Project: Fluid 360° (Advanced 3D Movement) |Create TRUE 3D Platformers|

[Shadenmonk]

Project: Fluid 360°Movement
The time for true 3D platformers is almost upon us...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~>> Version 2.0.1: Here <<~

---

Need 2 more Beta Testers for future updates
Please private message me if interested.

---

What is it?

Fluid 360° is a project that I am creating which aims to to add a little more depth to the way sackpeeps can platform. With Fluid 360 you are able move between layers naturally instead of jumping between them, meaning you can Create true 3D platformers!

---

Features, lots of them! (Version 2.0.1)
This project contains various amount of other features rather than just the means to naturally walk between layers. It also contains additional platforming mechanics. (NO DLC Needed!)

Navigation

• Highly organized logic to make sure you can configure the settings to your liking.
• Notes are available throughout the microchip to help you change settings.
• Artistic microchips to give you something pretty to look at. ; )
• Nearly every feature of Fluid 360 can be toggled ON/OFF at your leisure giving you ultimate control.
• Color-Coated microchips to ensure you find your way to specific settings (and so you don't mess up logic that shouldn't be altered).

Components

• Standard Double Jump
• Easily leap out of water like an elegant graceful dolphin
• Grab onto ledges and hoist yourself up
• Push/Pull object naturally between layers
• Compatibility with all Power-Ups
• FLUIDITY

---

Coming soon
*Items not listed in order of importance*

- Fluid 360 with Toggle, Oddsock, and Swoop
- Advanced Climbing (Ladders, Monkey Bars, Ropes)
- Gradual velocity decrease when jumping between layers
- Permanent character rotation

---

---

Version 2.0.1 Preview

~>> Version 2.0.1: Here <<~

---

Questions and comments are greatly appreciated. Any features that I have missed that would be a good addition or need to change, please feel free to suggest some.

---

[poorjack]

I created a few chips like this for my current level, deciding what kind of movement is best. We still arent there I don't think. The biggest problem is that sackboy still locks to layers, no matter how smooth his transition is, so Super Mario 64 style 3D platforming is still not possible -smoothly- your's shows very smooth movement, but as you have no doubt notice, sackboy phases half way through thin layers behind him, and if you want push to be on, you better forget about it.

Sigh. I'm sorry for coming in here and farting up your thread. Maybe you will find some magic work around. But the layer locking is literally cancer on LBP3 for 3D platforming.

Your animation is very good though. 10/10

Maybe we can get someone from Sumo to read this and just put in a layer locking toggle. If it's even possible.

[SteveBigGuns]

There is a work around. Characters revert back to being locked to the layers when an in/out mover input signal is not active. Apply 2 more advanced movers. One with a battery of 1% and another with a battery of -1%. No more unwanted layer shifting.

[poorjack]

Once again, SteveBigGuns is the best of us.

Sorry if I am a morose person in general. I guess I just need to be more optimistic, and think, what would Steve do?

[Shadenmonk]

There is a work around. Characters revert back to being locked to the layers when an in/out mover input signal is not active. Apply 2 more advanced movers. One with a battery of 1% and another with a battery of -1%. No more unwanted layer shifting.

Awesome Steve, thanks mate. I'll add that momentarily.

Once again, SteveBigGuns is the best of us.

Sorry if I am a morose person in general. I guess I just need to be more optimistic, and think, what would Steve do?

It's fine mate. Although despite the layer locking this is a neat feature to have to add bit of diversity to gameplay provided someone wanted to.

[Sehven•]

The biggest problem is that sackboy still locks to layers, no matter how smooth his transition is, so Super Mario 64 style 3D platforming is still not possible-

Since all platforms are going to exist in layers, I would actually consider it a good thing to have sackboy lock into layers when not actively transitioning. In fact, I would probably add logic to force it if it wasn't there by default but I would try to keep it subtle and natural looking if possible. Maybe, instead, I'd add logic to make sackboy center into a layer when jumping into a platform's detection area to make it easier to "stick" a landing in 3d.

I haven't played with this kind of 3d movement yet (it wouldn't fit with my current project), but I would think that you could link a timer to an advanced in/out mover set to positional and wire sackboy's thumbstick into it. That way, it's constantly piping a value for where in the layer sackboy is supposed to be. You'd have to build logic to detect impediments; otherwise, the timer would continue to fill while sackboy is stuck on a wall and he would instantly zip to the location determined by the timer as soon as he got past the wall. Assuming this works (as I said, I haven't tested it on a sackboy) and that the blocking issue can be resolved, this technique could have some advantages. For example, you could teleport sackboy and have him arrive in the exact layer position he was in before teleporting (though that could probably also be accomplished by detecting sackboy's layer position prior to teleporting and then outputting that position to an in/out mover after teleportation).

