Gamer Named "Little Gray" Actually "Beats" World Of Warcraft

[s3xNstilettos]

I don't agree with this...
Playing video games is great as a hobby, and is usually best kept that way. Of course, if you're job is to play videogames (be it a tester, or if you're good enough gaining your money through competitions) then that's fine and this argument is invalid.

There's one major thing wrong with what you are saying... people such as top athletes, top doctors/surgeons and others of that nature do have a purpose, and that is making this world we live in a better place. The athletes bring entertainment to this world (unfortuanatly there are thugs who take things too seriously and fight over sport... but thats pathetic and on their hands), the doctors SAVE LIVES, and heck... the poor people who pick up rubbish in the street for a living make the world a more hygienic place. The only reason they of course get paid so little for an important and needed job is that it's a job anyone could do, and requires little knowledge and little skill. But that's irrelevant.

People who play video games generally don't serve any greater purpose to the world. You ask what use does the ability to kick a ball as a whole serve outside the realm of soccer? Indeed it doesn't have a use, but that doesn't matter because that's his job. The skill is obviously important for is job and earns him alot of money so there is a practical use. On the other hand, what use does it have to be able to fight off demons and elves in a virtual reality? I can't really see any. Sure, he could sell his character and earn a few bob (nowhere near worth the hours he put in), but if he was going to do that he might as well get a trainer (or whatever the program thing is, a mate in uni used it) to play the game for him while he is out making something of himself and then sell this character in the evening once it is top level. Or just play it himself (say a few hours each evening) and do this.
The problem is the guy who has beat this game must have a poor social life and not a very good job (if any). We know there are people out there who play WoW non stop for months on end and never complete it, so how is it this guy has? Clearly the hours he has put in this game must be insane.

You also started off by saying rewards in life are pointless. I suppose they are really in a certain extent, because when I used to skateboard and ollie'd my first 7 stair set I felt a huge achievement, something I also get out of video games too. However, saying the jobs people do are pointless is quite ignorant. Jobs aren't in this world because we as a human race decided it is fun to suffer (lolwut), but because jobs are needed to make the world run. It seems that you need to open your eyes a bit in that respect. To justify someone who has wasted many hours of their life on a game machine by saying that everything else is pointless so what he's doing is fine is a very naive thing to say.
To say that 'the only thing that makes it worthwhile is the feeling of self-worth you get from it, even if it's all just an illusion' is very selfish. It comes off that you aren't much of a people's person (I'm not saying you aren't, in fact I'm led to believe you are from your time on LBPC here ). There's a brilliant Friends episode which actually is based on that sentence, in a way, and shows that every good action you ever do is because it makes you feel better. Why are you a doctor? Because it makes YOU feel good that you saved someones life. Apparently there is no selfless good deed. It's a funny episode, but in the end of the day you also make other people feel better and that is what is important (as I stated before). Making this world a better place. Innit, lol.

And you're argument on WoW being real just makes no sense, to me anyway. Of course WoW is real. It's a real game. But that doesn't stop it from being just that. A virtual reality and real life are TOTALLY DIFFERENT. In games there are no real consequences for you actions. Okay so you're playing GTA:IV and you have to decide whether to kill Dwayne or Playboy X. There are consequences for your actions in game. But where it's different is that if you make a mistake... you can just do it again. In real life there are no second lives, and no turning back time.

I am sorry if I seem like a total **** from all this, but there's some things in life I feel quite strongly about. Don't get me wrong, I love videogames, and I play them alot. I've spent alot of money on them, and will continue to do so. But what it must be kept at is a hobby, and not an addiction. There is a distinct difference between the two and many people don't realise when the two have intertwined for them. This guy seems like a prime example.

I will actually argue against a few of my points myself lol. I mentioned that videogames bring only self worthy satisfaction unlike real life. Now one marvellous game has actually changed that. LittleBigPlanet (ofcourse there were others before like GarrysMod but this is the biggest mainstream one yet) actually brings satisfaction to others through the sharing of levels, and is truly a fantastic game. It brings happiness and people together. For some it has brought fame. So this is one of those exceptions. Having my level be mentioned on the sony US blog brought me a huge amount of achievement. However, I still stand by when saying that its best kept at a hobby and not an addiction.

