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  1. #121

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    Jeeees... i can't believe this thread has grown so quickly. oh and one word before i give my opinion: PARAGRAPHS!

    i'll keep it short because i'm exhausted after reading just 25% of this. MM picks are not meant for everyone. unless you honestly believe that MM have a hot line into your brain and can withdraw all of your personal tastes, artistic likes or gameplay preferences. it's meant to represent the community as a whole, not cater to a certain demographic and i think it's actually doing that better now than it has ever done.

    this reminds me of the headaches i get from threads on the weekly PSN updates. some bemoan the updates for not having particular games, some complain that there's not enough, while some are beside themselves with joy over the inclusion of exactly what they wanted. we as gamers have grown a little greedy over the years and have forgotten why the PS brand was so great, 'Diversity'. this is why a certain other console sells millions of a certain FPS and TPS. it's because THAT company cater to the audience that bought that console for those two games. this is a mistake that Sony have never made and will never make and the reason why MM picks are PERFECT the way they are.

    so if you suddenly feel obliged to complain about one week that doesn't suit you, try stepping outside of yourself for one moment and consider other peoples tastes... and just have patience. diversity comes at a cost, but it serves us better in the long run.

    Thank you so much for the time you spend on our community, StevenI. You are doing brilliantly
    Last edited by GribbleGrunger; 03-23-2012 at 02:53 AM.
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  2. #122

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    I guess this thread is taking a tentative step in the right direction...I'm not going to assume anything right now. And yes, I am typing in paragraphs.
    Well, I might as well add my opinion. StevenI has done a lot of good, obviously. However, your point, GribbleGrunger, is a perfect springboard into my next point. If you look at the comments and reviews for Sackboy's Quest For Lucky Charms (look, I know I am mentioning this level a lot, but bear with me), as PPp_Killer pointed out, they aren't that swell. The community as a whole, or at least the 90% who don't use the forums, as RoDRiGo-FiLiPiNo pointed out in his top rated review, actually believe that there is a standard for what is Mm pick worthy, even if that is untrue. So, if the community is dissatisfied and disappointed with the pick, then the pick doesn't really represent the community. Even if the community is operating on false premises, it still is their belief. By the way, I do not think that Sackboy's Quest For Lucky Charms is a bad level. If were to review it, I would give it 3 stars out of 5, which is a neutral from me. It's pretty good, but far below the community's standards.

    Oh, some people are saying that if we were to implement quality control for the Mm picks, then only the big creators will have the picks. I can honestly say that I believe this to be untrue, and that many creators with less hearts than me (whose heart level compared to the big creators is quite puny). For example: Crystal Defenders, Sackfox 2, Vikin 3D, the list goes on.

    Hope I didn't make anybody mad...the thread is in a fragile state right now.

  3. #123
    Sack No. 10,000 Shadowriver's Avatar
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    Hmmm how you would see that quality control being implemented?
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  4. #124
    Can I haz bamboo? Ungreth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowriver View Post
    Hmmm how you would see that quality control being implemented?
    I guess a criteria of benchmark standards might be a start. Take Lucky Charms as an example since lets face it, thats the level that really sparked all the contoversy.

    It's easy to see why people are getting so annoyed that a man who produced a very scruffy, underdeveloped and broken level has been given a springboard to success while other creators who have poured blood, sweat and tears into producing material of an exceptional standard get overlooked.

    I thought the pick was a reasonable choice under the assumption that it was made by a very young kid, since each level should be taken on merit of the expected capabilities of the creators age group (you don't expect the Mona Lisa from a 7 year old). However this guy is 31 years old, and produced the equivalent of this...



    Now I agree that the hatred towards the creator is totally unjustified since he most likely never asked for an Mm pick and probably doesn't even want exposure of this magnitude, but whether Mm picks is just "levels that Mm liked" or not, the fact is that the community has come to expect a high standard of quality and innovation. Rather than expecting the community to just accept these substandard levels that were probably chosen because they gave someone at Mm a quick giggle, perhaps the controversy over this means it's time for Mm to re-evaluate the role and significance of Mm picks and adapt to what the community wants...a showcase for exceptional quality, must play levels. The community is the "customer" after all.

