Prizes

For or against?

I have never really put any prize bubbles in any of my levels because I have been plagued by the profile message and I guess it made me hate them. I'm getting ready to publish a new level and I am considering the benefits of adding them. Do players really like to get user made prizes? Do they use them? Creators, do you ever look through the prizes you get and have you ever used them? Do you dread prize bubbles in user made levels like I do or do you think they add appeal to people that don't have to deal with a full profile??

I never use user content, I don't know. It's weird, I just feel dirty when I use it, it's like it's not mine or something...

But I do use those and switches and all that stuff.


I'll mostly use switches, some examples are (8 magic mouth device) and a (pulse light thing)

As for custom content that serves no purpose but to be used in your level as a decoration, no I don't use it.

Well the profile problems doesn't exactly help with people liking prizes.

I wouldn't mind using something that someone else made in my level. I had an idea about making a stage out all community objects, just to see if I could do it. It's not the elements in a level, but the execution of those elements. Unfortunately, the game, in its current state, pretty much makes that impossible.

I think prize bubbles should put in places that are out of the way that people have to make a concious decision to pick up. I don't like when they are in the main path and you are forced to pick them up to continue.

I never use other peoples prizes. I am building a pretty significant level and i was debating wheter or not to put two of my really unique objects in as a prize. I wouldn't mind if people used it, why else would you put it in there, but I do like the suggestion to keep it out of the main path so you can ignore it if you don't want it. i will keep that in mind as I design.

Nice topic!
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For those of you that do not like user created prizes, does that also go for when you have a user created sticker based on a cool object they made in the level and you have to pick up the sticker to activate a sticker switch? Or do you just not like a general prize bubble not tied to opening certain areas of a level up?

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Originally Posted by wexfordian

I think prize bubbles should put in places that are out of the way that people have to make a concious decision to pick up. I don't like when they are in the main path and you are forced to pick them up to continue.

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Yeah, it really drives me mad to have to collect stickers to carry on, especially when it's for a sticker switch five inches away and never gets used again after that (what's wrong with a different type of switch).

And I really don't like it when I'm forced to pick up a sticker of someone's face, or I'm given it as a prize at the end of a level. It just feels creepy having pictures of people I don't know being dumped on my hard drive.

oh god why can i never make a short post

Another thing that gets on my wick, even though I'm not absolutely mental about getting high scores, I still like to try and strive for them. So it's a bit of a pain having to pick up prizes which are just going to be deleted as soon as I get chance (I don't really want to rip off other people's stuff in my levels, even if they're giving it away), to get on the leaderboard.

When / If I ever make a level, and have prizes to give away, I'll try and make it so that there's two paths or openings or whatever at some points, one with prize bubbles, one with an equal number of points, so whether somebody wants the prizes or not, they still stand a chance of getting the same score as anyone else.

I actually aim to avoid all community prizes when playing other peoples levels. I'll never use them and it gets annoying deleting them all the time. So I vote either give the player a choice to collect them or just don't put them in at all. I prefer the latter.

But then again saying all that, this forum is mainly for people who like to make their own levels and actually put a lot of time into them. I'm guessing most of the comminty just goes into create mode to mess about and upload stuff like "The Outofthisworld Ultimate Super Rocket Skateboard Extreme 9000 (uberleet)" so they might like the prizes since they can't\won't take the time to make their own.

Interesting responses....It appears that most creators also "hate" prize bubbles..LOL. I'm going to ask around some more. The reason I ask is that "prize" levels seem to have become very popular on the cool pages and so it made me wonder if I'm out of touch with the average "Player".

I add prizes in specific 2 player + parts, or easily accesible places, but not forcing you to get them. I only add stuff I've made too. Using other peoples objects is pretty lazy, really.

I've made a few prizes (just 2) in my latest level, and i think they are worth it. One is an infinite life checkpoint, and the other is my MGS RAY. But that is SERIOUSLY HARD to get and i honestly don't think anyone will. I could easily, but that's cause it's my level lul. Also it's 2 player needed section :P

For, because credit or not, I love seeing stuff I made used in other levels.

