch was never found in the first place.

Was there anything offensive in the level? Its possible it just got modded by people, OR people had it modded anyway because they didn't like it. Not everyone uses the good grief buton as they should =/ you don't know MM was necessarily responsible for those reasons.

also, seriously, why is there a petition in the first place? MM is going to make their own decision about this glitch, and how it affects the game etc, a petition isn't going to change a thing if they realize it needs to be patched.

That petition is the worse thing you can do about the glitch guys.
MM knows well what they had to do with their game since they know the code, censorship or not.

I think MM know that we love to have glitches to exploit the fact is they have a job of fixing anything that isn't meant to be in the game.

As it was the layer glitch was used in the vast majority of cases to get cheap hearts by showing it off to those who aren't forum goers/ people who don't know about the glitch.

So it should be removed and then MM decide if they want to dramatically change the image of their game.

In my opinion, make it about 20 layers tops and save it for lbp 2. That 50th layer was so stupid to try and manipulate.

yes, i see your points about 'the glitch' i do. And yes 50 is maybe wayyy too many ( it is currently a 100 layer glitch' ) this amount of layers is easily argued to be game breaking. just 3 layers front & or back etc or whatever mm think benefits the game and the players experience . BUT. it feels like we have woken up from the 'MATRIX' and seen what is possible for Mm to want to put us all back to sleep. The majority do want it so lets not keep going over that as it diverts a real solution . maybe not even layers but just objects to enhance the immersion of the experience ? anyway, not cool to silence a major section of the paying lbp community because they hadn't 'officially' made a statement earlier. anyway lol, you all know i have a bee in my bonnet, one day i'll give up don't worry :)

I'm not totally sure the Matrix is a good analogy... yes, MM has built a very nice game with a great level-building system. But..... no matter how empowered we may feel, it's still MM's game. They know what they want it to be, and they know how they want people to perceive it. And it's their right to do that. We get to "play" their game.

One of the key goals they have been trying to achieve is "simplicity" - a complex creation system that appears simple to all ages. They may feel this many layers goes directly against this goal, and therefore (whether right or wrong) want to protect the integrity of the game.

Most other glitches have simply been simple visual glitches..... this one is a bit different because it has the potential to make level building and managing of layers much more difficult.

Making a petition level is basically just spamming. They don't tolerate petitions on the official forums so I can see why it would be taken down. Having the level there with people signing it is not going to influence Mm's opinion on whether or not they're going to put it in the game or not.

If they've taken it down, it's for a reason, so him putting another one back up, and you asking for everyone to copy it and do the same seems a little ridiculous to me. What's the point? You've already experienced Mm's opinion on the matter, and that's obviously that they don't like what he's done. So I don't see any reason to disregard their wishes and carry on making more. They've always done what is best for the game, and I trust they will continue to do so.

I entirely agree on your points of keeping it as simple as possible as that is exactly what i am proposing they do with it. there is a learning curve to any game & it seems time our little planet got bigger. It isn't required everybody uses it , the game is suited to all levels of aptitude & this would keep people interested who have competence & a bigger vision. off topic a bit but those who want it to go because of the flood of highly rated poor glitch levels need to forward think a bit. ANYTHING can have a 'trend' like M Jackson or falling bombs or challenge levels . it will calm down. don't be frightened of change. look at what the possibilities truly are , for 1 minute ,please

the 'point' as i see it is to reasure mm enough people want it & will pay for it that they see it as a strong way to go forward & benefit the company's cash flow with little risk as this normally this isn't the case . direct feedback from paying customers . & sorry but it is our game. We bought it, we carry on buying it, we create the content , we monitor & comment on it as they have let it go. it is your game, & my game, not their game. sorry.

I have no idea how they could make 5-50 thick layers work smoothly and look nice.

The 3(7) layers, to me, is one of the fundamentals in LBP.

The glitch is exactly what its called, a glitch. Get rid of it and move on!

ok 'jakpe' , we won't put your name down for lbp 2 then. which will obviously be bigger & better , & the controversy over this is probably because this was Mm's main WOW factor for the second game they are working on. i know this is a fan boy site for mm but please ???? is anyone capable of independent thought here ?? gees!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by J-Bear

it is your game, & my game, not their game. sorry.

---

Well then, I'm off to make a petition level stating that MM should stop interfering with my game and stop interfering with their expansions and patches and bug fixes, darn and blast it :rolleyes:

You think you've made a few levels and now it's yours. Honestly? Mark Healey and Dave Smith have devoted themselves to this for 4 years. It is very much their game, their vision and their baby. I will accept any route they decide to take with it, I honestly will, even if it is something I don't like or won't want to use. I would never be as arrogant as to demand anything from them - and I'm one of the most arrogant people I know!



I have said it a thousand times, we are absolutely spoiled rotten with this game... None of us have plumbed the depths of what can be achieved in create mode with what we already have. NONE of us. Add to that the simple fact that most people can't design gameplay around 3 layers for ****. Most people won't be able to use 4 or 5 either. The possibilities are marginal.

Meh.

Quote:

---

is anyone capable of independent thought here ?? gees!

