Regarding: The Portrayal of Women in Video Games

[Kern•]

You rarely see Intersex people as main characters, You rarely see people who have any slight physical deformity either.

The slight physical deformity i can understand (although IMO it would add far more character to a person if they had a syndrome that didn't give them superpowers) But no Intersexed people?

Or Asexuals for that matter, Very few of them.

People who play video games are exposed to a world of Cisgendered Heterosexual vanity, and i find it appalling.

[DizzyZebra]

Interesting, I see quite a few asexuals in other media. In fact they usually wind up as my favourite characters. Being such a consuming part of human life I find it makes a more interesting character to have it left out. But thats my opinion. The love interest side of story lines doesn't often intrique me. It depends though, on how it is written. It does take quite a lot to get me shipping characters.

[SnipySev]

Each link in this post of mine will redirect you to a different Extra Credits episode. Extra Credits is an excellent show that you all should watch if you're interested in knowing more about how the videogames industry and medium works.

First, an episode where they analyze True Female Characters.

Secondly, an episode about the way Sex is portrayed in games.

Thirdly, an episode where they discuss Sexual Diversity in Games and the most relevant homosexual videogame character to date.

You rarely see Intersex people as main characters, You rarely see people who have any slight physical deformity either.

The slight physical deformity i can understand (although IMO it would add far more character to a person if they had a syndrome that didn't give them superpowers) But no Intersexed people?

Or Asexuals for that matter, Very few of them.

People who play video games are exposed to a world of Cisgendered Heterosexual vanity, and i find it appalling.

Sexual diversity is still taboo in this medium. As is sexuality itself, the only games I played where I think they portrayed sex in an adult manner are Uncharted 2, the Mass Effect games and Witcher 2 (in huge contrast to the first Witcher, where you won a collectible card for each woman you did it with).

[Kiminski]

Male characters are either disposable cannon fodder or walking cliches like Solid Snake. +1 if they're shirtless. I dunno, I'm not sure men are portrayed any better than women in games.

I think the big difference here is that male characters are still generally designed to appeal to the male playerbase. I think you'd be hard pushed to find a male character that was made purely with female players in mind.

[Rabid-Coot]

(in huge contrast to the first Witcher, where you won a collectible card for each woman you did it with).

I can just imagine that ending up like football stickers in the playground.

Got, got, need, need, got, need, got, got, swap, need, got...

[Ironface]

I'd imagine a game featuring physically abnormal protagonists with sexualities which differ from the usual norm wouldn't sell fantastically. It's not about portraying people (namely women) as salacious objects for ridicule, it's not like the games were designed by a depraved team of lecherous perverts who dissolve into maniacal laughter as thread by thread, they remove the clothes of all simulated women they see before them.

[coyote_blue•]

WARNING: SWEAR BOMBS IN LINKED VIDEOS

I tried finding the original Shortpacked comic that shows a female cartoonist redrawing Batman into a female sex fantasy, instead of a male power fantasy.

I want to let more obscure gender and sexual identities into the party, but crap. Only 2% of America is actually g.ay. If we're assuming it's a naturally occurring phenomenon, and not something in the water, it stands to reason that the "otherly sexed/gendered" community is already represented, but it's poorly represented. There are plenty of black folks on TV - if I wanted more mulattoes on TV just to please me, I'd settle for people just showing that black people are different from one another, moment to moment. We don't all like the same music, and we can be nerds as well as ballers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owf6D2vfZqM In which a young black man mourns Ned Stark, played by white guy Sean Bean

Ultimately, the way around this is by simply giving characters motivations, which many people here have said afore, and so I don't need to really pile on. Uncharted is a great example: a woman is writing the male power fantasy with believable character development. It's also a great bad example: in 3, the developers put a sinking ship level into the game because they could. Though Amy Lennig (sp?) does her kvetching offscreen, the making of videos make it clear she was like, "WTF sinking boat has to do with anything in the original story?" And they're all, "it'll be cool. Make it work. Game plots are porn plots: you need one, but it doesn't have to make sense."

