Make an adv mover both strength and speed scale input (bottom input)

Update for clarity:
1) Adjust acceleration
2) Scale speed based on value
3) Analog speed, to be scaled by '2'

When I write 'mover' I mean 'advanced mover'. Sorry for confusion.

I'm looking for a way to adjust the speed at the same time as the acceleration of a single mover. I want each to be freely manipulated, so I can easily change one without changing the other. I need full analog range for each, so using multiple movers is not an option (well, I don't want it to be).

This is for an launch minigame where a rocket has a variety of stats, 2 of which are speed and acceleration. The rocket is made up of several components that you can mix and match with other components. Each component has a different analog value for each stat, which is why I need full analog range. These 2 are the only ones which clash.

Example: 50% acceleration with 10 speed. Replace thrusters with 60% acc', and then add another booster, raising acc' to 65, and speed to 22...

I've only spent a few minutes working on it, but I thought that perhaps someone would have a solution by the time I returned to it, or at least something that I could work from.

Would using an anti-gravity tweaker with varying resistance work? Does it limit both acc' and speed', or just one?

Anyhow, I'll be working on it in a few hours, so perhaps I'll find a solution then.

Maybe changing the input action of the mover to strength scale and then wiring a bunch of batteries into a selector, which will be wired into an OR gate and then into the mover? Did you get that?

Make sure that that battery strength increases as it goes DOWN the selector or it wont work.

I cannot give a definitive answer but have you looked into stacking movers? IIRC, the strength (acceleration) of them stacks, so if you have two movers of 50% each, the result would be something greater than 50%. You would then activate more movers as you progress (pos sequencer with overlapping batteries, not fully analogue, I know) while each mover has its speed input wired as well.

First make sure, though, that it is indeed true that acceleration stacks.

The short time that I spent thinking about this on the bus has me liking the idea of scaling a Gravity tweaker would be the best option.

My thought process is; Dampening could be thought of as reverse acceleration so maybe your variable signal splits to speed scale on the mover and into a 100% dampening Gravity tweaker... Which is pretty much 0% acceleration. Haven't really checked if the Gravity tweaker deals with analogue though...

Also it might be better to get the inverse of the signal into it. So that 60% thrusters would only do 40% dampening.

Hmm... I'd also put the mover's acceleration to 100%

I think that I made something fall out of the sky like this, but can really remember what I did. I will have to check. I do know that I set up a sound to a sequencer and had it modify the volume as it fell so the noise of the wind builds as it falls. I may have just switched off all it's movers and let LBP physics take over.

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Originally Posted by Antikris

I cannot give a definitive answer but have you looked into stacking movers? IIRC, the strength (acceleration) of them stacks, so if you have two movers of 50% each, the result would be something greater than 50%. You would then activate more movers as you progress (pos sequencer with overlapping batteries, not fully analogue, I know) while each mover has its speed input wired as well.

First make sure, though, that it is indeed true that acceleration stacks.

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Actually, this may work, if indeed the accelerations stack. I've decided to reduce the range of values to 10 presets (1, 2, ..., 9, 10), which when added together totals 55 (leaves room for additional factors, such as other equips influencing it). If I could just turn on a mover for each preset, and use the input to scale speed, then this should work perfectly.

If not, I think I'll just make 10 different levels of acceleration and have no other factors which influence it. I'm trying to keep this as simple as possible, while using some seemingly advanced stuff.

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Originally Posted by Mr_Fusion

The short time that I typing of this I think that the idea of scaling a Gravity tweaker would be the best option.

My thought process is; Dampening could be thought of as reverse acceleration so maybe your variable signal splits to speed scale on the mover and into a 100% dampening Gravity tweaker... Which is pretty much 0% acceleration. Haven't really checked if the Gravity tweaker deals with analogue though...

Also it might be better to get the inverse of the signal into it. So that 60% thrusters would only do 40% dampening.

Hmm... I'd also put the mover's acceleration to 100%

I think that I made something fall out of the sky like this, but can really remember what I did. I will have to check. I do know that I set up a sound to a sequencer and had it modify the volume as it fell so the noise of the wind builds as it falls. I may have just switched off all it's movers and let LBP physics take over.

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I had the same thought. I never used the gravity tweaker with analog, so it seems like an option. It'd depend on how it treats acc' and speed though. I only want it to influence 1 or the other. Fairly certain it would only adjust acc, but I'll test it out next time I'm on.

why not just use an advanced mover? you can make it so only one direction is active, the direction inputs are speed scale, and you can set the bottom input to strength scale instead of on/off

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Originally Posted by evret

why not just use an advanced mover? you can make it so only one direction is active, the direction inputs are speed scale, and you can set the bottom input to strength scale instead of on/off

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Dang... I think this is once again a case of over thinking something.