---

Is independent thought when we just agree with you? :rolleyes: You do make me chuckle sometimes :)

It's actualy 130 layer glitch.

I agree with everyone else. This glitch could potentially break the game, or lead to many more bad glitches. Mm can't just ignore it and say "That's part of the game!". I doubt they'll keep it, but I don't really care about it. It really adds almost nothing to the gameplay.

2 things wrong here. One from people and one from Media Molecule:


People's wrong:
Leave it be. Media Molecule knows about the glitch so stop being so anal about it. It's their games, they know what they have to do. They know if they can and if they want to make a feature out of it. Leave it be.

Media Molecule's wrong:
TALK TO YOUR COMMUNITY. They should have had a little press conference about the glitch and call it a day. If MM was clear about this glitch, people wouldn't go crazy this much about the glitch.

.

This game was built and designed for THREE Thick Layers and FOUR Thin Layers. Media Molecule shouldn't be petitioned into keeping a "glitch," a freak mis-script, a bug in a complicated system, an ERROR in a web of code. The game is [almost] perfect the way it is. You have seven layers to work with, plenty for the average creator. This 50-layer glitch should be patched and sent packing into the bug heap, along with the rest of the people who try to go against the right judgement from Media Molecule.

meh, i think the layers we have no are exactly good. It really doesn't play good with all these extra layers.

I don't like this glitch at all <_>

yeah i have to agree with rtm

how can you like the game but not like the people that made it? to me your acting like mm are the villains here, taking away our hard earned tools, its a glitch, an accident, its not supposed to be in the game so theyll take it out. Will they implement it later on? who knows? im personally a fan of glitches but demanding them from the creators is not the way to do things

Hmmmm... but on the other hand... if someone can come up with a 50000 layer glitch and a way to move sackboy freely in and out of them, imagine the possibilities!

That can't POSSIBLY be problematic....

and yes... it is THEIR game, not ours - we paid for the right to USE it, not to OWN it - they pay the programmers, they design it, they own the patents and the copyrights. So, it's their right to take the development in any direction they see fit.

In the same way I take the internationally sold software I design in any direction I see fit - my customers suggest, I listen, and I decide what is best for the software (hopefully keeping my customers in mind)

You rarely make me chuckle. This is no ordinary game, the mm levels are to create an example of what can be done & u have to see that to get the items. it had to have an example you had to follow to be able to flourish is all. Just as this is their baby they dont 'own' the baby, it is free to be its own thing. i have paid 50 notes & more and my creations vanish everyday ( before this glitch btw ) . i don't own it cos i made a level . ?? everybody owns it because they did & paid for Mm to still be in existance as a company in a recession !!!

?
ppl didnt pay money to keep mm from going bankrupt if thats what you mean, at least i didnt, i payed money to buy a game, their game. You pay money, you get game, they dont owe you anything beyond that. The only thing anyone here owns is the game not the right to force desicions on the company that made it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by J-Bear

Just as this is their baby they dont 'own' the baby, it is free to be its own thing.

---

Exactly. so leave it alone. What you don't seem to understand is that you're trying to influence the game as well. Fact is, it isn't going to work.

Continuing with the baby analogy, if theres something wrong with it, aren't you going to have a doctor look at it, and possibly fix whats wrong? Thats what MM is doing, they're protecting their child from going kablooie by acting the part of the doctor. They are the people who know the most about this game, they spent years creating it and studying its code (or anatomy). If this "baby" grows a tumor, and 50 billion people say that it should be kept because it looks cool, its still going to be removed because its harming the baby.

This isn't about the glitch itself, its about the possible implications the glitch may have on the well being of the game.

And if you think you own the game, you should probably read the Terms of Service more closely... i'm sure theres something related to that in there. (not that i read it either XD)

nope, as Ccubbage says, you own the right to use the game. You own a little bit of IP rights to your creations, but they are derived works anyway so that gets a little complicated and way beyond the scope of this discussion. But you REALLY don't own the game.

In fact Sony own the game, but thats a little technicality due to laws and contracts and suchlike, but we wouldn't want those to be influential now would we :p


I don't think this is an issue where the community should be having a "toys out of the pram" moment, it's embarrasing.

Wow... this is just like real-life politics. Two sides wage war on eachother, each with their own opinons and thoughts on the matter, with some random guest speakers thrown in, and in the end, nothing get's done. This is the same situation we're finding ourselves in now. We argue on the matter, yet no-one does something about it.

Except for Media Molecule. They try to fix a problem that can destroy LBP (just like the Xbox's RROD), but then the public riticules them and flames them for doing so (just like Jesus and Gandhi). Maybe that's why it's still not fixed.

Because everytime someone steps up to fix something, they get flamed and abused... or worse.

Not true. The whole success of this financial venture from the company relied ENTIRELY on us creating the content from their tools. ENTIRELY !! if we put millions of hours in to creating their wealth they should listen & respond to the hundreds of thousands of paying customers that know nothing of lbp central . **** u r a hardcore bunch:(

I feel like this is making a scene and not conducive to it's own cause... any chance we had of actually getting this as a feature, or even as an untouched glitch left to it's own devices, has probably gone out the window.