I doubt anyone will read this fully through but at least its out of my system :P

This shows you didn't get what he was saying, and yes I did read it fully.

He didn't say jobs are pointless.

It's a philosophy referring to life in general and what people do to spend their time living it. You get nothing for anything you do in life except a feeling of self-worth, whether you saved a life or completed a hard game 100%.

Now if I had the opportunity to save a life, would I feel better about that then accomplishing an amazing gaming feat? Of course I would. But that isn't the point.

And you said athletes make the world a better place. No they don't, not any more than a videogame would. They are both forms of games for the purpose of entertainment. There is professional gaming just the same as their are professional leagues in sports.

And just for the record, games do serve a purpose. Video games are good exercise for the mind/mentality, but at the sacrifice of physical exercise. However people can maintain a balance between both. Once upon a time researchers believed that gaming served no purpose and was bad kids. However it's been easily proven to improve motor skills, and in certain games intelligence. I got into philosophy and ancient history from playing RPGs.

Oh, and even though games are simulations, a lot of those simulations imitate the real thing. Someone that doesn't even know how to fly a plane could easily being in a serious situation where the pilot isn't cnscious and he/she must try and land the plane saving everyone's lives, and they might say use what they know from a game that simulates real flying.

Also, the army uses video games in their training for reasons I've already given. Research it if you don't believe.

So games do serve a purpose.

Everything in life serves a purpose. But to put a value on those purposes is pointless in the end.

The problem is that some people aren't looking at the bigger picture.

[ryryryan•]

This shows you didn't get what he was saying, and yes I did read it fully.

He didn't say jobs are pointless.

But you didn't quite get what I was saying either... my conclusion was that videogames should be kept to a hobby. The guy we are talking about here has indeed achieved an amazing feat of completing WoW, but it will always be looked down upon by most people. Why? Because think of what he could of accomplished in the real world in that time to make his way of life better! He could of earned money to make his life more comfortable, assuming he isn't loaded, and if he is there is so much more to life than just money anyway, he could always do something else.
[argues self] Now this is all lovely talking about what he could of done but lets face it, who really goes out there every day and gives it their all? People who are actually somewhere, and to be honest there's not many people like that in this world (I'm certainly not for example). Anyway I've trailed off again. This guy deserves no awards, because he already has them. The little bars being full on that screen is the most rewarding thing for him, as he is the first person to ever do so.
And I do think it's sad. One of the greatest things in life is friends and socializing. Face to face. I'm all up for facebook and talking to people online (I do have a few friends I game with, some I've never met and that's all dandy) but when one only has the internet, nomatter who's online, you can still feel very very lonely. I know I have at times when my friends aren't about. I suppose what I'm trying to say is - the kid (man?) needs to get out more.
If he does - great. I don't know him, I don't know his way of life, but I've already said how it seems he's an addict.

It's a philosophy referring to life in general and what people do to spend their time living it. You get nothing for anything you do in life except a feeling of self-worth, whether you saved a life or completed a hard game 100%.

With a job you get money. Which gives you the ability to live a comfortable life. A videogame doesn't give this. There's quite a clear distinction. The philosophy is just, well, a philosophy. If you can get at what I'm saying...

Now if I had the opportunity to save a life, would I feel better about that then accomplishing an amazing gaming feat? Of course I would. But that isn't the point.

Indeed.

And you said athletes make the world a better place. No they don't, not any more than a videogame would. They are both forms of games for the purpose of entertainment. There is professional gaming just the same as their are professional leagues in sports.

I was referring to jobs, not athletes as individuals as making the world a better place >.> It cannot be denied that jobs make this world better. Maybe some don't, but in general they really do. This really isn't part of my argument as a whole but oh well. Now it's on the table... lol. And as I stated at the beginning, my arguments are invalid against professional gaming.[/quote]

And just for the record, games do serve a purpose. Video games are good exercise for the mind/mentality, but at the sacrifice of physical exercise. However people can maintain a balance between both. Once upon a time researchers believed that gaming served no purpose and was bad kids. However it's been easily proven to improve motor skills, and in certain games intelligence. I got into philosophy and ancient history from playing RPGs.

