Infractions and bans for LBP content

As anyone who has seen my new music video "The Last Thing You See "will know, there's a very strong possibility that the level will soon be moderated and I will face a ban from PSN. I'm almost certain that some people have submitted grief reports to Sony already, so there's a few things I've been wondering.

Do Sony have a rigid criteria of what constitutes "inappropriate" content, or is it purely subjective depending on the moderator investigating a good grief report? If enough people complain about a level, would they still investigate with an open mind or would they assume you are guilty by default and simply ban you anyway?

How many infractions will get you perma-banned from PSN? In my case this would be my 2nd "offence", so I'm also wondering how long a 2nd time ban usually lasts for, if anyone here knows.

Thirdly, if I were to take the level down from the servers before the Sony gestapo get a chance to look at it, will I be safe from the ban hammer or will they still uphold the complaints anyway, even with no evidence to investigate?

Wow. I hate it when something on LBP is AMAZING, then some noob reports it. Really, I just care if the level is good, not because of the content. What would be smart would be putting an age restriction (unless that kid has care-free parents). I've never really experience being moderated, or banned at all. And MM says "Use your imagination" when they restrict you behind your back.

I think Mm are quite happy to see levels that border on mature content. They picked my Space Assassins level after all, which features a scene where a guy gets ejected into space and implodes in a bloody mess. It's actually Sony who act like Nazis when it it comes to this stuff. They moderated Ladylyn's movie Figment because it had a "scary" face that allegedly freaked someones kid out, (though I suspect it was just some failed no-talent creator who got jealous and made a grief report).

I'm not sure by what criteria they judge this stuff though. Is "scary face" officially blacklisted by Sony as offensive content, or did the moderators think "well, somebody somewhere says they were offended by this, so we will consider it to be offensive"? I really don't know. What I do know though is that if a creator can get moderated just for including a scary face in his level, I don't stand much chance of flying under Sony's radar.

This is why I wish there would be a feature that allows you to block people under a certain age from playing your levels. LBP has one of the most intuitive and expansive create modes, yet creators are restricted to make levels that won't upset the lowest common denominator. I really hate it when people call this game's community mature, because the reality is that it's anything but. Heck, the people who think they are the most mature (you know who I mean) aren't.

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Originally Posted by amoney1999

Wow. I hate it when something on LBP is AMAZING, then some noob reports it. Really, I just care if the level is good, not because of the content. What would be smart would be putting an age restriction (unless that kid has care-free parents). I've never really experience being moderated, or banned at all. And MM says "Use your imagination" when they restrict you behind your back.

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Nobody has ever reported me to be mean or hateful, at least on LBP Central or the PSN. Some people actually report their enemies just to get them banned. Although it is considered nice to report inappropriate content because it's keeping the Internet safe and clean, it is considered pure hostility because reporting them to get them banned can destroy the reputation of the user the reporter hates. I only report when I see an actual violation that comes in my way. I don't report to be mean or surf the community to look for violations.

And by the way Ungreth, Sony isn't the evil one. It's the person who's reporting that you should worry about. The Internet is full of noobs, trolls, and haters. And just because you delete a level before Sony looks at it doesn't mean you won't get moderated. Back on TV.com, if you violated the TOS in your post and then delete it, it doesn't mean you won't get a TOS violation warning. Moderators can look at your edit history to see if you violated the terms of service. Even deleted posts count as posts.

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Originally Posted by bonner123

block people under a certain age from playing your levels

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People will just lie their way through an age gate.

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Originally Posted by Apple2012

Nobody has ever reported me to be mean or hateful, at least on LBP Central or the PSN. Some people actually report their enemies just to get them banned. Although it is considered nice to report inappropriate content because it's keeping the Internet safe and clean, it is considered pure hostility because reporting them to get them banned can destroy the reputation of the user the reporter hates. I only report when I see an actual violation that comes in my way. I don't report to be mean or surf the community to look for violations.

