Little Big Thief: Lord Bafford [Spotlighted!]

"Tonight Lord Bafford is out of town. The perfect oportunity to steal his precious crystal scepter. I wonder if this is going to be as easy as it seems ..."

I finished my first level. Inspired by my favourite game of all times "Thief" from Looking Glass Studios I try to create something that catches the dark atmosphere but is is still a LBP platformer with some new ideas - a very unique visual style - and a lot of secret areas for those who want to beat the top score.

I would be very happy to read comments from you, good and bad and some construtive critics.

I hope you enjoy the level. Here are some shots I took with my very bad digital camera:

http://www.fjonan.com/lbp/littlebigthief01.jpg
http://www.fjonan.com/lbp/littlebigthief02.jpg
http://www.fjonan.com/lbp/littlebigthief03.jpg
http://www.fjonan.com/lbp/littlebigthief04.jpg
http://www.fjonan.com/lbp/littlebigthief05.jpg

The level has been revised by me several times already. To see what I changed simply look into the comments, I always make a short notion after republishing.

A big THANKS go out to:

Janatacker
Kels22
Yaso and his friends
Ryokuofdeath for a nice icon
everyone at LittleBIGWorkshop who helped me and provided me with inspiration.

Specal thanks go out to feloneouscat and Thrain, who helped me especially lot with giving me in depth critique. Thanks a lot guys.

Edit:

Now with videos on Youtube, even in HD quality, check it out, big thanks to sackboy223. Click on the video twice to go to youtube and you can watch it in HD, it's worth it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPJoP7hdF1A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAlENmOhCrQ

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Update:

A video review by the infamous Beethy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpRo0LEKkeI

A full level, HD video by Chimpanzee (Thanks a lot, dude!):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6m1Wy66L7I

Welcome, Fjonan! :D I'm glad you decided to register here at LBPCentral, I'm sure you'll find the guys to be much more helpful (and talkative) on levels than over at LBW.

I've already reviewed your level over there, but for those wondering, I'll sum it up here as well: This is the only 3D game-themed level I've played that lives up to its source of inspiration in quality.I'm sure others here will like it too. :)

Maybe make a platform that goes out to get into the first hamster wheel. As I had to jump ontop then jump down to get in. This was after a few attempts when I died. The second hamster wheel is very tricky to get through the rotating wheel. Not a bad thing just that it may put people off.
I enjoyed going up the steps in the wheel, keeping up the momentum.
Looks really nice with good original challenges. 4 *.

Hey sny, thanks for your support. I will write my review of your level in this forum, too.

@bindibaji: Thanks for your review. I wanted to rework the wheel car and will do so, soon. I look into the platform thing to make it easier to get into the car.

Your level is very good, a great grapich, many funny gameplay sections, a good story and very good atmosphere. All the level was very well made.
I really enjoyied some parts, like the sectrion where you must stop the electric pistons with the wood cubes :D The details are very curate and you used very well all the materials. The only thing that bored me was the hamster whell, the second part. You go inside the mansion of Lord Baffor, but why you must walk with an hamster wheel in his house? Maybe it was better to add other platform section, or better: some enemies! In a level based on a thief story, there must be some guards :p
The lenght of the level was good, it was overal very funny, and you did a good job!

Overall:
Pros:
+Grapich and Atmosphere

+Gameplay sections

+Good lenght

Cons:
-The hamster wheel, expecially the second in the mansion

-The level needs some enemies :eek:

4/5 stars :hero:

If you can try my level Sack Quest, the link in in the sign. Leave feedbacks ;)

Ok, just played this. First of all, I really liked the level and had fun. The visuals are done well, and I enjoyed the platforming in the first part.

Then there was the wheel.

I get the feeling the hamster wheel COULD be fun if it worked smoothly. I have no problem with the mechanic, but the wheel contraption that the wheel rolls on doesn't have completely round wheels, so it is INCREDIBLY frustrating to work - and actually is difficult to get rolling at all sometimes when it comes to a complete stop.

If you can get this rolling nice and smooth, I think it could be a lot better. Not only that, but if it rolled quicker and picked up the pace it could actually be a lot of fun.

Now, the boss at the end - I thought the boss was going to require some work, but instead I just grabbed the prize and dragged it with the boss following for a few seconds. I kind of expected more out of the boss, but that's more of a subjective opinion - I don't think it affected my rating of the level in the end.

Nice job!

Dante95: The freaking wheel. I get very different opinions on that. Some like it a lot, some find it not suiting at all. I fully understand that it does not fit into the Manor concept at all, but I thought it was a lot of fun to play (still think so) and explaining everything is not what I could achieve to my and everyones satisfaction. For example why do you have to go down and deep to get into the manor? Why is there so many gas in the cellar? Who the hell would build a ramp and electrical stompers in the sewers etc.