I've never disagreed with this. However, video games are good exercise in moderation, which is my point all along. Looking at a screen all day is very bad for your mind, both physically and mentally.
But yeah, I have got into things I never thought I would through gaming, I agree, but this isn't part of what I'm trying to say.

Oh, and even though games are simulations, a lot of those simulations imitate the real thing. Someone that doesn't even know how to fly a plane could easily being in a serious situation where the pilot isn't cnscious and he/she must try and land the plane saving everyone's lives, and they might say use what they know from a game that simulates real flying.

That's an extreme example but yes I see your point.

Also, the army uses video games in their training for reasons I've already given. Research it if you don't believe.

So games do serve a purpose.

Oh I've read plenty on it I did say that people don't generally serve a purpose because there are exceptions. But let's face it, most of the people who play videogames are on an RPG or an FPS or whatever which really isn't doing much for them.

Everything in life serves a purpose. But to put a value on those purposes is pointless in the end.

Well, I disagree. If I was to compare the purpose of someone with a mundane job (say standing in a production line of bottles checking each one is made correctly) compared to someone on Modern Warfare 2 about to save the world from nuclear disaster... I'd say this bottle guy has more of an importance HOWEVER, I wouldn't say some guy at the top of a business as a manager is more important than this bottle guy. Sure, in practicality of course he is, but a job is a job and I treat everyone as equals. All opinion there, no facts. Anyway all this job talk is so irrelevant. Just saying lol.

The problem is that some people aren't looking at the bigger picture.

Errr that's my point exactly xD

[Kern•]

Right, My two cents in a nutshell, Hes payin' for the game, Is it his fault if he wants to get some achievement out of it? its like saying creating in LBP is pointless because you feel happy when you get lots of hearts on your level, all im saying is, If you paid for something and it makes you happy Do it!

[Hibbsi]

Wow, this is getting a bit heated
Of course I missed what most people would have talked about and went straight to the pictures (ADD kicked in...)

[qrtda235566]

You also started off by saying rewards in life are pointless. I suppose they are really in a certain extent, because when I used to skateboard and ollie'd my first 7 stair set I felt a huge achievement, something I also get out of video games too. However, saying the jobs people do are pointless is quite ignorant. Jobs aren't in this world because we as a human race decided it is fun to suffer (lolwut), but because jobs are needed to make the world run. It seems that you need to open your eyes a bit in that respect. To justify someone who has wasted many hours of their life on a game machine by saying that everything else is pointless so what he's doing is fine is a very naive thing to say.

You know how little kids always ask "why"? They ask why until you get to a point where it's like "Gee, I guess there really is no reason". Jobs are pointless. They just help people make money, or they help people, or they help the world, but what good does that do? In the vast scheme of things, we're nothing. To paraphrase Prince of Persia, we're just a grain of sand in the desert. If you remove one grain of sand, the desert will continue on as always. I think you need to open your eyes to the fact that the Universe doesn't need Earth. If Earth exploded right now, the Universe would go on unaffected.

I guess I shouldn't have chosen that sports analogy, so what about climbing Mount Everest? It certainly isn't for entertainment, and it isn't to help the world, unless it's for charity or something, so what's the point? I'll tell you what: self accomplishment, much like this guy from playing World at Warcraft. He's the best at World at Warcraft. I don't understand what's wrong with striving to be the best at something, whether it be picking your nose or eating your poop.

I am sorry if I seem like a total **** from all this, but there's some things in life I feel quite strongly about. Don't get me wrong, I love videogames, and I play them alot. I've spent alot of money on them, and will continue to do so. But what it must be kept at is a hobby, and not an addiction. There is a distinct difference between the two and many people don't realise when the two have intertwined for them. This guy seems like a prime example.

Addiction and dedication are almost synonymous, aren't they? Each have different connotations, but they are almost the same. I love music. I make music every day. I can practice for hours and hours on end. Does that make me dedicated or addicted?

I guess the difference between dedication and addiction is that dedication is something that you push yourself to do and an addiction is something you feel like you have to do, but I honestly feel like I need to play music when I get the urge. I think we can't control doing these things we like so much.

Drug addiction, well that's a different story.