And by the way Ungreth, Sony isn't the evil one. It's the person who's reporting that you should worry about. The Internet is full of noobs, trolls, and haters. And just because you delete a level before Sony looks at it doesn't mean you won't get moderated. Back on TV.com, if you violated the TOS in your post and then delete it, it doesn't mean you won't get a TOS violation warning. Moderators can look at your edit history to see if you violated the terms of service. Even deleted posts count as posts.

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I don't think you can compare what happens on TV.com to Sony's own system of moderation. A law in one state is not necessarily law in another state. If you told me that you had actually been banned for a level which you already took down before Sony examined it's content then I would take it as canon. Otherwise, I refuse to acknowledge the validity of speculation stated as fact.

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Originally Posted by Rabid-Coot

People will just lie their way through an age gate.

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But then the responsibility would lie with the player who is acting deceitfully to circumvent an age rating, or with the parents that have neglected to monitor what their child is playing, rather than the onus being on the creator to produce something "age appropriate". Otherwise the developers of any age restricted game could be held accountable when kids convince their mum to buy them games not intended for their age group, or the producers of 18+plus rated movies could be held accountable when kids buy the DVD from e-bay, etc...

At present the onus IS on the creator to produce content suitable for 7 year olds, but a creator-specified age rating system for lbp would at least provide us with a disclaimer, even when kids find a way to violate the system as they inevitably will. Let's face it, there's probably more kids playing COD than adults, since the big appeal of killing people with guns has generally worn off by the time most people grow their first pubic hair. Nobody holds Infinity Ward responsible for this though since they have already stated that their game is inappropriate for a certain age group and it is a parents duty to ensure that their offspring don't play it, and not the moral responsibility of developers to stop making these games.

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Originally Posted by Ungreth

I don't think you can compare what happens on TV.com to Sony's own system of moderation. A law in one state is not necessarily law in another state. If you told me that you had actually been banned for a level which you already took down before Sony examined it's content then I would take it as canon. Otherwise, I refuse to acknowledge the validity of speculation stated as fact.

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I never got banned from the PSN. I didn't even get moderated. I'm just assuming that just because you violated the rules and got away with it doesn't mean you won't get in trouble. If somebody reports a level before the creator deletes it, it will be due to moderation. As long as it's reported.

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Originally Posted by Apple2012

I never got banned from the PSN. I didn't even get moderated. I'm just assuming that just because you violated the rules and got away with it doesn't mean you won't get in trouble. If somebody reports a level before the creator deletes it, it will be due to moderation. As long as it's reported.

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So how can Sony verify that the good grief report was genuine and not submitted spuriously/maliciously if there is no evidence for them to examine? Think about it. I'm not 100% certain that they wouldn't just go ahead and ban me anyway, but if they did then that would be akin to a jury finding a man guilty in the absence of any evidence against him. I would assume that Sony's moderators would be fairer than that, but who knows? Maybe they do burn people at the stake every time someone points a finger and cries "witch!"

One time half of The Dups levels got moderated because of a picture this guy:

http://a248.e.akamai.net/origin-cdn....9104171-2T.jpg

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Originally Posted by lemurboy12

One time half of The Dups levels got moderated because of a picture this guy:

http://a248.e.akamai.net/origin-cdn....9104171-2T.jpg

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Seriously? Sony considered that thing offensive enough to moderate it? :boo:

Edit: Oh wait, is that a pokemon? I guess it must have been a copyright issue then...

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Originally Posted by Rabid-Coot

People will just lie their way through an age gate.

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Isn't there some sort of parental controls on ps3? This would be a great place to implement it!

To be fair, I think it was naive and unrealistic of Sony to release a game that relies on user created content while putting a 7+ rating on it. They can moderate content if and when they become aware of it, but unlike most retail games no ratings board could guarantee exactly what content LBP's audience would be exposed to. Take Assassins Creed for example. PEGI would have examined the content, rated it, and the game would have been released in exactly the same state as the day it was given it's rating. That's not the case for a game like LBP though, is it? What PEGI see when they rate it is the Mm story levels which were designed to be appropriate for 7 year olds, but what they don't see is the millions of levels that will be made by the community...which could contain absolutely anything at all. I could potentially produce an LBP movie that depicts two girls eating poop out of a cup, and people would submit their grief reports, but by the time Sony's moderators get to investigate there could be thousands of kids who have already been exposed to it.