I know its a wide shot, not everybody thinks it fits and I am aware of it.

The enemies, yes! I know exactly the point but - believe it or not - I simply could not create an enemy, that suited my needs. I was only able to buy the MGS pack a few days ago, a week after I published the level, and there are some nice things I can use (a user named feloneouscat had extracted some sensors so I can make enemies "see" you when you are in front of them etc.) to make suiting enemies and I will most definately add those in future Thief levels. I do not want to completely throw over Lord Bafford and think, that I have learned my lesson. To cram in some guards now would not fit what I had in mind, there is simply no place for them to bother the player except for maybe 1 or 2 spots.

That the platforming got a little short ... yeah ... it was really late when I noticed that. I had so many ideas in mind I wanted to realize that I made the beginners mistake to not spread them evenly over the level with some basic gameplay (platforming) in between.

CCubbage: I will look into the second wheel section. The problem I have is, if I make it too smooth, there is no challenge at all. It is possible to keep the wheel rolling well through the level, but you have to time your jumps right. But for one player it is hard some times, that is right.

The Boss at the end. THAT one is my biggest issue with the level. The Thief Series I based the level on offers the player a lot of possibilities to do things or not. A boss fight would not fit into that concept at all, so I wanted to keep the boss as optional as possible. To make some kind of fight or stand off would simply not follow what I have in mind with "Thief". A Thief would most definatley run away and not face the boss. This is the reason I build the boss that way. The thing is, if he catches you, the scepter dissappears and you have to "go home" without it, but do not fail the level. If you want to ace it, you can leave the scepter and not face the guard at all.

What I did not right, was the chase, it is too short, it is too easy or too hard, depending on how good the player understood what was happening and there is no real sweat in bringing the scepter out, maybe I have to make the chase more challengin in one part, and more obvious in what is going on on the other part. Stretching it, showing the player "Hey look out, he is coming to get you!" and make some kind of parcourt you have to get the scepter through. I will rework it, thanks for your input.

Thanks a lot for your reviews, this is what keeps me making the level better and collecting ideas for my next one (which I already started, to make a sequel to this one). I will look into your levels as soon as I get back to my playstation.

In all honesty, even though it seemed short and easy I thought the boss at the end was fun and probably won't result in lower ratings.

I'm going to make a suggestion below, then I PROMISE I won't belabor the point anymore. It's your level and you should definately make it the way you like it.

The wheel - at least TRY this yourself and on a few people to see if it works - make the smaller wheels round so the contraption is responsive, then make the big spinning wheel go faster to add challenge. Also, in the first area you could add maybe a gas obstacle to that one to add a little challenge.

If you're trying make it challenging, adding frustration is not the way to go. Unresponsive controls is definately not a good mechanism for adding challenge. However, if the wheel is FUN but challenging, you will get much higher ratings on your level.

Ok, now I won't mention it again - I promise.

No no, I am happy for any ideas. The Wheel ... i worked the whole evening on it yesterday to come up with a better manouverable one, and believe me i do play the level myself and try things out and have my friends try it too.

The first big spinning wheel, do you mean the one with the electry plugs on it? If I make it faster, it gets a lot harder to get past it.

And it is not that easy to just make the small wheels of the Wheel Car round, they have to be light as well and go well with the big hoop. It is a really tricky thing - this Wheel Car - and it makes me sad that I did not quite pull it off as I would have liked.

Maybe I have to build in some motors that help the player controlling it to manouver it indirectly but this could bite me in my behind once I have more than one player. By the way, playing the level with 2 players is a lot more fun, as usual. :)

And ... I did not add frustration on purpose. Just to mention it :P

I understand. I'm not trying to be critical, just saying for 1 player on this part it's immensily frustrating trying to get it rolling, so I'm trying to be constructive and think about how it could be corrected. Honestly... I personally don't play 2 player too often so I judge levels based on 1 player. There were a few times where I just couldn't get it to roll.

I was referring to the first wheel that you roll on top of the 2 wheel cart. You roll it to the right and a platform lifts the wheel up to the next section. Here was my exact experience with the whole area:

Got on the wheel and started it rolling. Thought "hey, this is kind of cool". Then I realized how difficult it was to get to roll to the right. Got it near the wall and it quit rolling. Thought that was as far as it would roll, but nothing was happening. I thought "hey, maybe I'm supposed to be on TOP of the wheel". Killed myself and respawned another one and spent a while trying to get on top. Went back to getting in the wheel after a while. Tried over and over again. Almost gave up and left the level. Finally I got it to roll to the right far enough so that the platform lifted me up (I thought - oh THATS whats supposed to happen). Got to the next part where I had to roll it under the big spinning wheel. Had a LOT of difficulty rolling it. Got it close several times and the big wheel pushed me to the left. With great difficulty I managed to get it to roll but it kept getting crushed and I kept dying. Lost all of my lives. Went through the entire level AGAIN. Got up to the same point. Got in between the spokes on the big wheel. It pushed my wheel to the right off the cart so I died in gas. Several more times tried it, and FINALLY got through it.