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Originally Posted by evret

why not just use an advanced mover? you can make it so only one direction is active, the direction inputs are speed scale, and you can set the bottom input to strength scale instead of on/off

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Not quite. I still want to be able to scale speed with the bottom input, as well as the actual movement inputs (in this case, top).

1) Up/down for movement speed
2) Adjust acc' of that movememt
3) Scale analog input based on speed input.....? So full stick, if speed input is 25%, then limited to 25%...?

I dunno if that last one makes sense any more, since it'd require real-time division of an input.

I think I've found a solution though.... just don't make them both adjustable :p.

(Also, woops, accidentally hit post before I had written all this)

EDIT: I updated the OP to perhaps make it more clear what I want to do. Also, I meant advanced mover throughout (how else would I be able to both scale acc and movement rate).

Also, the stick is arbitrary, I have yet to decide which button is going to create the movement.

Don't think too hard about this, I'm likely going to drop having the 3 variables for movement. It'd be far too complex for what I wanted to be my 'break' away from complex logic. I think I'll just make 10 movers, each with a different speed or acceleration, and then scale the other variable as the bottom input, and retain analog input for the side and top.

The advanced mover by evret might be your salvation; flip it on a chip that you activate to enable the missile. Analog signal into the vertical movement, modifying speed. Strength scaled through an analog signal into the bottom.

And about my idea of stacking, I just realized that if you are going to stack 10 movers you might as well save yourself some time and use 10 exclusive movers that have their own strength setting.

What is (was?) the effect you are (were) going for?

edit: Nevermind, I missed a large portion of the first post while skimming through. Sorry!

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Originally Posted by Antikris

The advanced mover by evret might be your salvation; flip it on a chip that you activate to enable the missile. Analog signal into the vertical movement, modifying speed. Strength scaled through an analog signal into the bottom.

And about my idea of stacking, I just realized that if you are going to stack 10 movers you might as well save yourself some time and use 10 exclusive movers that have their own strength setting.

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This is still only 2 variables. It's missing the adjustable max speed.

Also, the reason why I'm not looking to use individual movers is because I want to be able to add together all the different values for a certain variable.

evret, if you see this, mind if I take another look at your speed sensor? I could use that to limit top speed fairly easily.

Also, after reading through this all, I sound very confusing... :/ ... it's late

you can adjust max speed by putting your signal through an AND gate with a second analog signal that would be used as a max and wire the AND into the direction input of the mover.
it would depend on how the player controls speed though.

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Originally Posted by SSTAGG1

evret, if you see this, mind if I take another look at your speed sensor? I could use that to limit top speed fairly easily.

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sure, you can have it if you want it. it's a good place holder till the official one is released as it accurately tracks speeds up to 100 (lbp speed units) and outputs in lbp speed units

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Originally Posted by evret

you can adjust max speed by putting your signal through an AND gate with a second analog signal that would be used as a max and wire the AND into the direction input of the mover.
it would depend on how the player controls speed though.

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That still doesn't scale the speed input,, it just cuts off the value. I think I'm just not going to use this idea, since it seems to be getting far too complex. Going to stick to speed input (top) with speed signal (bottom). If possible, I'll do what Antikris suggested with the multiple mover accelerations, if it does end up working how I want it. Since I'm sticking to certain values, simply having movers with each acc' value, and activating them may allow me to combine those acc's.

:p, why do I always need to make everything complex...

If I'm not mistaken, the bottom input of an Advanced Mover simply turns the entire mover on and off, and doesn't accept an analog signal. The Input Action tweak of the mover only affects how the X and Y inputs are interpreted, AFAIK.

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Originally Posted by Holguin86

If I'm not mistaken, the bottom input of an Advanced Mover simply turns the entire mover on and off, and doesn't accept an analog signal. The Input Action tweak of the mover only affects how the X and Y inputs are interpreted, AFAIK.

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Hmm, I seem to remember otherwise, but I've been very wrong before. Going to test all this now.

A bit random, but that's a nice tool, linking wiki articles that way.

Antikris' method for stacking accelerations works. Simple by combining them, I can reach any value for acc'.

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Originally Posted by Holguin86

If I'm not mistaken, the bottom input of an Advanced Mover simply turns the entire mover on and off, and doesn't accept an analog signal. The Input Action tweak of the mover only affects how the X and Y inputs are interpreted, AFAIK.

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nah it does accept analog, if it's set to strength scale the side and top inputs become acceleration scale and bottom becomes strength scale.
however it seems speed scale could work for what SSTAGG1 is looking for as top and side remain speed scale and bottom becomes top speed scale, this used with dampening as mr_fusion suggested (inverted strength scale) could the trick.
however just linking several up through a selector or sequencer would probably still be easier to get right.
@SSTAGG1- you could use division on the inputs, i have a division chip if you want it. it has to be preset in create mode but you could use a few into an or and turn on the one you want, but it may not b any better then using multiple movers.