    I don't know why I'm even getting involved in this discussion since I don't often play the Mm picks anyway. I guess I just feel some sympathy towards the OP who has been given an unreasonably hard time about raising what seemed to me like a valid concern, and I'd just like to say...well...maybe he has a point.


  5. #125

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    Well, the new Mm picks have come, and while I haven't played them yet, I can say that via the reviews...StevenI did a pretty good job. I may suspect that there are some "very good but not excellent" levels in there, but I'm not as worried about that as I was earlier. The reason why I started this thread was because when Mm picked Sackboy's Quest For Lucky Charms, I feared that it might become a trend, with Mm picking mediocre levels along with the great ones, which would have been disastrous, for the reason I previously mentioned. Maybe Sackboy's Quest for Lucky Charms was just a mistake, and Mm learned their lesson. Oh well, the damage is already done, sadly. Can I say that this thread had any effect on the Mm picks? Probably not. Maybe it was the offhand chance that StevenI was planning to pick more mediocre levels, saw this thread, and changed his mind, or the chance that he was planning to pick more mediocre levels, saw all the rage on the level, and changed his mind. Or maybe StevenI picking Sackboy's Quest for Lucky Charms was a mistake on StevenI's part he secretly regretted, although this is probably untrue. I'm just going to cross my fingers and hope for no more mediocre levels in the Mm picks

  6. #126

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    StevenL has only been doing this for a short while and whilst i agree that Quest For Lucky Charms isn't a very inspired level (i played it for 30 seconds and returned to my pod) i'm sure over the coming months there will be many many deserved creators getting the break they need. perhaps StevenL saw potential with this creator and posted it for that reason, but it's far too early to moan just yet. give the man a break for goodness sake
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  7. #127
    Sack No. 10,000 Shadowriver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalawishis View Post
    Well, the new Mm picks have come, and while I haven't played them yet, I can say that via the reviews...StevenI did a pretty good job. I may suspect that there are some "very good but not excellent" levels in there, but I'm not as worried about that as I was earlier. The reason why I started this thread was because when Mm picked Sackboy's Quest For Lucky Charms, I feared that it might become a trend, with Mm picking mediocre levels along with the great ones, which would have been disastrous, for the reason I previously mentioned. Maybe Sackboy's Quest for Lucky Charms was just a mistake, and Mm learned their lesson. Oh well, the damage is already done, sadly. Can I say that this thread had any effect on the Mm picks? Probably not. Maybe it was the offhand chance that StevenI was planning to pick more mediocre levels, saw this thread, and changed his mind, or the chance that he was planning to pick more mediocre levels, saw all the rage on the level, and changed his mind. Or maybe StevenI picking Sackboy's Quest for Lucky Charms was a mistake on StevenI's part he secretly regretted, although this is probably untrue. I'm just going to cross my fingers and hope for no more mediocre levels in the Mm picks
    Conclusion: you panic because just one level over just at least 100

    Oh btw i yet to hear how this quality control suppose to be IMPLEMENTED ^^'

    Imo mm pick should be levels that MM likes and quality should not be only thing that matter, but idea and fun too and i think mm shouldn't be stress them selfs if somebody like there pick or not
    Last edited by Shadowriver; 03-23-2012 at 03:05 PM.
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  9. #128

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    Well, you don't really have to implement quality control. All StevenI has to do is simply hold quality in a higher regard when picking Mm picks. Maybe StevenI could think more based on the community, but I guess his job is hard enough as it is. You can see the effects of picking a level like Quest For Lucky Charms is. I think the only levels that are picked and don't generate hate are the really high quality ones. Whenever there are dips in quality, a lot of people get upset. Yeah, there are always people upset during nearly every level, but not nearly as much as with these types.While most of you on the forums don't get upset, you have to understand that the people on the forums and the people not on the forums are two different groups of people. They have wildly differing opinions. I remember on one or two of the Community Spotlights where the top rated review was a negative one. If I posted anything like that on here, you all would probably rip me apart, and yet, it was top rated review-for a time. I think that it might have been deleted. So you don't get upset, but a lot of the non-forum people do.