I'm sure the overwhelming majority of people joining in on the hysterics probably have no real vested interest in the situation, and just enjoy getting swept up in a mob regardless of what it's about or wether it really matters to them.

I also feel that such a production is yet another waste of space on an already cluttered server, no different than your Official MM Statement level garnering thousands of plays based purely on capitalizing on the allure of hyperbole in this situation. There's so many amazing levels being released right now, and it's almost infuriating that this is one of the things they have to compete with on top of dealing with spammers, H4H'rs, copycats, and the like... several thousand mindless sods flooding the server with copies of the same pointless level is the last thing we need.

It will also be terrible if this sets an example for others to follow. Anything that somebody might see as an outrage will suddenly require an obligatory boycott/petition level campaign.

PLEASE . it would be helpful if people read the whole thread before posting. yes a glitch is destructive ! yes we don't want it ! if anyone happens upon this thread who isn't in love with anything Media Molecule do or say, please post & help my sanity ! lol , as for the rest of you regulars, you know i love you right ? :)

I did read the whole thing. That's my take on wether or not trying to stem something like this with censorship is something I approve of.

NINJAMIC !! CAPITALISING ?? CAPITALISING ?!? if only you had any idea instead of guessing what went on there. but you don't , so .... grrrr

capitalising isn't even a word i can find easily in my spell check !the fact you thought of it says more about you 'NINJA'. i'm not some kid that 'NEEDS' plays or hearts ! man . i want to make cool levels people enjoy & my whole point from the beginning of this 3 weeks ago was ....... i want everybody to have the same opportunity !! i will tell everybody how to edit & republish if this judging of my personal character does not abate .

Lesson to everyone: Don't question Ninja on the English language lol. You are in for a world of hurt if you do...

And update your spell check

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/capitalize
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/capitalize

lol , we all like a bit of comedy to lighten the mood :) but seriously , i've been thinking of putting a level on page 1 telling every paying player how its done. & don't underestimate the impact this would have. or how quickly i can get there . 24 hours would get me to page 2 with even 2 stars. i have been thinking of all those poor people that dont know what we know & well, you have prooved you're not a worthy bunch. expect changes in september , u've irritated me enough !!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by J-Bear

capitalising isn't even a word i can find easily in my spell check !the fact you thought of it says more about you 'NINJA'. i'm not some kid that 'NEEDS' plays or hearts ! man . i want to make cool levels people enjoy & my whole point from the beginning of this 3 weeks ago was ....... i want everybody to have the same opportunity !! i will tell everybody how to edit & republish if this judging of my personal character does not abate .

---

I understand, but you've shown yourself to be very prone to blow things out of proportion and react very rashly with little to no solid information to go off of.

You have to realize that all this stuff does is detract from what we all play the game for... good levels from all over the world, including yours and mine. I can assure you that if there is no problems with this glitch, that interfere with the game's stability in any tangible way, it will be left alone.

This is not the way.

In fact... the only thing it's probably accomplished is taking something that's free if it's stable and can be left as is, and turning it into something that will most assuredly cost money... because if the glitch doesn't work, then an add on feature won't work either. If it does, then it already did.

Also, no one cares. I've told every single person I know how to get more plays through republishing, and I haven't seen a new level in a loooong time that doesn't have a hundred or so republishes in it's comments section. It would also benefit good creators who don't know these tricks, and the playing field would be as level as it was to begin with. Nothing would change.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NinjaMicWZ

I haven't seen a new level in a loooong time that doesn't have a hundred or so republishes in it's comments section.

---

Check mine out then... :P I don't use it :)

to clarify ' how its done' . Not the glitch, how to get your levels to page 1. the ' biggy' nobody really talks about. the cause of distress for thousands whilst you enjoy your moment of fame. yes, i'm going to change your comfort zone. why you ask ? for being subjective unreasonable Mm fanboys . WELL DONE :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by J-Bear

to clarify ' how its done' . Not the glitch, how to get your levels to page 1. the ' biggy' nobody really talks about. the cause of distress for thousands whilst you enjoy your moment of fame. yes, i'm going to change your comfort zone. why you ask ? for being subjective unreasonable Mm fanboys . WELL DONE :)

---

Just because we don't agree with you doesn't make us 'fanboys'. It means we have a different opinion. We can understand the reasons Mm took down the level. It was just the wrong way to go about trying to keep it. When it comes down to it, Mm will do what they like. No matter what you think, it really is THEIR game. Not yours. Not mine. Not anyone else's. I've put so many hours into this game it is unreal. I've put my heart and soul into my levels and I am so proud of them, but it is irrelevant, that doesn't mean they owe me anything. It's still Mm's game.

I'm sorry mate, but you call us subjective, because we don't agree with you.

Where is your objectivity? Is it because thousands of people agree with you? OK, I'll take that.

But you also critisise us for not having independant thought, when you are just agreeing with the masses.


Bottom line: if you are going to post your opinion on a public forum, expect others to disagree with you, because they simply do not have the same opinion. Don't tell them they are wrong or attempt to insult them for disagreeing with you. Get over yourself, your opinion is no more valid than anyone else's.