LBP PSP, refreshing in comparison to PS3?

I don't think there will be many creators here that will be able to relate to this but I have found creating on the PSP quite refreshing in comparison to the PS3.

Now obviously this isn't in terms of the creating experience as there's no doubt the bugs keep you from anywhere being relaxed... :P

But in terms of what is possible and what you have to do to create a 'great' level, it is quite refreshing!

I suppose this is related to a thread that was made in the LBP section a while ago about how it now takes so much more to 'wow' people than it used to. I think this is why I'm having more fun on the PSP because that state of 'wow' and 'greatness' is still quite low as the game is in its infancy.

On the PS3, it's got to the stage for me where I have to do something truly mould breaking or ridiculously cool to get the same response as I did for my earlier levels, which can obviously be tiresome and often requires quite a bit of tedious creating. With the PSP I can still just create simple cool mechanics that let the player have fun...and that is the primary aim, having fun!

The general mindset of the PS3 player has changed a great deal since the start. 'Fun' alone isn't enough anymore, it takes something extra. This was pretty much the conclusion of the other thread, that not everything has to be mould breakingly innovative, it just has to be fun, as that's what LBP is about.

Anyway, probably digressed slightly, my point being that creating on the PSP has left all this behind and took all the pressure off I guess. It's also a totally different community, so you get a totally different experience through them, which is also a refreshing change!

I'm not sure if any creators here can relate to this at all but just thought I'd start a thread as there isn't many discussion type ones around :)

Note: A few may think that this sounds like I'm creating for the wrong reasons, however I'm not one for thinking that 'you should create for yourself and no one else'. Aiming at a particular audience and trying to achieve a specific goal is part of the fun for me! :)

I can definitely see where you're coming from here. Expectations are lower and there's less competition, so it's easier to get your level noticed. I also like having all new materials and such, I think they really add to the fresh feeling.

I don't know if the community is really that different, but I'm trying to find out with that poll I started. Also, right now create mode and the publishing quirks seem a bit daunting for many. Of course, you might see that as a good thing, as it will keep the PSP version in its infancy for longer. :p

On a somewhat unrelated note: while I gather some people complain about your levels being similar, like you say, the main point is that it should be fun. I (and many others, I'm sure) would still jump on anything you'd create for the PS3 version, especially something like Industrial Assistance. So uhm... feel free. :)

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Originally Posted by Rogar

I can definitely see where you're coming from here. Expectations are lower and there's less competition, so it's easier to get your level noticed. I also like having all new materials and such, I think they really add to the fresh feeling.

I don't know if the community is really that different, but I'm trying to find out with that poll I started. Also, right now create mode and the publishing quirks seem a bit daunting for many. Of course, you might see that as a good thing, as it will keep the PSP version in its infancy for longer. :p

On a somewhat unrelated note: while I gather some people complain about your levels being similar, like you say, the main point is that it should be fun. I (and many others, I'm sure) would still jump on anything you'd create for the PS3 version, especially something like Industrial Assistance. So uhm... feel free. :)

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I don't necessarily think it's about having less competition and it being easier to get noticed, those are things that really don't concern me personally. There is no such thing as competition in LBP for me, only fellow creators. When you play a great level you don't think 'daaamn this is better than my stuff', you think 'woah this is awesome, I love it'.

I think lower expectations and pressure are a part of it. But I think that is more in line with the community than myself. It hasn't truly taken off yet and there are only a handful of great levels. On the PS3 there's thousands of amazing levels, there's an element of greed and selfishness within the community now where everyone expects more and more. When in reality, within many genres and styles a plateau has been hit that cannot be beaten, so all you can do as a creator is move left or right, or create something equally as fun!

I think that's why the PSP is so much, it hasn't developed yet and that plateau is a long way off, which keeps you engaged as creator and it feels like you're actually making something worthwhile that will benefit everyone.

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Originally Posted by jackofcourse

I don't necessarily think it's about having less competition and it being easier to get noticed, those are things that really don't concern me personally. There is no such thing as competition in LBP for me, only fellow creators. When you play a great level you don't think 'daaamn this is better than my stuff', you think 'woah this is awesome, I love it'.

I think lower expectations and pressure are a part of it. But I think that is more in line with the community than myself. It hasn't truly taken off yet and there are only a handful of great levels. On the PS3 there's thousands of amazing levels, there's an element of greed and selfishness within the community now where everyone expects more and more. When in reality, within many genres and styles a plateau has been hit that cannot be beaten, so all you can do as a creator is move left or right, or create something equally as fun!

I think that's why the PSP is so much, it hasn't developed yet and that plateau is a long way off, which keeps you engaged as creator and it feels like you're actually making something worthwhile that will benefit everyone.