All in all, it took me about half an hour to get through this section. Now, keep in mind - I'm one of those players who tends to make it through the most difficult levels pretty effortlessly. I truly understand the weight of multiple players could help in the wheel sections, and if that is your preference that's fine - but you may want to put a disclaimer to that affect.

OMG that is awful. No I did not design it for 2 players. I am astounded about your problems. It shows me that I am so blind for the difficulty ... I do not have real problems in your described section at all, honestly, maybe I got the timing in my blood after all the creating and trying.

Thanks A LOT for trying so hard, I guess that is where a lot of players just gave up. Mh ... I think I will try my idea with a motor enhanced Wheel Car, that helps indirectly (without the player noticing) and make it obvious somehow that you have to ride the wheel up to the wall completely. Maybe even work out the drawing on the whall showing that you are supposed to be IN the wheel and not ontop of it.

Thanks, your description helped me a lot.

Ok: I loved the level... Some really fun stuff.

My notes:

Right after the long slide, your sack just goes sliding right to the electric death stompers. Because of the camera, you are not sure if you what to do. The railing you have there didn't stop me at all. Not sure if it is supposed to.

I thought the electrical death stompers were very cool.

I did notice that I could see radios some time after the hampster wheel section. I don't know if that was your intention.

The radios are visibile on purpose cause i think they look nice. Thanks for playing it. The thing with the camera after the slide is this: I wanted you to be able to see the grabable drop hanging from the ceiling so you know when to jump to get it (it is a secret area up there where you can get some points). So I needed the camera to give you a chance. I don't see how I could prevent you from falling into the gas or under the stompers, some players do, some not so I just think I leave it that way but thanks a lot for the input, I try to prevent such things in the future.

What did you think about the finish? Did you get what you had to do at the end?

I am not sure what you mean? I got to the point platform... I think there was a secret area off to the side, but there was nothing preventing me from going to the point platform.

BTW, I liked the half burning spinning elevator things... But they are possible to circumvent by just dropping down carefully.

Yeah, I know this is part of the concept :) but this way you will not get all the points in the small rooms at the side. Maybe I add another secret area that you only get if do NOT drop down.

At the end there is a guard who does not want you to get the scepter.

BTW: I made the radios dissappear, you where right, it looks stupid on something like grass.

Ah, yes... I remember that part.

:)

I'll play it later tonight, when I am in front of my PS3.

You can give me feedback on my level "Save Die Reload!", user: CarlsenJeppe.

My thread: http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9714

Ok I will :)

The Thief games are one of my favourite series of all time to. I was looking forward to playing the level. Here's what I thought as I play

+ Nice visuals at the start, i like the houses, they set the scene well, the sewers look good also.
+ Like the platforming you've got the level, the rotating fire platforms moving up and down in the sewers in particular.
+ No problems with the wheel. I actually enjoyed these sections, especially where you had to use momentum to get the wheel up and over obstacles, nice use of the physics.
+ Some nicely hidden point bubbles, I love exploring levels trying to find them

- The electrified barrells in the cellar did'nt really fit theme.
- Proximity switches visable, you've mentioned this above, but I prefer them hidden :)
- The boss, by the time I had read the text, he'd killed me, and took off with the sceptre, I just strolled out the level to the end.

Good level all in all. You had some nicely designed platforming elements. The level used good materials that kept to the theme and it was nicely detailed in places. I liked the wheel sections, using your momentum on the last sections was a nice idea.

I could only find two little nitpicks that were wrong with it, and the boss, which I never really saw, he was off and away in a flash :)

I'd like to see more of these made, it was an enjoyable play.

**** and hearted

I've played it. It was okay.. Some notes:

- Make it easier to crash the wall with the swinging block. Maybe somehow just release the swinging block, instead of grabbing it and dragging it around.

- I found the part where I had to get over obstacles by running inside a large wheel to drag on for a bit too long and repetitive.

- The boss: Like Grantos mentioned, I did not really experience it. While reading the dialouge pop up, I got killed, and when I respawned the boss was gone.

Keep up the work, check out my level "Save Die Reload!", user: "CarlsenJeppe"