[SEWO97]

Ledge shimmy...?

[XX_sonicfan_XX]

I thought this was going to be a project of a ball of water floating around, doing 360's.

I dunno, maybe have a mario style jump. One jump is normal, second jump is a bit higher, and third jump is a frontflip thats the highest.
Thats asking for a lot, wow...

[Shadenmonk]

The first version has now been release. go check it out!

Since all platforms are going to exist in layers, I would actually consider it a good thing to have sackboy lock into layers when not actively transitioning. In fact, I would probably add logic to force it if it wasn't there by default but I would try to keep it subtle and natural looking if possible. Maybe, instead, I'd add logic to make sackboy center into a layer when jumping into a platform's detection area to make it easier to "stick" a landing in 3d.

I haven't played with this kind of 3d movement yet (it wouldn't fit with my current project), but I would think that you could link a timer to an advanced in/out mover set to positional and wire sackboy's thumbstick into it. That way, it's constantly piping a value for where in the layer sackboy is supposed to be. You'd have to build logic to detect impediments; otherwise, the timer would continue to fill while sackboy is stuck on a wall and he would instantly zip to the location determined by the timer as soon as he got past the wall. Assuming this works (as I said, I haven't tested it on a sackboy) and that the blocking issue can be resolved, this technique could have some advantages. For example, you could teleport sackboy and have him arrive in the exact layer position he was in before teleporting (though that could probably also be accomplished by detecting sackboy's layer position prior to teleporting and then outputting that position to an in/out mover after teleportation).

Contrary to your thinking, it's actually more accurate without the layer locking I find. With layer locking you'll either end in the layer you want or a layer off. 50-50 chance.

Ledge shimmy...?

Ledge shimmy will be similar to vertical ledge grabbing...so YES!

I thought this was going to be a project of a ball of water floating around, doing 360's.

I dunno, maybe have a mario style jump. One jump is normal, second jump is a bit higher, and third jump is a frontflip thats the highest.
Thats asking for a lot, wow...

I could do that but with this project I want to get basic platforming mechanics included in the logic pack. Highly specialized logic of such will not be supported in this project unfortunately due to time.

[Sehven•]

Contrary to your thinking, it's actually more accurate without the layer locking I find. With layer locking you'll either end in the layer you want or a layer off. 50-50 chance.

Interesting. I haven't done any experiments with it yet, but I would have assumed that the 50/50 chance would only happen if you were right in the middle of the layer. I would have thought that if you were 75% in the front layer and 25% in the back, you'd lock into the front layer. Is that not correct? Because that's how I'd want it to be: I wouldn't want it so that you're almost completely off a ledge and still able to stand on it because you're 5% in the same layer it's in.

[Shadenmonk]

Interesting. I haven't done any experiments with it yet, but I would have assumed that the 50/50 chance would only happen if you were right in the middle of the layer. I would have thought that if you were 75% in the front layer and 25% in the back, you'd lock into the front layer. Is that not correct? Because that's how I'd want it to be: I wouldn't want it so that you're almost completely off a ledge and still able to stand on it because you're 5% in the same layer it's in.

That's more or less how it would be calculated.

You actually don't levitate when 5% off of the layer. Everything looks very natural. I know exactly what you mean and I wouldn't want that weird levitation either. I published the level though, try it first hand and tell me what you think.

[Sehven•]

I published the level though, try it first hand and tell me what you think.

Queued! I'm very interested in this technique. It doesn't fit with my first level project but I want to try my hand at 3d level design for my next project.

[Shadenmonk]

You won't be disappointed, my friend.

[Sehven•]

Very nice! I hope you don't mind a bit of critique?

Sackboy's speed didn't seem to match his animation: meaning it looked like his feet were moving faster than he was. Like he was running on ice or something. It was subtle but it was there.

I think some layer locking may need to be implemented. When I tried to jump in front of the 3D circle to get the prize bubble, I got hung up on the edge of the circle. Perfectly reasonable collision except that the angle the player is viewing from makes it difficult to tell that they're going to get stuck like that so some sort of a helpful nudge into the correct layer. Not necessarily a full layer lock, but, in normal gameplay, when sackboy comes across an obstacle like that, he just sort of automatically layer shifts to get around it. Some sort of detection and in/out mover logic to duplicate that functionality in 3d would be helpful and would make gameplay feel much nicer.

I didn't like that up/down on the left stick went from in/out to up/down as soon as I hit the water. Wouldn't it be possible to keep the left stick mapped to in/out and map the right stick to up/down in the water so that things stay consistent?