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yea exactly what i was thinking, level making is all about getting some level lovers and getting an audience that will play every level that you make or have made.

But that's what I meant by competition. It's not about whose level is better, but you are vying for the same audience, and on the PS3 it's much tougher because there are more creators, more great levels.

Great thread Jack - I can most definitely relate. In fact, in reading your post I was surprised how similar my mindset is to yours with regards to LBP PSP. I already posted a reply in Rogar's poll thread, so I'll do my best to keep from repeating myself in my posts. :p

Creating on the PS3 version is really quite a huge undertaking. Like you said, it's not competitive or a popularity contest or any of those things, yet as a creator I do feel a lot of pressure to "keep up" with the going trends. The layer glitch, for example, has really daunted me. It's this whole huge world of complexity and user un-friendlyness that I know nothing about and honestly can't be bothered to experiment with. (With my luck it'd get patched just as I was finishing off my first layer glitched level.) I'd much rather just enjoy everbody else's incredible efforts and stick to what I know in my own creations.

What I used to think was cool is nowhere near cutting edge any more, and while my earlier PS3 levels are still good in their own right they just cannot compare to what's being published these days. As a player, this is an incredibly exciting time because of all the amazing free content that's out there to explore and enjoy. As a creator, I feel that the mountain I need to climb keeps getting taller, making it that much harder to get started on the journey. So it's not a competition that I feel I'm having to keep up with, it's just the fact that I don't want to disappoint the community as a whole. I don't really feel the need to be the best/biggest/wowest but just to do something a little different than anybody else has done before. I enjoy creating and I want people to enjoy playing what I create, but that task is larger every time I start a new level.

It is for these reasons, as well as those you mentioned in your post that I'm enjoying creating on the PSP so much. Yes, it's buggy and limited and annoying to deal with sometimes, but I'm really having a great time. All the pressure of creating crazy lighting effects, wacky layer glitches, and incredibly long and epic levels is gone. Just come up with a few solid ideas, start creating, and do your best to cram it all into the space you have. It's like writing a comic strip versus trying to illustrate an entire graphic novel. Sure, the job is essentially the same but you get a sense of accomplishment much more quickly on the PSP. You also very accurately point out that we are nowhere near the plateau on the PSP, so it feels good to help raise the bar with each creation.

Creating on the PSP has also helped me grow as a creator. I rely heavily on logic in my PS3 levels, and the simplicity of the PSP has forced me to concentrate more on gameplay and less on fancy-schmancy offscreen mechanics. Part of the reason I've started using stickers so much is because it's one of the things that works extremely well on the PSP. I added humor because I figured I had to spice up the mix one way or another, and before you know it I ended up defining a style I didn't think I had. As a totally unexpected bonus, apparently everybody likes this odd combination I came up with. Who knew? I'm thrilled everyone is enjoying my levels, but more importantly I think people are being inspired. This is great for the LBP PSP community as a whole, and I couldn't be happier for it because it means there will be more and more excellent levels to play in the near future.

So yeah, I find creating on the PSP very refreshing indeed. It's stressful, labor-intensive, and riddled with more bugs than my local landfill... and I totally love it.

The psp version is gorgeous and refreshing no doubt. I'm miles behind (anyone know how to cut a circle out from a circle anyone?) but eventually successfully creating an object no matter how simplistic, and having it working is hugely satisfying.

Take a circle, use the corner editor to add a new corner, drag that into the circle and add some more corners there to create enough room for a circle. Create a circle in the opening, then using the corner editor, shape the hole of the outer circle neatly around the inner circle. Finally, delete the inner circle.

Taffey's score board method, adapted to circles. :)

This is an awesome thread Jack, probably one of my favorite because I can relate so much to it. When I started working with the PSP, I didn't have the choice to go back to the PS3 because I don't have one while I am in China. Because of this, I just had to put up with all of the issues with Create Mode. In all honesty, I may have just given up on the PSP if I could have gone back to the PS3 when I had to restart my first level after spending around 10 hours on it.

Now looking back, I am so happy that I went through with it and made my first level. Just like you said, there is just something so fresh about it. The PSP offers so many new challenges, and because of this, when a level is finish it really shines if it works. I actually feel like I accomplished something huge now that I have made two levels on PSP, and even though it took me months to make my LBL levels on PS3, I don't feel like there were the giant hurdles that the PSP has, it just took time because the levels were intricate and mechanical.

I'm not sure if this is exactly the point that you are getting at, but the beauty of PSP is sort of in the challenge of building with it. There is a huge amount of pride in finishing a functional level that people actually like.