Annnnnnd that sentence is what's wrong with everything ever. Video games are about letting players exercise fantasies. Sex fantasies wouldn't be allowed into gamestop, and true role-playing is difficult. So Power Fantasy it is. Once something is a power fantasy, the designers do all the dumb crap that leads to this problem: abandon the plot, create "open world" possibilities that let you act like a psychopath, give the player base hot chicks to look at, etc.

I don't have a problem with women wanting to be able to complete equally on the power fantasy playing field with men. But when a man is designing a male power fantasy, and a woman asks for parity, he's going to look at that parity through a lens. The best a woman is going to get from a sexist Japanese developer, on a day when he's feeling sensitive, is Bayonetta. Not bad, but she's not really helping expand the range.

I'd be very curious to see what a female power fantasy game would look like. Maybe this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDqTwSO1DDc In which Ripley protects a child in a completely not sexytimes manner

[Kern•]

I want to let more obscure gender and sexual identities into the party, but crap. Only 2% of America is actually g.ay. If we're assuming it's a naturally occurring phenomenon, and not something in the water, it stands to reason that the "otherly sexed/gendered" community is already represented, but it's poorly represented. There are plenty of black folks on TV - if I wanted more mulattoes on TV just to please me, I'd settle for people just showing that black people are different from one another, moment to moment. We don't all like the same music, and we can be nerds as well as ballers.

So because some characters are portrayed as Homosexual or Bisexual automatically means that the Asexual, Pansexual, Transgender, Androgynous and Chromosomally different communities are represented? Does it heck.

[rialrees•]

Each link in this post of mine will redirect you to a different Extra Credits episode. Extra Credits is an excellent show that you all should watch if you're interested in knowing more about how the videogames industry and medium works.

Love those videos! Never watched Extra Credits before... now I'm off to watch a whole marathon Thanks sev!

I don't have a problem with women wanting to be able to complete equally on the power fantasy playing field with men. But when a man is designing a male power fantasy, and a woman asks for parity, he's going to look at that parity through a lens. The best a woman is going to get from a sexist Japanese developer, on a day when he's feeling sensitive, is Bayonetta. Not bad, but she's not really helping expand the range.

True, there is still reportedly a massive divide in the industry itself - something like 5% of game programmers are female? And I think the total female workers in the industry was something like 20% for all job roles... (haven't checked most recent stats here, so this is a guess based on figures from a few years ago)

Hard to get balanced representation in the games when those working behind the scenes are still, for the most part, men.

I'm not saying that no man could write a decent female character, by the way. It's just more rare for the balance to be found.

So because some characters are portrayed as Homosexual or Bisexual automatically means that the Asexual, Pansexual, Transgender, Androgynous and Chromosomally different communities are represented? Does it heck.

I'd love to see more of human sexuality explored in video games, but explored in a good way. Not just chucking a male character on screen with a pink shirt and effeminate voice acting, and expect that your player will assume they're homosexual.

I assume that particular jump for the industry is going to be a long way off, sadly. There's games out there that are starting it off, I suppose. But I hope that we'll see this explored more

[SnipySev]

Love those videos! Never watched Extra Credits before... now I'm off to watch a whole marathon Thanks sev!

You're welcome

Are you going to watch all 4 seasons in one sitting? o_o

[coyote_blue•]

So because some characters are portrayed as Homosexual or Bisexual automatically means that the Asexual, Pansexual, Transgender, Androgynous and Chromosomally different communities are represented? Does it heck.

I'm saying no such thing. I'm suggesting that people in very small minorities - like me, as a mulatto - are sometimes going to have to settle for partial representations, or to make those representations ourselves. There are still places in America where people like me are called half-breed abominations. That isn't fair, but I can't expect mass market media to do my work for me, either.

