I'm a bit disappointed with this. Swapping instruments:
https://twitter.com/edhargrave/statu...55378420219904
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I'm a bit disappointed with this. Swapping instruments:
https://twitter.com/edhargrave/statu...55378420219904
Wait, I'm confused. Why are you disappointed? I think Ed was replying in regards to what would sound good rather than just an example of switching instruments. His later reply answered you more directly.
Yes, I just came to post the reply:Quote:
Originally Posted by koltonaugust
https://twitter.com/edhargrave/statu...69135418572800
Cool features, GribbleGrunger!
Also, to Lord Dreamerz and koltonaugust:
I personally think it's a good thing that MM considers to give some developers Dreams' engine to make games outside of Dreams itself to sell on the PS Store. I think it would also be a great idea to use the parental system on PS4 to determine what players (kids) can see and play in Dreams and to allow at least a little bit of nudity (like in The Witcher 3 for example), gore, strong language and things like that with tags that describe it.
But Dreams will be like LBP. Family friendly. I guess extreme gore, strong language and things like that need to be left out in order to keep things family friendly. It's still a shame, because a few creators might want to feature serious topics like in Detroit Become Human or other games. We'll see what boundaries they set up and what kind of people get to use Dreams to make games outside of the community.
Just a little bit of the money topic. I think you see it from a creator's perspective, Lord Dreamerz, but you also need to consider how players perceive it. LBP's DLC system wasn't that bad. You get some good content most of the time, but paid DLC always creates some borders. You can feel left out if you don't 'pay the premium' and it can scare people away. At least players. Creators like you and me would welcome the monetization option, but players would just feel left out I guess. That's why they are scared of such a system and prefer a 'outside of Dreams' option.
I've got to say, really looking forward to what MM is coming up with. Honestly, this is why I was skeptical about MM giving the LBP franchise to Sumo-Digital. Sumo just didn't have the heart/spirit that the LBP creators had when making the first 2 games. Although I still love LBP3, and the game is still going strong, it was ultimate MM who created my favorite childhood memories (LBP1 AND LBP2). MM has heart and passion. And I really look forward to whatever else they plan to do after they release Dreams.
While there are certain limitations with Dreams I think it's still going to be a big hit for me. Unity Engine is cool and I'm using it, but it doesn't offer sound creation, modelling, easy to learn but complex logic system and many more things in one package. You have to trade in money making, adult takes on a theme and limitation to PS4, but it's still worth it.
If you haven't already seen it, try out the sold version of the game "OneShot" , it is one of my favorite RPG Maker games and is a game I love in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by koltonaugust
That is assuming MM has a choice in the matter as I would guess Sony is the one who ultimately will or won't put their foot down on the subject and forcing MM to bend to their will. I learn to not trust most game companies on properly allowing adult content often, especially when it comes to non-super realistic style games, for example there is lots of anime style games that get censored in the western markets by many game companies and sometimes even the game's age rating gets lowered afterwards just so the game can be sold to a supposedly broader audience... We are now lucky that Steam just recently allows adult games, because for awhile they technically didn't allow it and were removing stuff such as adult anime dating sims at the time. You say MM did some light adult content in levels on a stream... while that is nice to hear, but MM might be able to get away with more then the users... just a thought. It would be great if MM allowed adult content in Dreams as-long there is a method to not allow kids to get to it easily... however I do think it's unrealistic to expect that to happen, and still feel it's a better bet of being able to separate our games from Dreams so that it would work easier for that stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by koltonaugust
As a note: I personally am not relying on Dreams to make my personal games as I am a PC game developer and been training myself mostly in that area nowadays. However Dreams still looks great fun to create in, more so then stuff like Unreal or Unity on PC. I don't feel Dreams is to limited to be used as a game engine... especially as you said it's already far more advance then something simple like RPG Maker which is a thing people still used today to make games. I don't think one needs complete freedom with their tools in order to make professional games if they are fine with it. But I can't be bothered to spend more years of my life learning how to make higher quality games on yet another game making engine if that content is trapped on a single console game itself that might die someday and everything is lost forever among some other reasons. I tend to mainly work on only bigger personal game projects as a note. Hobby work is all good and fine, but now if I can help it, I prefer to invest in things that I can take farther with me in life when it comes to my creative works as there is only so much time to share it between other things.
