cant lift an invisible piston (help)

[Klam]

I have searched and been working on this for two hours and i cannot figure this out. I am trying to wench something up that is connected to an invisible piston at the end.

I have completely recreated the environment to rule out any weird items or overlooked dark matter. Here is an illustration, I appreciate any assistance.



the one of the left works fine, the one on the right wont lift off the ground. I also tried taking out the middle box and attaching the wench to piston directly, and it didn't work.

Thanks,
-Klam

[Jaeyden]

Sounds like the pistoon and wench are fighting each other. Try setting the piston strength to 0 or fiddle around with the sync and length of both. That's all I can think of to help...I assume there is a reason why you have a wench AND a piston connected to the object. One should get the job done..eh?

[Klam]

thanks, i did try that and it didnt work.

I have the piston on there for invis, so it will look like the object is flying. but an invis piston can't lift anything, so i am using the wench to lift the whole group of them.

(once you put the piston in there, the wench acts like its too heavy)

[moleynator]

Are you sure invisible pistons cant lift?

Ill just save the pic to view and edit this post if I figure it out.

[Klam]

thanks.

to make it invisible you would have to set it to 0 min. so, even if they can lift, i don't want the item to go that high. I have been using invisible pistons purely as hangers.

you can recreate this in about 5 seconds. one ceiling and two blocks.

honestly, it almost acts like a bug becuase the wench is saying "I can lift that block" if you go straight to the block, but then "I can't lift the block/piston combo"... it really shouldnt matter what i do below, the wench should still do its job :\

[moleynator]

Make the piston stop at a certain distance using key switches. Then it wont go all the way.

[Shiwayari]

Okay, this is one thing that has been annoying the hell out of me in my level and I've spent hours searching for what the problem was.

Long answer:
Let's start simple. If you attach a piston to dark matter and to some other free material, then the piston will move the free material, because the dark matter is unmovable.
Next. Attach a piston to a free piece of metal and a free piece of wood and let it drop to the ground. The piston will move the piece of wood, because the piece of metal is heavier.
Now attach a piston to dark matter and to a HUGE block of metal. The piston will move the enormous metal block regardless of it's weight. Strange, because it seemed to recognize the weight of the metal and wood blocks earlier, right?
Well, try this: Attach a piston to a block of dark matter and to a block of wood. Now connect a second piston to the wood and to a huge block of metal.
This time, the piston won't do anything. What the hell? Now does it recognize weight or not?
Well, the answer is that a piston will only recognize weight if it is attached to something that can move in some way. Be it a free object, something connected to a stiff piston etc. Finally, pistons are **** weak. Even with a strength of 10 they start failing at a piece of metal that is about 10 times the size of sackboy.

Short answer:
Your object is too heavy for the piston, invisible or not.

I hope MM will add a unlimited strength setting sooner or later. It's just annoying and I don't see a single positive aspect to pistons being so weak.

[Whalio Cappuccino]

In the level I have right now, I have it so a magical fairy light just flys away in the air, making it seem like it's floating. What I do is;


Dark matter ------- Wooden Block ======== Fairy Light

------- is the winch

===== is the piston.

It seems to work perfectly for me, though it's a bit different for you since you're using two blocks.

[Tellus-CR1]

How about disguising your heavy object? Make it out of something lite and then cover it's faces with the actual material you want to use? That might work.

[Elbee23•]

Maybe, just maybe, the lower object is glued to something like the floor and you have overlooked it.

But that's completely ignoring what seems to be going on with the problem.

[RAINFIRE]

you are over complecating this, what do you need to do, and i can give you a strait simple answer. i do not know what you are trying to accomplish in your level, just descirbe exactly what you want to do and we will help you, because just doing this makes it way more confusing for both of us and we can not offer the correct solution because there are different ones depending what you want to do (it kinda all strings itself back to knowing what you are using this for) so do us a favor and just tell us what you to do.

(sorry for the long comment but i felt it was too short after the first 2 segments and i was done with what i wanted to say ^.^ )

Cheers!

[staticvoid]

2 solutions

1st use a light material for piston/winch to move and sticker it up as metal/wood/stone

OR

2nd use muliple pistons/winches. The more you use the more weight they can support.

[Klam]

In the level I have right now, I have it so a magical fairy light just flys away in the air, making it seem like it's floating. What I do is;


Dark matter ------- Wooden Block ======== Fairy Light

------- is the winch

===== is the piston.

It seems to work perfectly for me, though it's a bit different for you since you're using two blocks.

thanks everyone for the responses

Whaaaaale,

my application is exactly like that, except my final object is much heavier than a fairy light. BUT the wench can lift it on its own, so i figured it should be able to lift the combo.

I think Shiwayari has experienced exactly what I am talking about so, i might try filling the object with floaty or something. I just disagree on principal since a winch has proven to me that it can lift this.

Elbee23,

I went to a new scene and recreated the scenario with two simple blocks. (not my final object) to rule that out.

RAINFIRE,

i over simplified this on purpose so ppl could recreate this issue if they so desired. but if its helpful to see the big picture to take another look what i am trying to accomplish is a semi-functional helicopter. i have made a glass run up out of sight and i have a glass sled that moves "forward" and "backwards". i also need to lift and lower the helicopter at will (switches). and it can't appear to be connected to anything.

so from my sled i did wench, wood block (up out of sight) and invisible piston to the chopper. without the piston the wench can lift the chopper and with the piston in the link it cannot.

if i can avoid introducing another material to the scene, i would really like to do that. what i might do is two invisi's up to a couple large (out of sight) blocks of floaty.

Thanks,
-Klam

[Shiwayari]

I think Shiwayari has experienced exactly what I am talking about so, i might try filling the object with floaty or something. I just disagree on principal since a winch has proven to me that it can lift this.

Well, as I said: If one of the objects that the winch (or piston, they both work the same) is attached to is not moveable in any way then you could hang a block of metal as large as the whole level onto it and it would work.
As soon as you attach a second winch/piston it will go "ohh I just noticed all the weight" and it'll give up and maybe even break down.
It will not only effect the second winch/piston attached, but also the first.
This is really annoying when you have something set up already and want to expand it and all of a sudden everything fails.

[RAINFIRE]

well i have your problem figured out, but i am still working on the solution. so just to help everyone out, here is what i know.

Problem:If you were to put a pistion in between 2 blocks and the piston and simple machine are running parallel to the ground, lets call the block on the left block 1, and the block on the right block 2. What do you think will happen? Well will block one push and pull block 2, without moving? No. Will block 2 push and pull block 1 without moving? No. What will they do? They will come to and apart from each other, like a sideways squisher, so really the game does not know to pull or push that, so i does both. See what i mean? The same concept is working on the wench, so the piston, does not know which direction to go, and can not go up because the game won't let it do that, its like saying, hey your pushing and pulling the same thing, that does not work. Example, 3 blocks going verticle, top one is darkmatter or something that will not move, same set up as you have, it is the winch connecting the bottom 2 blocks that is the problem, because, using the concept above, it is trying to do that squisher thing and is hence pulling that middle block, but that piston is also trying to do the same thing, (sorry for being long winded, just trying to get any questions, or mis-/non- understanings out of the way), so that block is also being pulled up. So far we have that middle block wanting to go up aaaand down, not gonna work. but the bottom block should be (i think, but not entirely sure) going up and down slightly, make sure it is not glued to the ground (we all forget the simplest things ^.^). The only thing i could think of at the moment includes syncing it...(far chance but hey give it a go).

Hope this helps us find a solution

Cheers!