[ryryryan•]

lol. Yeah you do have a point, but also think that if everyone thought like that, so if all the grains of sand were taken out of the desert... then where's the desert?? Teamwork is needed I don't think people need to open their eyes that much and look at it in the scope of the universe... cause it really wouldn't get you anywhere. I mean, nearly every human, in the scope of the world, won't even reach outside of our planet. Infact it would be silly to think at such an open state. People need to have an open mind while staying as a pretty down to earth person, as the saying goes.

And yeah that is a perfect example, as there is nothing out of it for anyone else. I'm sure he'd do other things with his life too, just like I'm sure (well, more towards hope) that this guy who completed WoW does other things with his life. I just don't feel that staring at a screen all day is healthy. I still do it myself, but I also have a good social life, which may be questionable about this WoW guy. Oh well in the end of the day it's opinions, some will salute, some will do the opposite.

[Kern•]

1 grain can wear down a mountain

[Alex™]

Oh, i forgot to mention... WoW is ****.... So not only has he wasted his life, he's done it on a really bad game. /fail

[s3xNstilettos]

@Ryan:

Yeah, I did get what you were saying as you just repeated it and my reply was to that.

The point is no one in life is more important than someone else. The person that saved someone's life is worth no more than someone playing a video game or the homeless man down the block.

They are all people living a life. In the long run you don't know what the results are, and even right then at that moment.

Everything most people think they know comes from what they hear and see in life from other people and their surroundings.

But some people think outside the box, the wise-person. But back to what I said earlier the wise-person is not worth more than those that allow themselves to be programmed by others, their surroundings, books, etc, because wise or not we all arrive at the same point.

No matter what we do with our time living we all end up at the same point. You can't put a value on things because the value is the same no matter what you do.

And as for the things people do, unless you know everything (which is impossible for a human to know), then you do not know the chain of events or results of any given action, whether that action is playing a game or saving a life. It could have bad or good results, but regardless of whether the results are good or bad, those results are still something happening during your time living.

Also, you use a lot of stereotypes. That is another thing that is wrong.

As for your RPG comment, all genres of games have good results, even the FPSs, but any given thing can have bad results also.

Anyways, take murder for example. Is murdering someone wrong? Or is it a natural part of life? Sure, I think it's wrong, but that is because it is what I've been taught. But I know it is a natural thing much like it is in the animal kingdom. People murder a lot. Those animals that are butchered to be meat on someone's plate. That is murder. A human's life is no more valuable than an animals. People and animals kill out of survival.

However, I am glad that order is kept in most of the world.

Or what about people that say that song is a bad song? No, there is no such thing as a bad song because there will always be people out there that like it. Therefor the song is only bad to that person, and enjoyable to another.

Or take curse words? Are they really bad words or just words? I mean somehow when you combine an f, a u, a c, and a k it magically forms a bad word. That is simply because a human put a meaning behind it. What is a rock? Sure, humans called it a rock, but what is it really called? Or is it called anything?

School is another good example. Many would say school is a good thing. But school does just as much harm as it does good. It's not a safe place to be, which results in a lot of drop-outs. I really admire people that drop-out and forge their own path and become successful in what they do. Graduating is no better than dropping out. They both can have good or bad results and what you do after is again something you do to spend your time until death.

And for another example, being the president of the country is no more important than playing a video game. If you are somehow living, regardless of how you're doing it, then you are spending your time until your turn to die comes. Even someone saved by paramedics is only having their life prolonged, but eventually you can't be saved. And what happens next no one knows.

Anyways, here is something to think about . . .

If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

There's some food for thought. One of my favorite famous quotes of all time.

[KoRnDawwg]

*sneaks in...*

...I agree with the South Park...

*...sneaks out...*

[rtm223]

I love that episode of south park. What's even funnier is that I loved it before playing WoW, then after I'd played WoW I actualyl enjoyed it more, even though I was technically the butt of the joke

TBH, spending that much time on a single game is kinda pointless, especially when you consider he must've done many of the early quests just for the sake of doing them when he was at a much higher level. i.e. there would be no in-game reason for doing them, no XP, no quest items; there would be no challenge in them either. Other than ticking them off your list, there is no motivation for achieving them.

I can't understand how anyone can actually gain any enjoyment from that TBH - it's more akin to a to-do list of household chores than a hobby.