    I might as well establish some rules for posting on this thread. I don't want the thread to become stupid, angry, or off-topic again:
    1. Your posts should stay on topic.
    2. Your posts shouldn't be mean, insulting, snide, or sarcastic in a cruel way. The worst you can be is brutally honest, and that doesn't mean: "I'm going to be brutally honest, you're a jerk." I mean: "I'm going to be brutally honest, I really didn't like your post/level/signature."
    3. This isn't really a rule, but at least try to think before you just post, and try reading everything so your post doesn't operate on stuff disproved by someone else, or something already said, unless you want to re-clarify something.
    4. You should try being as calm and civil as possible when you post-even if you really want to punch somebody. You shouldn't get angry.
    5. Nobody should really post: "OMG, dis thred is stoopid," or "all of you babies grow up," or anything that diverts from the general topic, unless the thread really is becoming belligerent or off topic.
    6. If you break any of these rules...I'll get upset.

    Try to think of this part as part 2 of the thread. Part 1 was a disaster, but part 2 will try to be more smart, civil, and on topic. Anyway, some people may see some of the stuff in my first post as mean, so I'll edit that out.

  10. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalawishis View Post
    Whenever there are dips in quality, a lot of people get upset.
    Why is this a problem exactly?!? As you say some people are bound to get bent out of shape no matter what. Too many retro arcade games, not enough platformers, etc, etc. we've heard it all before.

    It's really only a problem for the person picked in that they may be an outlier on the community abuse bell curve. They do have a recourse fortunately, they can delete their pick and soon be able to temporarily disable comments. 7 days pass and a new batch of levels shows up to take the heat.

    I think you're putting WAY too much stock in a the hateful comments of a vocal/unappreciative/immature minority, look at the play/smile/frown ratio on "that level", not too shabby...clearly some people are enjoying this pick or are at least decent enough to move along quietly. *hint* *hint*

    * I sincerely apologize in advance if I violated any of your "rules" for posting...


  11. #130
    LBPCentral Creator Spotlight CrewUniverseUnderConstruction jwwphotos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalawishis View Post
    Well, you don't really have to implement quality control. All StevenI has to do is simply hold quality in a higher regard when picking Mm picks. Maybe StevenI could think more based on the community, but I guess his job is hard enough as it is. You can see the effects of picking a level like Quest For Lucky Charms is. I think the only levels that are picked and don't generate hate are the really high quality ones. Whenever there are dips in quality, a lot of people get upset. Yeah, there are always people upset during nearly every level, but not nearly as much as with these types.
    I still don't think it is a big deal.. I feel you are upset only because you hold Mm picks in such high and lofty regard. I mean it isn't like they are airline safety inspectors or anything. If one isn't up to "certain standards", it isn't like hundreds will die in a fiery plane crash. Be glad Mm has anything to do with us at all. They even hired a new person, StevenI, to help out.

    The only thing this pick to me has proved to me is that the general community still cannot seem to behave themselves. Posting nasty comments on a picked level for being upset at Mm is a bit like me spray painting nasty notes on someone's car because I'm not happy with the with the companies new models. Have a complaint.. make a thread here as you did, or send a note to Mm to voice your concerns.

    ...and as far as your "rules". The mods here do wonderful work in that regard and I don't think need any help or advice. Also for someone that has been a member here for almost a year, you should know by now we do like to have fun now and again.

    So lighten mmm' kay? You'll live longer.
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  12. #131
    PocketMoonCodcast. Valeview's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalawishis View Post
    Try to think of this part as part 2 of the thread. Part 1 was a disaster, but part 2 will try to be more smart, civil, and on topic. Anyway, some people may see some of the stuff in my first post as mean, so I'll edit that out.
    I like to think of "Parts" as being....Well, trying to be close to equal.
    128 posts later and you call it part two....does this mean there'll be....let's say,100....no....even 50 more posts on this thread?
    I don't think so.
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  13. #132
    LBPCentral Spotlight Crew Home Energy Reactor Mr_Fusion's Avatar
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    Meh. Just thought I'd drop by and mention. I absolutely HATED the movie Avatar.

    It was just plain terrible. But that's just my opinion.

    Keep up the great work StevenI! It's harder than people think.

    If anything what the game needs is an 'un-cool' tag that Mm peeps can use in a LBP.me type way to deactivate clearly junky levels from being counted and rated in the cool pages algorithm.

