You forgot in the defenders part, camp in bushes all day long ;)
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You forgot in the defenders part, camp in bushes all day long ;)
Oh how I laughed.Quote:
Originally Posted by xero
I play ArmA and Red Orchestra, BF is hilariously un-realistic. Maybe compared to CoD it is realistic, and I'm not saying a lack of realism is a bad thing, but seriously?
I don't care if it's a valid tactic - with maps as big as they will be in the full version, having snipers with the ability to lie in a bush all game will be infuriating and stupid. BF2 was different - BF3 is nothing like it. It was also PC exclusive, which has a different type of player base, some of whom actually play properly.
I admit there have been times on BC1/BC2 that I have wanted prone, but it's so much better without it because you can't just lie in bushes on the edge of the maps. It's completely unnescessary.
Edit: I hate the fact they show your K/D ratio as well. This isn't CoD, and K/D is irrelevant. I don't care how many times I die if we win (though obviously I'm not stupid - I don't just run into bullets....) but there are so many people (for which I blame CoD...) who just play for stats, and now that BF is showing them there is even more reason for them to camp and get cheap kills without dying. It was much better when the way to get a good score was just to play properly and get cap points or even revives - at least that was helping the team...
What I wish is someone to take the actual underground portion of the maps and put it up here so it's not superimposed with the completely useless above-ground portion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedynutty68Spoiler - Map of Metro
Now get out there and go kick some butt! :D
Lying prone within cover is supposed to be infuriating. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex™
That's what snipers do, they take out targets from incredibly long range, and are notoriously difficult to locate.
DICE has also given some really obnoxiously obvious tools to locate and spot snipers before they even fire a shot at you. All you have to do is flank or use cover as soon as you know where the sniper is sitting. If they're laying prone, walking up to them is so ridiculously easy it's almost not funny.
Also, I agree with your feelings on K/D ratio, although it's nice to use as an analytical tool. Too much emphasis on a specific stat can shape the way a person plays, though. Because it's an open beta, you have a lot of random people running around with UMPs and just trying to blast people in the face rather than actually set off or defend the MCOM stations. "But my K/D is 3.1! Ur a N00b"
What I'd really like to see is more communication. Only about 10% of the time is someone actually talking in game, and then only half of that time are they actually talking about the game instead of chit chatting with their mom about chores or blasting some crap music through my right ear.
Yes, in real warfare snipers would be infuriating, so maybe that is accurate. They don't have entire armies made up from snipers though, which is why I think they should limit the amount of players who can play a certain class. RO allows 2 snipers per team per map, and that is 64 players online, and it works. You have the snipers there so you have to be careful, but equally there are other people around as well. If you are going to have massive open maps and unlimited snipers, you shouldn't have prone. If they were to limit the amount of specialist class players, then prone wouldn't cause the same problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by schm0
BFBC 1/2 didn't suffer for the lack of prone, and I don't think 3 would do either.
Let's just say there were many times where my only cover was a fence and that left my head peeking out. Very painful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex™
Also, the K/D ratio is kind of a standard for competitive first person shooters. There would be more complaints if it wasn't in.
That's one way to balance it, but forcing players to choose a class or restricting them from one class over another is a testy method. An army of snipers isn't going to be destroying MCOM stations very easily. Likewise, a similar group of any class would have a difficult time doing it on their own. I understand your reasoning, I just think there are strengths and weaknesses to each tactic, but it's the team that fails to exploit those weaknesses that will lose. That's why I think effective communication is the major thing missing from this beta.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex™
Also, there's a tiny bit more detail about squad management here, as well as general FAQ information:
http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3...4925962155306/
Wooohooo!Quote:
Since the Open BETA we’ve added more advanced functionality to manage your squad. You will be able to browse and join specific squads through the squad screen. You can see all players that are in a specific squad as well as who’s playing as lone wolf. As a squad leader you can set your squad to private as well as kick players from the squad.
On console you will also be able to choose if you want the active VoIP channel to be team or squad and invite friends to your squad. You will also be able to mute any player on your team through the scoreboard.
Eurgh, never have class limiting. Any server that has that I never visit it again. Just because I want to go recon doesn't mean I want to go sniper. Infact I believe every squad should have a recon player. They're a key class to moving up.
Saying that, I have been on a BC2 server which didn't limit recon users, but limited the amount of recon using snipers. I can accept that, but I still don't think it should ever be part of the vanilla game. Just a server side option.
HOORAH!Quote:
Originally Posted by schm0
Also, LOL:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6l4d...layer_embedded
Hell. No.Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateClay
That's exactly what I hate about it now. BFBC2 didn't have competition; it had teamwork. Adding that stupid K/D ratio thing is now encouraging everybody to go for kills than help the team win. I'm planting the MCOM most of the time because Retard Engi Jr. here is going berserk with the UMP. The point is BF3 is incorporating more lone-wolf features than team-based ones.