*looks at list of household chores*
*sighs*
*switches off LittleBigPlanet*

[Alex™]

@Ryan:

Yeah, I did get what you were saying as you just repeated it and my reply was to that.

The point is no one in life is more important than someone else. The person that saved someone's life is worth no more than someone playing a video game or the homeless man down the block.

They are all people living a life. In the long run you don't know what the results are, and even right then at that moment.

Everything most people think they know comes from what they hear and see in life from other people and their surroundings.

But some people think outside the box, the wise-person. But back to what I said earlier the wise-person is not worth more than those that allow themselves to be programmed by others, their surroundings, books, etc, because wise or not we all arrive at the same point.

No matter what we do with our time living we all end up at the same point. You can't put a value on things because the value is the same no matter what you do.

And as for the things people do, unless you know everything (which is impossible for a human to know), then you do not know the chain of events or results of any given action, whether that action is playing a game or saving a life. It could have bad or good results, but regardless of whether the results are good or bad, those results are still something happening during your time living.

Also, you use a lot of stereotypes. That is another thing that is wrong.

As for your RPG comment, all genres of games have good results, even the FPSs, but any given thing can have bad results also.

Anyways, take murder for example. Is murdering someone wrong? Or is it a natural part of life? Sure, I think it's wrong, but that is because it is what I've been taught. But I know it is a natural thing much like it is in the animal kingdom. People murder a lot. Those animals that are butchered to be meat on someone's plate. That is murder. A human's life is no more valuable than an animals. People and animals kill out of survival.

However, I am glad that order is kept in most of the world.

Or what about people that say that song is a bad song? No, there is no such thing as a bad song because there will always be people out there that like it. Therefor the song is only bad to that person, and enjoyable to another.

Or take curse words? Are they really bad words or just words? I mean somehow when you combine an f, a u, a c, and a k it magically forms a bad word. That is simply because a human put a meaning behind it. What is a rock? Sure, humans called it a rock, but what is it really called? Or is it called anything?

School is another good example. Many would say school is a good thing. But school does just as much harm as it does good. It's not a safe place to be, which results in a lot of drop-outs. I really admire people that drop-out and forge their own path and become successful in what they do. Graduating is no better than dropping out. They both can have good or bad results and what you do after is again something you do to spend your time until death.

And for another example, being the president of the country is no more important than playing a video game. If you are somehow living, regardless of how you're doing it, then you are spending your time until your turn to die comes. Even someone saved by paramedics is only having their life prolonged, but eventually you can't be saved. And what happens next no one knows.

Anyways, here is something to think about . . .

If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

There's some food for thought. One of my favorite famous quotes of all time.

Of course it does. Just because no one can hear it doesn't mean it doesn't make a sound. Seeing as sound is created through the vibration of air, for it not to mka e a sound it would have to make no impact whatsoever, or the air would vibrate. It would have to slice perfectly through the air, or the air would make a noise because i would vibrate etc. etc.

Just because no one hears it doesn't mean the laws of physics and sound change.

----------------

Now playing: Killswitch Engage - Rose Of Sharyn via FoxyTunes

[ffha]

Of course it does. Just because no one can hear it doesn't mean it doesn't make a sound. Seeing as sound is created through the vibration of air, for it not to mka e a sound it would have to make no impact whatsoever, or the air would vibrate. It would have to slice perfectly through the air, or the air would make a noise because i would vibrate etc. etc.

Just because no one hears it doesn't mean the laws of physics and sound change.

The vibrations of the air reaches our ears, which transform the input to electric pulses, which are translated into 'sound' by our brain.
(Contrary to what most people think, we actually hear/see/taste/feel with our brain.)

No, a falling tree does not produce sound. A falling tree vibrates the air around it.

[qrtda235566]

1. the sensation produced by stimulation of the organs of hearing by vibrations transmitted through the air or other medium.


Technically, a tree falling in the forest with no one being around to hear it does not make a sound. This definition from Dictionary.com.

[chezhead]

If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
I say the trees plot against us when we aren't around.
They whisper to each other plotting our demise.

[qrtda235566]

*sneaks in...*

...I agree with the South Park...