I'm the kind of person that likes to explore and collect everything to be honest. If the creator takes the time to hide a prize bubble somewhere, they're obviously intending for players to try and find it. Now, if it does look like something I've already seen (or it's a likely useless sticker), I'll probably just ignore it. I do have to say, I'm not a fan of getting the same crap over and over, especially when I'm forced to. I've never once had a profile problem. I clear out my pop-it rather frequently though.

As for putting them in my levels, I usually do (probably 10 at the very most). The intent of putting prize bubbles in a level is to increase the replay value of a level for people who like collecting them. However, by putting them in places that aren't required to beat a level, you allow people who will ignore them to pass by freely. In my opinion, prizes should only be things used in the level and/or your other levels (or even levels to come if you have something already). Or heck, even some contraption you've made in your spare time. Either way, giving away other people's creations is kinda tacky... (though, I figure that should be obvious to everyone here)

Hmmm... my digestion level has a few prizes and stickers. Let me explain what they are and try and point out their value in my mind.

If you play through the level once, you won't be able to get to any prize bubbles at all.

If you finish the level, you get given a sticker. This activates a sticker switch somewhere hidden in the level.

If you can work out what just happened, then you are given a whole lot of bonus points as well as another sticker.

This sticker can then be used to access two secret bonus areas. One has a whole new section with different game play elements (and a decent amount of points). I see this as a reward for someone dedicated enough to replay the level.

Both of the 2nd sticker activated areas have other point bubbles as well as prizes of items that would take more than 5 seconds to build but are in the level itself.

If you get all the items, you get given a relatively nice item as a reward.

If you ace the level, you get a super complex amazing thing that took quite a while to build. It's not the easiest of levels to ace, but it's by no means impossible. It's a reward though again for great skill and dedication.

All the items are from things in the level itself. I don't have random pictures of my cat or "My furst rokit LoL!!!!111!!l1!!!" in it. I've put them in as a reward for people and so other creators can get a few clues on how I did some of my things.

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My "How to" levels always have a handout trying to show in detail what the lesson taught. One of them has 3 prize bubbles, because there are a few different things being taught. I've tried to show the key elements in those things, with everything hidden but all the switches visible in create mode so people can see how things are done. All of the bubbles can be jumped over or layer changed past though. They are all next to the scoreboard so you can't miss them.

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On my TSR - the Three Stage Rocket, there are no prize bubbles. The rocket has 10-20 hours of work put into it, that's longer than some people spend on bosses. I'm not going to give away something like that to random players. There are far too many advanced techniques on that to just give it to a random person who won't appreciate it. Besides which, it won't work without some parts that are external to the rocket itself. :rolleyes:

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All of my prize bubbles and finishing rewards are copy protected. I don't mind other creators pulling apart my items to work out how I did this or that. I use to do that a lot on story mode objects to teach myself techniques. But I don't want those items directly used by other people too lazy to make things themselves.

So... that might give you some ideas on how I treat prize bubbles as a creator. :)

OK I agree with the exception of Elbee's handouts in the How To levels. The magic mouth one is especially useful (i still made my own though :P)

yeah i also like to build my own switch objects, eventually i'll get ideas from other objects but i'll build them on my own...

if its possible i avoid community objects cause everytime i stop playing i delete them in the editor.... yes, i fear that bug :D

in my earlier lvls i also gave stickers and ugly stuff as prizes cause i didnt think about it...


all in all the idea to make those objects optional is best in my mind...
in the future i will only place prize bubbles in 2x sections, hard puzzles or without blocking the main way

I hate prizes in levels, unless they are good stickers..not the useless creations. I also hate the levels that have like "300 prizes".

Back in the beta, I had made a kind of giant grinding contraption which I had move forward, pick up and grind the various community prizes I had collected. It was kinda fun seeing it chew up and destroy everything in its path and spit out the random indestructible bits :)

I should probably make a bigger, better and more badass version of it sometime. I'll call it the Grindinator-X (tm) :arg:

Edit: I particularly liked feeding it with the various Goomba creatures from the Mario 1-1 levels.