Bad Company 2 had a K-D ratio though...Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberSora
Laugh all you want--you obviously didn't read my other post succeeding that one that clearly states that they're not necessarily succeeding at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex™
It's a valid tactic, it's realistic, and it's just another option added to the game. You cannot whine and complain about more options, especially since the nice people at EA are making this game for people like you who do nothing but whine about everything. Don't like campers and snipers? Flank 'em. Slit their throats with your knife until they get the message. Don't like going prone? Make your own game without it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex™
I'm so tired of people looking the EA gift horse in the mouth and complaining so much. Remember kids, this is a beta, and does not necessarily accurately reflect the full game.
PS> Playing "properly" as you so eloquently put, is a matter of play style and adhering to the rules of the game. If you can camp a choke point for the entire match without penalty, then it is playing properly.
I play simulators like SB ProPE and DCS, ArmA 2 and RO/DH have hilariously bad vehicle modelling that you can't call realistic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex™
I don't whine and complain about everything, however when they are adding things in that will be detrimental to the gameplay, then I'm allowed to 'whine' about it. Your last point doesn't make sense either. There was a glitch in Forza 3 (for which I was on a team) where a car could be detuned to a class lower, where it would absolutley dominate. It wasn't meant to be possible, but it was - does that mean people who lapped in it to get the fastest time were playing properly?Quote:
Originally Posted by xero
Those are both vehicle specific - they require perfectly modelled vehicles. That said, Ro2 has pretty accurate tanks. That's not the point though, in terms of infantry combat, ArmA and RO are far more realistic that CoD/BF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayneh
Detrimental to gameplay is a matter of opinion, and your opinion is not an absolute truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex™
My last point makes perfect sense, you just misinterpreted its meaning. There's a huge difference between abusing an obvious glitch or bug and using a feature. Camping and prone are not glitches, they were intended to be in the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xero
And yet camping is a cheap way to play. Actually no, camping the objective as a defender is one thing, but people who camp in the middle of nowhere just to get easy kills while not caring about the objective ruin the game. I realise prone is intended to be in the game, but it gives people another way of being cheap with their camping, whereas before at least you had to be a bit more tactical about what you were doing...Quote:
Originally Posted by xero
I won't deny that prone opens new possibilities for those who would abuse it for kills, but there will always be kids who care about nothing but K/D ratio who ruin the game--it's console gaming, and unfortunately that's just how it is. However, when I'm low health and need to lay low and hide for a bit, prone is a lifesaver, literally. I'm not camping, I'm not even shooting anyone for the duration, but I'm glad that the option to lay down is there. If it wasn't, I'd probably wonder why I can't lay down and heal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex™
But so few people use it properly compared to the amount that abuse it that it becomes worse to have it than not, which is my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by xero
Maybe you just have to learn to deal with campers properly. ;) They don't bother me at all. In fact, someone who's camping is easier for me to kill, because once they've killed me once, I know exactly where they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex™
I've been playing FPS's plenty long enough to be able to deal with campers - I just don't see why they should be getting more help, especially on a game like BF. It's one thing on the small CoD maps, but on BF with massive open maps (beta excluded, lol), they could hide in so many places it's stupid... >_____>Quote:
Originally Posted by xero
But it's easy to see them now. They stick out like a sore thumb with there scope glare. Seriously, I usuaslly manage to spot the sniper campers before they get to set up there aim at me, and then just burst fire into it or get under cover. The burst fire usually messes up their vision and make them back-up, or often kill them. I haven't had many issues with campers. If they killed me and are camping in one spot, I shall flank and kill them. You'd be stupid to line yourself up in their site again and attempt to kill them. They're camping there cause they have the advantage at that point. Flanking is easier than ever with recon as well now. Radio beacon awaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!
EDIT: With all this camping talk, I think it is a valid tactic which is pretty much unavoidable in every game. Camping pretty much = defending, which one team has to do. There's no avoiding it, you have to protect 2 points so staying behind cover and waiting for the enemy is a valid tactic. If you are doing it wrong, someone [who is good] will flank and kill you.
However, you will get the idiots who will camp when attacking. That's a different story, if your staying in one spot, killing off a few enemies on a rare occasion and not helping the team in any way to attack then that isn't a good tactic and i do frown upon it. (if they're spotting, sending airstrikes [in BC2 anyway] and actually picking off useful people then maybe okay, but they better be good).
In short, Rush = campers vs attackers.
Yeah, to deal with campers that aren't sniping, all you need to do is proceed more carefully. Check your corners, stay low, stay close to your squadmates, revive them when they fall and use your mic. Think tactically, and with enough skill you can defeat any strategy another team throws at you. I'm not the greatest player, but after you've been killed 100 or so times you get to learn the "camping" spots on the maps. Then it just becomes a matter of who shoots first and most skillfully.