One other point is that I love the smaller community. While you and I (Jack) have had conversations and arguments ever since you were advertising Flaming Timberland and before I had even published my first LBL level, I have never really had the opportunity to chat back and forth with you and exchange feedback on levels. Now that we are both ingrained in the smaller PSP community, I think it gives us a lot more opportunity to focus on the levels on the forums since there are not 20 levels posted every day. I doubt I would have ever gotten to chat with you (Jack), Taffey, Jeff, Lleonard, and all you other awesome members of the community if I was still into the PS3 side, because I would have just been too busy trying to keep up with the massive number of levels coming in on a daily basis. But since we are now part of a much smaller community, we can grow this community together and actually have the opportunity to focus more on eachother and help eachother out instead of spreading ourselves so thin between the hundreds of thousands of levels on PS3

Thanks for the great post Jack!

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Originally Posted by amazingflyingpoo

all you other awesome members of the community

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Hey thats me :D

I dont know the PS3 community. But i can imagine that it can be difficult when the amount of levels increase over a certain number. I think this community here is great like this. Its fun to get better and better and to share tipps and different methods of creating.

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Originally Posted by jackofcourse

On the PS3, it's got to the stage for me where I have to do something truly mould breaking or ridiculously cool to get the same response as I did for my earlier levels, which can obviously be tiresome and often requires quite a bit of tedious creating. With the PSP I can still just create simple cool mechanics that let the player have fun...and that is the primary aim, having fun!
The general mindset of the PS3 player has changed a great deal since the start. 'Fun' alone isn't enough anymore, it takes something extra. This was pretty much the conclusion of the other thread, that not everything has to be mould breakingly innovative, it just has to be fun, as that's what LBP is about.

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Regarding the general question of the OP,I don't think you need to be familiar with PSP version to understand your sentiment,lol.

However, a year on, I don't think the perception of a what makes a level 'fun' has changed that much actually. You can play a level that was highly regarded many months ago, and the aesthetics and tech might be a bit dated, but the basics still remain satisfying. If you published Timberland 2 tomorrow, i think you'd still get players raving about it, despite the fact there's no cinematics, layer glitches, yadda yadda yadda. I replayed it recently and its still awesome....

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Originally Posted by Arrestor

Hey thats me :D

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LOL, yeah, I realized after I started writing that that I probably shouldn't include names because I would either have to list 20 or more names, or I would end up leaving a lot out. I decided to still just name a few and hope I didn't hurt anyone. And heck yes you are an awesome member of the community Arrestor, you are one of the best with feedback and you are an awesome author (Dream or Reality? Page 2 :) )

Oh you hurt my feelings that much... i hate you now!

No i dont! :D

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Originally Posted by amazingflyingpoo

I doubt I would have ever gotten to chat with you (Jack), Taffey, Jeff, Lleonard, and all you other awesome members of the community if I was still into the PS3 side, because I would have just been too busy trying to keep up with the massive number of levels coming in on a daily basis. But since we are now part of a much smaller community, we can grow this community together and actually have the opportunity to focus more on eachother and help eachother out instead of spreading ourselves so thin between the hundreds of thousands of levels on PS3

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This is a very good point and something I never really thought about... but you're absolutely right. The LBP PSP community is fantastic and it's great to be part of it!

I agree

As a creator i am now caught in a vicious cycle. It takes me a great deal of time to make a polished level, so long that the earlier parts of my level become outdated and i continually redo it to keep up with the standard. This is why i still want a sequel to lbp ps3 even though its been said its not needed due to unlimited levels and updates. I want to be able to go back to the roots.

when creatin in ps3 s like more easy and relaxing but on psp i kina stressin but i like a lo because of the new materials, sounds and music also as u said a different comunity

Hmmm, good point. Especially the music is very refreshing. I feel the music overal is better than the PS3 music, but it's difficult to say whether that's because it is newer or not.

I can't believe people are still trying to make psp levels. The creating on the psp is just so horrendous. Absolutely nothing works on my version. And yes i checked online for the latest version and it says I have it even though it's the same version I've had from day one.

It's soooooo baaaaaadd I haven't even touched it since the first week of release. And it's way too small anyway even if it worked properly. I honestly cannot see the point in the psp version at all. It's useless.

@mistervista : Not only are people still trying to make levels, they've actually succeeded in making more than a few great levels already. I think JKThree has most of them recorded on his youtube channel.

That being said, the bugs and limitations *are* annoying, but I guess we're all just a little crazy for putting up with it and still making great stuff. :p

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Originally Posted by mistervista

It's soooooo baaaaaadd I haven't even touched it since the first week of release. And it's way too small anyway even if it worked properly. I honestly cannot see the point in the psp version at all. It's useless.

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Looking at some of the levels that have been published says otherwise ;)