On another note. It was cool seeing small part of LBP remade in Dreams! Looked very close to the original... Almost makes one wonder if there would even be a point in Sony making a LBP4 anymore because we could almost make a LBP4 in Dreams! Haha! But neh... I still think there is a place for a LBP4 as one can never get the full LBP experience from Dreams outside of some small novelty levels. And I still feel a LBP4 would be best left 2.5D for it's core gameplay and not try to compete with Dreams and it's far less limited nature. There's still a place for LBP I feel, it just need to stick to being it's own flavor of concept.
I think I remember someone from MM mentioning you can use "assets" you create in Dreams in other game programs. I always assumed it might be limited to visual and musical content, though, it doesn't "seem" impossible to expand that to animations, visual effects, programming (i.e. turning logic into programmable code?), etc. (this, of course, coming from a guy with novice video game programming experience)
On the topic of monetization, this may be an unpopular opinion, but I actually kind of like the idea of, say, running an ad before or after one plays a level, as long as its not too intrusive or disruptive, and was completely optional...and maybe was limited to specific levels chosen by MM as being "worthy of sitting through a thirty-second ad to play"?
Games of any type or scale take a lot of time and energy to create...It would certainly give creators more incentive to to create higher quality levels if it meant they could make a little money off them? :confused:I dunno...
Just something to think about. :p
Huh, I weirdly agree with everyone even though everyone is saying pretty different things.
@GribbleGrunger - Keep those twitter questions coming XD! I'm loving them!
@mdkd - I actually think Dreams is the least family friendly game that Mm has done in a LONG time. I mean, just from the trailer everyone thought that Art was getting out of a coffin (the guitar case). Also the color schemes are definitely on the darker noire film era side which can be scary to kids. I do think Lord Dreamerz is right though about Mm probably not having the final say in whats allowed. One can still hope for very little moderation with a great level discovery system (which will be IMPRESSIVE if they pull off both).
@gurren - I also feel that Mm is really what made me love LBP, not LBP itself. When I first played LBP1, I actually HATED it since I'm not a big fan of 2D platformers. I didn't at the time realize there were creation tools or the developers just put their heart into the work and once I found that out I fell in love with it.
@Lord-Dreamerz - I feel that about wanting to invest your time in things that give you something back. That's why I'm actually hoping dreams gets a sequel that is just a full fledged engine, geared toward standalone experiences and not bound to one console. However, I'm fine with dreams for a while :p
@comishguy - That is a really neat idea (as long as the ads are optional)! I wouldn't expect much from the exporting of assets since there are no meshes really to export (though I have no idea what 3d printers take to work so maybe they do have a voxel to mesh converter, though then I'd wonder what kind of mesh as different programs save them differently. Though i suppose some programs work with voxel sculpting similarly to dreams, but I honestly don't have much knowledge here.). I'm expecting audio, 3d print files, and probably one more thing that I'm overlooking to be allowed to be exported. Maybe a midi file?
Any questions you lot would like asking? Nothing we know they're not likely to answer.
Keep in mind, Dreams will go for 60$. You pay for the story, the toolkit and the potential community levels. Seeing ads in a 60$ game is not what you want. Some straight monetization is much better. Make your game outside of Dreams and sell it with a license for selling things. This is coming from a creator of big projects, but also from a player who enjoys the LBP spirit.
Anyway, if it wasn't asked, can you ask how custom fonts work? Do you design them like any object or specifically as font?
I've got to go out for a couple of hours. I think I know who to ask about this so I'll do it when I get back.Quote:
Originally Posted by mdkd99
It would be so cool if we could import our own fonts like with audio.
Still no reply. Either they're crunching or got fed up of may constant questioning.
According to one of the videos, they don't crunch at Mm, but they are undoubtedly busy before the beta announcement. I'm curious as to what their last minute fixes before beta are as there haven't been many apparent changes in the past few streams. My guess is online stuff and UI for menus. I would say I'd be surprised if online worked super well during the beta, but honestly at this point they've surprised me so many times (in good ways) that I'm numb to more features. It's like that feeling after thanksgiving dinner.
Also, I don't think Mm is fed up with any questions. I think they're super excited about them, but are unsure of how much they are allowed to say.