*...sneaks out...*

I thought the South Park episode was hilarious because it did what I think in every sandbox game. I hectically try to complete all these missions, then when I finish them, I exhale a sigh of relief and say "Now, I can finally play the game." It's the same odd mentality that I have sometimes.

[rtm223]

So the "speed of sound"... explain that one chaps, if you're feeling clever if it's not sound until it reaches our ears, then how do we have a speed of sound in the air. Also, explain the term "sound engineer" - he'd better not be messing around inside my head!!

The actual reason why you'd get a "no" from berkeley's (sp?) question is rather more metaphysical than technical. Personally I feel he was being a smarmy git, but the underlying philosophy is quite interesting. The idea of perception of sound vs the actual sound is exactly what the whole thing is about. Looking up a (probably quite erroneous and at best over-simplified) definition in an abridged dictionary misses the entire point...

[s3xNstilettos]

See, there's my point.

Every single person that answered that question failed. And why is that?

The wise person knows that can't be answered.

While everyone else will try and answer it based on how they've been programmed/taught, whether it be from school, a book, tv, or others in general or any observations.

It's much the same as how the unwise person believes time exists, but the wise person knows time is an illusion.

That tree question happens to be the most famous question in philosophy, and the question in and of itself is the ultimate example of why no one can truely know anything.

[Jagrevi]

Just looking in here at the end of this thread (IE, the last post), so if it's in some context that I'm unaware of from previous posts, please correct me ...

That tree question happens to be the most famous question in philosophy, and the question in and of itself is the ultimate example of why no one can truely know anything.

The tree in the forest thing ... I actually believe that needs to be updated. Because scientifically, yes - it creates a soundwave, based on how we define what a soundwave is, and we could hypothetical detect and confirm it without ever hearing it.

The essence of it is good, but the phrasing of it is arguably a bit obsolete now-a-days. (Much like the "Chicken and the Egg", by the way - it was the egg, by a huge gap of time)

Personally, I think a better version of the question may be to ponder the difference between a universe with no living things (now, past, or ever) alive to witness it (a "dead" universe), and no universe at all, and see if you can attribute any more value to one than the other.

Don't get me wrong, I'll all for Socrates and "knowing that you know nothing". It's just that in a day and age that we know a bit more about the physical world, we should probably choose new "proofs" of our ignorance.

[qrtda235566]

See, there's my point.

Every single person that answered that question failed. And why is that?

The wise person knows that can't be answered.

While everyone else will try and answer it based on how they've been programmed/taught, whether it be from school, a book, tv, or others in general or any observations.

It's much the same as how the unwise person believes time exists, but the wise person knows time is an illusion.

That tree question happens to be the most famous question in philosophy, and the question in and of itself is the ultimate example of why no one can truely know anything.

Okay, this is getting ridiculously off topic. Extremely ridiculously off topic. How did we come to this tree thing, anyway?

I guess it really depends on your definition of sound. It would produce soundwaves, and if that's what you mean by "making sound" then yes, it would make a sound. If you mean that you sound as in the sense, no, you do not sense the tree falling.

Define "make a sound" and I can give you an answer. That "philosophical" question, to me, is stupid. It's like "If there's a medium-rare steak sitting at the dinner table and no one is there to eat it, does it have a taste?" Well, of course it has a taste, silly. You can't taste it though, because you aren't there. If you were there, it you could taste it, and it's my understanding that things don't have a taste just when I enter the room because a lot of other people say they taste things as well.

You could go to an extreme and say that flavor and sound might be controlled by little invisible imps who preform mischief when we aren't around, twisting time and warping reality, but that would mean you got rid of all logic.

Does a tape recorder count as someone there to hear the sound? Is the tree in space? Falling doesn't constitute making a sound. There's not a problem with trying to answer. It's just that the question is too broad.

"It's much the same as how the unwise person believes time exists, but the wise person knows time is an illusion."

So you define wisdom, huh? That seems a bit smug of you, but whatever. Time is an illusion? Really? What do you mean "time"? I'm pretty sure time needs to exist. It may not be fixed, but it does exist. It's just the flow from event to event.

Okay, no one can "know" anything for sure, but that's where logic steps in. It's up to you to have enough sense to know that there aren't little invisible imps controlling time and space while you're away. While it's a possibility, it's also retarded.