Not so much a criticism as a wish: rig up a method so that sackboy can grab and push/pull objects from in front or behind, not just the sides. You'll have to fake it of course since sackboy can't really grab front/back. Something with a rotation tweaker and some animation effects. I haven't played with animation tweaks much yet so I don't know how possible this is.

[Devious_Oatmeal]

Very nice! I hope you don't mind a bit of critique?

Sackboy's speed didn't seem to match his animation: meaning it looked like his feet were moving faster than he was. Like he was running on ice or something. It was subtle but it was there.

I think some layer locking may need to be implemented. When I tried to jump in front of the 3D circle to get the prize bubble, I got hung up on the edge of the circle. Perfectly reasonable collision except that the angle the player is viewing from makes it difficult to tell that they're going to get stuck like that so some sort of a helpful nudge into the correct layer. Not necessarily a full layer lock, but, in normal gameplay, when sackboy comes across an obstacle like that, he just sort of automatically layer shifts to get around it. Some sort of detection and in/out mover logic to duplicate that functionality in 3d would be helpful and would make gameplay feel much nicer.

I didn't like that up/down on the left stick went from in/out to up/down as soon as I hit the water. Wouldn't it be possible to keep the left stick mapped to in/out and map the right stick to up/down in the water so that things stay consistent?

Not so much a criticism as a wish: rig up a method so that sackboy can grab and push/pull objects from in front or behind, not just the sides. You'll have to fake it of course since sackboy can't really grab front/back. Something with a rotation tweaker and some animation effects. I haven't played with animation tweaks much yet so I don't know how possible this is.

Noticed this stuff as well. Except that the 3D hitting was more of bad placement of the 3D sign.

I think a go-around hit mechanic would be a bit more difficult to make than one would think. From the sides, it'd be simpler, but going back and forth may be a bit harder. I don't think it's necessary and I'd say the feel of the 2D style for LBP having that collision go-around may be why it feels like it might feel better.

The swimming was definitely something I did not like. The method of pressing ⬛ to go down, and X to go up tends to work the best. at least from my experience when playing games with a swimming mechanic.

When I grabbed the ledge, I had to let go and re-grab it really quickly in order for the character to actually be able to jump back up.

Sackboy is also really slow.

[Sehven•]

When I grabbed the ledge, I had to let go and re-grab it really quickly in order for the character to actually be able to jump back up.

Yes, I'd forgotten to mention that along with the fact that you have to jump and let go at the same time. It'd be nice if that was all programmed into one move: you're hanging from a ledge and you press X and sackboy deftly moves up without the player needing to let go of R1. It's a little trickier but you can wire a sequencer into the controllinator to force certain movements and you can temporarily disable the link between the player's R1 button and the one controlling the bot to force them to let go at the right time.

[Shadenmonk]

Very nice! I hope you don't mind a bit of critique?

Sackboy's speed didn't seem to match his animation: meaning it looked like his feet were moving faster than he was. Like he was running on ice or something. It was subtle but it was there.

I've just changed this as a few individuals have mentioned it as well. Sackboys speed has increase a bit to match the animation.

I think some layer locking may need to be implemented. When I tried to jump in front of the 3D circle to get the prize bubble, I got hung up on the edge of the circle. Perfectly reasonable collision except that the angle the player is viewing from makes it difficult to tell that they're going to get stuck like that so some sort of a helpful nudge into the correct layer. Not necessarily a full layer lock, but, in normal gameplay, when sackboy comes across an obstacle like that, he just sort of automatically layer shifts to get around it. Some sort of detection and in/out mover logic to duplicate that functionality in 3d would be helpful and would make gameplay feel much nicer.

That would be very difficult to implement as It would be a very situational logic that would require external logic to work properly. Also the factor of whether to push sackboy front/back when triggered. If you have a simple idea of how to do it I would love to hear it.

I didn't like that up/down on the left stick went from in/out to up/down as soon as I hit the water. Wouldn't it be possible to keep the left stick mapped to in/out and map the right stick to up/down in the water so that things stay consistent?

Pro:Yes that is possible. That probably would be less of a transition between the land and water. I'll test it out.

Con:It's just felt very awkward for me when I configured it that way the first time. Having to deal with two sticks for swimming on one layer seemed a bit tedious if one wanted to make a underwater section in a level that was focused on dodging obstacles on one to a few layers.