  14. #133

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    I just played that level every one is talking about...Lol poor guy i wonder if he knows hes even Mm picked?


    The levels ok its not really a Mm pick......But hay Mm seen something in his level to be Mm picked,Every one should have the chance to be Mm picke even tho your level may be A tad eh lol.

    I'd like to have that chance to have something to show for.But i fear what comes with that as all i see on his page is hate Why do so many of you go on his page and say such mean things?



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  15. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lbphart3 View Post
    I'd like to have that chance to have something to show for.But i fear what comes with that as all i see on his page is hate Why do so many of you go on his page and say such mean things?
    I wouldn't judge the fate of others' levels from the feedback on this person's level. Many people simply didn't like it, and were either jealous or felt it didn't deserve a pick. Take a look at some of the other Mm Picks. They're usually intricately crafted and look like a lot of care was put into it. With this level, it didn't LOOK exactly like what people expected, but the gameplay was unique. I don't think a pick should be judged by its looks.
    However, please don't say, "Why do so many of YOU go on his page and say such mean things?" The people here are nice, and I don't think they're the kind of people to do such a thing. Keep in mind that the forum community doesn't make up the whole community. In fact, I didn't see one mean comment on there from a forum member here.
    But back to that "hate" thing. One of your levels could be a huge hit someday. There are jealous people in the world, but that most likely will not outweigh your supporters.

  16. #135
    Can I haz bamboo? Ungreth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sackpapoi View Post
    I wouldn't judge the fate of others' levels from the feedback on this person's level. Many people simply didn't like it, and were either jealous or felt it didn't deserve a pick. Take a look at some of the other Mm Picks. They're usually intricately crafted and look like a lot of care was put into it. With this level, it didn't LOOK exactly like what people expected, but the gameplay was unique. I don't think a pick should be judged by its looks.
    However, please don't say, "Why do so many of YOU go on his page and say such mean things?" The people here are nice, and I don't think they're the kind of people to do such a thing. Keep in mind that the forum community doesn't make up the whole community. In fact, I didn't see one mean comment on there from a forum member here.
    But back to that "hate" thing. One of your levels could be a huge hit someday. There are jealous people in the world, but that most likely will not outweigh your supporters.
    The level wasn't judged purely on it's looks. A lot of people stated that the level was broken and prevented them from progressing even when they successfully knocked out all the leprechauns. I don't think it's fair to put all the negativity down to "jealousy" either. Look at the top rated reviews of Paper World 2, and the general consensus is that it's an amazing level and well deserving of it's pick. People seem generally inclined to call a gem a gem when they see one shine. Now look at the top rated reviews of Lucky Charms, and you'll find that the predominant view is that the level lacks the feel of an Mm pick, that the level is ugly and broken, and that there is general confusion about why it was picked. These comments are for the most part not rude and abusive, but generally trying to be tactful in pointing out that the level is not of the standard that people have come to expect of Mm picks. I don't think it helps either that the guy is displaying his "touching royalty" pin on his profile, as this has inevitably led to suspicion of some bias in Piece-o-Rutt's favour.

    Of course this does not mean, as Kalawishis suggested, that the overall quality of Mm picks is diminishing. It simply means that somebody at Mm (StevenI presumably) may arguably have made some error of judgement in picking this one, particular level that is quite clearly not up to the usual standard of other Mm picks. The other two recent Mm picks that I played, I personally considered these to be of exceptional quality, so clearly Steven does know a great level when he sees one.

    Whatever was going through his mind when he picked Lucky Charms, we shouldn't forget that StevenI has a dang tough job to do and he's never going to please all of the people all of the time. We should be thankful that we have somebody of his ilk at the helm of Mm picks now, since he is quite evidently well dedicated and very passionate about the LBP community, and of course he wouldn't have been given the job of community manager by Mm is that wasn't the case. I wonder whether we could help to make life a little easier for him with a "Suggestions to Steven" sticky thread here at LBP Central where forum members could post their suggestions about any mind-blowingly awesome levels they have found and feel that he should seriously consider for a pick.