I only keep community objects if it's something ingenious and I can't figure out how it works. I won't use it in my level, but just find out how it works so I can make a similar object in my level.

So if I can see how an object works just by looking at it, I do not want to collect it. Anything that just 'looks nice' I don't want either - I want everything in my level to be created by my hands (even if inspired by someone else).

That said, I do feel the 'average player' does enjoy collecting stuff.


I have a question for people: Do you have a problem with sticker switches?

I want to use sticker switches in my level, probably involving 3 or 4 different stickers. I want to have a kind of 'weapon switching' theme, and use the stickers to change between weapons to access new areas or defeat certain enemies. Would you find this annoying or not?

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Originally Posted by EastwoodAndy

I have a question for people: Do you have a problem with sticker switches?

I want to use sticker switches in my level, probably involving 3 or 4 different stickers. I want to have a kind of 'weapon switching' theme, and use the stickers to change between weapons to access new areas or defeat certain enemies. Would you find this annoying or not?

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I'd guess that would completly depend on how you implement it.
For example, will i have to run a long way to switch weapons every time I need to? To be able to dodge the bullets I need to kill an enemy with a stick with, do I need hands that move faster than the speed of light? etc...

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Originally Posted by Tomoso

I'd guess that would completly depend on how you implement it.
For example, will i have to run a long way to switch weapons every time I need to? To be able to dodge the bullets I need to kill an enemy with a stick with, do I need hands that move faster than the speed of light? etc...

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No, let's say you run past a door which is blocked by ice. Later on you get a flame upgrade sticker which allows you to go back and melt the ice to open the door.

With enemies I'm thinking of using the paintinator to 'stun' them and then use the correct sticker to kill/weaken them within a given time frame before they start moving again.

Sounds nice. I never thought of stickers like that before if you know what I mean. Almost RPGesque in collecting them like items to progress through the level... I always just thought of them as unlocking prize bubbles. Good idea!
The enemy thing may work, as long as the blanance is good between the stun and the kill. I can tell now it would get frustrating if I accidently changed my sticker page and died as a result because I was to slow :P

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Originally Posted by Tomoso

Sounds nice. I never thought of stickers like that before if you know what I mean. Almost RPGesque in collecting them like items to progress through the level... I always just thought of them as unlocking prize bubbles. Good idea!
The enemy thing may work, as long as the blanance is good between the stun and the kill. I can tell now it would get frustrating if I accidently changed my sticker page and died as a result because I was to slow :P

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Thanks for the feedback.

I want to get the balance right, if you have to keep opening the popit all the time it could get tedious pretty quickly.

I think it's going to be reserved for a couple of boss fights and even then I'm going to be generous on the timing. I'll save the reaction times and skill for the paintinator parts, the sticker parts are just to add variety and to match the correct weapon with the correct enemy.

I never end up using creations in prize bubbles... with the exception of specially made 'tools' such as Maraz's talking tool etc. So I prefer NOT to collect prize bubbles.

With that said, my Oculynth level has 9 collectibles and a host of 'ace' and 'all items' gifts... so I might have to tone that down in future levels...

Have I seen this before...?





Against.

Ah prize bubbles, I tend to avoid them if ABSOLUTELY POSSIBLE... Id never use them, even if theyre well made.. and then, most prizes are just crap (im sorry but its true!), I even hate it when the prizes arent named... is that too nit picky? Still, I wish there was some way to turn off prize bubbles... like if im going through a level, and I had to option to just turn them into points so I dont have to collect them -__- Get me? D:

Same here. I make a deliberate effort to avoid every prize bubble i can. With a few maxed out levels and some custom stickers and objects of my own making, my profile gets full FAST. So it doesn't take much, and it's a real pain to have to go into create mode literally after EVERY LEVEL I PLAY just to delete all the prizes I just picked up.

So for now, until MM gives us an option to collect the bubbles and NOT keep the prizes, I jump over prize bubbles; I go around; I work extra hard to avoid them if they're in my way.

The only prize bubbles I've kept are ones I've actively sought out - eg, compact logic gates.

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Originally Posted by starpunk

I even hate it when the prizes arent named... is that too nit picky?