Not so much a criticism as a wish: rig up a method so that sackboy can grab and push/pull objects from in front or behind, not just the sides. You'll have to fake it of course since sackboy can't really grab front/back. Something with a rotation tweaker and some animation effects. I haven't played with animation tweaks much yet so I don't know how possible this is.

hmmm...that would totally be possible. The only tricky part would be allowing only one object to be pulled/push when multiple grabbable object are around sackboy. The only problems that I have found with the animations so far is when you try to override sackboys grab/climbing animation with something else.

Yes, I'd forgotten to mention that along with the fact that you have to jump and let go at the same time. It'd be nice if that was all programmed into one move: you're hanging from a ledge and you press X and sackboy deftly moves up without the player needing to let go of R1. It's a little trickier but you can wire a sequencer into the controllinator to force certain movements and you can temporarily disable the link between the player's R1 button and the one controlling the bot to force them to let go at the right time.

Noted. The ledge grab as of right now is just a state sensor to reset double jump after release. I'll change the grab spots to [not grabbable] when grab spot = [Grabbed + X is pressed]

Thanks for the critique mate! Really wanted to mold this into something suitable for everyone.

[Sehven•]

That would be very difficult to implement as It would be a very situational logic that would require external logic to work properly. Also the factor of whether to push sackboy front/back when triggered. If you have a simple idea of how to do it I would love to hear it.

Simplest way that comes to mind would be a zone sensor apparatus around sackboy. Zones on left/right with impact sensors. Impact detected in left zone AND thumbstick left detected AND left speed 0 = temporarily disable the in/out mover and let LBP's built in layer transitioning take over. If it works, it would be the most natural because you're taking advantage of the game's default behavior. If that doesn't work, I'm sure something could but, as you say, it may be difficult.

Con:It's just felt very awkward for me when I configured it that way the first time. Having to deal with two sticks for swimming on one layer seemed a bit tedious if one wanted to make a underwater section in a level that was focused on dodging obstacles on one to a few layers.

Yeah, that does sound awkward. What about oatmeal's suggestion of X/O for up/down in water. Lots of 3d platformers use that mechanic so it wouldn't feel terribly awkward.

Thanks for the critique mate! Really wanted to mold this into something suitable for everyone.

That would be ideal. With one method that works nearly flawlessly and the community generally agrees upon, it would make picking up and playing any 3d level easier since they'd all feel consistent with one another. Here's hoping your method is perfected and adopted by the community.

[edit] Ooh, I just had an idea! Climable material in 3 dimensions. Use a wall jump tweaker with zero speed and sackboy will just stick to the side of it and can move up/down as if he's climbing. He'll just slide instead of climb but maybe that can be fixed with an animation tweak? It would also require temporarily disabling the in/out mover. Maybe make the wall-slide out of several small pieces and set the wall slide tweaker to be activated only if a player holding R1 is touching it. If those conditions are met, it sends a signal back to the player bot deactivating the Lstick up/down from affecting the in/out mover so they can climb up/down.

[Shadenmonk]

The swimming was definitely something I did not like. The method of pressing ⬛ to go down, and X to go up tends to work the best. at least from my experience when playing games with a swimming mechanic.

Interesting. Kingdom Hearts has a system like that that tends to work pretty well. I'll test that. that would also do well since hold X at the waters surface gives you a good boost to get back onto land.

When I grabbed the ledge, I had to let go and re-grab it really quickly in order for the character to actually be able to jump back up.

Noted, easy fix.

Sackboy is also really slow.

Fixed.

Thanks for the critique.


- - - - - - - - - -

Simplest way that comes to mind would be a zone sensor apparatus around sackboy. Zones on left/right with impact sensors. Impact detected in left zone AND thumbstick left detected AND left speed 0 = temporarily disable the in/out mover and let LBP's built in layer transitioning take over. If it works, it would be the most natural because you're taking advantage of the game's default behavior. If that doesn't work, I'm sure something could but, as you say, it may be difficult.

Sounds like it would work. But not that simple.
You'll have the situation of deciding when the logic should be activated. if you're impacting a wall or an object that shouldn't layer-lock you, you'll need external logic. I'd say it'd be possible with management. But the aim of this project is to keep external management to a strict minimum, or at least until I mold the foundation to a perfected state.

Yeah, that does sound awkward. What about oatmeal's suggestion of X/O for up/down in water. Lots of 3d platformers use that mechanic so it wouldn't feel terribly awkward.

Yeah, i'll have to take oatmeal's suggestion into account.

That would be ideal. With one method that works nearly flawlessly and the community generally agrees upon, it would make picking up and playing any 3d level easier since they'd all feel consistent with one another. Here's hoping your method is perfected and adopted by the community.

Thanks for the support, Sehven, appreciate it.

[LJRobey]

Really needed this! Definitely queuing and will give feedback once tested!