    I guess it would be down to Steven himself to decide whether such a thread would be helpful to him or not though, and if he's following this discussion then perhaps he could tell us his stance on this.


  17. #136

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    I think you're putting WAY too much stock in a the hateful comments of a vocal/unappreciative/immature minority, look at the play/smile/frown ratio on "that level", not too shabby...clearly some people are enjoying this pick or are at least decent enough to move along quietly. *hint* *hint*

    * I sincerely apologize in advance if I violated any of your "rules" for posting...
    No, you did not break any rules. To be honest, the community that is not the forum people is a lot more immature than you might think. The like to dislike ratio on the Quest for Lucky Charms pick is about 5 to 1, which is the same as the average copied by Latin_Piayer_10 level. Yes, the whole situation is pretty sad. I think the ratio would be a lot better if the level wasn't Mm picked. The Mm pick caused a lot of the dislikes, and they weren't by most of us, they were by the community. That's why I think there should be quality control. Mm picking "pretty good" levels actually harms the level and creator. The whole mentality is bad, but I don't think there can be much we can do about it.

    I like to think of "Parts" as being....Well, trying to be close to equal.
    128 posts later and you call it part two....does this mean there'll be....let's say,100....no....even 50 more posts on this thread?
    I don't think so.
    Humans split time into two parts, B.C. and A.D., and B.C.'s a lot longer than A.D.

  18. #137

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    Okay, my post was totally ignored. I thought it was a good point. xD
    Anyways, Kala, MM picks isn't about super amazing unbelievably epic levels. It's a way of saying "Hey, this level was fun and deserves more plays." Just like LBPC Spotlights. Every level thats MM picked doesn't have to be some amazing break-through in the LBP community.

    My point is, MMP levels don't have to be amazing. They have to be good. Something people will enjoy. Sure, a shiny new FPS is enjoyable. But so is a simple platformer, or shooter.

    Also, I think you're being very rude to the creator of QFC. Because you're saying "I think your level is terrible and doesn't deserve to be MM picked. You're crushing all self-esteem they got from the MM pick. He may become the next SBG.
    Last edited by TradeMarkSG; 03-24-2012 at 02:10 AM.

  19. #138

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    Greeter i didin't say this hole community im just going by what iv seen on here and on his page i fill sorry for him.It was some what of a funn level think of it as a funn Mm pick rather then looks.Lol


    I all ways wonder what that would be like to have one good hit..I dont think i have any supporters yeat,Iv only got 1 level thats really going far,I mostly get people who want me to give them my stuff and i dont do that lol,.

    My gaol tho is to win a contest,It may tack for ever or mabe never but its a dream i'd love to a achieve.

    I think he needs more support it just really bothers me how some are talking about him.It just makes me think what would i do if i was in his shoes



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  20. #139
    Darude - Sandstorm DominationMags's Avatar
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    I think that people only downrate such levels as "Sackboy's Quest For The Lucky Charms" because they're jelaous that a mediocre level like Sackboy's Quest for the Lucky Charms got picked and theirs didn't, and this is ok because its simply the human nature.

    Stevenl simply picked this level because it was fun for him to play and it was a St. Patricks Day themed level that fit well for the time.

    However, it is not ok for someone to be jelaous of such a level and rant about how there level should be MM Picked and that level sucked, when ultimately its not up to you what is best. If you didn't like the level, you just give it a "boo" and tell the creator what he did wrong so he can fix it in future levels.

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  21. #140

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    Lots of the reviews mention that it "didn't deserve to be an Mm Pick". And a lot of cursing. People are also calling it "cheap" or "with little detail". So there's probably loads of reasons why people didn't like it, but Mm did. I liked it, just didn't love it. I really don't think it's fair for the creator though. 1) He has no control over whether he gets a pick or not. 2) People are being rude just because it wasn't the most amazing thing in the world, and that it was "cheap" (lots of complaining about seeing the floor, which I don't think is a really bad thing.) This may not be fair for other creators either. Like LBPhart was saying (it's Geet-R btw. But it is a confusing name to spell out to people ), what if other levels like this get picked and get bashed on too? That's not really giving a fair chance to creators with varying skill or tastes. Correct me if I'm wrong, and I've been corrected loads of times today, but I seriously think people are being rash and picky.

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