The age rating system (as it currently exists) is fundamentally flawed where user generated content is concerned.

Now this is very rediculous, but I wish Sony will moderate a Mortal Kombat level (yes, I'm talking the copied ones) for being mature. They should also moderate a bomb survival for being offensive. LBP is rated E (7+) in our country, as Mortal Kombat and bomb survivals have rated M (17+) content in their levels.

You're adorable. Yes, they may be based on "mature" things, but the levels themselves are fairly inoffensive. While the levels are terrible, they don't deserve to be moderated.

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Originally Posted by Rabid-Coot

People will just lie their way through an age gate.

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well, if they lie it's their fault

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Originally Posted by Ungreth

So how can Sony verify that the good grief report was genuine and not submitted spuriously/maliciously if there is no evidence for them to examine?

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Sony makes bans on PSN and they do not have to explain anything. They simply do ban. There is no indication that they verify report. You should know how they work from your own experience.
The other question is LBP levels. It is not entirely clear who moderated LBP levels, but even they don't have to explain anything, they just erase level. I know that MM puts level back, if you complain and a complaint is justified.

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Originally Posted by goranilic

Sony makes bans on PSN and they do not have to explain anything. They simply do ban. There is no indication that they verify report. You should know how they work from your own experience.
The other question is LBP levels. It is not entirely clear who moderated LBP levels, but even they don't have to explain anything, they just erase level. I know that MM puts level back, if you complain and a complaint is justified.

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Actually the last time I was banned Sony explained in detail exactly I was banned for and why they considered it to be a banning offence, so clearly they do take the time to look at a level before they make a decision. Granted I had to ask them why, they didn't just tell me at the point when they first delivered the ban, but once I had asked them then they took the time to explain.

I'm guessing if Sony didn't actually do a proper investigation and just swung the ban hammer every time a grief report came through then trolls would be running rampant to abuse the system, simply reporting whoever they felt like targetting and getting hundreds of innocent players banned every day.

Anyway, in all seriousness, you're calling for a ban
In my LBPCommunity conspiracy theories, it's not the under 18 kid that grief report you, but the user that thinks that has to protect anyone, thing that I found only partially right
You know how much I care abut kids, the people, etc but I think that parents shuld look after their kids, and not expect that PS3 or TV educate them, so I blame obviously "the content" but much more the lack of parents' care

so, in my judgement, this time your content is not wrong "per se" but it's like a spot with rough grass in a garden where there's a lot of people that want to keep everyting in order
I say diversity is richness but some could argue this

I hope your artistic integrity will be safeguarded, but if something happens I won't be surprised at all

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Originally Posted by OmegaSlayer

Anyway, in all seriousness, you're calling for a ban
In my LBPCommunity conspiracy theories, it's not the under 18 kid that grief report you, but the user that thinks that has to protect anyone, thing that I found only partially right
You know how much I care abut kids, the people, etc but I think that parents shuld look after their kids, and not expect that PS3 or TV educate them, so I blame obviously "the content" but much more the lack of parents' care

so, in my judgement, this time your content is not wrong "per se" but it's like a spot with rough grass in a garden where there's a lot of people that want to keep everyting in order
I say diversity is richness but some could argue this

I hope your artistic integrity will be safeguarded, but if something happens I won't be surprised at all

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You're right. I knew the risk I was taking when I released the level, and when the punch comes I'll take it on the chin. It was worth it, just for the catharsis of finally taking the plunge and expressing the full scope of my artistic vision in all it's horribleness, without fear of the consequences. Let them hang me, I've already tied my own noose.

2 Girls 1 Cup coming soon :)