On fonts. Unfortunately he didn't fully understand what I meant. I've added another post explaining more carefully but he hasn't answered that:
https://twitter.com/Gribblegrunger/s...55672258662400
I have not been following Dreams news much. I have question of which I have no idea if MM talked about it before. How organic can we make characters in Dreams? Most characters I've seen from Dreams are very clay model or toy in looks... while that is not a huge problem, but it would be nice to know how far we can go on the style of our characters. And on a somewhat related note, I still wonder if MM will have cross promotion DLC with other game series like LBP did... for example imagine a Sonic The hedgehog DLC level pack in Dreams with premade Sonic characters and objects for users. While we could technically make stuff like that ourselves in Dreams... but I could still see MM doing it regardless, which might be interesting. Maybe DLC content would somehow be little more advance then what we can make in Dreams depending on how limited things are... As just a idea they might even directly import the character models from their own games to this one.
There are many ways to make your characters. The first choice is clearly going to be the mannequin, which has plenty of flexibility, but then you have traditional methods using keyframe animation, such as the horse in the recent Halloween stream, and animations created by swapping between assets, which has the advantage of being able to create 'drawn' animations using the 'strokes' tool. Here's the horse created using keyframe animation. Bare in mind he threw this together for the Halloween stream and given days instead of hours, he could have cleaned this up greatly:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Dreamerz
https://youtu.be/qIkN2IvWEj0?t=1h13m36s
On the subject of the bolded: They won't do that. Everything in Dreams HAS to be made in Dreams. That is the rule they're following. This is a serious development tool and they're going to treat it as such moving forward, even going as far as making their next game with it.
That doesn't really answer my question. That horse is very Non-organic and still follows under the whole toy look including visible separated joints on it's limbs.Quote:
Originally Posted by GribbleGrunger
That's just the style he chose. Given more time and a different style, you could easily make something that didn't look so non-organic. At the end of the day though, Dreams isn't going to compete with the likes of the ND or GG engine, it's going to allow people to make AA titles comparable to top notch Indie games or less realistic looking AAA titles such as Tearaway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Dreamerz
I'm not sure what that is suppose to mean exactly considering 3D indie games can have any level of 3D graphics using the same tools PS4 games are made with and beyond. Would help if there was examples of humanoid characters I could see... only ones i've really seen much is that detective guy and bear girl from the storymode trailers which are very clearly toy style.Quote:
Originally Posted by GribbleGrunger
You are in control of building, designing, animating, shading, texturing etc. You can't use that knowledge to extrapolate the potential for something other than MMs style?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Dreamerz
I don't get what you are trying to get at? I was just curious how far the character creation could go visually including if it could go beyond a toy style as that is mainly what has been shown, and wanted to see examples. I can't sit here and assume we can easily go beyond MM's own styles if I have no evidence for it... sure we likely will be able to do more advance things then they have shown... but to what end is still a mystery, and there is no reason we should assume anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by GribbleGrunger
Of course you can. Some people are going to go well beyond anything MM have done themselves. It's just art style, approach and method.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Dreamerz
I think you meant to ask if there are other styles for characters, right? MM chose the 'sketchy' appearance like in a notebook and a little bit like in Tearaway for most of their projects, but the LBP anniversary stream looked a little bit different. Although there aren't any textures to choose from, The guy behind the anniversary level managed to make the bricks look like bricks and the wood like wood.
I think in theory other artstyles for characters are possible, we just need to see how much the style can differ.
It's not 'in theory', it's definitely. Art style is infinite even within the confines of particular mediums. Even something as basic as a pencil has infinite possibilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by mdkd99
https://www.google.co.uk/search?safe....0.xBYxn55pCf8
Near infinite possibilities, sure... And yet a black pencil on white paper still can't do colors by itself nor can it do exactly the same kind of brushstrokes a paintbrush does. It's still limited in what it can do just like Dreams will probably be to some degree. LBP also technically had infinite possibilities on what we could make in it, but it also was super limited in exactly how it could make stuff which is why Dreams is exciting by comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by GribbleGrunger
You could had just told me that you didn't know how far Dreams could be taken and we'll have to wait to see. But anyways I now know at least it's still a case of we'll have to wait until the community gets their hands on it to see the possibilities of the tools, as MM hasn't really shown us non-toy/clay model style characters yet from the sounds of it.