Geena Davis is doing some interesting work along these lines to develop female role models.

As for deformed role models, I can only say: Long Live King Tyrion Lannister.

[Kiminski]

Why do we need sex in video games at all? It's totally destroyed the music and film industry. Why bother making good music, when a half naked moron singing a turd will make just as much profit?

It's not just about that though, a bigger concern is the fact that kids will be playing them. I certainly don't have enough faith in the average parent to ensure that they don't.

There's too much of it in the media already and it's not doing us any favours. Children should be bought up on wholesome values about love and family, not seedy exploitation.

I find the whole concept really sad tbh. There's a reason under-age teens are having babies.

[SnipySev]

Why do we need sex in video games at all? It's totally destroyed the music and film industry. Why bother making good music, when a half naked moron singing a turd will make just as much profit?

It's not just about that though, a bigger concern is the fact that kids will be playing them. I certainly don't have enough faith in the average parent to ensure that they don't.

There's too much of it in the media already and it's not doing us any favours. Children should be bought up on wholesome values about love and family, not seedy exploitation.

I find the whole concept really sad tbh. There's a reason under-age teens are having babies.

The problem isn't the fact that sex is present in the media. The problem is that it's used in a demeaning and exploitative manner.

Like they said in the Extra Credits episode whose link I posted, sexuality is a part of life. It defines and influences many of our interactions, relationships and behaviour. It can't be ignored and it surely shouldn't be repressed, for nothing good comes of sexual repression. It should be portrayed in a sensitive way, focusing more on the intimacy and love involved.

Teenage pregnancy isn't a modern issue. A century ago, teens had babies. Five centuries ago, teens had babies. A thousand, two thousand, ten thousand years ago teens had babies. A thousand years from now on, teens will still have babies. They don't do it because they see it on TV or in games, they do it because it's human nature.

Game companies aren't responsible for what games kids play, parents are. The little number on the box isn't just for decoration, it's the age restriction. Any parent can check their kids' games to see if what they are playing is age appropriate. The whole industry shouldn't censor itself just because some people aren't doing their duty as parents. Kids should be taught values, but they're going to learn it from the parents. You can't expect the entertainment media to educate your kids.


Besides, it's really laughable when:

*kid is playing a game where you shoot people in the face or decapitate them with swords and there's gore and blood all over the place*
Parents: eh, let him have his fun.

*kid is playing a game where there's naked people in it*
Parents: OH MY GOD WHAT IS THIS FILTH! QUICK, COVER HIS EYES!

According to most people, kids watching murder and violence is ok. But kids watching something natural like nudity or sex is the worst thing that can happen to them. Makes sense.

[Kiminski]

The problem isn't the fact that sex is present in the media. The problem is that it's used in a demeaning and exploitative manner...

According to most people, kids watching murder and violence is ok. But kids watching something natural like nudity or sex is the worst thing that can happen to them. Makes sense.

That's what I was getting at with love and family, I've nothing against children learning about sex. It's a wonderful thing, but there's a time and a place and I don't think a kid's first experience of it should be from a talentless slapper gyrating on MTV. Violence is just as bad, not to mention the smack talk that goes with it. Yes it is down to the parents, but sadly there's a whole lot of parents who simply don't give a ****.

I'm not saying teenage pregnancies are the result of video games either. Games are pretty tame in the grand scheme of things, but I do think media plays a big part in things becoming the norm. Yes there were teen pregnancies thousands of years ago, 100's of years ago even, but I'm sure back then a 14 year old was more than capable of bringing up a child and teaching it all it needed to survive. It was a much simpler life back then and more accepted. This isn't the case any more and we really should know better.

[Alex™]

I agree, women are portrayed terribly.

I mean c'mon, I was playing Clubs on NHL, and my teams 6"2 Dman got taken out by some little woman. Women don't even play in the NHL. Terrible portrayal. ***** got kronwall'd later though, so s'all good.