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I'm the same way. If a prize isn't named, I usually don't think twice before deleting it. They really should have prompt to name your items when you save them.

I dont care much for user prizes, but I have used certain things like fireworks, and/or switches and detailed furniture. My real pet peeve is 2 things: People that put stickers in unavoidable paths and people that dont give a name to their prize.

Oh, one exception I wanted to mention -

When people have special sticker switches that are uniquely implemented, I'll definitely grab those. There are some amazing things you can do with sticker switches in this game. I played a tower defense level that was phenomenally clever with sticker switches.

I guess I'll leave out the prize bubbles out of my next level then? I too never re-use anything I get from someone and I hardly look at them for inspiration. What I DO like about them is the collection hunt. I like to hunt for items in a live, try to find them all.

I guess I could do that too with some caches of point bubbles but I don't like to hunt for the high score, while I do like to collect 100% of all the prizes in a level. My mind is weird ;)

I put prizes in my level, but I put them in places that are always easily avoidable. The one exception, I do give an 'Ace' prize which can't be avoided.

The prizes I give out are parts of the level, so that people can build similar things. I think it's a nice alternative to publishing the level as 'copyable'.

It's easy enough to place prizes at the end instead of giving 'level complete' prizes, but there's really nothing you can do about the 'Ace' prize if you want to reward someone for that.

I usually delete what I win, because I don't use other people's objects in my levels. I do like collecting stuff if the level is good, though, because I might take it apart to see how it's made. And there's an exception here, too... if it's something like a logic switch or other contraption that stays out of view but provides a useful function, those prizes I will keep... and definitely use while creating.

I put in prizes in my levels, but I will always make them an optional thing to pick up. Unlike the people who put prizes in the way of your progress through the level. I hate that. I have to clean out my pop-it daily because of all the crappy prizes I get. :/

On another note, some prizes can be really cool. I remember on this one level I got a switch that triggers four events in a row, I used that in several of my levels (that I never published).

For the most part my prizes are out of the way, but I usually include a few in each level.

The ones that are easy to get, or that are offered for level completion, IF I offer them, are generic objects that serve useful purposes in level creation (i.e. spinny lights, switches, etc)

The ones that require effort to get are usually some of the unique creations in the level. And I usually include one highly coveted item as my aced level prize, usually the object that "makes" the level memorable. But these aren't mantatory pickups because I know most people will not use them or want them clutting up their stash.

That being said, I empty out my community objects folder daily, so while I give them out, I really don't keep much. Those I do keep are usually for dissecting later, or they are again generic level "tools".

I've had a LOT of people beg for my spider tank, and have even been ostracized for not including it as a prize in my demo level. I'm really on the fence on this one about whether to give it away or not. It's a very personal creation and I don't think the average creator is capable of making it themselves, so in a sense I kind of want to keep it all to myself, or share it with specific people I befriend.

apparently my views are similar to most of you on prize bubbles
...a mixed bag.. occasionally cool, but often hinderance
in other words.. they should prolly remain comfortably optional (unless necessary)

though i do sometimes include a prize bubble (in my levels) with an invention that i suspect people didnt even realize was an invention.. kind of like an indirect arrow toward something small that i think is cool, but perhaps a little too subtle (like an interactive shower in a bathroom)
...things (just for fun) that in no way effect the journey to the end of the level....

still...
a lot of this seems to reflect the general impatient attitude of the average gamer.. and the overflow of not-too-well thought out clutter levels... sometimes it is difficult to know when to pay attention and when to barrel thru the simplistic obstacles

after some contemplation and reading of other views in this thread, i plan to tone down the amount of prizes i offer...
user-created content rarely has the same shine as official in-game content.

if only you could create new costume pieces or hair styles and the like (to offer as prizes).
that might be more appealing.
or if only there were different sorts of score bubbles... not just sizes... like maybe they could include jewels that tally at the end of a level and don't fill up your inventory

its funny, all these little issues and dilemmas that surface the more you play and create and interact with others... its very fascinating to learn the logic of gameplay vs game-player

I was playing through some story levels with a mate earlier, and it felt weird to actually be picking up prize bubbles again, rather than trying to avoid them.