Ok, I'm not certain we're talking about the same thing. Just give me a couple of examples of what you mean so I can better understand. When you say 'beyond toy style' what exactly do you mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Dreamerz
Oh, I have a question for you to twitter GribbleGrunger! Will there be a similar site to LBP.me or a way to queue dreams outside of the game?
As for the animation bits, there have been 3 streams that show "new" things about how dreams handle animation.
1. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/327643720
At 01:16:45 they show keyframes for the skeleton horse, but they don't really show how you interact/set them. Personally I hate the horses walking animation, but don't mind the running animation.
2. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/289478196
At 01:01:24 they show the character walking. This is probably the least toy model version they ever show, but it's still very action figurey. Don't know if this is just because they had to do it within an hour.
3. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/241602333
At 00:25:02 They show the basic animation using mannequins and tweak settings.
Smaller one:
4.https://www.twitch.tv/videos/75426996
At 00:49:13 there is a nice moving astronaut though it seems like its the lbp style where they're oddly anchored only at torso to the global z axis.
To answer your question in short Lord-Dreamerz, no, they have not shown anything regarding animations besides basic techniques. The halloween stream is the first time i had ever seen the keyframes shown. I honestly can't tell you if there are possibilities beyond the clay modeling style as they haven't really shown that many tweaks to the materials but have mentioned things (color, opacity, shine) that could be of use to stray from that style. From what I've seen, clay and cell-shaded will be the easiest styles to pull off.
Edit: Weird, right after I posted this I realized Mm recently posted a job posting on facebook (today) "Come work at Media Molecule! We have several open positions right now, including a Javascript Developer to help bring #DreamsPS4 to life on the web! https://www.mediamolecule.com/jobs"
On rotating with the dualshock:
https://twitter.com/monsterplant/sta...94231765762048
https://twitter.com/monsterplant/sta...97458531860480
On something similar to LBP.me:
https://twitter.com/marcoshealey/sta...83933617000449
On Dream surfing:
https://twitter.com/Peter__Field/sta...53096737476608
Yay! Super glad to hear about the dreams.me or whatever! That Dream surfing answer was a bit confusing, but it seems trivial compared to other features. It sounds like he's saying yes, but I can't tell if he's saying yes to dreamsurfing options or yes to a play a random dream or yes to temporarily stopping the surfing to finish a dream.
Yeah, I found it hard to convey what I meant in such a short amount of words. We know when you Dream surf it splices 3 games together, taking a chapter from one and then a chapter from another and then a chapter from the third before returning to the first again. I don't want to do that because it would break up any atmosphere a creator has put effort into. I want to Dream surf but play each FULL game before automatically moving onto the next. I know you can click on individual games but that takes the randomness (and surprise) out of it a little.Quote:
Originally Posted by koltonaugust
- - - - - - - - - -
Listen from 25:36. That should answer your question I think:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Dreamerz
https://www.gameinformer.com/video-p...ring-questions
On something similar to LBP.me, I came across this a month or so ago. https://indreams.me/
That's interesting, bio. Looks like that could be Dreams' site for levels and communities. I heard they wanted to provide a better site to interact with people outside of the game.
I actually remember seeing that on Resetera. LOL. I forgot ...Quote:
Originally Posted by biorogue
Someone brought up monetization and while on the phone last night with a bud, we laughed our butts off to the thought of lp10’s copied shark levels bombarding the psn store ������
Fingers crossed:
https://twitter.com/Johnee_B/status/1061546113650565122
Haha, no, not these kinds of levels. We meant serious games created in Dreams that could go for 5 bucks or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by L-I-M-I
More Questions:
Is there a way to organize levels that you want to play later, or is it reserved to just a queue and favorites as in LBP?
In regards to the genealogy on objects, is there a way to see the credits for a level? Maybe even percentages of creators objects used in the level? Even further in that regard, can you see the percentages of types of objects? For example say I REALLY like the music in a level, and I want to find the creator of that music, can I find out that 70% of the music is created by, say, mdkd99, 20% by the author, and 10% by, oh look, me?
He's onto me, folks!Quote:
Originally Posted by koltonaugust
Jokes aside though, I don't think it works like that, it's much simpler. Like 'Contributions: Also made by mdkd99 and Koltonaugust'. I'd need to ask though.
In LBP3 you can create multiple playlists and add levels to it. Maybe that's how it works in Dreams too.