I have no problem putting prize bubbles in my levels. I do try to put them in avoidable spots for those who don't want them though, especially now that I'm learning more about the effects it has on our game memory and all that. I think adding them is good for people who are just in it for the fun of playing and collecting, but more importantly... I like to throw them in for some of the younger or even less creative LBP'ers who want to make their own levels and perhaps inspire them to get ideas from our creations. I'm not saying I'm a genius by any means, but I've had a few players ask me how I did certain things so I'm happy to just throw them in as prizes for people like that who want to know about or really like something I made.

Like a few other's have stated, I too tend to put my more complicated or time consuming objects in hard to find places or as prizes for Acing a level.

To me, the best prizes are those objects that simply make my jaw drop from an engineering point of view, so that I can learn from what others have accomplished... that or a really good sticker. A good sticker can go a long way in helping others build a level. Not everyone owns a PSEye, so I've thrown in some stickers here and there of interesting textures that people can use to decorate their own levels or dress up their sack person. I find great value in that... especially since we don't have the ability to create costumes or props for our sack people. Sticker prizes at least help to some degree with that problem.

Most of the prizes I've gotten in others levels have been lame, but the value of the few good ones that I've learned from and been able to further my comprehension of what can be done with this game has far outweighed the bad ones.

Cheers!

Interesting thread...

I've been in the process of making my first level and I've been including my own prize bubbles with objects that I have in the level... mostly mechanical devices that I think could be useful to others or even devices that could be altered slightly to be made into their own object.

The reason: I really don't think most people are going to use them after they leave my level but when I played through the story levels, my favorite part about the whole experience was collecting everything. So, I miss that element from community levels. I like to get through a level and see in the end that there are places that I missed... that way, I can go back and find those secret areas. That's also what I hope other people will want to do after they play my level.

Most of the objects, so far, have been out of the way and I'm not forcing players to pick them up... I'm glad that I saw this thread, though, so I can keep it that way.

I am against. The only prizes I like are AND gates and such, the talking tool etc. Anything that is a TOOL. I would never use bosses, decorations etc, but if it serves a practical purpose, I will use it. I never give prizes, but I may give tools, such as the wiring I use to make sequenced events happen (either a wheel with mag switches, or a dark matter track.

Early on I had a nice collection of community objects that I really wanted to keep. I probably would have never used them for anything, but I thought of them as collectables and LBP history. Like someday in the future, a certain item would be seen as a rare piece that people wish they could still get.

I ended up having to just ditch that whole idea after a month... I couldn't even use storage lock box levels anymore, as I needed the publishing space and just couldn't maintain more than one box that filled quickly.

The only reason it crosses my mind to put prizes in levels is for pleasing the player, but what are they honestly going to do with any of them? Great creators make their own stuff, and this really doesn't help them. Players who don't take creating seriously will just use them in terrible levels that I'd rather not be affiliated with, or uncredited as a contributor (selfish, I know).

Rarely have I seen a prize that I need or want... switch boxes are about the only thing I could really see as an awesome prize for creators such as us. Something like the tutorials Shwiayari and Elbee make, offering them prizes.

Custom texture stickers captured with eyetoy would be useful as well. How often will anybody capture a perfectly lit and symmetrical texture though? Or will take the time to hand draw their own perfect textures? Something that's functional and can be placed as a useful sticker will be a rarity. The problem with it as well, lies in the software... you can only place so many stickers on an object, so it would more than likely have to be one giant sticker on a wall, or ten thousand blocks with one sticker on them. That's just really makes them a waste.

The only level I've found that gave away a good custom texture sticker, was Mega Man's Escape.

Personally, I rarely even look at my community items page, other than to delete, there are, however, certain Items I come across and I remember seeing it in a level, and if my first thought is "Hmm... how did the creator make this?" , I keep it, and observe it, and try to learn how it works, then delete.
I never publish other people's work. I only use it as a lesson to further by creating ability.

So yes, there is a use for prize bubbles, BUT ONLY TO A CERTAIN EXTENT!